Am I being unreasonable? Or is this woman literally the most pig-headed person in the world?

[user1498466918]

Bit of a long one here – sorry!

I met my fiancee when he was separated from his then-wife, with whom he has two kids. When we met they'd been living apart for a few months and were planning a divorce.

When we got together he told me about his situation, and explained that although he doesn't get on well with her, she's agreed to let him see the kids whenever he wants (she insisted on full custody when they split - saying that he could see them whenever he likes. He didn't have enough money to fight this and she's been as good as her word). He is a doting father.

After we'd been dating for a few months (while the divorce was being finalised) she agreed to let me meet their kids (now 7 and 5). She then abruptly changed her mind the day I was due to meet them. I was a bit frustrated by the whole situation (was weird never having met them and being in love with their father/hearing so much about them from him) but wanted to see things from her point of view and had only been with him for a few months anyway.

I assumed that she'd mellow with time. WRONG! Fast forward FOUR years (we've been living together for the last three).

Due to her demanding job, she lives abroad with the kids, and he visits them several times a year and Skypes them a few times a week. This is hardly ideal, but her work requires it and it works for now.

Things are always very awkward between them (the moment the kids go to bed they stop talking and ignore each other) but the kids seem to be happy and absolutely adore their dad.

She, however, has remained bitter to the last, refusing to let me meet them as this was just him being "selfish" and "not putting the kids first." We recently got engaged, and he messaged her to give her the news before it was made public so she'd have time to digest. From what I can see, he has really tried at every point to be amicable for the sake of the children, but she is having none of it.

Anyway, you'd think that now we were getting married I could meet the kids, but ... nope. Apparently she still "doesn't see how they could possibly benefit" from meeting me. He's tried explaining that I am a huge part of his life, am here to stay and that the kids could only benefit from getting to know me as I'LL BE AROUND FOR EVER, but she is having none of it. He is understandably really upset about this, but doesn't know what can be done apart from seek legal action and get joint custody rights (he's worried that if he goes against her wishes she can stop him from seeing the kids).

So what do I do? I've really REALLY tried seeing things from her point of view over the last few years, but this feels pretty absurd now. I mean, how can their kids not benefit from knowing such a large part of their fathers' life? And how will they feel when they find out that their mother has refused to allow them to meet their stepmother? Won't they be upset to not be involved in the wedding? Wouldn't it have been better to grow up knowing me rather than suddenly being told about me xxx years down the line?

What can I do? Am I being mad here? Is this woman as mad/bitter as I think, or am I being unreasonable?

Tips/ideas appreciated.

Thanks :)

I think it will get stranger and stranger if the children never meet their father's partner. They are marrying aren't they?

I do think that is weird and controlling. And in the future when the children are a bit older I think they will find it strange and confusing.

It puts up a barrier with their father. But probably that's what their mother wants.

It is a strange situation but it is one that the OP's partner has allowed and continues to allow. It is all very well saying what should happen, but OP has to work with the reality. A parent who has let his children live in another country without putting up a fight isn't going to have enough about him to fight for them to meet his girlfriend.

spiney, I assume people are responding to the OP's original question, which was whether her DP's ex was 'literally the most pig-headed person in the world.' It may of course be that she is. But from the available evidence the OP has posted, you could also view her as someone who was dumped with a one year old and a three year old while her husband, even while the divorce was going through, was already seeing someone else, and wanting to introduce his children to the new person, even though they'd only been seeing one another a few months. These days it's possible that from the ex's pov, he's Disney Dad a few times a year, to children who don't remember him living with them.

Of course we don't know this. I'm just very skeptical of the reality behind the 'my psycho ex who wouldn't let me see the children' thing that's so often trotted out.

This is insane! Surely now you're getting married the kids will need involvement with you both apart from the fact I'm sure they'd like to go to the wedding and I'm sure your HTB would want his kids there too!?

Looking forward, if you have kids then they'll need contact with their half siblings

Perhaps yo need to seek legal advice

But Peckwater - that's as may be.... though actually not what the OP said but....what is best for the kids?

What is best for the kids is not some sort of revenge on their dad but an active and positive relationship with him. And I don't think that can ever really happen when they can't meet his partner. Presumably the ban would then be extended to any possible half siblings.

