"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's May 2017, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Lanouvelle sorry, just cross posted so hadn't read your most recent post. Having now read it I might be off the mark - sorry.

Spare - no, please don't apologise, I think your post is really perceptive. I do think that both DSis and DP are to blame, to some extent, but I think the weight of it has shifted from DP earlier to Dsis later. However, it's not an either/or, but a % share IYSWIM!! I'm under no illusions that a dynamic as strong as the GC/scapegoat one can ever fully vanish -it's just that it has retreated. The pivotal event in this happening was meeting my DH, who is a very calm presence and does a job that my parents admire, not in a worldly way but in a vocational one. My parents like him and are even a bit in awe of him, and somehow his being there in the family circle has let them see me in a new way, through his eyes. He is also sufficiently outside of their dynamics that they realise that they can't act up in the way they used to around him, unless they want him to feel they are completely bonkers. So the absolutely mad edge to the behaviour that used to be there has stopped. I guess this means that, at some level, they always knew that what they were doing would not be socially acceptable.

The Karpman drama thing is interesting. I do feel like my family operate on all three axes at times (I'm right/I'm good/I'm blameless) and that I am the only one who sees shades of grey. Including my own - there are things I have done that are neither right, nor good, nor blameless! But the triangle is so strong that even the slightest admission in that direction is seen by others as a justified acceptance of status as an evil person (and a justification, therefore, of my being a scapegoat), rather than as a statement of the human condition generally: none of us are angels, few are devils.

I do genuinely think I've been the one who has suffered the most in the situation, and yet I seem to be the only one who has any ability to put myself in the shoes of the others in my family and see their suffering too - I actually understand why my mother parented the way she did, and I have made my peace with it and forgiven it (if by 'forgiveness' we understand a state of calm that has to be maintained, rather than some moment of decision that then needs no work thereafter). I'm not saying I'm some super compassionate person here - I'm not, I try but I don't always succeed - just that there is a spectacular lack of compassion on their part, and I think it goes back to those three sides of that triangle. Blamelessness, goodness and being in the right can only be maintained without it.

Thanks for the hug and the welcome.
Very briefly, my dad is an alcohol, functioning though, he's had anger issues for ever but used to generally be nice unless he'd been drinking. Over the past 10-15 years though his personality has changed. He's become more and more volatile, less and less interested in his family unless we're doing what he wants or agreeing with him on everything. There's been so many blow-ups over the years but recently, my DM's dad died (my grandad) and my dad has been awful about it, just as he was awful when her mum died. Telling her she needs to cheer up, get over it, that he doesn't care that they died and doesn't understand why we've been upset by it, even made fun of my brother for crying on the day he died. For context, I'm 28, DBro is 35, we're both married (to other people obviously!) and my parents have been married 39 years. My mum has always been financially reliant on my dad, as she was a SAHM and then has worked for the past 20ish years, but in relatively low paying albeit professional roles. For this reason, and the fact that she loves him, she's never felt able/really wanted to leave.

Last night 'D'F came home drunk, told DM that he had found someone to buy a certain item from Gdad's estate (which she was happy to sell) but said they then had to drive 45 mins, collect the buyer, and do it tonight, by that point was already 8.30 pm and DM had no idea this was even going to happen. She ended up going, but they did argue, item got sold, on the way back they argued again and apparently 'D'F said 'We're finished'. Then walked back into parents house and said to my brother who was there for the evening 'Your mother and I are parting ways'. My DBro told him exactly what he thought of him and how everyone felt about how he treated us all and told him to get out if that's what he wanted. So 'D'F packed a bag and left, turned up again at 7 am but won't speak to anyone. I just don't feel I can have him in my life anymore, but don't see how I can't, if DM takes him back again.

Sorry that's so long and garbled! I just don't know how to process any of it. Feel like I need therapy!

alcoholic

Oh goodness, that's really awful flash. It sounds like tensions have been building for a while, but have finally exploded. I am in a rush, but didn't want to read and run, so some quick thoughts.

