Suddenly finding myself at the end, after 12 years?

[Flyingmoonpig]

Hello there,

I have been a long term lurker and have never posted! Thought I'd give it a shot and see if anybody might be able to offer any guidance. I feel lost TBH.

Myself and my partner have been together for 12 years and we have three children (8, 5 and 3). My partner is 11 years older than me and also has 2 children from when he was married.

Our relationship had a fairly unsteady start... lots of drinking & taking drugs together, me struggling to get used to dating a man with children, ex wife, controlling mother etc. We were taken with each other right away but life was complicated.

We broke up 2 years into our relationship because he didn't want anymore children and I did, this had been a big source of conflict and we agreed to split. He came back to me saying he'd changed his mind and that he would love to have children with me so after a period of time we got back together.. lots of drama after I'd slept with someone else while we were apart.

Anyway we carried on as usual, going out at the weekends, went on holiday then found out I was pregnant. 1st child born in 2008 (who was very hard work!).

I was studying at the time which made becoming a parent really tough. Other half had lost his home to repossession and was facing bankruptcy. We were skint, stressed & miserable. When he was 2 I accidentally got pregnant after contraception failure and had an ectopic pregnancy, then a few months later I had severe dyskariosis of the cervix.

I had started working and partner had started up a business which was not paying him any money, also stressful. I found myself pregnant again (planned this time) later in the year and had another child in 2012. Found myself pg again when ds2 was 1!!! Bit of a shock but I was happy, partner was not and questioned paternity!

Anyway his business has picked up and for the last few years he has taken wages, I supported household for three years with the help of tax credits prior to this though. It was a v hard time.

We've had some lovely times but a lot of our socialising has centred on drinking (plus drugs in the early days but not for a long time now). I was very insecure from the start because of ex wife and I had just come out of a very abusive relationship which I had no way healed from.

After being v lovely at first OH would change at times, uncommunicative, and inconsistent. If we argued when drunk he would break stuff or hit doors, once he slapped me round the face (but we were both drunk and I was being horrid). He reeled me in but would act sometimes completely disinterested, turning down sex and being very unaffectionate.

There has been a lot of selfish behaviour over the years such as leaving me to wet baby's head after C section, siding with his family over things e.g. When his sister wanted to stay over after I'd had csection and I said only for a night and she got upset.. he had a go at me, doing what he wants to do when he wants to do it e.g. Working all hours, nights out etc.

Perhaps none of these sound that bad but I just find that I feel pretty lonely. He's not outwardly horrible to me and can be really lovely at times. He's v sociable and all his friends and family love him. However in the relationship he doesn't really talk to me, works all the time, and does not help around the house at all. There is no affection between us and this has been absent for years.. in the early days I used to cuddle him and he just acted like he felt awkward, over time it's just started to feel weird.

It's like nothing's that bad that I can say there is a concrete reason but a gradual drip feed of stressful circumstances and me feeling quite unsupported and unappreciated over the years has led me to feel like I've fallen out of love.

Mother's Day was the worse and it's all come to a head since then, am on antidepressants, counselling and couples counselling. We talk in couples counselling but at home he just gets cross if I try and raise a difficult matter or just stares at the tv to avoid it!! He hates me asking him to do anything round the house and said that he works so hard and I don't appreciate what he does do. I also work 30 hours a week in a stressful job and am struggling. I know he is too because his business is really stressful.

It's hard to know how much of my depression is down to the relationship and how much is my own stuff but I am working through this in counselling.. but I just keep coming to the conclusion that we are not a good match. I feel like I'm growing spiritually and in my self understanding and also coming to terms with the abuse from the past but I don't feel like I want to share this with him because he doesn't get me and I've always had a gut feeling deep deep down that it's not right although for quite a while I did think he was my soul mate and we got engaged. However the wedding planning stopped and started and has now halted and my engagement ring has come off now!!

Just wondered what other people would do in this situation? He's not a bad man but is intrinsically selfish without even realise, was moddycoddled by his mum and is crap at communication. I'm probably no walk in the park either but I am trying my best. We have three young children and are being civil to each other. I feel like giving up!

Sorry it's long if you got that far!!!! Summarising 12 years is hard lol thanks for reading xxx

Aww bless your ds! My eldest is a hugger too and I am attempting to get him to sleep in his own bed tonight but it doesn't seem to be working! If he's not asleep when I go up I think he'll be in with me again as he is (understandably) very insecure at the moment.

I read about gas lighting and some of that ran true.. plus passive aggressiveness! Partner tries to avoid conflict at all costs but deep down there is a lot of anger and resentment and he has a general sense of negativity so you never know what he's thinking. Then the outbursts really freak me out.

He has a definite hatred of women/mysoginistic values and this comes through in all of his behaviour.. for example for about 4 consecutive years he would invite my brother on his work xmas party but never me, even though I knew and got along with all the people that worked for him. When I asked he would say no but never really gave me a reason. On my birthday he asked where I'd like to go so I named a specific Italian restaurant that I love... he booked somewhere else and said he thought we'd try somewhere different!! These aren't even negative things but indicate his attitudes and selfishness. On my 30th birthday I'd planned a meal with friends and family (and him) in the evening. Got up in the morning and asked him what we were doing... he had literally made no plan. I got so upset I took ds1 out on my own, bought a cake and he sang happy birthday to me in the park... he was 3 years old!!

I know what you're saying about the holiday.. i think the children's behaviour could potentially become v difficult and I don't want to spend my chill out time feeling very aware of his presence.

