"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's May 2017, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

They are basically the same. Just depends on where and in what "tradition" the person has been trained in. The most important thing to check is that they are registered with the relevant body (COSCA, BACP, BAAT). Coaches and unregulated therapists of different kinds are obviously an unknown, so I would, personally, avoid.

If it seems hard to connect with a therapist, you can raise the issue or talk about how you feel. That can often make a big difference. Although therapists are often very good at reading clues about how the client feels, they are not mind readers. These are people who are trained to work on feedback and with difficult feelings directed at them. I appreciate it's very hard to suddenly have the courage to seemingly "confront" someone like your therapist about how you feel about things they do or don't do, but therein lies the seed for change. For many of us assertiveness (which can often make us worried about reaction and rejection) and openness (which makes us feel vulnerable) is very hard, but therapy is exactly the kind of safe place to explore issues like this and gain in confidence. Even in the unlikely event that nothing changes and you still want to quit and find another therapist, you will at least feel empowered, having been honest and "stood up for yourself" to effect positive change.

Sorry to barge in with a question but i have a query for those further down the nc line. I am nc with inlaws, dh remains extremely lc. We have been married 20 years.

I am in the main at peace with my nc decision but i wanted to ask do you ever get to the stage where you are at peace and they dont use your headspace. I know holding onto anger is bad for you but i dont know how to let it go.

Its only really if i am pmt, stressed or feeling down then i will automatically start ruminating about it. Mainly i feel real anger towards mil about how shockingly poor she treated dh. I have really nasty harmful thoughts towards her. She is in her 70s, im in my 40s.

I have been nc for nearly two years, it has overall been good and taken me out of the equation. They have continuedto behave terribly towards dh and from a distance to gc. I am still processing the things she has done and her hurtful behaviour during some really terrible times. The ability to make it all about her even when gc in hospital, failed ivf etc its really quite breathtaking, all enabled by pop up fil.

I struggle with being labelled the problem the difficult one, rationally i know this isnt the case but deep down i want to be liked, as does everyone. I keep thinking they will see the light! Realise they are so wrong but i know i know she wont change her behaviours are all so deeply entrenched.

Things that have helped is dh not relaying back to me any news, convos etc. But has anyone any tips of how to move on, give them less headspace, live with difficult label.

Thankyou again for this thread it has been invaluable over the years xx

Coconut70 - I would love to know the answer to this myself.

I could've written your OP and the only details that need changing would be VLC for me and LC for DH. Snap with making it all about her when the GC in hospital and probably many other things.

I've had counselling, in part to try to move on, give them less headspace and live with the difficult label. It has helped but it is a slow process and it definitely wasn't a quick fix. It helped a lot being able to tell someone all the stories that span decades and see the obvious pattern. To get the validation that this was toxic and dysfunction behaviour and I am right to disengage and they won't change.

I definitely picked up the difficult label from them by questioning some of their actions, standing up for DH and not immediately falling in with their plans. Oh and making it clear that it isn't acceptable when they start slagging off yet another person in my presence.

I've found the ruminating about it all has become a bit of a habit. It was two years ago that I discovered this thread and had the lightbulb moment that a lot of covert narcissism boxes were being ticked by behaviour that previously baffled me. Then came the binge watching of youtube videos on the subject - which was useful to start with but now...not so sure and not sure what I keep looking for.

They may have given you the difficult label but you don't need to accept it. Acknowledge that it is a sad situation - allow yourself to grieve for the loss of a loving and supportive family on that side. Distraction helps too - find plenty of things to keep you busy to break the cycle and to help with disengaging with it all. I agree - not hearing about them helps and for the most part we completely avoid discussing them. Sometimes they do something that infuriates DH (same old stuff) and he needs to vent but I've found I am increasingly taking on the role of counsellor with him rather than fellow victim - I'm taking that as progress!

Hi everyone. I haven't been here for a week or so and have got behind! Will catch up. For now I just want to say hi and I hope you are all doing OK.

I realised I was being reeled back in to my assigned role. I felt stupid for not realising. Am now reestablishing boundaries and trying to cope with the anxiety that comes with that. And the sadness and rage because I know it will mean I won't get the same approval etc.

Anyone here from a religious upbringing/ background? I am struggling with how I feel about my beliefs in light of all of this stuff.

Hi everyone. I haven't been here for a week or so and have got behind! Will catch up. For now I just want to say hi and I hope you are all doing OK.

I realised I was being reeled back in to my assigned role. I felt stupid for not realising. Am now reestablishing boundaries and trying to cope with the anxiety that comes with that. And the sadness and rage because I know it will mean I won't get the same approval etc.

Anyone here from a religious upbringing/ background? I am struggling with how I feel about my beliefs in light of all of this stuff.

Hi everyone. I haven't been here for a week or so and have got behind! Will catch up. For now I just want to say hi and I hope you are all doing OK.

