Suddenly finding myself at the end, after 12 years?

[Flyingmoonpig]

Hello there,

I have been a long term lurker and have never posted! Thought I'd give it a shot and see if anybody might be able to offer any guidance. I feel lost TBH.

Myself and my partner have been together for 12 years and we have three children (8, 5 and 3). My partner is 11 years older than me and also has 2 children from when he was married.

Our relationship had a fairly unsteady start... lots of drinking & taking drugs together, me struggling to get used to dating a man with children, ex wife, controlling mother etc. We were taken with each other right away but life was complicated.

We broke up 2 years into our relationship because he didn't want anymore children and I did, this had been a big source of conflict and we agreed to split. He came back to me saying he'd changed his mind and that he would love to have children with me so after a period of time we got back together.. lots of drama after I'd slept with someone else while we were apart.

Anyway we carried on as usual, going out at the weekends, went on holiday then found out I was pregnant. 1st child born in 2008 (who was very hard work!).

I was studying at the time which made becoming a parent really tough. Other half had lost his home to repossession and was facing bankruptcy. We were skint, stressed & miserable. When he was 2 I accidentally got pregnant after contraception failure and had an ectopic pregnancy, then a few months later I had severe dyskariosis of the cervix.

I had started working and partner had started up a business which was not paying him any money, also stressful. I found myself pregnant again (planned this time) later in the year and had another child in 2012. Found myself pg again when ds2 was 1!!! Bit of a shock but I was happy, partner was not and questioned paternity!

Anyway his business has picked up and for the last few years he has taken wages, I supported household for three years with the help of tax credits prior to this though. It was a v hard time.

We've had some lovely times but a lot of our socialising has centred on drinking (plus drugs in the early days but not for a long time now). I was very insecure from the start because of ex wife and I had just come out of a very abusive relationship which I had no way healed from.

After being v lovely at first OH would change at times, uncommunicative, and inconsistent. If we argued when drunk he would break stuff or hit doors, once he slapped me round the face (but we were both drunk and I was being horrid). He reeled me in but would act sometimes completely disinterested, turning down sex and being very unaffectionate.

There has been a lot of selfish behaviour over the years such as leaving me to wet baby's head after C section, siding with his family over things e.g. When his sister wanted to stay over after I'd had csection and I said only for a night and she got upset.. he had a go at me, doing what he wants to do when he wants to do it e.g. Working all hours, nights out etc.

Perhaps none of these sound that bad but I just find that I feel pretty lonely. He's not outwardly horrible to me and can be really lovely at times. He's v sociable and all his friends and family love him. However in the relationship he doesn't really talk to me, works all the time, and does not help around the house at all. There is no affection between us and this has been absent for years.. in the early days I used to cuddle him and he just acted like he felt awkward, over time it's just started to feel weird.

It's like nothing's that bad that I can say there is a concrete reason but a gradual drip feed of stressful circumstances and me feeling quite unsupported and unappreciated over the years has led me to feel like I've fallen out of love.

Mother's Day was the worse and it's all come to a head since then, am on antidepressants, counselling and couples counselling. We talk in couples counselling but at home he just gets cross if I try and raise a difficult matter or just stares at the tv to avoid it!! He hates me asking him to do anything round the house and said that he works so hard and I don't appreciate what he does do. I also work 30 hours a week in a stressful job and am struggling. I know he is too because his business is really stressful.

It's hard to know how much of my depression is down to the relationship and how much is my own stuff but I am working through this in counselling.. but I just keep coming to the conclusion that we are not a good match. I feel like I'm growing spiritually and in my self understanding and also coming to terms with the abuse from the past but I don't feel like I want to share this with him because he doesn't get me and I've always had a gut feeling deep deep down that it's not right although for quite a while I did think he was my soul mate and we got engaged. However the wedding planning stopped and started and has now halted and my engagement ring has come off now!!

Just wondered what other people would do in this situation? He's not a bad man but is intrinsically selfish without even realise, was moddycoddled by his mum and is crap at communication. I'm probably no walk in the park either but I am trying my best. We have three young children and are being civil to each other. I feel like giving up!