He just doesn't want to be blamed.. I worry that his counselling will be him putting on his innocent side and never really get to the real issues. But that's up to him really. He's angry with me for sleeping with someone else when we were separated and he says because of this he finds it hard to trust and is still obviously v angry with me about it.. I don't know what I can do about that though, yes it has happened but I think his inability to move past it is about his insecurity... that I'm a sexual woman and have desires. I noticed really early on that he has quite a low sex drive and is not into sexy underwear. He rarely instigates sex and there have been very few real moments of connection in that department (a few times have been really nice but it's normally quite mechanical and he doesn't give me time to get into it). Then afterwards it's pj's straight back on and that intimacy and connection is missing. Leaves me feeling a bit hollow. I thought this was all my problem because of the rape and other assaults from my ex but now I realise that I feel uncomfortable now because I don't feel safe of connected to him, which in the context of past abuse is a flipping nightmare!! Haven't explained this to him because I don't feel I need to given our situation.

Sorry for rant, again lol. I clearly have a lot to say!!! Xxx

Don't be sorry, that's what MNs for! And it didn't even sound that ranty considering, that thing about your 30th made my blood boil on your behalf How sweet of your Ds to sing to you but what an outstanding fail on your ex's part.

Think you're on to something with the passive aggressive personality. My ex was one, used to "forget", downplay or spoil all special dates like birthdays and anniversaries (but was quite capable of remembering his own), gave crappy random presents (late) if he did "remember", low sex drive but a mega flirt so I felt for ages it was my fault he was close to impotent, never taking responsibility for his mistakes or sticking up for me against his narc family..list goes on.

It's normal to want a sexual connection with your partner. He's clutching at straws using what happened when you were separated as any kind of justification for whatever. Again, a distraction from his behaviour, in the present, while tou were together.

Must sleep now. Stay true to yourself, re-read your thread!

Thanks lurking! Yes I nearly ended our relationship on my 30th because I felt so uncared for but as usual he talked me round. Little ds singing in the park was so sweet, I was 6 months pregnant at the time too.

I'd looked up the passive aggressive thing recently and a lot of it ran true.. sounds like you really went through it with your ex and how awful that he presented as overtly sexual but clearly had problems in that area.

When me and ex partner got together I thought we should be bonking every night but after the first few weeks it tapered right off. I'd initiated a lot and would then wait to see if he would and invariably it just didn't happen. I would feel so frustrated and unattractive. Often if I have him a bj he'd close his eyes and turn his head away!

He does everything to distract from his behaviour. He came round to see the kids tonight and seems very chirpy! Think he's actually quite enjoying his new found freedom. However he sat there staring at his phone quite a lot which I think is crazy given that he's not seen his kids for the last couple of days, then went to leave because 'he had work to do'.. I said I thought he might want to read to the kids as he's not been around for bedtime all week and he said I can't have it all ways. E.g. If he's not living here I can't expect too much of him. I pointed out that it's for the children to have some bonding time with him and also that he can't punish them because we're not together... also that after everything, he has a massive work addiction and was choosing not to put his kids to bed so he could get an extra 1/2 hour work in.

Anyway its done my head in a bit because he just belittles all my views and experiences and explains them away. Glad he's gone!

Re: custody.. he's now happy to pay maintenance and have kids overnight one or two nights a week plus take the boys to their swimming lessons so that's good.

He's being very nice and agreeable to everything even when I suggested a child support amount. Anyway let's see how it goes. I need boundaries, as it's only a few days in and when he's here it's like we are still together. He asked me for a hug earlier and is still calling me love!! Not that he's actually called me that for a long time.

I feel like it's all in my head and I've made an inaccurate assessment of the situation!!!

Xxx

Hi flyingmoon,
I really don't think its all in your head.
How monumentally selfish to deprive his children of his time to punish you.
Also, chirpy isn't a normal reaction to splitting up with the one your supposed to love and seeing your kids less.
Does he usually play mind games like that? Cos his behaviour certainly sounds like it and without analysing why, I'd be telling myself that's proof in itself that you're doing the right thing by ending the relationship.
It's just so tiring. Like being with a teenager in a man's body.
Boundaries would be good you're right. Maybe go out for a walk until he's finished putting them to bed? When we were at that stage I ended up asking him not to come anymore as it wasn't good for any of us. But of course our stories are different and this is still early days for you.

I guess I just feel some bits are familiar. Like, the impression I get that he's accustomed you to making it all about him. Your energy is so taken up trying to understand him and/or explain and justify yourself that there isn't enough left for yourself (ie to leave).
No magic solution to that except that time away from him will help a lot. It did take me a while. But now I can see how it all works with my ex. He's like this emotional vortex, it sucks me in because he knows I'm the type to try and help, understand, empathise. Pointless with a passive aggressive who will just thwart all attempts to help him. It's what they do. I had to learn to let go or it would have worn me down completely. I hope you can get the distance you need to see what you want without him being in the equation, if only just for a while.
Hope this weekend is peaceful. I'll check in when I can but hope you'll get some space x

Hi lurking,
Yes his demeanour was almost quite positive.. said he wanted to sort it out or course and couldn't work me out and what I'm thinking. I asked him how he's getting on staying at our friends house (which is a beautiful big house in a lovely setting) and he said that if he has to be in this situation he's glad he's there, nice house with friends around him etc. He looked quite happy but was saying of course he wants us to sort it out. He is obviously very cushioned right now, unlike me who's doing the lion share of the work but then that's how its always been for him... pampered and catered to by everybody else. I just felt for the kids because he couldn't wait to rush off to get to work again, despite everything that's been said. He did say that the kids seem absolutely fine.

