Suddenly finding myself at the end, after 12 years?

[Flyingmoonpig]

Hello there,

I have been a long term lurker and have never posted! Thought I'd give it a shot and see if anybody might be able to offer any guidance. I feel lost TBH.

Myself and my partner have been together for 12 years and we have three children (8, 5 and 3). My partner is 11 years older than me and also has 2 children from when he was married.

Our relationship had a fairly unsteady start... lots of drinking & taking drugs together, me struggling to get used to dating a man with children, ex wife, controlling mother etc. We were taken with each other right away but life was complicated.

We broke up 2 years into our relationship because he didn't want anymore children and I did, this had been a big source of conflict and we agreed to split. He came back to me saying he'd changed his mind and that he would love to have children with me so after a period of time we got back together.. lots of drama after I'd slept with someone else while we were apart.

Anyway we carried on as usual, going out at the weekends, went on holiday then found out I was pregnant. 1st child born in 2008 (who was very hard work!).

I was studying at the time which made becoming a parent really tough. Other half had lost his home to repossession and was facing bankruptcy. We were skint, stressed & miserable. When he was 2 I accidentally got pregnant after contraception failure and had an ectopic pregnancy, then a few months later I had severe dyskariosis of the cervix.

I had started working and partner had started up a business which was not paying him any money, also stressful. I found myself pregnant again (planned this time) later in the year and had another child in 2012. Found myself pg again when ds2 was 1!!! Bit of a shock but I was happy, partner was not and questioned paternity!

Anyway his business has picked up and for the last few years he has taken wages, I supported household for three years with the help of tax credits prior to this though. It was a v hard time.

We've had some lovely times but a lot of our socialising has centred on drinking (plus drugs in the early days but not for a long time now). I was very insecure from the start because of ex wife and I had just come out of a very abusive relationship which I had no way healed from.

After being v lovely at first OH would change at times, uncommunicative, and inconsistent. If we argued when drunk he would break stuff or hit doors, once he slapped me round the face (but we were both drunk and I was being horrid). He reeled me in but would act sometimes completely disinterested, turning down sex and being very unaffectionate.

There has been a lot of selfish behaviour over the years such as leaving me to wet baby's head after C section, siding with his family over things e.g. When his sister wanted to stay over after I'd had csection and I said only for a night and she got upset.. he had a go at me, doing what he wants to do when he wants to do it e.g. Working all hours, nights out etc.

Perhaps none of these sound that bad but I just find that I feel pretty lonely. He's not outwardly horrible to me and can be really lovely at times. He's v sociable and all his friends and family love him. However in the relationship he doesn't really talk to me, works all the time, and does not help around the house at all. There is no affection between us and this has been absent for years.. in the early days I used to cuddle him and he just acted like he felt awkward, over time it's just started to feel weird.

It's like nothing's that bad that I can say there is a concrete reason but a gradual drip feed of stressful circumstances and me feeling quite unsupported and unappreciated over the years has led me to feel like I've fallen out of love.

Mother's Day was the worse and it's all come to a head since then, am on antidepressants, counselling and couples counselling. We talk in couples counselling but at home he just gets cross if I try and raise a difficult matter or just stares at the tv to avoid it!! He hates me asking him to do anything round the house and said that he works so hard and I don't appreciate what he does do. I also work 30 hours a week in a stressful job and am struggling. I know he is too because his business is really stressful.

It's hard to know how much of my depression is down to the relationship and how much is my own stuff but I am working through this in counselling.. but I just keep coming to the conclusion that we are not a good match. I feel like I'm growing spiritually and in my self understanding and also coming to terms with the abuse from the past but I don't feel like I want to share this with him because he doesn't get me and I've always had a gut feeling deep deep down that it's not right although for quite a while I did think he was my soul mate and we got engaged. However the wedding planning stopped and started and has now halted and my engagement ring has come off now!!

Just wondered what other people would do in this situation? He's not a bad man but is intrinsically selfish without even realise, was moddycoddled by his mum and is crap at communication. I'm probably no walk in the park either but I am trying my best. We have three young children and are being civil to each other. I feel like giving up!

Sorry it's long if you got that far!!!! Summarising 12 years is hard lol thanks for reading xxx

Urgh just posting as I need to vent... can't bloody sleep again and am on the sofa downstairs as he is now back at home.

He keeps asking if it's salvageable and that he really doesn't understand what's going on. Said that his friends also think I must be having an affair. I reminded him of our conversation this morning and how even the things that he's said in the last few days have repulsed me to my stomach that without everything else I can't come back from it.