Sorry it's long if you got that far!!!! Summarising 12 years is hard lol thanks for reading xxx

Seriously OP don't try and figure him out. It's not worth your mental energy. Leave. He's not worth even a tiny bit of effort and your life would be so much easier with him out of it - genuinely!

Lurkingwithlove.. yes I'm coming to realise that now. The two years I spent with my ex were very abusive and totally skewed my view of what a normal relationship is. I met my current partner only 6 months after leaving the ex (same amount of time separated for partner and his ex wife too). I have had a few periods of counselling over the years but only in relation to my abusive relationship and drug taking days, I always thought this relationship was normal even though I knew something wasn't quite right.

He just seemed so nice in the beginning and there were quite a few red flags early on but I ignored them because I thought he was so lovely and we bonded through our love of partying. We moved in together quickly and it all went from there, met the kids etc. Think I was more about winning than being truely in love with someone..: e.g. Me proving to his family I could be a good step mum, him proving to his ex wife that he'd moved on etc, pressure on him to get the divorce completed. Even when he proposed in bed I felt I had to say yes but if I'm honest deep down I had a bad feeling about it.

That sounds awful doesn't it. It really has taken me an age to start to really process all my earlier life experiences and get to know myself.. now I realise the relationship doesn't fit at all!!

I love my children so much and can't bear the thought of ripping their world apart. Had to talk to the teacher today about it as she had noticed the ds1 was v distracted in class. Plus we have a holiday booked over the summer and I really don't know what to do about that! Urgh it's such a mess.

Thank you sooooooooo much for the replies xxxxx

Thank u cliliated and teabay. Teabay I might just take you up on that. Meeting my friend in a mo for a chat so that will be nice xxx

Flyingmoonpig, we have been married 17 years (2 DC age 10 and 12), but 2 years ago I had a lot of stress after moving house and working a lot, and I found myself in peri-menopause (I'm 44). That's when I first started thinking that part of my personal problems had to do with my marriage, but because I was so stressed and very hormonal I didn't trust myself. On his suggestion we got a cleaner, I stopped working weekends and evenings (I work from home, I am self-employed) and I started swimming, took lots of different supplements etc.

This winter I started realising that I was better, but things between us were not better, in fact they were worse. It all culminated when he went on 2 x "business trips" to the Philippines in January and then April, and the photos on FB of him with his arms around his young female staff in bikinis on the beach made me realise that I was getting less attention and affection (ie. none) from him than his employees were. So I told him I no longer want to be married to him.

I am now seeing a counsellor (once a week, 6 weeks now). He refused couples counselling - he thinks it's all me.

I have really tried, and to be fair, so has he. But we are both rubbish at it. Like yourself, we have had difficult times financially (he also has been out out work for long periods), but now that we have more money, it's still shit.

I have agreed to go on the planned family holiday with MIL the first week, and then 2 weeks just the four of us. I can keep a straight face - I have done for some years now. But it's over for me. I have told him I am not having sex with him anymore (always had great sex, I will miss that!) and we currently just live together, although he is a very difficult lodger ;)

It sounds to me like you are quite clear in your head about this, but that you are sad that it's over? It's a huge step! But I think you would be happier on your own - on so many levels, you already are (so am I).

You won't rip their world apart, you'll help them make sense of the unease they are very likely picking up on, show them that it's not right to stay in an unhappy relationship and create a new world for them where they see you managing perfectly well without all of that weighing you down.

My DS thrived after I split from my exh...who still plays a big role in his life just not in my house or head space and that's been a very peaceful thing for both of us (me and DS I mean not exh, I think he needs too much attention and drama to ever find any kind of genuine peace). Leaving him was great for my self esteem and I think DS has benefited from that. I wish that for you whatever you decide. Night x

Misscph that sounds very difficult.. I know what you mean about the not trusting yourself because of hormones/stress etc. I too have done the same. My mental health if it's going to decline, it is always in the spring time (time of year it all hit the fan in a big with with the ex), plus I'd taken more hours at work, in addition to the stresses and strains of keeping everything going at home. Then it all kicked off from Mother's Day massively. But I was feeling so low and having flashbacks to ex so didn't really know what was going on. We have also got a cleaner now which is good but think taking more hours also caused some stress.

