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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being unreasonable? Or is this woman literally the most pig-headed person in the world?

175 replies

user1498466918 · 26/06/2017 10:25

Bit of a long one here – sorry!

I met my fiancee when he was separated from his then-wife, with whom he has two kids. When we met they'd been living apart for a few months and were planning a divorce.

When we got together he told me about his situation, and explained that although he doesn't get on well with her, she's agreed to let him see the kids whenever he wants (she insisted on full custody when they split - saying that he could see them whenever he likes. He didn't have enough money to fight this and she's been as good as her word). He is a doting father.

After we'd been dating for a few months (while the divorce was being finalised) she agreed to let me meet their kids (now 7 and 5). She then abruptly changed her mind the day I was due to meet them. I was a bit frustrated by the whole situation (was weird never having met them and being in love with their father/hearing so much about them from him) but wanted to see things from her point of view and had only been with him for a few months anyway.

I assumed that she'd mellow with time. WRONG! Fast forward FOUR years (we've been living together for the last three).

Due to her demanding job, she lives abroad with the kids, and he visits them several times a year and Skypes them a few times a week. This is hardly ideal, but her work requires it and it works for now.

Things are always very awkward between them (the moment the kids go to bed they stop talking and ignore each other) but the kids seem to be happy and absolutely adore their dad.

She, however, has remained bitter to the last, refusing to let me meet them as this was just him being "selfish" and "not putting the kids first." We recently got engaged, and he messaged her to give her the news before it was made public so she'd have time to digest. From what I can see, he has really tried at every point to be amicable for the sake of the children, but she is having none of it.

Anyway, you'd think that now we were getting married I could meet the kids, but ... nope. Apparently she still "doesn't see how they could possibly benefit" from meeting me. He's tried explaining that I am a huge part of his life, am here to stay and that the kids could only benefit from getting to know me as I'LL BE AROUND FOR EVER, but she is having none of it. He is understandably really upset about this, but doesn't know what can be done apart from seek legal action and get joint custody rights (he's worried that if he goes against her wishes she can stop him from seeing the kids).

So what do I do? I've really REALLY tried seeing things from her point of view over the last few years, but this feels pretty absurd now. I mean, how can their kids not benefit from knowing such a large part of their fathers' life? And how will they feel when they find out that their mother has refused to allow them to meet their stepmother? Won't they be upset to not be involved in the wedding? Wouldn't it have been better to grow up knowing me rather than suddenly being told about me xxx years down the line?

What can I do? Am I being mad here? Is this woman as mad/bitter as I think, or am I being unreasonable?

Tips/ideas appreciated.

Thanks :)

OP posts:
SwedishToast · 26/06/2017 11:43

The thing is that if she lives abroad he won't get custody to take them away. So he does need to tread carefully. I thought it was odd they hadn't met you but as they live abroad it's. It actually necessary. Sorry! Are you planning on having children together?

DoesAnyoneReadTheseThings · 26/06/2017 11:43

Loopy - my username refers to usernames not posts... I went through the posts and I couldn't see where it says how long he was with his wife in total just how long before she became pregnant. Would you like to slap on the handcuffs now or....

SwedishToast · 26/06/2017 11:44

*it's not actually necessary

DoesAnyoneReadTheseThings · 26/06/2017 11:46

Is it possible for you to fly over with him next time and stay in a hotel near by but not too near by and meet her for coffee or something? Maybe if she meets you she will be happier about the kids going abroad for your wedding? I'm not saying she's right but if they've never been abroad without her maybe she's a bit anxious/worried about it?

Lottie991 · 26/06/2017 11:47

They are HIS children too!
Of course he has a right to say who they meet!
I wonder what people would be saying if a man refused a woman's long term partner meeting his children?
Its ludicrous!

SwedishToast · 26/06/2017 11:48

AndNowItIsSeven: True, but there's no chance in hell she'd let them get on a plane without her. She won't even let his parents see them without her (she doesn't like them, for no particular reason).*

So you think. Parent in law relationships can change quite a bit after children.

Loopyloppy · 26/06/2017 11:48

But you assumed she was lying or exaggerating? Why people feel the need to nit pick ops or make them look untruth when it's just derailing is Angry.

(Realise I'm totally derailing Grin)

scottishdiem · 26/06/2017 11:49

"I don't think it's helpful to characterize her as mad or bitter."

Think of the names of men used on here when they walk out on kids or be obstructive as possible when it comes to separation and child custody.

Mad and totally bitter are mild compared to that. She has no right to deny a father access to his kids and no right to restrict childrens access to their father and the life he is living.

SwedishToast · 26/06/2017 11:50

lootie91 why would anyone feel differently if it was a man? You're assuming because the usual situation is that the mother would have custody so it would be unfair for her to never dateZ

In the exact same scenerio as above but sexes reversed I'd still feel the same.

user1498466918 · 26/06/2017 11:51

LoopyLoppy: Thanks! I think so too, but as I don't have kids wanted more qualified opinions.

RunRabbitRunRabbit: Am definitely not broody - respect everyone's decision to have/not have kids, but it's not for me. I am, however, committed to supporting my fiancee - and his kids - anyway I can.

I don't necessarily think they need me around - as you say they have loving parents - but think it's a bit weird for their dad to marry someone they have never met and are not allowed to meet. I love my partner deeply and it saddens me that he feels he can't share his life fully with them.