I talked about my concern about his anger but he just belittled it, saying everyone hits things in arguments and it's pretty normal.. said his friends couldn't see what the problem was because ds1 was being so naughty and sometimes people just lose it.

I asked him to reflect on the reasons why his marriage ended and he looked really confused. I asked if he thought there may be a pattern and that maybe he needs to work on something's in himself. He said he didn't think it would help.

Then said if he is going to lose everything, if he had the guts he would kill himself. I reminded him about the children that love and need him?? He said maybe it's best for everyone.

After the rape my ex sat in a bath for about 6 hours with a razor blade and put a note on the door telling me not to come in. I know current circumstances aren't this severe but it's all eerily similar.

He still wants 50/50 custody... the man who has never prepared a packed lunch, washed a school uniform or prepared a family meal, plus completely ignored us a great deal of the time and add in the occasional angry outburst resulting in something being destroyed/damaged. He makes my skin crawl just looking at him. He thinks I am way overly dramatic about it all and that I've had an epiphany (which I have had I suppose) and am now trying to eradicate him from our lives. I just don't want to be his partner anymore but also have concerns about his competency as a responsible father given the way he's managed contact with his other children and how uninterested and inconsistent he can be here.

Sorry to rant again, just had to write my thoughts down xxx

Hi flying sorry to reply so late bit difficult getting free time at the moment.

It's late so I hope you're getting some rest. It must be exhausting being in so much emotional stress and upheaval.

I know I'm repeating myself but you do need to value yourself more. All that guilt needs to go. You were a victim of such awful abuse, I was so sad to read your last post. When your ds1 was little you most likely had some kind of ptsd. You were unsupported and trying to do so much all at once when you probably needed a break and for someone to take care of you.
I'm more than convinced that you've been a great parent and are repairing the attachment issues now. Please be kinder to yourself. You try so hard to understand everyone around you and give them all so much energy, when really it's you who needs to be listened to and cared for.

So time to drop the guilt and to focus on yourself. The only person who should feel any guilty is your ex. And now your partner. He has taken advantage of your good nature, knowing fine well what you'd been through, and is now trying to manipulate you into taking him back by playing the victim. You and your DC deserve so much better. I wish I had the magic words to help you turn your attention inwards and withdraw your emotions from him, to protect yourself and children from all of his issues. He clearly has things to work out with his mother but you need to stop at that conclusion. He needs to sincerely face that himself, otherwise he'll never stop with the angry episodes and alcohol. He's not being genuinely kind to you. That's enough reason to leave and to stop trying to get your head round it.

As for the custody issue, I'd advise taking a neutral gentle approach (for your own good) so not trying to convince him of anything or struggle over it. Maybe say that you'll build up gradually to shared custody to get the DC used to it. You can then see whether he can do even one night or not and in the meantime get legal advice so that if things don't work out you can get a custody arrangement in place that better suits the DC and is official. Whatever you decide, always bring the subject of the conversation back to their needs. Don't let him guilt you into anything or threaten you. Log any threats so you can tell the lawyer.

The short version of this is that it sounds like you have the same weak spot as me: taking on too much guilt. I learned the hard way that this left me vulnerable to manipulation and I really don't want you to have to put up with this any more, it's just not fair. You deserve a genuinely kind partner, not one who can turn on the good behaviour when things are going his way/he's sober. Just that in itself is so damaging.

Hope you have a good night's sleep

Well said, lurking!

Flying, you have definitely had an epiphany, you are now seeing things more clearly. I am sure that you have been excusing him and ignored things and just been getting on with things.

Here is an Andy Warhol quote I have been thinking about a lot lately: "When people are ready to, they change. They never do it before then, and sometimes they die before they get around to it. You can't make them change if they don't want to, just like when they do want to, you can't stop them."

You have changed your perspective, and there is no stopping you now!

Hi flying, hope you finally got some sleep.

I didn't see your very last post last night, must have been writing when you sent it. How awful. He's showing you who he really is and you need to get away from him. I'm glad he makes your skin crawl, that's a healthy, normal reaction.

You can't have your DC around someone like that. Trying to bring his friends into it to back up his opinion is so typical of a manipulator. He's trying to control you. Same goes for the allusion to suicide, pure manipulation. I really hope you don't fall for it. What a nasty piece of work.

You're right to want to protect the DC. Have you done the freedom programme it's supposed to really help. And if you haven't done so already, the Lundy Bancroft books Why does he do that? and Should I stay or should I go? are both very helpful.