The first thing to say is: get practical. Talk to your DM and see if there is some capacity there to get her out of this awful marriage. If possible, get her away from the physical presence of your father - bring her to your house for a bit if necessary. If possible, find out what her financial situation would be without your DF. It may be far, far better than you may think. I would focus, at this crisis point, on supporting her through this, with your brother. If the three of you can stick together through this, you can build a unit of mutual support that effectively excludes him and you will get stronger and stronger as the days go past. It sounds as though you've accumulated a fair bit of fear around your DF (understandably) - we are here to support you and to tell you that you don't need to live with this. There is life for your family without this man in the middle, poisoning everything.

Hi - hoping I can join - so relieved to find this thread, and some horribly dysfunctional parents!


Seriously considering NC with my dad, but not sure if I'm overreacting ? He has some really good points - took us to the theatre, museums, lovely holidays etc.


As a child he would shout if angry, in our faces, until he became red in the face and we were crying. We were scared of him and tended to tread on egg shells. He would often throw things across the room in a rage - glasses etc, and swear, shout (F word) from us being a very young age, and beat his hands across his head over and over in anger. Small things would set him off - often road rage, and he suffered from extreme jealousy - especially around my mum (they were divorced, and I lived half the time with her - he was jealous not of her, but of the time I spent with her) - if anyone asked when I was going 'home' (ie to my mum's) they were really in for it! He'd shout 'She's not going home! She already IS home!' etc.


He wasn't violent until much later - when his long time partner left him, I was around 17. We argued about something trivial - maybe the phone bill - and I probably gave him some lip! He basically trapped me in his room, sneering at me and pushing me down on the bed over and over again - wouldn't let me get up. I threatened to shout out of the window to the neighbour - he just laughed and told me to do it. I kicked his leg, and ran to the bathroom, he forced his way in and had his hands around my throat - not strangling, but kept bumping my head down on the floor. in the end I managed to run to my friend's house. The only other time -he hit me in the face leaving a bruise - I had to cover it up at school.

I left home at that point.


Anyway, I now have my own kids, who he adores. But is still so controlling and sneery. When I split with my husband (nasty split - he was a similar character but without the violence) - I had a total breakdown. My dad met with me and basically had a go - said I wasn't a very good daughter, why didn't I see him often enough? His wife joined in. Said all he ever wanted was to see me, and I didn't make enough time for him (single mum - not so easy with all the clubs etc as we all know!!) - was v jealous of the time I spend with my mum.


It still goes on. He can be lovely - wants to help with my new house, wants to do DIY, really taken to my new partner. But I'm constantly dancing in circles trying to please him. egg shells. Father's day - I phoned him to wish him happy father's day (I had friends round on Sunday) - and had them both round for a meal the following day, with present and card. Just sneered. Wasn't at all complimentary about either food or present, and his wife was the same. Mentioned I was tired (v hot day at work l!) after getting them a drink - in that 'gosh I'm exhausted ha ha' way - she just replied - 'oh! Well if you're tired we won't keep you long!'. That's not what I meant and they knew it! Anyway, after 5 hours of this they finally left. I ended up sobbing down the phone to my mum. Felt so bloody guilty but I don't really know what for?? Maybe because I hadn't made it round on Father's Day?!


It just seems a constant circle of sneering at me, having a go, me apologising or it blowing over. It's got to the stage where I don't want to see either of them. Really don't - but there must be something that is a trigger! I've seen him like it with my step mother - but she just 'manages' it. She seems to actively encourage him to think of me in this way - as an awful daughter! Just fed up.


He's lovely to my kids - has them once a week for their dad on one of his days - and is lovely to them, though is starting to be domineering with my older one - disciplines him when I'm there and undermines me. It was noticeable the other day that he was dismissive and sneery of me, yet lovely to my kids.