Do you think couples counselling would have helped? Glad you are getting on well with your own sessions. I'm really benefitting from mine and have been able to really explore so much stuff, inc my relationship which I've discovered is so unfulfilling in so many ways (inc affection & sex) and I'm a very loving person so this makes me feel really sad. The couples counsellor is good but I feel like he puts on a bit of an act for it all and is acting like a lost child with the process and not taking any responsibility... he thinks it's all my mental health and my uncaring family who mean that he can't do anything right (e.g. My interpretation of that is that he should be able to carry on as things are and I should be strong enough to cope!!).

Lurkingwithlove you sound really at peace with your decision and that's where I feel I'm headed. Despite all the chaos, when my inner voice tells me to end it I feel at peace with most things, including my biggest insecurities... it's like the relationship makes all this stuff worse and that's really unhealthy. Just not sure on timing... Father's Day then it's ds1s birthday in early July, holidays early and late august and then ds2 starts school in September. I don't want them to associate key events with trauma :(. Maybe go for end of school term and still holiday together??

Thanks again for the replies xxx

Hi flying just checking on you see how you're doing today.

I think re timing that once your mind is made up these things become less charged and easier to manage. If you know for sure you need to move on then you and he need to organise telling the DC as calmly as possible. We did it during the summer holidays and had separate times with DS so he'd get used to it a little before going back to school. Gave him time to zsk questions and realise we were still there fir him only not in the same house. I recommend it as it helps to have some time on your hands to explain and make the process as gentle for them as possible.

Once you feel sure something just shifts. I felt so much stronger and less anxious without carrying all that doubt around. Yes it's sad but that's natural and not a reason to stay.

Best wishes x

Hi lurking.. thanks for your reply. Sounds like you were really able to consider your DSs needs in managing the split. It's so hard isn't it.

Today I feel simply awful. When I am away from OH I feel quite resolute about everything and a split seems inevitable. However we have spent the day together today and had a discussion tonight.

I really don't feel that I can talk to him outside of therapy about all this stuff because he makes me feel like my views don't matter (he says he is defending himself). Never gives me a reason for all the previous things that have made me feel quite unsupported and abandoned by him, then I feel like it's all in my head.

He did point out that I'm on antidepressants at the moment (and the counselling) so is it really the right time to make such a huge decision. I pointed out that I think the relationship is causing me the stress which is making me feel worse!

We talked about the lack of affection and he said he feels rejected because I turn my head when he goes to kiss me.. but I can't fake it!! For years I've needed attention from him that he's never felt comfortable giving. Never really shows he desires me (except in the crazy early days). So it's not just now after three kids, it's been a problem the whole way through. Perhaps I quite liked his aloofness in a weird way previously after having been in a relationship with a total psycho nutcase!!! But as times gone on I really am craving someone that's really into me and he has never really made me feel that way.

It's really complicated and I've spent so much time trying to figure it all out, then feel quite enlightened in my own head.. only to talk to him and feel like I don't know what I'm doing at all.

He's right that it's such a huge life changing decision for all of us and I'm really scared to upset the kids. But how can I stay in a relationship that I've always had doubts about? We are not married and do not own a house together and TBH the thought of embarking on either of these things with him now fills me with dread!! So do we stay together unmarried, renting and in a bland relationship for the sake of the kids in the hope that we can somehow make it better?

I hate relationship problems. The stress of this is really starting to take its toll.

Thanks so much for reading and helping I really appreciate it xxx

Hi Flyingmoonpig, how did Father's Day go for you?

I do so feel for you, and I know what you mean about not being able to fake it when he tried to kiss you - I am the same with my DH, when he is obviously trying to be nice and not criticise I find it so hard to enjoy it and let go of years of him not appreciating me. If he did try to show affection/intimacy, I don't know what I would do!