I think it's time to gently end all this. Stick to the facts if you have to talk to him. No JADE remember (justifying, arguing, defending or explaining your position). I know you're empathic and it's hard not to want to explain, which is fine with normal people, but it doesn't work with abusers I'm afraid. It just helps them hook you again through guilt.

And he is emotionally abusive. Who cares what his friends think? If it's even true that they do agree with him then he's chosen to surround himself with people just as bad as him. It is absolutely not normal to break things in front of a child in anger, to frighten them into submission, it's abusive and unacceptable, even as a one off.

Yes, children can be frustrating and drive you up the wall at times but you can always go and scream outside/in the bathroom or, better, tell them your angry but not act violently to set an example. He's very messed up if he believes his own excuses.
And that's only one example of his abusiveness. The way he's been treating you is twisted and unacceptable too.

Got to go now but keep posting you're doing so well and coming to the right conclusions. Trust yourself, you can do it x

Hi misscph x-post...that's a great quote I'll be noting that one down!

You are wasting your time trying to get him to see that he's at fault and needs to work on himself.

People have a limited amount of energy. You have a lot that will take your energy over the next few weeks. Surely you can't afford to still be wasting energy trying to make him change, make him understand your point of view, make him agree that you are right? Maybe focus on the children and yourself for a while, making a point of ignoring his opinion and his wellbeing?

Also, his contact with his last family tells you how it will go with your children. He won't touch 50:50. He just doesn't want to pay. You could probably get him to back down by asking him to draw up a contact schedule to include term time and holidays, arrangements for clubs, laundry, sports kits, their birthdays, haircuts, dentist, friends' birthdays, lunch boxes, days when a child is sick, which items does he wish to buy for his own place for the children and which does he expect them to carry between houses, what does he propose for drop off and pick up?. I'm sure you can make a great list.

Tell him to make a proposal for how he wants to handle all that with 50:50. You can say it very nicely like how wonderful it is that he wants to be actively involved in the children's lives after you split and you look forward to hearing his suggestions. Make sure you put your request for his proposal in writing by email. Make sure it reads well for when it is read in court to explain that lack of contact is down to his unreasonableness / lack of any practical interest, not yours.

Hello again, flying, you are getting some great advice form other posters.

I just thought I'd add a few more thoughts - I have had some realisations in the last few hours, as I just had "the talk" with my DH, basically he asked if we could talk about splitting up after he had asked me in the weekend if I had come to any conclusions (backstory: I said I wanted a divorce back in April, then I started counselling (on my own) and for a while I had a bit of a wobble and we agreed to talk again after the summer), and I said that I had, that I still wanted a divorce, but that we could talk in the week when kids were at school. So we did this morning, a very short, practical talk about what happens going forward. He has completely withdrawn and does not want to talk about what went wrong in the marriage. I am quite uset by this, and that is part of the problem, that my DH is so emotionally withdrawn (and really has no interest in me), but I do see his point - if we are to do this amicable, then we should avoid rowing and blaming, as it leads nowhere. It's time to look ahead and stop looking back. Perhaps this can inspire you? It's hard work, but try to stick to the basic, practical details, don't let yourself by drawn into a "blaming fight", it will take you nowhere.

What Runrabbit says is very true, but it takes two to keep it amicable, and it's going to require a lot of energy for you to be "detached", but it is really the only way, and much less energy consuming than fighting and rowing - think of the transactional analysis I mentioned upthread, try to remain in an adult role, avoid reacting like a child or a parent.

Oh my goodness thank you Lurking. I do feel really guilty about everything, especially my anger in the past. DS1 and I are really close at the moment and he asked me not to marry daddy the other day. We are spending lots of time together reading and cuddling and its really nice (the relationship not the current situation!). DS2 and DD1 seem quite unaffected by it all.. they are really happy most of the time and play really nicely together and with me – however I know they’re living in a toxic environment and its not healthy.

Last night was awful. I got about 2.5 hours sleep all in all and kept waking up in absolute terror and panic. This situation is bringing up all of the previous trauma and fear and last night I just felt like I was going to be attacked. I haven’t done the freedom programme but am going to when I can get my head around everything I need to do. I know he’s trying to manipulate as its all just too close to home from my ex and this is very unnerving.