He's so fixated on the work situation... that he can't believe I've ended it when things are so close to changing. I again stated that it's not just work, although managing this demand has been truely backbreaking: I worry about his temper and the potential for the children to grow up with a repressed and angry man. He said he's talking to the counsellor about it but that realistically everyone gets angry and I'm blowing it out of proportion. The thing is that the anger comes out in a variety of ways so it's not always obvious... you have the occasional destructive outbursts, in addition to calling me a c* in arguments, the general sense of unease just when he's around because he's distracted and too important to engage with any of us. But he does not see this and thinks I'm blowing it out of proportion. I noticed really early on that he is monumentally selfish and he really cannot see this.

I'm trying to rebuild some kind of life for myself here but obviously it's hard because my routine is the same, plus when I see him he's turning on the charm, kind smiles, etc. However I did point out that he's not like this on a day to day basis in the relationship and that I feel invisible. I was starting to feel strong and when he talks to me he makes me feel like I'm just mad and then for ages afterwards it really brings me down. This decision has not been taken likely and it feels like the only thing that has truely made sense for months.

I went to the gym yesterday while he gave the kids their dinner (and had some himself) which I'd prepared earlier that day. Then I went to the shop to buy a lemon and bought a bottle of red in case I fancied one glass (have not been drinking for ages but thought I deserve a glass after such a stressful few months!!!). I was going to leave it in my car because I knew he'd ask questions but I brought it inside and put it in the side. He got funny about it, saying he thought I wasn't drinking and that it's a slippery slope. I said that I just thought a glass would be nice to chill out too. Just felt really controlling and I think he took it personally because I haven't been drinking and then planned to. TBH I didn't even fancy it in the end and didn't open it.

When I got a bit upset about him not staying to put the kids to bed he then stayed and read their book (much more animated than usual) and then left but didn't put them to bed or tuck them in. Missed such a special part of the evening but seemed quite jolly going on his way.

The thing is that in the past when we've come close to splitting, he turns on the charm and niceness. However on a day to day basis he's aloof, unaffectionate and selfish and it always goes back to this.
He wants me to go to his counselling on Wednesday... not sure how I feel about that.

Thanks for the reply lurking. The differing perspectives on this situation are quite hard to get your head around and he seems so plausible but then it has been making me so unhappy that it can't be right. Despite him saying that it's my perception of the situation... surely that stands for something??!!

Xxx

Flying, you need to focus on how things were in the last many years, not how he is behaving currently, it's not a reflection of your life together. And of course you are not blowing things out of proportion with his anger. It is not acceptable. Even if you are not perfect, and no one is, you can't take responsibility for his actions. How he responds in any given situation is his problem. He is focusing on his work as the main hurdle, as then he can blame it on something else, like you have described previously, he can hide behind that and not take responsibility.

lurking: Your energy is so taken up trying to understand him and/or explain and justify yourself that there isn't enough left for yourself (ie to leave). - OMG, that is so spot on with my DH as well! Why do so many of us women think we can save our partners and fix their lives?

Flying, you need to stop trying to understand your DP, you need to move to acknowledging how things actually are, not look for reasons or explanations, just focus on the facts, not what they mean or how they can be excused.

My DH came back from his trip last night, and the break does seem to have done something good, we have not had any conflict and even went out for a family walk this morning. But it's always been like this, every hour that was conflict-free was a victory for me, as it was so hard to keep things peaceful, and it shouldn't be such a struggle. It's been so draining and I am so depleted. I don't want to have to fight so much, feeling that it's all down to me, that I have be responsible for the atmosphere in the house, while DH sat back and watch me struggle (and regularly fail!).

I'm off with the DC to a church fete this afternoon and then a midsummer celebration locally. DH is not going, his choice - as usual. He often complains that he feels like the outsider, but he never wants to do much with us. When I look at family photos, there are very few of me, as I take the photos, and hardly any of him, as he refuses to be in them - it's photos of the DC mainly.

flying beware of going to the counselling if he finds it easy to turn on the charm.

Ask him to get the counsellor to phone you in advance to discuss the objectives of the meeting and his/her proposed approach to meeting those objectives in the meeting.

Don't decide during the call whether to go ahead. Ask the counsellor to send you a summary of the call in writing and tell her you will consider your options and get back to her. Any decent therapist will be totally happy with that.

I suggest making a list in advance of the phone call of the main things you believe he should be working on with the counsellor. Presumably these are angry outbursts, continuing belief that angry outbursts are normal, acceptable and the associated belief that you and the children should tolerate the outbursts and are unreasonable to complain, and of course his extreme selfishness.

I'd have a list of examples of the anger and the selfishness ready for the counsellor. I bet he has massively understated it to her.

Hi misscph... yes it's hard because I'm so used to understanding the situation and just trying harder. Plus when he turns on the innocent and I'm feeling vulnerable it then makes me question myself. It's not an easy road to go down is it... just because we've got through the hard part there's still so much uncertainty and negative stuff to work through.

I know what you mean about having to put effort in to keep things peaceful.. I felt like I was always the one being the motivator, organiser etc and it is truely exhausting. How did you get on at your fete? Sounds like a lovely afternoon.. hope you all had a lovely time (better that your husband wasn't there perhaps?). I know what u mean about the pictures.. we don't have loads of us together as a family and never did whole family professional pics. My ex partner puts himself in the role of outsider through not really getting involved, but he's always appeared to prefer it this way.