I don't really think that couple's counselling would have helped, he would have hated it. I think it would probably have escalated the conflicts between us! I am actually going to take a long summer break from counselling, last session tomorrow, as there is little point at the moment as nothing is going to change until after the summer. I am going to be journalling instead.

I think we all come to a point where it's enough. You can't keep saying well, it's Fathers Day son, it's a DC birthday soon ... Are you going to wait until after Christmas?

Hi flying, yes it's really hard, no doubt about it. I had huge doubts at the time too, and only in hindsight realise what worked or didn't. Feeling sure it wasn't good for DS was the first step.

I'm kind of glad to hear you're sick of it all, that's healthy. No more questioning yourself. Can you decide not to use your head for a while and just trust your body?
Sounds like none of this is making you happy. All that thinking maybe means it's too frightening a prospect just yet and that's natural.

But it's just so tiring. I remember it so well. Now when I have to have contact with my ex it's far more obvious how all his mind games affect me, it's exhausting.

Maybe try the JADE technique if you absolutely have to talk to him, it stands for what not to do (justify, argue, defend or explain yourself). I found it helpful when he kept saying it was me and it's way less mentally tiring. Stick to the facts and don't waste energy working him out would be my advice x

See when a man hits you OP, then that shows you he is not worthy of you, no matter how drunk you both were, he's vile.

He's not a partner, he's not there for you, he doesn't help, he hates being asked to help with the house, what an absolute loser, get rid OP, best thing you could ever do, not just for yourself but to show your kids this is not how a happy couple behave, he sounds resentful, angry and I'd not even trust him tbh.

Hi there thanks for the replies again!

Misscph it's strange isn't it. When you go past the point of even wanting the affection and then they try to be nice. Horrible that you OH criticises you. My partner doesn't outwardly criticise me (Like my dad used to do to my mum) but you never know where you stand because he suppresses so much and won't even talk about the things that bother him. He says he just moves on easily but now and again it does get dragged up (usually in a drunken row!).

We have spoken a bit more the last couple of days... had couples counselling today and I just felt totally numb TBH. I told him last night that I didn't think I loved him anymore and today we talked about taking responsibility. I brought up all the historical stuff that bothers me and he can never give me any answers or apologies. Just says that he doesn't know or doesn't remember. So even now he's being nice but even in counselling is saying we've overcome worse before so doesn't know what the problem is....

I've already said:
Lack of affection/intimacy/connection.
Feeling unsupported at home e.g. Never cooking/cleaning/putting away his massive pile of washing/struggles to get garden/diy done.
Generally feeling like he's just not that bothered about stuff to do with me kids eg days out with them, not putting others first e.g. Like Mother's Day and my 30th birthday.
No resolution to previous scenarios that have upset me a lot over the years.
His anger when drunk, resulting in the slap, broken doors, smashed laptops etc (although now we don't really drink these things almost never happen now... one the other day when he smashed his laptop screen and tried to say it was my fault!!!) just makes u totally lose respect for someone.

I have some massive trust issues anyway after my ex, not in the cheating sense but in feeling emotionally safe.. I never know where I stand with partner. He said today he doesn't trust anyone!

Good luck with the journaling misscph.. I might try that. Am feeling a bit counselled out now TBH!!! I know what u mean about constantly delaying but I know we can't part this side of my sons birthday. It would take longer than that for him to find somewhere to live. Have another couples session in 2 weeks but my own session next week. Good luck with your summer, it's soooooo hard isn't it. Xxx

Thanks lurkingwithlove. It's crazy making isn't it. I think we must see things in very different ways because when we are talking about the same scenarios he doesn't understand why I feel the way I do. For eg in the beginning of our relationship he asked me if I'd prefer it if he stayed in a hotel when he went to visit his kids, I said that would make me feel more comfortable rather than him staying at exs house.. he stayed there anyway and couldn't understand why I was upset. Why ask me in the first place!!!?