I just find it so sad because he can be so nice but I realise that this is lost amidst all the negative stuff. He’s so inconsistent in the things he says and his actions and I have discovered that I’ve actually gone for a man just like my angry and abusive father – only with slightly more redeeming nice qualities which have kept me hopeful for so long. Its totally unacceptable for him to behave in the way that he does and it has played with my mind so much because I always thought my gut feeling was because of me – because of my inability to trust after my abusive ex and that I needed to sort my head out and see that the relationship was ok – when in fact deep down it just wasn’t. Can’t believe we have been together for 12 years.

I came to work and had an emotional meltdown with some of my closest colleagues and we talked through the whole situation. They full on are saying exactly what you are saying and I then decided to phone the ex partner. I asked him if he is able to leave the home. He was being very nice (had met his friend) and said that he could go and stay with another mutual friend tonight if needed. He was very very reasonable about it and I agreed that he will go tonight. When I get home from work we are going to tell the children that mummy and daddy aren’t getting along and that he’s going to go and stay with his friend for a while. I’m then going to take the children out while he packs a bag and leaves the house.

So it is actually all happening and I feel RELIEVED!!!

Miss CPH thank you for the quote – that is absolutely spot on – there is literally no going back from this. I am moving forward with my life and I am going to be strong and never find myself in this situation EVER again.

Runrabbit – I didn’t want to waste my energy but he just keeps asking me the same questions over and over again and I was trying to explain my stance. I don’t want him to try and change to fit in with what I’m saying the problems are – for the reasons of the Andy Warhol quote! He is actually going tonight and hasn’t mentioned anything further about care arrangements for the children at this stage. He seems to have retreated back into his reasonable and nice corner for now so I’ll let him lick his wounds and go from there I guess. He asked about seeing the kids and I said he could come over on Wednesday after school if he wanted. Whilst its so raw I’m not going to discuss anything in more detail – just get through the next couple of weeks while he stays with the friend and then when he has a property look at it in more detail.
I cannot believe that I am actually single and he is leaving tonight. I feel less anxious although am worried about talking to the children. I do feel like a weight has been lifted however but also like a bunny caught in the headlights and quite shocked.

Thank you all so much for the replies.. you have really helped to open my eyes up to this relationship and all of the problems within it. I am shit scared about the next chapter of my life but know that moving forward is the only option I have.

Thanks again ladies much love to all of you. I’ll report back tonight once hes gone and the kids are in bed xxxxxxx

Thanks missCPH just saw your other message.. So have you agreed on splitting now then? Thank you so much for your advice it has been so helpful. I think you're right about not getting embroiled in all of the blaming and unpicking of what went wrong. I think we can only do this individually as we both see it quite differently. I very much doubt that he is going to seek support but I'll continue with my counselling for a bit longer I think. I hope that your plans to separate move forward as smoothly as possible - its so traumatic isn't it, I am emotionally and physically drained xxx

Hi well done for you. I've been there; this is just the start of a whole lot of emotions and hurt but stick with it you will come out stronger xx

Flying, that is great news! That's a huge step! I think sometimes people just need to have an initial reaction, and then they think about it and come to some conclusions themselves. I know that it has been very hard for you, but it can't have been easy for your DP either. It's hard to let go!

Yes, we agreed about splitting. I then rang my sister and had a good cry, but over all I am quite calm.

My cousin split from her DH of more than 25 years last year, 4 kids, 2 of them grown-up, one teenager and one preteen. No one in the family knows why, not that it really matters, and to begin with it was very amicable - until he started dating my cousin's best friend! I sincerely believe that I will never be attracted to another man again, and my DH has previously said that he is never going to even look at another women again as we are all crazy ;) but it made me think that even with the best of intentions (and my cousins marriage was one of those rock-solid marriages), most breakups will require a lot of will-power and thinking of the children to keep it amicable. Just be careful, and really think about your decisions re arrangements, get all the advice you can etc.

Personally I don't really know where to begin, and I doubt that much will happen in the next 6 months, we have both agree that there is no rush. We can't afford to make too many wrong decisions about living arrangements. I am a little bit worried as DH also asked if I really thought I was the right parent for the children to live with, but I chose to just say yes and not react - him questioning my parenting skills is far from new, but we have in spite of everything managed to raise 2 very bright and lovely children who have never had any massive issues in school with friends etc.

Re your oldest, I really think he will be fine. It's a very difficult time for him, but don't forget that he is confiding in you and he is trusting you in showing his emotions. Those are signs of a healthy child, and what he is going through at the moment, you are supporting him and looking after him, and he will get over it because you are there for him. We all feel guilty as parents because we are not perfect, but we do the best we can. The empathy you are showing him will go a long way. Being heard is so important, and you are doing that.