Trouble is - if I go NC, I know he'll flip, be ;persistent and hassle by phone and text. I can block, but then he'll call round to the house - and that'll end up being a police job. Just can't face it. I know this because my step sister ended up going NC when he split up with her mum, and he didn't deal with it at all. Told me not to speak of her, he wasn't interested in what she was doing - and almost goaded her. He mocks everything she does (we hear of her via her sister etc) - and this is 30 years later!


Also fuzzy boundaries - was insistent about us all being confident with our bodies as kids, and used to walk around naked in the morning. Full on morning glory - makes me feel sick when I think about it.


Apologies for the length of this. Some of the stories i have read on this thread have shocked me too.

Nomoreheroesanymore I have nearly cried reading your story. I see so much of my self in you, we could be sisters.

It's awful, the NC is really hard to establish when there are GC in the mix. Mine dote on him and if I say anything against him then they hate me. I am VLC until they turn 18 and then I am NC all the way.

My DF was the same about body image, he wrecked mine. Even a couple of years ago when I met someone and my DB let slip at a family meal he asked if he was going out with me because he was a feeder. When I got upset and left afterwards my DM said I was being oversensitive!

It's hard to decide what to do for the best but if I work it out I'll let you know 😩

@StaciesMom

Awful. Why do they think they can say what they want to and it's 'just a joke'. Absolute bollocks. Why are we still in fear / awe / whatever it is - of them by the time we are adults and have our own kids?

My DF would never have accepted this from his parents.

nomore - what would happen if you spoke to your father, seriously, about his behaviour and its effect on you and asked him to stop. Have you been able to try this? He sounds very domineering, and firmer boundaries, if not NC, sound like a good plan.

Thank you. I've tried. He always makes it about him. Last time just said 'why do you ALWAYS have a go at me?

Followed by anger.

It's really hard! I think I probably need to 'manage' him better. And accept that my feelings are as valid as his. And not care if he sulks - leave him to it!!

I think your last point - not caring if he sulks - is a vital part of this. As the survivor of an abusive parent, you very likely feel too much responsibility for the emotions of your parent. It's one of the many ways abusive people control others. You can't control his reactions, but you can control your own. Not feeling responsible for his emotional wellbeing, and not blaming yourself for his reactions is much harder to do than it might sound, but a good first step. And it sends a really good message about not being controllable in that way any more.

@lanouvelleheloise some really good points. The emotional control seems to be a really common theme on this thread.

And it's that classic - you can't control someone else's actions, but you can control your own.

Typically though, like with spoilt children, if we ignore the sulking it'll result in them demanding to 'talk' about things!

Hello everyone.

Ive been on these threads in the past and Im feeling the need to rejoin. Im not sure if anyone remembers me but a brief summary. Ive had several periods of NC with my mother. She was very controlling growing up, makes everything about herself. We had longest spell of NC when I fled an abusive partner and went into a women's refuge. She sided with my ex partner, accused me of lying, wrote lengthy letters for his use in court outlining my mental instability and record of "lying" and supported him while playing the role of grieving mother to wider family, talking about HER worry, her stress, the toll it was all taking on her. Ive tried several times in the years that followed to have some kind of a low contact relationship with but it just doesnt work. Im unable to forget the past, have a v low tolerance for her snide remarks and digs.

My eldest child has been undergoing assessments for SEN, they thought she was probably on the Autistic Spectrum. My mother has doggedly insisted, in a faux sympathetic tone of voice, that DD has an Attachment Disorder caused by being wrenched from the stability of her home and dragged into a refuge. "It wasnt your fault Shadows, you werent well, but you cant expect such a traumatic experience to have left no mark on a child. Those early months are so important developmentally, what happened to her is bound to have caused some irreprable damage" The assessments have shown DD has a genetic condition called Trisomy. Its non hereditary and nothing Ive done could have caused or prevented it. Ive been carrying blame around for years unecessarily and I think its the final straw.