Spiney I wholeheartedly agree that an active and positive relationship with both parents is generally good for DC. It probably would be in this case too. But the thing preventing that isn't the Dc not being allowed to meet their father's fiancée. It's that, for four years, the DC have lived in a different country to their father and seen him minimally, and he's never done anything about it.

mumsnet is bizarre sometimes.

Some responses are so so harsh on the OP and her fiance.

I can understand exactly why he has been passive in this- it is very easy to seize onto hope and to agree to something when you are scared. It sounds like the ex wife is quite the formidable operator, with a successful career and a man who supported that career by staying at home with the kids. He has chosen not to rock the boat because up until relatively recently he has acquiesced to her request that they don't meet the OP. however it is now frankly ridiculous, paranoid and unhinged for her to refuse the OP to meet them (unless we are missing a huge backstory which justifies such behaviour.)

OP, I would recommend that he gets some proper legal advice in both the jurisdiction of your husband's habitual residence and that of the children's. At the moment she is laying down the law because she can, and has been getting away with it virtually unchallenged. It's time for your finance to bare his teeth instead of sucking his gums.

Agree DP seems to have been really passive/ wet/ foolish ( take your pick ) in standing by whilst this situation has evolved.

As his children now live abroad I have no idea what he could do to change that. Not a lot I should imagine.

But he does continue to visit them there and Skypes regularly. Hardly ideal but that is what they have. Banning the children from meeting his wife serves no positive outcome for those children. It just adds to barriers. It is not in their interests.

Those children are not going to stay little and they will realise it's very strange/sad/dysfunctional that they were banned from meeting their fathers wife.

I haven't read the full thread but this woman is clearly acting in her own interests!

She is calling the shots and will continue to do so until there is a court order in place stating what is in the best interests of the children.

However, court orders made in one country are not always enforceable in another country.

The mistake was allowing her to remove them from this country.

Do not be too upset - step children can be a nightmare!

She is not a reasonable person and any attempts to reason with her will be met with ridiculousness and irrationality!!

She has only been true to her word because he has done all the running and never went against her wishes.

How will your husband feel about not having his children at his wedding? Because she is not going to have them there!!!!!

Perhaps you will have to extend the invite to her too!

Op has said she doesn't want children.

can understand exactly why he has been passive in this- it is very easy to seize onto hope and to agree to something when you are scared. It sounds like the ex wife is quite the formidable operator, with a successful career and a man who supported that career by staying at home with the kids

Funny though how many women are in that situation and yet dont give up custody without a full on fight. Especially if the big bad man was going to leave the country. There are British women living abroad who won't come home because their ex's are abusive and they can't take their child out of the country and won't leave them. This guy just had to say 'no'.

This scary 'career woman'

I am shocked by some of the responses on here. OP is marrying her fiancé and both want her to be fully part of his life- kids included. What is wrong with that? Everyone deserves to move on with their life (I wonder if she has?) what makes it her right to dictate what he does and who he sees whilst he has the kids? If he is a good dad and looks after his children properly then he can clearly make a fair decision to introduce. I appreciate that some women aren't lucky enough to have a dotting father in an ex and have to limit access however I can't help feel that men get a bad deal when it comes to split ups and it really gets on my tits. OP I would go down the court route personally - that way you have definite structure and access xxx

It's actually irrelevant whether the DP put up a fight or was spineless or whatever.

It's about the children.

I don't think it's irrelevant, I think it's very important that he has allowed this to go on for four years, it's up to him to go to court, not his fiancée, he's not done that, I wonder why that is....

It is normal that the kids should know their fathers wife however wet/passive/foolish/spineless he is.

.

Did OP say say she was going to court for him?

I don't think it's irrelevant, I think it's very important that he has allowed this to go on for four years, it's up to him to go to court, not his fiancée, he's not done that, I wonder why that is....

That's the thing, the OP's DP seems to be accepting of the status quo, just as he accepted his ex having full residency of the children and her leaving the country with them (if that is in fact what happened) -- it's the OP who now isn't happy with it, and it seems as if that's more to do with having her relationship with her DP acknowledged by his ex by meeting his children.