Thank you misscph I hope you're ok... I'm in bed with ds1 after a very emotional evening. Lots of tears and I am so exhausted! Will post in more detail tomorrow, going to attempt sleep now. Xxx

Hi **misscph... Oh my goodness it just just so hard.. I was surprised that he was so rational about it, probably helped to talk to his friend (who has a load of problems with an alcoholic wife and 3 young children)..

I hope you feel better now that you and your husband have come to an agreement.. I hope your cousin is coming through it ok. Ongoing stresses of a split must be really hard esp if he's now with her best friend? That's so hurtful on all sides.

It's good if you can keep things calm and civil whilst making your plans.. unfortunately things just got to nasty here to be able to do that. Plus my ex partner needs clear boundaries otherwise he thinks it's all going to be ok and we'll come through it!

Ds1 cried when he was told and him and his dad had a cuddle. I then took the kids out for a bit while ex partner packed some stuff (helpfully leaving his massive washing pile grrrr). Ds1 seemed ok then would start crying and getting angry. He said that he's ordering that daddy must move back home and that he's going to make the rules up himself. His little face showed so much emotion and he just looked so broken. However we spoke all evening about break ups, and experience when I was growing up and how we want to make this much better for them.. explained that mummy and daddy can't live together because we don't get on but that they will still see daddy and can phone/FaceTime and text whenever he wants. Ds1 seems reassured with this but is angry saying that I'd lied to him, that I said we'd never split up (which I have not said but obviously his dreams have just been crushed.

He stayed in with me last night and ex partner is coming over later to see them. I know it's early but ds1 in particular really needs that reassurance that daddy is still there for him.

I do feel amazed at ds1s capacity to express emotion and I think that's really healthy.. as difficult as the situation it. Ds2 and dd1 haven't really noticed if I'm honest right now but ds2 said that he'd miss daddy bless him.

Maybe got about 5 hours sleep last night but I am shattered and can't believe there's a whole day ahead!!

Thanks again xxxx

Oh, your poor DS1, it must be so hard!

I remember clearly when my parents announced that my DF was moving out, I was so upset, even though I was a teen. I felt totally betrayed by him, as he was leaving us (me and my younger sister) with my DM who at the time (and for the next 10 years) was very angry, depressed and aggressively defensive most of the time (my DF had been unfaithful to her and they had spent 5 years trying to make it work before he moved out).

I think no mater how you announce the split up, it's going to be really hard for your DC. But that is short term pain, long term it is better for everybody. As parents we have to be look at the long term for everyone involved, it's a heavy burden, but there is no escaping it.

I agree with you, it's really good that your DS1 is expressing his emotions, it's a very important skill, and well done for you allowing him to express it and hearing him. I had none of that when my parents split up, and although I am fine with both of them now, I have had a really bad relationship with my DM for years. It's taken many years to get over it, and even now i am terrified of putting my DC through the same. But it's not the same situation and I am not like my mum in that respect - something I have to keep reminding myself of!

You have been so strong, I am really impressed with you! Do you have someone who can be your shoulder to cry on? Like RunRabbit points out, people have a limited amount of energy. Look after yourself xx

Hi misscph..
Finally got the time to post!!! It doesn't sound like your parents' split was conducted in a healthy manner at all.. at a time when you needed your mum to help you through her pain she was too pained by everything that had happened to be able to help. I think that parental splits during adolescence can be really difficult.

My parents split was an absolute disaster (as was their relationship!). I was 14 or 15 when the broke up. My dad was (is) a mysoginistic controlling alcoholic who used violence to control us (but most of all my poor brother who got literally beaten up when he was naughty).. my mum was vulnerable and totally controlled by my dad.
She ended up having an affair and left my dad but it was a terrible split and he threatened to kill himself in front of me.. awful arguments etc. Anyway she got away and he diddled her out of loads of money and we as teenagers were pretty much abandoned and left to make our way through life with no real guidance or support.

I picked ds1 up from school today and I spoke to the teachers again, asked how he'd been (told them this morning about their dad moving out). They said he's actually been remarkable.. he spoke to them about what's happened and his feelings then said that he wanted to tell his class, they asked him if he was sure and he said yes. He said to the class that his mummy and daddy have split up but that it's ok because he knows that other children have been through it and it's going to be ok!!!!! He then spoke to the teachers again afterwards. The teachers were completely blown away by him and he has been in such a good place tonight it's unreal. He normally has rituals around his toys, where they need to be etc but last night and tonight he's just cuddled his two new Pokemon s and that's it... all his usual ones are still in his bed. We danced around the front room to ed sheeran tonight and felt so free it was absolutely amazing!!!