We are due to move house in Sept/Oct and Im not giving her my new address or telling her about the move. Im slowly disentagling myself, taking a few weeks to reply to texts, keeping her at bay because experience tells me that if she realises what Im doing she will start randomly turning up at the house banging on the door. My DCs love her and get v distressed that I wont let her in and its awful. So subtle and slow for now and then I can just walk away when we move and not look back.

Ive got in touch with an estranged half sister (on my Dads side) and we are meeting up regularly. Me and DP are getting married next year and we are having a v small private ceremony, just my sister there from my side of the family.

Im on the home strait, and I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Knowing this thread is here for when I have a wobble or if she turns up/escalates will be my safety net. This is the last time though, Im sure of that, no more chances. I think Ive finally accepted that she will never be the mother I wanted her to be. That person never existed and I think Ive finished the grieving process for her now. Its onwards and upwards.

I've posted on this thread before about my mum ripping me off and deciding to go NC. But now I need to end my "relationship"....because he is doing something to me that I don't really understand, but all I know is that I'm hurting. Also, when there was a brief split earlier this year I was raped by someone who groomed me. So much trauma and no one to turn too. I've never been loved, all I've done is gone from one abuse situation to the next. My DD is 7 and I'm meant to make her feel safe and secure so that she grows up to be a stable with healthy self esteem woman. How am I meant to do that when I feel so scared about the world I live in. I love my DD dearly, but I worry I can't give her what she needs because all I want to do is curl up in a ball and never wake up. I'm terrified. I have no family and no friends What do I do. Where do I go

Congratulations shadows! My god, what a huge set of steps forward. Best of luck with the move, and everything.
What chromosome is your DD's trisomy on, if you don't mind me asking? I'm just interested - I have a chromosomal abnormality that led to recurrent miscarriage, but it was on two chromosomes (13 and 14) that lead to trisomies that cause severe disability/miscarriage. There are a load of them that are much milder.
Your bloody mother. She's learned enough of the language of development/psychology to be able to try and twist the knife. You wonder, don't you, what went through her mind when she was reading the description of attachment disorder (given that it's a damn sight more likely that you would have had it!) - but it doesn't work like that, does it. My mother thought she was an awesome mother. I mean I think she really believed it, at some level anyway.

nomoreheroes if you have to be in contact with your father, and you want to be more boundaried, I'd recommend removing yourself from the situation whenever he says or does something out of line. I think there's no point in trying to talk to them because they either hear it as a personal attack or they enjoy the drama.

Regarding your kids, he seems to have taken the path that a lot of abusive parents take, which is to be extra nice to the grandkids (Attila always says that they either over- or undervalue their relationships with their grandkids). I always think this is basically about gaslighting you - you're supposed to think, if we was that bad to me as a kid, why is he so nice now? Was it me? Was I so hard to live with? Am I remembering it wrong? You're not - it's a damn sight easier to be nice to your grandkids for an hour or a day or two than it is to be nice to your own children day in day out, if you're the kind of person who blames all their bad moods on the people around them.

She seems to actively encourage him to think of me in this way - as an awful daughter!
Your stepmum is his enabler, and like any other enabler, she's happy to throw anyone else under the bus to take the heat off of her.

Is there anything you can do about the contact you have with him - can you reduce it gradually, switch to meeting him in public places so you can get away, stuff like that? It sounds like you will struggle to keep him away from your kids though, as he sees them on your exH's contact days? How do you feel about that?

Waves and to everyone else, how are you all doing?

shadows its so good you're at peace with yourself now. I've found this thread incredibly helpful too, even if i don't post just reading peoples experiences have made me realise im not alone :)

nomore i'd try and cut down to minimum contact. Your dad sounds like my M especially with the walking on eggshells and anger side of things.