I realised I was being reeled back in to my assigned role. I felt stupid for not realising. Am now reestablishing boundaries and trying to cope with the anxiety that comes with that. And the sadness and rage because I know it will mean I won't get the same approval etc.

Anyone here from a religious upbringing/ background? I am struggling with how I feel about my beliefs in light of all of this stuff.

Hi everyone. I haven't been here for a week or so and have got behind! Will catch up. For now I just want to say hi and I hope you are all doing OK.

I realised I was being reeled back in to my assigned role. I felt stupid for not realising. Am now reestablishing boundaries and trying to cope with the anxiety that comes with that. And the sadness and rage because I know it will mean I won't get the same approval etc.

Anyone here from a religious upbringing/ background? I am struggling with how I feel about my beliefs in light of all of this stuff.

Hi everyone. I haven't been here for a week or so and have got behind! Will catch up. For now I just want to say hi and I hope you are all doing OK.

I realised I was being reeled back in to my assigned role. I felt stupid for not realising. Am now reestablishing boundaries and trying to cope with the anxiety that comes with that. And the sadness and rage because I know it will mean I won't get the same approval etc.

Anyone here from a religious upbringing/ background? I am struggling with how I feel about my beliefs in light of all of this stuff.

Sorry about the duplicates!!!

Hello everyone like coconut sorry to barge in and ask questions but I need some advice.
Today I refused to let my Mum gloss over her behaviour and basically questioned some lies she had told (very vague but trying not to get into the whole story) on the phone, I cried at the end and said I would talk another time and ended the call. She then texts me saying it's best if we don't see each other again😂. Anyway before I can respond she has texted my DB who is texting me asking what's happening. I explain to him and while he gets it, he responds is a bit 'you know what she is like'. Suddenly it hit me that I have given similar responses to him when he is upset with her, we both have minimised her behaviour at different times to each other. When are never at the same point in our relationship with her at the same time. How have other people managed this and do people's recognise this?

Also how do you get over the fear that you will become them and be the same with your children?

Sorry this is all a bit all over place, but my thoughts and emotions are all over the place today.

Hi foxrun

re your comments:-

"Today I refused to let my Mum gloss over her behaviour and basically questioned some lies she had told (very vague but trying not to get into the whole story) on the phone, I cried at the end and said I would talk another time and ended the call. She then texts me saying it's best if we don't see each other again. Anyway before I can respond she has texted my DB who is texting me asking what's happening. I explain to him and while he gets it, he responds is a bit 'you know what she is like'. Suddenly it hit me that I have given similar responses to him when he is upset with her, we both have minimised her behaviour at different times to each other. When are never at the same point in our relationship with her at the same time. How have other people managed this and do people's recognise this?"

Its not you, its your mother. She is disordered and its not your fault either she is like this. You did not make her that way (her own family of origin did that). What if anything do you know about her own family background, that often gives clues.

I would take her at her word and not see each other again, she has given you the ideal get out clause here in writing that to you. She may on the other hand try to contact you again; do not let her back in. Your mother is a thoroughly toxic individual who has never apologised nor has accepted any real responsibility for her actions. She is not interested in your point of view, only hers and toxic people often rewrite the past to suit them and their needs. Her responses are not atypical of what such toxic people say either.

I would not respond further as any response from you is the reward to such disordered people; it also just keeps you in the loop and that is something you want to escape from. Your brother's response is poor and simply further excuses her own disordered behaviour. He would rather you cop the crap from her than he; that may well be what he is afraid of now if you have no contact with her. However, that is his problem and not yours.

You do not mention your dad at all; where is he?.

Re your comment:-
"Also how do you get over the fear that you will become them and be the same with your children? "

Your mother and you are completely separate beings although she may well have tried to make you an extension of her. This fear is often expressed by many adult children of toxic parents but you know this treatment of you from her is wrong and that you would never treat any child of yours in the same manner. You have two qualities as well that she is lacking in; insight and empathy.

Do read Toxic Parents as a starting point as this could help you no end. Also consider too finding a therapist to work with; BACP are good and do not charge the earth.

Chest,

Well done for realising that; unfortunately that is also par for the course. Toxic families really do like to keep people within and in their assigned roles.

It is more than ok to not have any further contact with them all; toxic people can and do actively rail against boundary setting and will not like this from you one bit. Setting boundaries can therefore be a futile exercise when it comes to toxic family members as they are rarely if ever respected. Their approval as you now know too is also conditional but you no longer really need their approval either (not that they'd ever give this to you freely anyway).

She then texts me saying it's best if we don't see each other again
Foxrun, I'm reminded of how, several years ago after I confronted her my mother responded by telling me that I was now dead to her.

I was very surprised by her response, and then immensely relived that she had removed herself and I no longer had to deal with her.

