"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's May 2017, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Sorry to hear that Just

You are doing the right thing going NC. You say 'where do you go from here' - imo you cannot salvage any sort of relationship with somebody who is prepared to do what your M has. Everybody seems to have their 'last straw' moment - I did ten weeks ago and have been NC since. It's almost as if you wait for the narc to do something bad enough to give you 'permission' to go NC. Although the truth is, they have probably been 'bad enough' for years.

I'm not saying it's easy but imo once you've made that decision, there is light at the end of the tunnel

Hello. I haven't posted in an absolute age. I'm a bit wary of posting so much detail, but I really want to write it down. I felt safe here when I did so years ago.

Please don't feel obliged to read this, it's so long and there's so much more to it. I just need an outlet to stop me imploding . Sometimes tears come, unusual for good old controlled me. I just needed to write it down.

My mother is a narc. Emotionally abusive and disengaged when I was small, got worse into teenage years etc, the classic story.

I am 48 with two young DC. I worked through a lot of her horrible abuse when I had the children-the scales fell from my eyes, as they often do, and the missing bits of the jigsaw were put in place (up to that point I had a growing sense that I was not the things she said I was over the years, that I was not in fact to blame, but hilariously , I never joined the dots and saw her role in it all. As I say, classic I suppose).

Anyway, we have rumbled on. I live 250 miles from her and the rest of my family. Suits me fine. My siblings are in the FOG, one way or another, but they were not singled out in the same way I was and continue to be. It's this I'm struggling with I suppose.

I was at her house with my dc at Easter for a few days when we had a short discussion about inheritance tax (I'm a lawyer). Her house came up. She informed me that she had left the house to my two siblings and split the rest of her estate threeways.

Now, that's up to her in one sense. I was left a house, a very lovely house, by my dad who died a few years ago. He always said to me that he had divided things fairly in his eyes as my siblings are employed in the family business and I was not. They would get the (quite amazing, apparently) pensions and other investments my shrewd dad had made, and I would get the house (that I loved and love). Everything else would be split threeways.

Ok, so far so whatever. I never really gave it any thought beyond a couple of casual conversations.

My mother has always disliked the house I live in. We would all visit as dc, and it is very rural and she didn't like it like dad and I loved it, and my brother also loved it too. She wanted dad to sell itand she was very very angry when she found out I had got a job near it and had asked dad if I could move into it and he said yes. That was about 18 years ago.

My dad died. He left everything to mother. So when I say he left me the house, I mean he left it up to her to divide everything up. But it was a given (or so I thought) that the house would come to me (and by then I had a dc and was pregnant with the second) that the house would be transferred to me and I never even questioned it as I recalled the things dad used to say about the threeways split.

So, back to Easter. My mother informs me that it was her decision to transfer the house to me, that dad's wishes had nothing to do with it. She made aggressive play about it being HERS, about everything being HERS and when I told her what dad had said to me about splitting everything, she accused me of lying, and that he never said anything like that to her. She said as she had 'given' me the house (and technically she had of course, though it was in dad's name-not that that matters) I was to be excluded from the family home.

Now, I'm not asking about this in AIBU. I am talking to you as people who have been through this. In aibu people would probably say suck it up, you have a house, this is about money. But it isn't.

I know I am not going to be financially hard done by, as things currently stand. That's not my problem.

Also in that discussion she was outraged about me saying that dad had said the other two would be well taken care of by the business. She turned to me and said if I felt like that I shouldn't have bothered becoming a lawyer and should've gone to work with the family firm. This is despite there being no job! (It is a v small firm), and despite the fact that I was groomed to be a bloody people pleaser all my life, desperately seeking my mother's approval (pathetic), and this was partly why I had qualified in the first place! She threw it all back in my face.

She saw nothing wrong with telling me I made stuff up about my dad. Why on earth would I do that? She couldn't really answer.

I know she is jealous and bitter about my much better relationship with my dad, I know this. Knowing it doesn't make it any easier.

I spoke to my Db after the altercation. He seemed to think it was about money. I said to him-do you not understand? -I am standing in my bedroom of my so-called family home and I have just been told I will be excluded from it when she is dead. It is the symbolism of it. She has always wanted to treat me like this, to cut me off and away from my siblings, and she has done it.