Every baby I've had he's been straight on his laptop, then back to work in a matter of days. Never did the washing or cooking but fluffed around doing not much at all. If I raise it he just looks at me vacantly... like he thinks I'm mad.

He thinks I've got a negative filter on because of my depression. And still says he really doesn't understand what on earth is going on.

It is a very scary prospect to go through with the actual dumping. I do feel for him as he did say that he hated losing his family the first time around and he doesn't want to lose the kids.. said I wouldn't keep them away and would want them to have lots of contact and a positive relationship.

The thing is lurkingwithlove is that I have to communicate with him as we are in therapy with one of the goals to improve communication... and he has been talking more but isn't giving me the answers I need. Maybe I'm just really selfish! Or is it mind games? I just don't know. How long have you been on your own now lurkingwithlove? I feel like I really need to be on my own as I've practically been in a relationship since I was 15 years old!!!

Sorry I'm wordy lol xxx

Adora I know what you mean... I don't trust him because I've seen a really horrible side before in arguments (normally when drunk) and it worries me what's beneath the surface. Equally I question my own instincts because I've been in such a bad relationship before this and wonder if I'm just paranoid.

Partner always said he didn't remember the slap.. then yesterday said (miraculously) that he did remember now. We'd recently talked about it in therapy and he said that I was going mad so he slapped me just to snap me out of it... but hasn't apologised. We were having a mutual argument at the time is my memory... both being nasty but he definitely slapped me. And in the earlier days when he was really drunk I remember him pushing me over on to the bed after he'd pulled the door off it's hinges. He says he doesn't remember this. Problem is that it's all so long ago and he said that I'm living in the past and unable to move forward.

In today's day and age we are more ambivalent towards each other. Little communication, him on his laptop and I browse the internet searching for the meaning of life lol. We've spoken more in the last couple of days and potentially there is the capacity to talk more... but the early stuff still haunts me and the ongoing problems of getting him to engage in the house are such hard work... plus I don't want to be intimate with him.

Thanks so much for the support. Am finding it very helpful at what is a really difficult time xxx

Flying, is he like my DH, that he simply cannot imagine what it's like to be in you shoes? He literally can't see anything from your viewpoint?

It sounds like you want very different things from your marriage. You want intimacy, affection and support - what does he want? To me it sounds like he wants somewhere to live (!). If he is anything like my DH.

I have often felt like my DH was a very demanding lodger. I was running the show, he sat back and complained about the service. It has gotten better, but he still rarely shows any initiative.

It's easy for your DH to say that you are living in the past - it wasn't him who got slapped/pushed! How much do you feel that this affects your relationship? From how you describe it, it seems to me that you are able to isolate these events and put them down to drinking, and that the bigger issues for you is all the things you don't get in your daily life - attention, appreciations, support etc.

You are not selfish. You have been giving a lot in this relationship for a very long time, and now you have had enough.

Yes misscph it's felt like that on and off for a long time... trying to get him to empathise or see from my perspective has been near on impossible. He always makes it about me not understanding how stressed he is with his work and that he feels neglected because I make him feel guilty about the house/kids/relationship. I have ALWAYS said to him that he works hard and that I couldn't do his job but my point is that he doesn't congratulate me on my stressful job, rather it's treated quite insignificantly because it's not full time. Years ago when I took the job he agreed to do half a day of childcare a week. Never happened and he'd have a sulk or get angry if I asked him to cover me to go to a meeting (even though he wasn't even doing the half day)... because he was so busy.

I do think that some light seems to have gone on since yesterday and he wants to talk and cuddle and is desperate to sort this out. Suddenly saying he realises that his behaviour has made me feel the way I do. I just feel numb and don't really trust that this would last any longer than I took to get me to stay but maybe I'm just being pessimistic.

He has previously put loads of effort in when it's all hit the fan and we've been on the brink of splitting so it's not really anything that groundbreaking right now. Plus he now wants to cuddle me and TBH I know it sounds terrible but I just does not feel right at all. My body and brain do not want him near me right now.