Just a question as i was having a think about things. I've found because my relationship with my parents has been damaging have you struggled with friendships too? I know some people have toxic relationships with partners but i seem to always end up with toxic friends. Its quite upsetting because the ones i let get close to me ended up stabbing me in the back. I hate confrontation so i just cut them out of my life and never spoke to them again. I know feel like a have a handful of friends but no one particularly close. Its quite lonely really. I opened up to a friend i trust the other day and mildly told her about my M.
So do other people find they end up with toxic friends too?

I now have a handful of friends sorry didn't make sense.

Hello, I have recently found this board and have found so many sad and familiar stories. My heart goes out everyone who's had to deal with toxic parents.

My story: I am middle-aged now, family of my own. I am the eldest of three, with a father who was violent and unpredictable. I had never heard the term scapegoat child before reading about it on MN but that is most certainly the role I was assigned. Being a girl and being the oldest, maybe I was the obvious target? Who knows why? It's all a long time ago now, but the memories are still very raw. Examples: when I was teenager, my dad throttled me and held me by my neck against the wall when I refused to wash up. (I think I was rebelling because my siblings were rarely asked to help with chores). I will never forget the fury on his face. Lots of body-shaming, so I grew up feeling ashamed of myself and scared of intimacy. I'm still terrified that I smell 'bad' so shy away from standing close to people. Lots more things, too many to mention but I am sure you know the type of treatment.

Sorry if this has been covered before, but how do reconcile this treatment in childhood as an adult? My dad is elderly now, and since I left university many years we have had a cordial and fairly loving relationship. I know it sounds implausible but I still love(d) him and wanted his approval. He has hinted recently that he feels terrible about the way he behaved to me, and that he is very sorry. It's great that he has acknowledged this, but I really don't want to talk to him about it, for my own mental well-being I suppose. It's still too upsetting to think about. It's something I have learned to live with.

Something else I feel bad about: my younger sister has never forgiven me for treating her badly as a child. In my defence, I was a very unhappy girl (wet my bed regularly, self-harmed and so on) and saw only too clearly how she could never do anything wrong, how I got blamed and how everything that went wrong or got broken was my fault, being as I was the eldest, and therefore responsible for my siblings. I am very sorry that I made her unhappy of course, and have tried so hard to be a nice adult and to treat her as an equal, but she won't believe me, or doesn't want to hear about it when I try and explain what things were like. Looking back, we fought a lot, and I was always being told I was too bossy, even though I wouldn't say boo to a goose to anyone outside the family. Can you tell we have a problem with communication in our family?

Sorry for the ramble. I haven't spoken to anyone about this before so it's all a bit new and confusing.

How have others here dealt with this kind of situation? both with parent wanting to make amends, and with unforgiving siblings?

nomoreheroes I am sorry your dad is still acting this way. I know that feeling of walking on eggshells only too well. It's horrible. I also know all too well that icky feeling of having your body commented on and the fuzzy boundaries you describe. I have never been brave enough to go NC but I did move a long way away as soon as I was able. I hope you find the strength to do what you feel is best for you.

Thanks all for the hugely helpful advice. Really is so helpful to know that it's recognised behaviour!

No - must admit it's not affected my friendships (although he does sneer at my friends) - and great advice to remove from situations.

Great advice too about removing from the situation. Thank you. I hate it when he sulks - the guilt is immense! It's indescribable.

And the veiled sexual stuff - makes me feel ill. Feel like I don't want him any where near me physically. Yuk. Which makes him feel rejected, and so it's a vicious cycle.

@toomuchtooold in terms of him having the kids on my ex's contact days - not hugely happy. He thinks it gives him licence to be part of big decisions about them - almost like he has shared custody. He doesn't of course.

Fortunately my ex is mostly on board. He also says he sees his relationship with them as 'a bit strange' at times. If it came to it, I'd have to leave work early to pick them up. I've got a very careful eye on it. The kids adore them both iof course - they do fun stuff with them.