I am truely exhausted. Had a fab day with the kiddies yesterday, going to the shops to get party bag stuff then spent ages at the park and we all had a lovely relaxed time together. Last night I had three glasses of red wine (3/4 of a bottle), should have stopped after 2 and I am paying for it today. Not in the physical sense but my mind feels really negative and my own feelings of shame and disgust are bubbling. I shouldn't have had any and feel like a fool, I just wanted to feel a bit fuzzy for a while. it's all just so raw that now is not a good time to drink and TBH I did think that before opening the bottle but thought that now he's gone perhaps I wouldn't feel as bad. I was wrong, I feel like an alcy that can't say no and I hate myself for this.

He's taken the kids out today so I'll get a whole 4 hours break! Then he's taking the boys swimming at 4pm and said he will do bath and bedtime so he'd better stick to it. He asked me if I wanted to come out with them... urh no thank you!!! I need a break!!!

Thanks misscph, hope you're doing ok. I fear I am not and I only have myself to blame for this one xxx

Hi runrabbit..
Yes you have given some fantastic advice! I will call the counsellor this week and talk to her about my concerns. In the couples sessions he very much presented as charming, kind and innocent and I wonder if this is how it would proceed if she wasn't given a very clear heads up about what I perceive the real issues to be.

Despite everything I've said he still minimises most things and only said sorry for the rape comment.. however he still thinks I should be able to move past it because it was said in anger.

He's just collected the kids and TBH I felt absolutely nothing for him except extreme annoyance!!! I do not want to be his partner and it feels so good to say that. however I'm feeling really fragile and this is not helped by the fact that I had some wine last night. I feel quite damaged today and scared about the future and what it holds for me and the kids. If I can't learn not to drink then how am I going to learn to make the right relationship choices? I feel like a damaged dysfunctional idiot. Sorry to be so negative but that is just how I'm feeling right now.

I am going to write a list for the counsellor, and then watch him explain it all away for an hour!! Probably totally pointless but at least I'll get my point across. I just keep thinking what type of person would push their partner to the point of breaking and not even see that there was a significant lack of support and appreciation. What kind of partner calls them a c*? Not a very nice one by all accounts and also someone with such extreme selfishness they can't even see it. I am definitely not perfect but I am really trying to become a better person and also heal from some horrid experiences xxx

Sorry me again.. I just can't believe it's over.. looking at all our pictures and memories on Facebook. I don't even know how to begin to separate all of that. To spend 12 years together and then it all changes, I miss our family. Shame it wasn't the happy family I'd tried to convince myself it was this is just so hard xxx

Yes, it is hard!! But can you think of another 12 years of the same? Or 20 years more with him? Change of any kind can be really, really difficult. Keep on taking steps in the direction you want to go, and you will get there in the end; just do not give up. There are women on Mumsnet who have been married 20 - 30 years and then divorce, and can tell you how much better their lives are afterward. Keep on keeping on...

Flying, I know that feeling of really needing a glass of wine or similar, but I very rarely drink as just one glass of wine can give me horrid hangover! But I also know myself well enough to realise that this is definitely NOT the time to be having a drink. My mum got me a 1 L bottle of Bailey's when she was visiting in January, and I have allowed myself a very small glass of it a couple of times a week since, the rule was never 2 days in succession, and only a very small glass (shot glass). I am such a light weight that it gave me a tiny buzz, but not enough to give me a hangover. I only finished the bottle a few weeks ago! You did really deserve those glasses of wine, and I am very envious of you! But I just can't handle the hangover. It's been like that for years, and TBH because of the drinking when we were young, I feel that I have had my full quota. I know what it tastes like, and I will have a glass of wine one day, just not now.

I think with you and the drinking, you should see this as a lesson, that you do not benefit from it, that you think it will bring relief, but actually it brings a depressed feeling and it's really bad for your self-esteem. We live in a culture where having a drink is one of the few ways adults unwind. But there are other ways to unwind. I used to do yoga videos in the evening, and I often have a magnesium flake bath (get it on Amazon, incredibly relaxing). In the long run that is so much better for you than the quick fix like alcohol or sweet treats, which really only give you a very brief feeling of relaxing, and then you have the come-down.

I really don't think you will gain much form seeing the couples' counsellor. From what you say I think you have spent enough time in counselling. It's time to look ahead. If you go to counselling with your DP, then you are giving him hope and you risk letting yourself being sucked in again.

I completely understand with the old photos, I saw some photos of me and DH pre-kids at my sisters in May, and we looked really good together. But we were so young, and it's a long time ago. I don't think this is a good time for you to be looking at old photos. Look ahead, start visualising what you want to see in photos from now on!

DH actually ended up coming with us to the fete, and we all had a nice time. Then me and DC went off to celebrate midsummer, and had a great time.

This morning just me and DH went out for a long walk (DS had a bit of a tummy ache, and they were both quite tired from yesterday, so they stayed home). We didn't talk about "it" at all, just enjoyed the walk. At some point we had to crawl over a fence with barbed wire at the top, as the path was blocked, and I completely panicked. I made myself climb it, but I tore my jeans a bit and I had a very overwhelming feeling of - I don't know really, desperation? I could have said let's turn around, but I felt that it would ruin the walk and that I had to. I have felt similar, a while ago when were were trying to leave Bristol and the slip-road onto the motorway was closed for roadworks, and I could not find my way home. I completely panicked and felt very overwhelmed and anxious. DH doesn't drive (he's nightblind), and it took me over an hour before we were on the right way home. It's a terrible feeling of being in over my head, having to do something I really didn't want to do, but making myself do it. I think it has to do with always having to be the one in charge and having the responsibility , it's just too much. I need someone to reassure me and tell me it's all right, but that is obviously not going to be DH, he just suggested that I look up some stress management techniques online. I feel very much on my own. And that's a choice I have made, I have always wanted to be strong and independent, but I panic when I fail.