I hope you manage to come to a resolution you are content with misscph. Your husband doesn't sound too dissimilar to mine although mine has the ability to pull out his most redeeming features when things get really bad and it makes me question everything. On this basis I find it v hard to trust him.

With regards to what bothers me I do feel that the violence incidents were wrong but I accept that we were quite volatile back then and we were very very drunk. But the lack of taking responsibility is what freaks me out as I think it's all too convenient to say you don't remember and then suddenly remember... to me it points to a shady character. Plus to never give any explanation as to the motives behind certain behaviours, lack of ability to respond at times what I've REALLY needed support. My brain then just tells me he's not a very nice person, which doesn't match up with the kind, loving and almost innocent side in seeing now and have seen at times during the relationship.

I can't be bothered to think anymore and feel like I need a break from him. Told him last night that I had found myself attracted to others and this has upset him, but I just wanted to be honest that 1. Without feeling loved, supported, desired etc it's bound to happen and that realistically there is strong potential for me to dump him and start having hot sex elsewhere hahaha.

Misscph hope you get through it all ok. How often does your husband criticise? Is it so intrinsically part of him that he doesn't know he's doing it? Xxx

I know what you mean with the focus being on HIS hard job, and how your job and everything you will never measure up to this!

It sounds like you have managed to tell your DH what you want, and that he does understand it, or is at least trying to. I can understand why it's hard to believe that he is being genuine, as you are so used to the opposite.

Re the violence/drunkenness, perhaps he is really quite embarrassed about it and that's why he doesn't always remember it? I have personally almost forgotten some fairly nasty things I have said to DH in the past, and I am sure that is a coping mechanism on my part.

Have you thought about having a period of separation? Asking him to move out for a couple of months to see what some distance could do? My DF moved away from his wife for a year, and it seems to have done them both a world of good.

About the criticising, I am not sure how often, it just seems small things daily, and I have become hyper sensitive I think. It's less at the moment, but I think it's because I try to avoid engaging with him. But still, it doesn't really work when he is being positive and saying nice things, as I can't really enjoy it - it's like a drop in the ocean.

I had my last counselling session today, and the counsellor is going to e-mail me a transactional analysis questionnaire that she thought might help me work with my reactions patterns and it sounds really interesting. I had a little Google, and I came up with this, I have only skimmed it: www.businessballs.com/transact.htm but perhaps you either already know it, or perhaps it would be useful to you.

PS Good for you if you are feeling attracted to other men - can't say I do, but I think I am really off men at the moment!

Yes I wondered whether he may have blocked certain things out. I know that I have done this in relation to stressful events when my mum and dad were splitting up. However there is a general theme of not remembering things, not taking responsibility or ever admitting fault. I have deflected things in anger sometimes but in more recent years I am much more self aware and authentic and try to take responsibility for my actions. My partner moans about his work force but again doesn't reflect on his role in managing them. He hates conflict and is quite avoidant I think but any time I express my view it doesn't seem to be respected. I worry that there is a general mistrust of women and a definite agenda to resist anything perceived as control... be it opinion, requests for time etc... but it's suppressed and normally comes out in angry outbursts esp if drunk.

He was trying to be loving yesterday and I have been honest and said it does not feel right and I can't force it as that makes me feel internally weird, plus having been in a domestically violent relationship it taps into feel overpowered and controlled and if I'm not feeling it I don't want to have to fake it.

Sound like your experiences with your husband have caused a general mistrust in him as well and it must just feel odd to get a compliment! My partner just doesn't seem to notice a lot, e.g. Cooking, household job, if I look nice etc. It's like being invisible at times. His dad is like this with him mum and she just accepts it, I find it horrifying!!

Thank you for the TA questionnaire I am going to take a look at it. I hope the last counselling session went well and I think a break is probably a good idea, as it is likely that you've covered as much as you can in the current circumstances..maybe it's time for some reflection.

I'm finding that I'm starting to enjoy my own company a lot and I think this worries my partner as he's turning on the charm but I haven't responded.