Chocolatte yes to the friendships thing. It took being on this thread for me to realise.

With some friendships just having better boundaries in place has helped. So for example one friend has a habit of giving me unwanted advice and I now turn it back on her and thank her for telling me what she would do, but that I'm different and mightn't make those choices. Another friend likes to play the martyr and I try now to turn that back on her too and rather than leap in to help I ask her how she thinks she's going to solve whatever problem she's presenting with. But there have also been some friends who I've just had to let go. I do feel as though I have very few friends left! But what I have read is that eventually with your new stronger self you do eventually make better friendships - you just have to be patient. I am so much happier in myself for coming to terms with a shit childhood (and parenting our DD better as a result) that it's worth it.

chocolate I've had the same issue with friends, more so when I was younger. I always acted like a doormat and would take abuse, be there whenever they needed me (always got dropped as soon as a better offer came along) and spent my money on them. Had one 'friend' in particular who made the most of this. I haven't seen her for years thankfully. As a result I don't really have a group of friends. I do have a few very good friends in my life though, who I will always be grateful for.

Notonyournelly I kind of have the opposite situation to you. I was the golden child for a while and my older siblings were scapegoats. This was until I started to have an opinion of my own. My older siblings did treat me badly and bullied me right into my teens. We're not close now but I don't blame them. I think it's because I've seen just how bad my parents were and know what they went through. Did your sister get the same treatment as you? Does she understand what happened?

Heroes My M is similar to your dad, the jealousy of who I spend time with and the sneers. The sneering is a control thing, designed to make you try harder to please.

I went low contact with my M about four months ago and have used a few techniques to help me cope, with myself as well as with any backlash. I totally recommend being 'good enough', this works so well that I have applied it to everybody and everything. It's something I make up as I go along after I read an article about mothers who aim to be the perfect mum when really there's nothing wrong with being 'good enough'.

This works well for me because although I wanted to break free of being the fixer, the doormat, the less important and the one to shoulder all the bad shit I wasn't after revenge or pay back and I had also accepted that I'd never change her. Also, I'm not opposed to no contact but ideally I'd like our relationship to come to a natural end rather than go through anything emotionally testing as I don't feel I could cope. The way being good enough works is as simple as it sounds, I see my M when it's convenient, I spend as much time with her as is convenient and I chat shit about the weather or TV or other such boring stuff because all that is good enough. It's not happened overnight but in a short space of time I have gone from putting my M first, before my own family and friends, to fitting her in when it's convenient because the fact that I am still seeing her at all is good enough. It's normal and it's healthy. So far so good, my M did have a sulk early on and another longer one recently and even though it lasted for four weeks I didn't rise to it, I didn't try to fix it, I didn't even ask her what was wrong. I told myself that whatever it was wasn't down to me because I had nothing to feel guilty about, what I was doing was perfectly good enough.

I apply it's 'good enough' to food I make, the way I clean the house, the gifts I buy people, the conversations I have, all sorts. This is a huge shift for me because being the daughter of a N I was conditioned to feel guilt and blame if I was less than perfect or if I did things that were less than perfect. I feel so much better accepting that I'll never be perfect but I will try to be good enough.

spare i hope your right that when im feeling stronger good friends will fall into place.

sleepy yes it was the same for me, always the door mat. It was like they were thinking oh she wont mind if i ditch her etc. One 'friend' who i went to school with and counted her as a good friend. She moved to london and i always made such an effort with her. When i text her i was pregnant it took her a while to reply, she came home for xmas and i tried to arrange to see her she blew me off. Then when i had my DS it was all over my social media and our other mutual friends. She didnt congratulate me, took her 9 days after to text and that was only because i had removed her off social media. I never responded.

I was also the golden child, which i've only just seen and my younger sis was the scapegoat. She moved out way before me and surprisingly we get on well. Although now i feel she is more of the golden child and im the scapegoat because i have more of an opinion now.