So this afternoon I an working on my tan in the garden and catching up on work. Getting some much needed relaxing and ensuring next week won't be too hard!

Hi mumndad37, thank you for your message. It was that exact thought that kicked me up the butt to end the relationship. After Mother's Day, and the lighthearted but true comment from his mother that Mother's Day doesn't even exist I was looking 20 years into the future.. seeing him retired, me still working full time. Him at golf all day and then me coming home to cook the dinner and clean the house. We would turn into his parents. Or I'd be so resentful I'd be living completely separately under the same roof, just horrible. In arguments over these matters over the last few years I always said that this was my fear, that the lack of affection and support would alienate me. My mum left my dad when she was 45 and now wishes she'd left earlier.

Hi miss cph! Glad you had a nice time at the fete and managed it with your husband in tow! Sorry to hear your walk left you feeling a bit panicked, feelings like that are stifling aren't they. That feeling of being completely overwhelmed but also powerless is just horrible... like you know your stuck in a situation which is totally beyond your control but you can't do anything about it. It's a lot of responsibly for you as well if your husband doesn't drive.

I used to get that feeling a lot especially at the weekends. Midweek routine has kept us afloat really, it's so busy and keeps us focussed. Weekends, things always turn to chaos! Especially if we have no plans. Ex partner could spend hours in the garden swinging his golf club before we've even got started. I ask what he wants to do.. always says he doesn't mind, what do I want to do. Grrrrr. I make suggestions, he'll normally turn down swimming and soft play. Opting for a walk. which is fine so I get clothes out, ask him to help dress kids (normally I'm preparing lunch or a picnic). He stands on his phone for ages, chases kids round once then says he can't do it because they won't comply. So I get them dressed. Inside I'm normally feeling pretty stressed as internally I'm trying to motivate everyone and have a 'lovely family day'. Once out he lightens up normally but often looks quite aloof and if we r at the park he sits while I play with the kids. It's disappointing.

There have been days when we've barely made it out of the house because it all feels like too much hard work!! It really gets on my nerves and I then feel like a crappy parent because I just want to enjoy the kids and it's all tense and really laborious. I've always thought it was hard because the kids were tiny but what really gets to me is his attitude and the fact I feel I have to organise everything, come up with ideas and then sort out the logistics as well.

Did u manage to catch a tan? Sounds like a lovely way to spend a Sunday afternoon! Being strong and independent is great but everyone likes support and appreciation.

I cheered up this afternoon. After ex took the kids out I bagged up the garden cuttings (a lot after I had a major gardening session yesterday). He then came back after 1.5 hours!! Said dd needed a wee. I was loading my car with bags and branches.. ex stood watching and ds1 told him to help me!!! I went to the tip with ds2 and ex stayed at house with the other 2. After that I went to the gym (felt heaps better after this, I love the positive effects of exercise) and then ex took the boys swimming (yay!) while dd and I did more gardening and had a bath.

Ex came back with kids at 6:30 and I was dishing up dinner. Kindly offered him some so that he could eat with the kids as they asked. He said thank you. Ate his dinner, didn't help to tidy up after and then I signposted instructions for bedtime to him for the rest of the evening.

He went shortly after but while putting kids to bed he's saying how much he wants to come home. I said he shouldn't talk like that in front of the kids. We had already made agreements but now he's feeling fragile (after a 12 hour drinking bender for his friends birthday yesterday) he's acting all vulnerable and needy. Started blowing me kisses as he was leaving and has just text saying he wants us to talk about him coming back home!!! It's like banging my head against a brick wall!!!

Thanks so much for the replies... I try to get back when I can but have been so busy the last few days xxxx

Ps yes the wine was so stupid and I knew it was risky. Continued abstinence is on the cards now as my mental health is far too precious to risk. I find it a bit frustrating as I'm getting lots of invites to gin/prosecco festivals, girls nights out etc (always more fun with a drink in hand) but it literally makes me feel suicidal the next day and it's so not worth it. Misscph well done on the baileys! I froze the leftover wine to put in spag bol. Was also given this gorgeous gin hamper for my birthday a couple of months ago which I haven't touched. It'll keep.

Just thought I'd post again because whilst putting ds2 to bed, ex says that he misses home (not surprising when you have a partner that works, cooks, cleans, washes, organises, motivates, saves etc!!!). He said he'd even have a wedding with just 3 people there if I wanted (meaning our 3 kids I think). I said that I'd made a ton of suggestions about our wedding so we could get it on a reasonable budget and he dismissed every idea I had pretty much. I told him he never listened to any of it.. he says 'now he's listening'. He was a hungover desperate man and I pointed out that marriage is the exact opposite of what I want!!!

Just makes my blood boil, that when it came to the planning the wedding that he was so focussed on what he wanted he put down all of my ideas, when to me I was trying to achieve a realistic affordable wedding because it was more important that we were married. The ideas were really nice in fact. Again I just felt invisible as normally brides get a fairly significant say on what they want on their wedding day!! After the wedding plans fell by the wayside last year (I had even bought a dress which is hanging up in the wardrobe) I felt such a sense of loss, which has again contributed to the current situation.