Ds2 bless his little heart still seems fairly oblivious and dd1 was quite tearful today. However, their dad came round as planned and spent time with them and that seems to have settled everyone down. We again said that he's going back to our friends house but they will see him tomorrow as planned.

He tried to talk to me about it all and I said that conversation needs to take place without the kids around perhaps meet for coffee in town. He looked upset when ds2 asked him if he still loves him and asked me what he should do... I told him that he needs to offer love and reassurance, that they are confused children who need to know that we both still love them... he then referred to himself as a confused child.

He looks like he's having a bit of a penny dropping moment and said he is going to seek therapy... but the main motivation is to work towards us having a good relationship. I told him that his priority has to be his own motivation to work on himself to become a better person and unless it really means something to him then it's pointless.

Anyway he left thank the lord and then me and ds1 had a lovely evening. I don't want to get embroiled in ex partners crap now... lovely if he wants to start exploring his own twatishness but it's something he needs to do on his own. However I am mindful that there is the potential for nastiness/revenge when he realises that after his stay with friends he is still not coming back here.. I've told him to look for somewhere to live but I think he's clinging onto hope that he can show willing to change and then I'll have him back and work on it all with him.... NO WAY!!!!!

I've got some really lovely friends actually. One just came back into my life today (must be fate) after not seeing each other for 3 years (no malice just life taking over and losing touch) and that was fab.. really good bunch of school mum friends, lovely cousin and other friends as well. A really close friend who lives far away has held my hand via text and call throughout the last three months (since the start of my breakdown). Even my mum bless her with all her problems, she's finally seeing ex partner for what he is and is behind me 100%.

Thanks sooooooo much. Really hope you're ok misscph... I am feeling strong, and scared lol xxxxx

Oh, Flying, your parent's divorce sounds so traumatic! Sounds like your mum and brother suffered the most, although you must have suffered a lot too. Teenage years are a very fragile period, it must have been really hard to go through those years alone. But you sound so together and thoughtful in your posts, you have really come out strong!

I am so impressed to hear about your DS1's school, amazing that they can provide this kind of support through such a difficult time for him! This is how all schools should be! I am taking notes, as I have decided that when we tell the DC, I will also tell the school.

I am also really impressed that your DP is beginning to understand, that is such a huge step for him and also for your dynamics going forward. I am very hopeful for you!

I think you are very right about not becoming embroiled in your ex partners problems, it will just suck you in, you need to maintain a distance. And there probably is a real risk of him becoming angry or revengeful when he truly realises the implications of no longer living with you. But again, those are things that he has to deal with himself, and not dump on you.

Over here DS has been home since yesterday with a sore tummy (quite minor) and DD is away on camp. Things are amicably with DH, but every now and again there will be moments where I can feel the bubbling resentment in both of us, it's always there ready to explode. I am so unhappy that the past is still so present for both of us, we both carry such huge grudges. I never thought I would give up, but I simply don't feel that it is worth fighting for anymore, none of us want the other one enough, we have worn the relationship out. Also I am worried about the financial aspects of splitting up. I hate worrying about money, we have had some periods in the past where we were so poor, and I really had hoped I would never be in that place again. But I have to keep telling myself that it's different now, I can work more as the DC are older (I am a freelance translator working from home) and that it will be okay. I have said to DH that we need to start saving (for new living arrangements) and he agreed - unfortunately like everything this will be down to me, and I will be to blame if there is not enough.

Ah thanks MissCPH yes their divorce was very traumatic. My dad is the most unreasonable narrow minded man in the world and he tried every tactic to get my mum to stay - being nice, making threats, manipulation etc. He'd moved out at one point to stay with a friend and then decided to come home in the middle of the night and literally pulled her out of the bed by her feet and told her he was back and wouldn't be going anywhere. Shortly after that my mum moved out into a caravan in the middle of the winter and said she came really close to suicide then - how awful!

With this in mind I am very mindful that ex partner is still trying to be extra nice and is telling me that he's not giving up on us, not listening when I'm saying its over - says he wants hope that we can be happy together as a family again. I reiterated that he needs to deal with own stuff for his own benefit of him and to be a better parent. That we both need to be on our own - then he turned on the anger and said I'm giving up on 12 years and three kids 'when its all about to change'. So he's starting on the anger now - it just keeps going in cycles - am sure he's convinced himself that he can stay at his mates for 2 weeks then come back!!!