Bit harsh saying he "bailed right at the hardest time" when I know he did everything he could to keep the relationship together - ultimately they decided after trying to make it work (almost since the start - things went wrong pretty quickly) that would be better for the kids to be apart.

And by the way, he was a stay at home dad for the first couple of years while she was out at work!

OP posts:
Somerville · 26/06/2017 11:53

The problem (them not meeting you) is symptomatic of bigger issues. Your fiancé has let his exW dictate all the terms, right down to his DC leaving the country and not even coming to visit him. The 'too broke to fight it in court' excuse is bollocks - so many NRP's say it, but it doesn't have to be expensive and even if it were, surely pursuing a prosper relationship with DC should be a parent's top priority?

He daren't rock the boat now because having let this become the status quo over the past four years he might not have a leg to stand on in court - plus his DC aren't within British jurisdiction anyway.

I suppose all you can do is encourage him to take small steps towards looking after his DC independently. But he's not been prepared to to this point, so I'd wonder if he cared enough about changing this situation to be bothered, frankly.

I think you should delay the wedding, for sure. And put some deep thoight into whether this man is always going to make excuses for why it's not his fault that his children are a completely separate part of his life to you.

Lottie991 · 26/06/2017 11:54

Yes the situation is usually that way but I dont see how who ever has custody makes a difference, He is their father he has equal rights Swedish.
If my children's father told me I couldn't have my own children at my own wedding I would find it ludicrous, I also find it a ludicrous demand the other way round.
He has rights, And in this case he should exercise them, The ex sounds like a complete control freak.

PunjanaTea · 26/06/2017 11:56

I think this is highly odd and that a parent has every right to introduce their future spouse to the children. Your DP really needs to stop letting her walk all over him though.

You'll get no sympathy here though OP, there are way too many posters who see mothers as in the right regardless no matter how objectively unreasonable their behaviour is.

SwedishToast · 26/06/2017 11:56

And by the way, he was a stay at home dad for the first couple of years while she was out at work!

They were only together for a couple years though. he'd have had no difficulty getting custody.

SwedishToast · 26/06/2017 11:58

He doesn't have rights though Lottie. His children live in another country and he hasn't got permission to take them away. No rights.

As a foreigner in the UK I have no right to take my kids out of this country without their dad's permission

user1486956786 · 26/06/2017 11:58

You are great for keeping your patience and still trying to meet them. My partner was slow with introductions to keep ex happy and I started to lose my interest as I was fed up of the rejection.

They would absolutely benefit from meeting you and being a part of yours and their dads life. Hang in there, when they are older they can make up their own minds.

Lottie991 · 26/06/2017 11:58

You are absolutely right PunjanaTea

Somerville · 26/06/2017 11:59

He has rights, And in this case he should exercise them

No, children have rights. Their parents have responsibilities. And although I agree that he should have excercised his PR by not agreeing to everything his exW wanted, now that his DC live in another jurisdiction there is not much he can do about it, I suspect. It will certainly be much more expensive than before they left the country.

The ex sounds like a complete control freak

Agreed. But he sounds utterly spineless. There is fault on both sides here, and that's what OP needs to realise - she should only marry him with her eyes fully open about that.

SwedishToast · 26/06/2017 12:00

If they lived in the same country it would be entirely odd. But as they seem fine with the current situation the only person here not getting why they want is the op. At the moment the children see their dad in their environment they are comfortable in. They wouldn't be happier for going abroad to meet his wife.

DoesAnyoneReadTheseThings · 26/06/2017 12:00

Loopy - no I was asking a question. There was no point in me offering the advice I did without it knowing the relevant info Grin

AssassinatedBeauty · 26/06/2017 12:00

She might be a control freak but think about this from the children's point of view. They haven't ever stayed with their dad away from their mum, they haven't been to his home in a different country to them. They haven't met his partner. For them to attend the wedding all of those things need to change. I don't think it's reasonable to expect children to cope with all of that for the first time at the wedding. It all needs to be achieved gradually first, and if the wedding is soon then that's not likely to happen.

Of course the ex partner hasn't got the right to demand who their dad introduces them to. But if he's staying in her home when he sees the children then she can say who is and isn't welcome in her home. Hence the suggestion that he gets used to staying elsewhere and having the children on his own. Then he can manage introducing the OP via Skype, and then perhaps meeting her in person if she accompanies him. Then they can arrange for the children to come and stay with their dad at his home. But it's all got to be done at a pace that the children can get used to.

Lottie991 · 26/06/2017 12:00

Do you know what country she lives in then Swedish to know what laws and rights fathers have there?

SwedishToast · 26/06/2017 12:01

Op I'd wonder why your partner didn't get custodybif he was the stay at home parent. I suspect he's been fine with things or she'd have never been able to go abroad.

user1498466918 · 26/06/2017 12:01

Just to be clear: not particularly fussed about the wedding - assumed she wouldn't let them come - only thought of it in the sense that they might be disappointed if they couldn't.

Somerville: Bit harsh I think! Agree that at first he didn't want to rock the boat, but he's tried speaking to her several times over the years - each time being met with a stern "no." He's not making excuses - it's now got to the point where he may have to take legal action! This has been going on for so long because we both decided that we wanted it to be as amicable as possible - hence getting her used to the idea and asking politely. That's clearly not working...

OP posts:
SwedishToast · 26/06/2017 12:02

I'm assuming the op is in the uk as she's on a British forum referring to his partner abroad. If that's not the case that's fine but I can't be blamed for assuming.