I don't think either of us ever truely wanted it enough to make it happen and our mismatched views represent a common theme in our relationship. Constant power struggles and pushing and pulling in different directions.

I would so love to feel desired and truely loved by someone. Someone who finds me interesting and can enjoy my sometimes odd sense of humour. Someone who i feel connected to and be myself around.. someone who makes me feel more positive about my life and who would love to be loved by me and all that that involves. Hope that doesn't sound really selfish but these are things I'd love to experience but it feels like a totally impossibility. (Esp now I'm a single mum of 3 children!!!). Xxx

Don't worry about the wine, nobody's perfect! TBH I have stashed some gin & tonic for this week, as DH is away ;) I am thinking I can have a tiny drink one evening without getting a headache.

Also, you are keeping up the exercise, that is so good! So am I, I go swimming 2-3 times per week, sometimes with one DC, sometimes on my own. It is so therapeutic for me.

It sounds like your DP is not accepting that you have said it's over, he thinks you will calm down and take him back You are going to have to be really hard now, it won't be easy. I guess this is also part of it, that he simply doesn't take you seriously?

I'm not having a good day. I started off by shouting and screaming at DH over money (we are trying to split finances, always had shared finances, and it's not going well, we are both self-employed, and my clients all have different payment terms so it's a bit messy for me), but I had to apologise as I have not slept well and I am PMS. He rang me later to ask if I needed any money, and I said that I appreciated that, but no thank you so far. I also said that this is one of the big reasons I want to split, that I have been loosing it once a month for years and I'm not improving. I don't want to be like that, I don't want to do that to him. That is my big part in the breakdown of the relationship, I have really rubbish communication skills, I boil over once a month. In my defence, he doesn't ever want to talk to me, though. I wish I could remain calm and rational at all times, but once a month I just can't. My theory is that I won't do this anymore if we split up, that I am keeping a lid on too much, and that's why I get dreadful PMS.

It sounds messy with the wedding plans, Flying. Probably best you don't mull over that too much. I do know the feeling of wanting someone to show affection and love. DH says I have unrealistic expectations. He would have carried on if I hadn't said stop. I just don't get that. But I think that he will find someone that he actually wants to show affection, I don't think that he is just like that, even if he says he is. I think he is repressing that side of himself, and I don't think that's right. I think we have so much conflict that he doesn't want to touch me (apart from sex), and that is now normal for him, he has accepted it.

I have not done much work today. I am going to have some lunch and then go for a swim and a sauna. I have been on the verge of tears for hours, I really need to get out of my head ;)

Thanks misscph!
I quickly forgave myself about the wine., it was just that alcohol anxiety feeling in the morning made me feel wretched. Been invited to a girls night in on Saturday so will go but stick to lime and soda!

I bet you love the swimming, it's so relaxing isn't it. I love exercise and it really does keep me sane. Managed to fit in a quick spin class after work today so that was good.

Hope the pms has calmed down.. I know that feeling!! It's good that you're able to see your part in the demise of the relationship as we each have our own influence don't well. My ex partner thinks I'm acting all virtuous and blaming him. It he truth is that I've taken responsibility for as much as I can but he has to own his stuff, not blame me.

I'm not sure if my ex would be affectionate with anyone else, certainly in the beginning but I do think his default position is contained and aloof and not very touchy feely. I on the other hand am really affectionate but after the earlier abuse and continual rejection from ex I am very guarded and wary.

Hope you felt better after your swim? Shame to be feeling so awful but we know when things aren't right and it's so stressful for our brains and bodies. I have had a lovely quiet evening in the conservatory listening to the trees and catching up on some finance stuff.

Ex said he can't give me any money at the moment because of having to move out and find a new place plus furniture. I asked him if he wants anything from the house and he said no.

So having to be super careful with budgeting. I have savings but really don't want to use them. Hope you're ok. It's late I need to sleep now... no one aborning next to me yay!! Xxx

*snoring!

Hi flying, I am much better now, I had a great swim (and some very appreciated attention from one of the fitter male swimmers!). I did end up with another (short) argument with DH in the evening, which really showed me the "cycle" it is: Typically I will be very PMS, then I will apologise, he will accept, later on I will address something, but he then uses my prior bad behaviour to reject me. It's scorecards, we both have long lists of the other's wrongdoings, and we hang on to this rather than forgive and accept each other. It's a cycle that none of us appear to want to break out of. I guess it's a defence, we both use it against each other. And this pattern has led to the breakdown of the relationship.

It seems that now your ex is accepting that he has moved out for good? Can you manage without any contribution from him?

Well done on the s.inning class. I really think that if you keep up the exercise, it will make a huge difference for your mood and resilience.

Urgh I just did a long post and lost the whole thing :(
I hope your argument wasn't too stressful.. it's so hard when keeping a scorecard.. me and ex definitely do this and nothing ever gets resolved.

I am truely hacked off right now. Am confused angry guilty and really don't know what to do. Ex is really pushing to come back and the kids are really missing him, I had two of them in tears tonight at bedtime and I felt so stressed out from talking to ex tonight that it was really hard.

I've asked for some child support as I don't have much left in my current account plus it's ds1s birthday this week, swimming lessons to pay for and general bills (eating?!). Ex has said that he doesn't know when he can pay me as he's starting from scratch with renting and furnishing a flat. His rent is going to be 900 a month (rents are expensive round here) for a two bed flat in a nice area. You can get places cheaper but he says he won't live in a shit hole. However he still has a car that costs him £300 a month. He pointed out that he's been extracted from his house, having to start again and therefore doesn't know about when he'll be able to afford child support.