She's not his wife spiney, they've only just got engaged.

It really is up to him though to go down the legal route; he seems to have allowed this situation to carry on and done nothing, I really don't see how the kids at age 5 and 7 are missing out on meeting the OP, albeit I am sure she is a very nice lady, her existence has no impact on them right now.

Perhaps as they grow and this relationship becomes concrete through marriage the ex may start to realise it's permanent and allow them to go to him and stay.

Swedish, PLEASE. you are putting words in my mouth.

I speak as a 'scary career woman' (sic) who is a formidable operator, whose DH took my parental leave so that I didn't have too much time out of my business. I am very much aware that we are only getting the OP's side here, but the picture she paints of this woman is like me looking in a mirror and confronting the very worst of myself.

I am a railroader by nature and have to take a step back every now and again to ensure I haven't flattened anybody in my way. The OP's fiancé has followed the path of least resistance and it hasn't worked out- he has been shafted by putting his trust in informal agreement over proper, court sanctioned, orders. Time to stop letting her have her own way, if it isn't already too late for that.

Whoah. Been away for a bit and just came back to see this - never nice to see the man you love being called "spineless" and being advised to consider leaving him!
Appreciate everyone has their own opinion, but particular thanks go to those who posted thoughtful, sympathetic responses - this isn't exactly the easiest time so your kindness is much appreciated.
Wanted to provide a bit more background - when I initially wrote this wanted to keep the post from being even longer, so didn't explain some stuff that may have made it easier to understand and dispelled some assumptions.
When I met my fiancée we were both living abroad. His ex's job requires her to move every couple of years and they had split up while at this last posting. He obviously decided to stay there, and met me several months after they moved there. When her posting came to an end we had to make a decision - follow her and the kids (and move every two years for the next 20) or return to the U.K. together. We decided to return to the U.K. Whatever you may think, this was an agonizing decision that wasn't taken lightly - but neither of us have career prospects there and we decided to focus on building a stable secure home here. We have also discussed moving there to make things easier - but as she's leaving for another place soon this isn't a solution either.
As for the (very creative) conspiracy theories I've seen: yes, he is definitely divorced (saw the decree absolute arrive myself! Have also discussed the situation with his parents/mutual friends many times. So there it is- no easy answers - just a feeling that things, somehow, have to be better for all involved.
And yes, the original posting title may not have been helpful! Just been told she's (once again) refused to countenance any sort of meeting, so was frustrated.

OP, he should be looking after his children at his house. Why isn't he?

If I were him I'd be looking at making a formal arrangement through the court for access. is it her way or no way?

Sorry to hear this OP. My parents divorced when I was very young and now both have happily remarried. I would have been really hurt if my mum had stopped me meeting my fathers new partner before they married and vice versa. But then again, if their mum thinks they are too young to meet you/start a relationship with you then I suppose that's her right as their mother. Plus the living abroad wouldn't allow you to easily form a relationship with them and maybe the time spent with their dad when he is there is what is best when they are still fairly young, I remember wanting my dad's full attention when I went to visit and not wanting any distractions. Selfish yes but I was very young! It will be tough for you but when children are in the picture they come first. I hope it all works out for you though and congrats on your engagement

So he effectively left his kids and moved countries to live with you, I'm not criticising but perhaps that's got something to do with her feelings also.

I can only suggest he goes down the court route.

Adora10: yes, you could look at it that way, but the alternative was to follow her around the world every two years. Not an easy situation. And despite loving him very much, would have understood completely if he wanted to try and make it work with her - but their marriage was irreparably damaged before we even met, so that wasn't an option. Guess we could consider all moving to the same county, but as she won't consider changing careers at the moment still leaves the "moving every two years" problem. Obviously the reason he initially didn't sue for joint custody is the logistics of doing this - we thought would be easier for everyone not to fight over this in the assumption that she would be reasonable. Worth nothing that she has never prevented him from speaking to/seeing the children - just me!

Would he have left the kids and moved countries if he hadn't met you, probably not?

You got with him just a few months after their marriage ended; I think she possibly blames you for it all, irrational I know but just trying to think what it could be.

Surely once you are married to this man she will start to relent, if not, it's court I'm afraid.