He still has keys to the house obviously and is on the tenancy agreement so realistically he can just come back at anytime and I'm anxious about this as the kids are already so much happier - not one of them has even needed their comfort toys/blankets at bedtime or for preschool/school!

I think that he does want to change but the motivation is only if we are together and thats not right. I asked him if he has the times to look at properties and he just said that no one has called him back. So he'll likely get to the end of the two weeks and then just come back here :(

I really hope you manage to start formulating a plan for moving on - I think you know when its not worth fighting for and it sounds like you're both walking on eggshells to keep the peace but there is a huge undercurrent of resentment. Do you have an idea of how long it will take to save up the money you need to move on? Hope you can get it sorted out quickly for yourself - hopefully you'll feel so much better once you separate. I feel better already after months of crippling anxiety and depression, but am still on edge because of it all and in managing the next few weeks with an ex who doesn't want to split.

Really hope you're ok xxx

Oh, flying, I'm sure you are reliving your parent's divorce! I am certainly terrified of making the same mistakes and repeating history. I am mainly worried about repeating my mum's anger and depression, and I know that my reaction to conflict is to get angry, my DH has often said that I am very bolshie and rude, and that really hurts. But I have found that my anger is a defence and that underneath it is sadness and hurt. So I guess I need to look deeper when I get angry and deal with the sadness that it is covering.

I can understand why you are suspicious of your DP and that you are worried that he will come back. I feel a bit like that with my DH. I didn't want to ask him to move out immediately, as it's not like he has cheated or been violent, nothing dramatic. Also I think that he is more likely to go without me shouting and screaming if I just leave him to it - that's how he ended up having "the talk" with me 2 months earlier than he said. So all in all I think that if I can be patient, it will be more amicable, and that would be best for all os us.

Re saving up money, it's not really that bad - I don't have any savings, but I can easily cut back on outings, meals out etc. and that way get enough for the moving expenses. Not sure if I said, but so far I am not planning om moving until spring/early summer next year, as by then it would make sense to move closer to the secondary school anyway (DS is in year 5, so one more year of primary school) and the choice on the local rental market is best at that time anyway. DH knows this, and I have said that he can stay until then - although I suspect he will move a lot sooner, and possibly he will go on extended business trips as a transition.

Sorry just had to post...

Ex partner came to see children and before he left started talking about everything. He had a few points which to him highlight that my stance on the matter is wrong:

He can't believe that I can just turn off my feelings after 12 years.
That I'm giving up on the family.
That I've got to take responsibility for the demise of the relationship just as much as him.
Yes he doesn't trust women or like them and I've contributed to that because I slept with someone else when we split up.
That ds1 needs to know that the split is my decision so that he doesn't blame his dad.
That my counselling is dangerous because my theories on what I see as right dictate everyone else's lives, even though my views are wrong.
He acknowledges his anger but said everyone does this at some point and I'm blowing it out of proportion.
Apologised for the disgusting comments and said he feels bad about them but he was angry.

I said I was finally seeing the situation for what it is. That I feel oppressed in my own home and we are all living with an undercurrent of repressed anger, lack of involvement/interest/love. He feels I'm bailing out as it's 'all about to change' as his work situation is becoming less pressured.

I said the work addiction is just a symptom of the problem and that he needs to dig deeper than this in order to look at these things. He said he is going to access therapy. He said that I look like I think I'm right and I'm wrong... I said in actually feeling really good about the decision and it feels right. He then left.

My head feels mashed but still feeling strong. He brought back that feeling of insecurity and fear and I feel like I need to cleanse my house!!!

Xxx

Sorry misscph we crossed posts! I'll reply once these monkeys are asleep lol xx

That is painful, and it hits right where it hurts. Hold on to why you are doing this, hold on to how things have been, not how they could be, because it's too late.

He is entitled to his opinion, but you both experience this differently. I personally have a huge need to tell my DH exactly how I see it, but he is not interested, and the good thing about that is that I won't get to hear his side either. What I notice about his points is that it is mainly blaming you, only a few are him taking responsibility (2 out of 6).

I know that you can't help understanding him to a certain extent. But keep remembering that you need to look after yourself, and that of course you both have regrets.

Checking in quickly as ds asleep next to me!

Just to say you're doing great flying. Stay strong. He's minimising. And making this all about you so pressing on your guilty buttons. Don't fall for it. If he was sincere about changing he wouldn't use it conditionally like a carrot to pull you back in, he'd just do it. And he'd respect your feelings, not criticise them.