I imagine she expected me to beg for her forgiveness, she had no idea that she was doing me a massive favour.
I suppose she thought she enriched my life and I couldnt cope without her...how can a person have such a lack of insight?

Chest yes I had a v religious upbringing (Methodist). Am an atheist now though and have been for nearly 30 years. The logic of there being a god just escapes me.

For a long time I blamed the church for my parents. But very recently I've realised that my parents were attracted to religion because it echoed a lot of their core beliefs about themselves and reinforced them, but religion didn't actually make them like that, their families did. So I don't blame religion any more. There are plenty of well adjusted, healthily sane people who go to church.

I do wonder though, now I've read about codependency, if some brands of organised religion are kind of collective acts of codependency. That's probably an unpopular view though!

@okapoka thankyou for your kind reply, sounds startingly similar i too wouldnt toe the line and queried things leading to outrageous behaviour. I guess it takes years to process, i had cbt which helped as did my husband. Can i ask how long you have been VLC? Does dh have siblings? If so do they have difficulties. Dh has three brothers the eldest knows what they are like and distance themselves. The other two and their wives still all have normal contact.
I like that about not accepting the label she also called me a wicked snake which does prey on me. It is a real bad habit ruminating and i do indulge it and have to stop it. I keep thinking they are educated, professional people surely theu can see presenting a seven point list of complaints after a family wedding with eg you didnt pay mil enough attention.
Well done getting to a healthy distance where you can be a step back and help your husband. I am not at that stage yet. I feel so sorry for him for the vile way she has spoken to him and treated him. I guess it is one of these things that will flare up thanks xx

Thanks for the replies, just getting down the small piece of the story and getting a response is so helpful.

Attila your question about her family is interesting because I have been thinking about this too. She seemed to have a difficult relationship with her mum, I an recall visiting when I was about 7, I think there was an argument and we left. I don't think they spoke again before she died. This is partly what worries me about me repeating her behaviour, but I think she was running from the conflict rather that creating conflict, which I feel I am doing here😀.

My dad is not around, they divorced when I was about 3. He left her. My dad always visited me and I spent weekends with him and his new wife. My stepmum was a great woman, she died a few years ago. I found it hard to maintain contact with my dad once I was an adult. I think I felt his always wanted so much from me, now reflecting on this I feel sad about the lack of contact.

Provider - I did respond and tell her I would respect her decision. I wanted her to understand this was her choice ( I know she would blame that on me too). She has texted me and rung me later (which I ignored) saying she is sorry and can she hear my DS voice, but none of this solves the lies which She denied, also who says shit like that to their kids!

I don't think she thinks I need her and although this all makes me sad I don't need her, she has shown me little physical and emotional support over the years. It's weird though because what she thinks about me on some level is important, her house is a mess yet I tidy before she comes!

She is so childish and selfish that she cannot see things from anyone else's point of view, she doesn't act like a parent but expects so much from me. She behaves like a child and will choose to live in denial rather than sort something out.

I think I will look at the counselling, does anyone have any experience of the eye movement psychological treatment? I have very few memories of my childhood which I believe to be odd, a friend has suggested this may be a good way to explore this.

EMDR is good for PTSD and severe trauma (for e.g. ex service men), not sure about it otherwise...

her house is a mess yet I tidy before she comes!

I wonder if this is less because you value her opinion and more because you are trying to avoid giving her anything to attack you about? I mean I say that because I used to do the same thing.

I haven't tried EMDR but I've heard people say good things about it. I think the best is if you can find someone who does EMDR but who also does traditional talking therapy, who can sympathetically help you surface the memories.

spare Those are really interesting ideas - what attracted them to religion, and to what extent certain types of religion allow for/ encourage a mass codependency. That's really really interesting and I'll be thinking this over. I don't know where I am at with it all. Last night was the first time I let myself say out loud that I am having problems with religion stuff. Thanks for your reply.

Coconut70 - the lowering of contact has been a slow process spanning several years, but it has only been in the last 18 months that I would class it as VLC (and I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't - but I think it is nearly as low as I can get away considering we live within walking distance). It has been very easy. I simply stopped making any effort and now feel almost no guilt about it.

DH had one sibling and their relationship is estranged - not completely but almost. I would describe it as PIL liked to have them competing for their affections and, I am 99.99% convinced lie to each of them about the other one. There are lots of stories here. They will wish each other a happy birthday, via text, but that is about it. When we did meet up occasionally (they live 3.5 hrs away) - PIL would turn up too! Twice for a meal that I was cooking and I hadn't invited them to. Once we were meeting up 100 miles away and PIL popped up there too, without telling us they were going! The last time we met up PIL looked absolutely horrified - as there was no way they could stop it or come along. That was 2 years ago. Then 18 months ago PIL did there most damaging bit of shit stirring and that has been that. SIL has a real nasty streak though so...and, as far as I am aware, hasn't worked out what has been going on yet. The siblings definitely still blame each other (although DH now recognises his parents part in this).