I was so surprised to find myself attracted to others because for ages, with the lack of connection in the relationship, plus having the kids, I literally felt like a shell of a women. Operating simply on a practical level. I had a crush for a year in this guy who was very attractive and he told me about the family days out he would go on and cooking for his family at the weekends. I know that it's only a representation of the ideal but it shook my so much that I wasn't completely mad for wanting more out of a relationship. Xxx

Sorry I've had to jump to the end of your thread without reading it all to say...

You're not in a better position financially - he is though. You're not married and you are legally, therefore financially, very vulnerable.

He seems to have selective amnesia - he doesn't remember hitting you, pushing you (ripping doors off...); doesn't remember to do the postage size lawn, basic chores, his washing... It could be that he considers this woman's work, beneath him (but not beneath you...).

He seems very focused on appearing the good guy and father in public. But not in private. When noones watching... Only you! And you don't count

I think he is a passive abuser. Hence your confusion: it's it me? He'll big up your part in it - depressed, anti depressants, counselling - to distract you from the scent. He won't want to get found out, he'll hide it, even from himself.

I definitely think your depression etc is largely down to your current relationship. You are wilting away from neglect.

Dearest Flying, I do think you are at the end, you have had some hard realisations and you are being incredibly mature/objective/responsible about it.

I think that like me you are at a point where it doesn't matter who's fault it is any more, that's no longer the point, the point is that it's over.

I have come to realise that even if my DH has been a sht, my part has been that I have allowed it. It was too hard to keep standing my ground, to keep insisting, it was easier to do it all myself and to to be so emotionally under nourished. I was afraid to be even more rejected. I am realising that the reason I didn't stand up more for myself was that it was too hard, that I wasn't ready to end the marriage as a consequence. Also I kept dreaming that one day, when the DC weren't little, when money wasn't so tight, it would be better. But the DC are bigger now and we don't have as many money worries and it's still sht. Of course things don't change unless you change them, but I just don't want to even try now. I have left it too long. It's been hard to admit to myself.

Hi springy thanks for your reply.
Yes I know financially I'm not in the best position but on the plus side we don't own any assets together so there would be no division of anything or divorce process to stress over. He has his business which TBH he has worked hard for (but so have I in supporting him to do it!) and I know I have no legal interest in that.. I have about 10k in savings in my name, plus another 7k which I've saved for the kids (in their bank accounts) which he'd have no right to. I guess we'd just have to agree on maintenance payments and I work plus I could claim for tax credits I think?

I think you've hit the nail on the head with how I'm feeling.. it's like the relationship makes me second guess myself all the time. When I have asked for help in the past it has been literally impossible. He would respond abruptly or express annoyance. Said he didn't need to be reminded and if I said it nicely he'd tell me I was condescending. Another time I was leaving the house and had been busy doing stuff and asked him to finish off a job (dishes or something?).. anyway he told me that if the roles were reversed, e.g. The man telling the woman what to do, that would be categories as abuse!!! I literally laughed so much at what he'd said as I'd just asked him nicely to do a job, that's it!! How is that abuse?

Just realised that he rarely asks me how my day is.

I do feel like I've been neglected by him but it's so hard to get your head around because you start to feel that maybe it's normal. I don't think he knows how to be a supportive and responsive person. His parents have the most business like relationship there is, I've never seen them cuddle in 12 years! His dad plays golf and watches tv, his mum does everything at home... diy, sanding floors, cleaning, cooking etc (even when she was working and he was retired). The level of conversation is always quite simplistic and indeed in my relationship we never really discuss gritty matters such as politics or some of the ins and outs of my job which can be stressful. He doesn't vote and says what's the point, also never ever recycles anything!

I could see us turning into his parents and it scared the life out of me. His dad literally never compliments his mum but does criticise. She nearly fell of her chair once when he said the dinner was good, as it's such a rarity.

Before Mother's Day I would make him daily porridge that he liked with all different toppings, would make his packed lunches and always planned nice meals. I have to ask him if he liked his dinner to get any kind of a response. When it really annoyed me he would sometimes remember but it wasn't natural for him. Same if I got dressed up to go out, would rarely get a compliment unless I asked. I know these things aren't the end of the world but it just makes me feel so invisible, In addition to the other stuff I've talked about.