Part of me feels that this is all too much hard work and we should just stay together.. cheaper to live and I can save up more money for the future. The kids really miss him and he seems genuine about wanting to work on things. Problem is that I feel really crazy, like I really don't know my own mind and that maybe my whole view is distorted.

The thing is that I don't trust him and therefore don't want to open up to him about all my personal problems.. esp since his horrid rape comment and threatening to get me sacked from work. But he said he was angry and is v sorry for saying it. However I still don't trust him.

I'm really quite damaged from all the crap in my life and I thought that being single would give me the freedom to finally move on from it. However it's not so simple when u have 3 young children..: xxxxx

He's picking up the kids from school tomorrow and bringing them home to give them dinner. Said tonight that he is going to cook dinner for me as well. I told him not to worry and he said he knew I would say that, but that he wants to do it anyway just to prove that he can.

Then he's staying the night as ds1 wants to wake up on his birthday morning with him there. Wish I'd never agreed to that. Kids really missing him tonight and I was crap as i felt so stressed after our conversation made me feel like it's all in my head... had less patience with the kids and then felt so guilty as they need support and guidance through this, not a short tempered mummy.

Tried to redeem myself at the end by talking through my and their feelings with them but I'm absolutely frazzled TBH. Maybe I'm just not cut out to be single parent to 3 you children. It is truely exhausting esp when I'm working 30 hours a week in a stressful job as well.

Sorry just had to blurt it all out... this is the absolute pits!!!! Xxx

Oh, I am so sorry, Flying, it must be so hard. Of course the DC miss him, he's their dad. They also miss their normal routine. But remember what lead to this. You have to absolutely steel yourself, it's going to be really hard. It's really easy to fall back into old patterns.

I completely understand why you are doubting yourself now. I think anyone would. Just keep remembering what made you tell him to leave. Perhaps re-read this thread?

I guess you could let him move back in, but only as flatmates and parents? And only temporarily? I understand about the money side of things, we have the same problem. I have no idea how we are going to be able to afford not living together, but I am not spending the rest of my life in an unhappy marriage, I would rather be poor.

One more thing, the £300 a month car is not your problem!

Yes I will reread the thread when I get a mo (when will that be lol).. I feel like all my reasons were justified but he looks so genuinely perplexed by my reaction to them.. like he know it was wrong but feels it's nothing we can't work through. Then obviously he points out my flaws..

Of which there are many I'm sure, will reflect on that now:

I used to take drugs and drink to excess when I was younger. Sometimes the night before going to work (but I still went, but prob did an awful job!).. however ex was there doing it with me.

I used to make ex talk to me in rows as he would shit down, so if drunk I would persist and persist.. a family trait that I've seen in my dad and I'm not proud of it. However I don't do this anymore.

I used to get offended if he didn't want to be close to me.

In the early days of parenting I would have an occasional angry outburst and lose it with ds1 and really shout. I am sooooo not proud of this.

I'm quite insecure and have very negative self concept at times, a lot of guilt and shame. However I don't share this with ex in any great detail because in an emotional level I do not feel I can trust him.

I present well and really strong but inside have a lot of anxiety issues.
HOWEVER... I am working on all of this and to be fair to myself I grew up in a violent household with a v controlling father and dominated mother, terrible divorce when I was 15, then left to fend for myself, got a boyfriend who was quite stable and moved in with him at 16 years (he'd bought his first house as was 4 years older). Left him at 18 when I went to uni then was homeless so moved in with my brother (who was/is a cocaine addict)..
Found drugs, LOVED them. Also found a clean living intelligent boyfriend at uni who I adored. But he only wanted me for the physical side of things and would pick me up and drop me regularly.
He moved away and I was heartbroken. Then we saw each other again and were planning a future. Then he dumped me again.
I then started taking loads of drugs with my wrongun friends and had some horrendous experiences whilst very vulnerable. Ended up going out with my v abusive ex who:

Raped me,
Tortured me in bed with a knife,
Checked my underwear for signs I was cheating,
Times when I got home from work
Was v paranoid about all of my sexual experiences and made me feel disgusting for them,
Had sex with me while I was asleep
Attacked me and hit my head against the wall repeatedly.
Thought I was sleeping with his friends
Spiked me with ecstasy and laughed about it.
Threatened to kill himself and other things...
After we split:
Keyed my car with the word c*
Attacked my friend and brother
Chased me out of a nightclub
Set fire to a car at my dads house where I was staying
Stalked me at the gym
His sister and niece held me up against the wall and threatened me

Sorry to rant just needed to get it all out.

So after those circumstances I got involved with my now ex. So what I've struggled to work out is whether I've made a faulty decision in choosing his partner or whether my perception is distorted because of my earlier experiences.
However when feeling strong I feel that the current relationship is not right for all of the reasons discussed. Ex makes me feel crazy and fearful and this takes me straight back to my really abusive ex.. I know that's not his intention but it's what he evokes in me at the moment. I feel like a broken woman!!!

Sorry for the rant again xxxx

Oh, Flying, I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes, because you story is so heartbreaking, yet so strong! You have gone through so much, but you have come through it and you are so strong. You are trying to do the right thing for yourself, and I think also for your partner, but you are so confused and you are doubting yourself. You have had to do things without any support from those who should have been there for you when you grew up, and still you have managed on your own in spite of everything.