I know I am talking in vagaries - don't like to be too specific! Happy to chat if you PM though.

I think I've still got a fair distance to go - they definitely do take up headspace almost every single day.

Just had a really odd encounter with my parents this morning. They are going away on holiday today and its his birthday while away so wanted to give him his cards before he went. He also said yesterday would be nice to see me and DS before he went away. My mother isnt really speaking to me over petty things. I text my DM so see when i could drop the card off today. She said she was busy and not around. So i text my DF and he said he was at work so i said id come to his unit to see him. So i did and he is absolutely fine with me. We never really have issues. Anyway i said does DM want to see her grandson before we go. He said yes but i better ring her as you two havent been getting along. I agreed. Then he rang her and made out i weren't there with him. When he got off the phone he said best not tell her you were here alone otherwise she will go off in a mood. So my DF went back to his home first and then i had to act that was the first time id see him today. So strange! My DM then continued to ignore me and pour her affection over my DS.
She made me feel like a little kid again and like id done something wrong. You could see from my dads face he felt uncomfortable and he said before that i should just bite my lip if my DM says anything.
Ahhh im fed up with this mind games from my DM. Why cant she just be normal!!

Chocolatte yes that is a strange and pretty horrible for you.

he said before that i should just bite my lip if my DM says anything Reading that, my head is screaming 'but why should you?'.

I suspect your dad is similar to lots of the dads talked about on here, who are married to our Narc mothers. My dad (now deceased) was one of them too. He would always, always agree with my M and take her side, but looking back I don't think it was through love or loyalty, it was fear of what she could/would do if he didn't agree with her. I can count on one hand the times he dared to disagree with her - and without going into detail, they were times when she was definitely at fault, and she went absolutely batshit at him for daring to argue with her (now I can see they were narcissistic rages).

Each and every time she threatened him with ultimatums and left him with nowhere to go other than walk away or put up with it - so he put up with it, grovelled his way back into her good books and let whatever she'd done wrong go by the wayside. Over the years he retreated more and more into his shell and kind of disengaged with everybody around him, but I imagine if he had lived long enough for me to have 'adult to adult' conversations with him, they would have been similar to yours.

For a long time I felt really sorry for him/my memories of him, because in my mind he was the innocent party and she was the abusive narc. But I've come to realise that he was also responsible for my abuse, as my mother was. Because he was an adult with equal responsibility for me as a child, and for whatever reason, he chose to stand back and allow my M to treat me badly, with very little intervention.

I don't think it was his fault as such, because he was a very damaged person when he met my M (abusive and dysfunctional family from a very young age). So I think she found in him somebody she could 'rule' because he had nobody else if he didn't have her. But I do feel angry with him that he let me down too, by enabling her behaviour and not stepping in to stop it.

I tie myself up in knots trying to work out who's 'fault' it all is. If it's not my dad's fault because of his abusive childhood, does it also mean it wasn't actually my mum's fault that she's a narc and behaved as such, because she probably got that from somebody else too?

I suppose the point is, we just need to realise that none of it was our fault, because we were children. They were adults and had the choice to not let it carry on into our generation, but they didn't. Which makes me feel very proud of myself that I've not treated my children the same way - so I've at least managed to do something right

Sorry for the brain dump.

Btw - I am now 12 weeks NC with my M. I admit I am spending a lot of time (maybe too much) going over it all in my mind, but I feel so much calmer overall, as if I have escaped from prison or something, which may sound a bit strange

And if it makes any sense, I am actually quite sad to find I haven't missed her at all, not one bit. I think I had put so many barriers up with her over the years that our relationship was completely superficial anyway, so there is nothing to miss.

I was also worried about what my DC might think about her suddenly 'disappearing' - and I have been watching them really closely for any signs they may be unhappy or worried about the situation. But I really believe (and DH agrees) that they are absolutely fine; and not bothered at all. Which I found strange at first, but as DH reminds me, my M never used to actually do anything with them anyway. She would come round, sit on the sofa complaining about life, and watch the tv a bit (whilst also complaining about whatever was on...). And then complain that they wouldn't want to sit there with her .

I have religiously worked my way through Toxic Parents and have drafted a letter to send to my mother. I am struggling to have the courage to send it. Partly because I need someone to look it over for me because it contains some really difficult disclosures which she has never known about before and so that can be sure that I have used a tone which is not judging, just saying, this happened, this was the effect on me, this is what I want and these are my boundaries.

I am not in therapy so I dont have a therapist I can share it with. My partner does not read anything past the first paragraph and does not think its a good idea anyway. My son knows what my mother is like but this is innapropriate stuff for him to have to read. I have one friend I can ask but I am wondering what others have done if they have written and sent the letter suggested by Susan Foward?