It's all a trap, an abusive cycle, and I'm so glad to see how lucid you are.

Your little boy's way if opening up at school shows that you've been doing a great job. Don't ever let your ex make you doubt yourself!
Got to go but rooting for you!x

There will be ups and downs, Flying, you will have doubts, you will be upset, but you will also feel certain, and you will be happy.

I think at the end of the day it's important to remember to not let feelings rule us. Especially during difficult times. We need to not let the negative thoughts overwhelm us, but keep focusing on positive thoughts.

My DH is away on a business trip today, back tomorrow, and I am so torn, one part of me is so pleased to get a break, but the other is so sad because I used to really miss him when he was away. I am really mourning the loss of my love for him. But I need to remind myself that I am doing the right thing, that I am splitting up with him because I don't and can't love him anymore. And that there is light at the end of the tunnel, that we have two fantastic kids, that we are at least trying to do this amicable, and hopefully we will succeed and both be happier apart.

Yes misscph, yesterday was just a rant about how inaccurate my thoughts and feelings are which left me feeling very unsure about everything. We both see it very differently but as my view paints him in a bad light he can't hear it and has to make it about to. TBH I know I'm not perfect by a long shot but I can't be responsible for the things that have made me unhappy when their things in him I don't like? Surely it's just my opinion? Nice for you to get a break with your husband being away but it's sad when you look back on those old feelings and how they have disappeared. A lady at school said that once you actually separate you have got through most of the hard part as the physical separation has actually happened and you can start moving forward..

Thanks lurkingwithlove, it's very hard to see it as abuse because he looks so sincere and really believes it's just work being too demanding and that once this is reduced it will be ok. I told him that the work situation is just a symptom of the real problem. We talked about the anger and he seems perplexed that I'm ending things on an angry comment... again minimising and totally not listening to anything I've said!! Ds1 was truely awesome bless his little heart. He seems to be doing quite well, some anger and defiance tonight but we got through it and then talked it all out.

I think ex partner can't get his head around how my mindset has changed so rapidly.. he thinks I'm like an ice queen.. I just said that I feel like I'm now seeing everything for what it is and realising I can't go on like it.

He has text today telling me he'll always be there for me and that he's going to carry on seeing our couples therapist on his own. They have invited me to the next session so am not sure if I should go to this or not. Suppose it would give me an opportunity to clearly express all of my issues so that as his work goes forward she is fully aware of everything and he can't pull the wool over her eyes in an attempt to minimise everything? Not sure.

He's text again asking if we should still holiday together for the sake of the kids.. again I'm not sure. He said it's so the kids don't miss out but TBH I was planning on taking them on my own!!

How old is your LO lurking? Am missing baby cuddles and breastfeeding right now. That was my safe place for a long time I think and I finished breastfeeding dd in January.

Took a day off work and my mum came over. I cleaned the house from top to bottom and then went for coffee.. it was so nice! Then bought candle and air fresheners and am now sat here in clean serene home with no grumpy oppressive twat sat staring at his phone or laptop!! It's really nice, but I do feel lonely too.

Thanks for the messages, sorry it's taken so long to respond.. it's all a bit full on at the moment!!! Xxx

Hi flying :) my LO is not so little at 11 but is still a hugger. He usually sleeps in his own room but had a bad dream. I miss the breastfeeding days still!

I no what you mean about the word abuse. It took me about two years to realise that gaslighting was a form of abuse. I always thought of it a something overtly violent. Now I think of it as any behaviour that damages us to give the other some kind of control, be it manipulation, shouting you down, twisting events, re-writing history, using the kids to get you to do something or covertly/overtly destroying your self esteem..doesn't matter if its consciously or semi consciously.

If I were you, and talking from experience believe me, I'd decline the holiday idea. It'll mess with the dc's heads and can always be reorganised another time if things ever work out between you. Get some space and downtime away from it all, it's what you were planning..do it!

What really rings bells with me in your story is how he tries to question your feelings. Like you said above it's your opinion, your heart. That he tries to question that is his issue in a nutshell: you don't get to have feelings that don't suit his narrative in his world. That's very unhealthy if not controlling. It's hard when you've been with someone like that to clear up the fuzzy boundaries but the first step is not to enter into a debate about whether or not what you feel is ok...it just is, no judgement to be had. The only thing you can debate are facts, behaviour, events. Which is why people like that try and distract us by debating our feelings as if we talked facts they start to look bad...