I don't think that your perception is distorted because of your earlier experiences. I think that your experiences are present, but to me it sounds like you are really trying to see things clearly, not through the lens of your past. We all have pasts and traumas that are present in our decision making, there is no escaping it.

I can certainly understand you need to get it out, and rant a bit. I think the way to look at it is that because you are under pressure at the moment, your past experiences are coming up again for you, and perhaps that's to warn you to avoid making the same mistakes again?

What you have told us on this thread about your partners family and how they interact and how he is is not good. It feels to me like you are thinking of taking him back because he wants you to, not because you want to take him back and because you think it would be better for your children. I think if you do take him back, you will be breaking up with him again in a few months. I don't think you children will benefit from you being unhappy in a bad relationship.

I was reading some articles about how to tell the children that you are divorcing and how they might react and feel, and honestly I was crying and wondering if I am doing the right thing. I am absolutely immersed in guilty feelings. But I remember my own parent's divorce, and it will never be that bad!

Perhaps you can think similarly? That if you break up, it will never be as bad for your children as it was for you?

I hope your DC has a wonderful birthday. If you are considering having DP back what is actually going to change?

You need to think what exactly it would take for you to be comfortable with him coming back and how long that should be sustained for. He needs to be going above and beyond but it sounds like he has taken no responsibility for his actions and has no plans to change his ways.

I think you should discuss change and boundaries with your counsellor. Also take a look at "Should I stay or should I go?" by Lundy Bancroft. Also, your DC will not understand what is going on - don't have your Partner back because you think the DC would like it. They want to please him too just like you but it might not be in their best interests. They are currently getting mixed messages.

He is being a swine about money - not wanting to pay maintenance! You are in a vunerable position because you have no idea how much he has been making from his round the clock working - he has only given you 50% of the bills and kept the rest. there is no financial transparency on his part - he likes being in control of that too- making you beg for money. His "needs" comes first in his mind above you and above his DC which is not right. He does not care if you have money for the DC as long as he can have a swanky flat in a good area.

I would get your information together - how much are you entitled to without him - use Turn2us claculator. Tell HMRC tax credits he has moved out and get a single person upgrade and a discount on the Council Tax. Start working towards getting a proper agreement for Child maintenance www.gov.uk/calculate-your-child-maintenance. You need to show you are serious about going it alone.

I hope you are serious - have you considered if he is a narcissist or if you are co dependent?

Ah thanks MissCPH! Feels quite surreal when I write it all down but just felt I needed to put it all out there. Yes I have worked through a lot of the old stuff in counselling and that allowed me to then reach the conclusion in a more focussed way, that the current relationship is still not right. I had such a sense of clarity when I came to this decision. Like a veil had been lifted and I was seeing it all clearly.

He really is trying desperately to reel me back in however, it is mostly words and not a lot of action. When he came to the house on Sunday to supposedly take the kids out he ended up coming back after 1.5 hours - I was loading the car up with garden waste and he stood there watching.. DS told him to help me! Even our child could see the issue with it, anyway I digress. I think we got off to a good start with the separation but with it being DS1s birthday tomorrow and with the ongoing contact situation its all becoming a bit muddy.

Thanks Wormulonian... Thank you for the kind wishes for DS's birthday. I really need to pull my finger out and get the rest of the bits sorted as currently I don't have anything wrapped, balloons not bought and I haven't even made the cake yet! At work at the moment.

Ex is very insistent that he will do whatever is needed in order to put the family back together again. However, he won't stay to put the kids to bed or have them overnight because this weekend he's going to his friends house. So he says all the right things but doesn't seem to follow through on action. How he'd implement all these mystical changes if we were together I'd have no clue, because he has admitted himself that when others are around he does not engage (eg on family/household matters etc). We need to live apart also simply because I can't stand to be around him and he needs to work on his stuff without the safety net of me.

I will look at the literature you recommended thank you. The extreme selfishness is there whether in the relationship or not and he has always acted like its his god given right to do what he wants to do - eg. not take a wage for 3 years with no discussion while I support us, buy expensive cars, ryder cup weekends - the way he goes about all of it conveys the message that he really doesn't care what I think. I imagine he will pay himself a low wage and then take dividends at the end of the year. However he said that he won't do wrong by the kids. But then his actions suggest otherwise as he wants to live in a nice area in which the rent costs more than that on the house I live in with the kids!

I told tax credits on the day he moved out and have just alerted the council who have amended my claim - not sure how much I am going to get in tax credits yet but I could still really do with the child support. Its all costing me a fortune!! Luckily I do have savings but I want to keep this to put towards buying my own home at some point (and would like to add to it to) - so that the children and me have a permanent home and I want to have something to leave to them in my will.

I have considered the narcissist thing and definitely see that he is passive aggressive. My dad is a definite narcissist but ex always seemed to have more empathy than that. However there are definite similarities and actually when you look at how ex consistently can't take responsibility and is so selfish (without even being aware) perhaps he is a narc. Maybe I am codependent. I'm really trying not to be because at heart i'm a very liberal free spirit, but I do try very hard to analyse situations and make sense of others experiences and why they do the things they do and what part i play in that. I will look it up. My mother is definitely codependent.

Thank you soooooooo much for the replies. I have these major insecurity periods where I just feel that I don't know myself and cannot cope with any of it. I feel like a small child being thrown amongst the lions but I know I have more strength than this. Its all crazy making stuff. xxxxx