It was actually only a few months ago that he punched a hole in our newly painted lounge door, I can't remember what it was over. He filled the hole but hasn't bothered to repaint the door (which is painted grrrrrr)..

Am reading on emotional neglect now it's v interesting. Thanks springy xxx

Hi misscph,
Am trying to be mature about it all but in reality I'm no further along the separation process, maybe in my head though so that's a good thing I think. Although I do feel guilt at not putting the effort in to change things. Realistically I'm not going to ask or nag and see where it goes as I need to see how he is when not prompted. Tonight I've made all the cups of tea, he's not even offered, read to the kids and put them to bed and moved his pile of washing as cleaner is coming tomorrow.

Misscph does your husband know you've come to the end and it's only a matter of time? We are very aloof tonight, both working on our laptops and not saying much. Our 8 year old (who is v sensitive) is really acting up at the moment and he's even more insecure than usual. I'd had time with him, reading, cuddling etc but he was pushing it and kept getting out of bed. Partner stormed past me when I didn't get up saying that we should split up so he doesn't have to deal with our 'mental child' anymore. Ds1 also got really upset with partner earlier today when it was time to leave the park and told partner that he just wants him to leave our family.. so it's really affecting him and partner is obviously feeling alienated, but he doesn't make a massive effort to sit down with him at the end of the day and give him some time.

Do your children pick up on the problems? Hope you're ok. I'm just wondering how on earth we are going to get through the summer! Xxx

Do you have to get through the summer?

Start looking at properties perhaps?

Your son is suffering. I'm not milking it here, this is the reality. There is no reason why you couldn't get the ball rolling right now.

You'll be so glad you did! Once the fog has lifted and you reaquaint yourself with lovely, normal, calm, expansive life..

Have you done the Freedom Programme btw. Please do. Look at their site, click ' find a course ' for courses near you. Go!

You'll be glad you did.

Oh goodness the freedom programme.. no I haven't done it myself but I know of the programme through my job. After my previous relationship I just tried to get back to normal.. always a bit of a conflict as I had a good job in psychology but my personal life was in absolute tatters and I left that area of work as I was a mess TBH. Have looked at the graphic and think that my partner falls into the liar and the bully (mostly when really drunk though but he can really sulk at times).

I feel really awful for our son. I am working with the school on the matter and they are putting in some additional support for him plus I'm trying to spend special time with him each night but I haven't actually told him that mummy and daddy aren't getting on as I don't have any definitive answers for him at the moment.

Me and partner are supposed to be talking but it's v frosty tonight. Not sure how to get the ball rolling on separation as there is so much going on. The tenancy finishes here in late august and I was going to (over the next couple of weeks) recommend that I take the tenancy on on my own for the next year. I don't want to uproot the kids and he has said that he's been looking at other properties but can't find anything (he's going to have to be realistic and rent somewhere he can actually afford but knowing him he'll saddle himself up with an extravagant place that will cost a bomb). However he talks about it but in no way thinks it's going to happen and in the past has just refused to leave so I'm trying to navigate this properly. I'd really like to stay here with the kids as it feels like home and I think the less disruption for them the better.

I know it seems silly but there is so much going on over the summer that I feel reluctant to split (we have a holiday booked with friends which I'm thinking maybe we should just cancel but the kids are so excited ... esp ds1). Thanks springy for your help.

I think that emotional neglect was pretty spot on... plays with your mind because you can't overtly say what is bad because it's all about omission xxx

Going along to the Freedom Programme is imo much more powerful and effective than reading about it. Obviously, reading about it is a great start but being there in person is transformative imo. It's a new normal - a viable new normal - that works and makes compete sense: you see the dross you've been living with, been increasingly crushed under, and it's clear you don't have to any more. It also breaks the isolation that is a characteristic of abusive relationships...

Bcs I do suspect he's a lot more abusive than you currently realise.