Bravo mother.

My brother even said to me he didn't think she was clever enough to do stuff like that. I said it's not about being clever. It's a thread that runs through her. She treats me like the bastard child, and I will never know why.

It is just another way of her underlining to me that I don't matter, whilst simultaneously telling me that I'm mad and making things up.

We come to now. I have 'enabled' (I know, I know!) contact between her and my dc about three or four times in phone calls. She has not rung to speak to them since Easter. When they last spoke to her she talked to me and played the victim. She said I had said hurtful things (I told her that she was 'not the mother I had hoped she would be when I was younger'. Apparently unforgivable). She expected an apology. She didn't get one. We had another row and I told her she was deep in denial about her behaviour and put the phone down. That was about a month ago. She had said (in a tone of outrage) that of COURSE she would call the children. She hasn't.

She claims she has never treated me differently. Now she is also doing it to my dc-every June she sends them some money for their savings accounts, a small but valuable sum to them and the future. She hasn't sent it. To punish me I suppose, but she is punishing them! (They are completely unaware of course).

I am not really expecting responses. It's long, I'm going on. I just wanted to get it written down. People tell me I'm the strongest person they know. I'm struggling. The inequity, the injustice. I've always been scrupulously fair, obsessive about not being unfair. This is where it comes from.
This has cut me adrift in my head and heart from my dsis and dbro. I feel it like a betrayal. They will never understand and god that makes me feel isolated.

I know there's nothing I can do. Plus, she is clearly waiting for me to call her and apologise. Not going to happen. I think this might be it, total nc.

Hi Peppermint. I don't really have any answers but didn't want to read and run.

I'm sorry if I've misunderstood any of the situation from your post - the way I read it your siblings work for the 'family business' - ie for your mum? And therefore must live quite close to her. And you are 250 miles away. That sounds to me as if you have managed to make the break away from your M, whereas they are probably unhealthily enmeshed with her. So also maybe you have been 'set up' as the scapegoat, and your siblings are the golden children - as long as they behave themselves that is.

Does the house 'left' to you by your dad legally belong to you now?

If so (or even if not so) I would cut my losses with this whole disfunctional mess of a family. Enjoy the home you love and the family you have (ie your DC/partner/whoever). And leave them to squabble over the rest of it. My gut feeling is that your M resents the hell out of the fact that your dad loved you, gave you the house you loved, and that you have escaped her clutches (physically at least..).

She has also shown you first hand how much she really cares about your DC - because at the first sign of you 'misbehaving' she will cut them dead to punish you. Clearly with no thought of how it may affect them.

Yes go NC. And stop 'enabling' contact between you and your precious DC now you know for sure how much she really cares about them. Protect them from ever getting close to her again because you know you cannot trust her with them.

I totally get the feeling of being excluded from your family home. I've been there myself and it is devastating. But now looking back, I seriously wondered what I was trying to keep myself connected to. It was bricks and mortar, yes with some good memories in, but a hell of a lot more miserable and disturbing ones. Let them keep it with all the toxic memories it holds.

I'm probably projecting a fair bit here , but you do not need these people in your life

Peppermint your M sounds horrible.

I will echo what Flump's just said about the family home being just bricks and mortar. Your 'real' home, like your real identity, is the one you make for yourself (and your own family). For me, my old family home represents everything I'd like to leave behind. I did feel an emotional attachment to it once but I was thinking about it the other day and realised I don't any more. However, I appreciate that I've come to that realisation in my own good time and you've had the situation forced on you, which is very different, so I can understand that you are angry and upset.

Your M is unfair because she's a narc and that's how they are. They put themselves first, and often what they do doesn't have any rhyme or reason to anyone except themselves, and doesn't follow accepted rules about what's good and right and what isn't. It's just about them. I think Flump's spot-on in her analysis of your M's motives.

The only way you can make a life for yourself and your DC that is fairer than the one she is offering is to do as you already have and go NC. But I think you know that already. Do whatever you need to to get through it - rant on here, write imaginary letters to people, talk to friends, get therapy - but don't give in and make contact again.

Thank you, you're both very kind to respond. We do that thing, don't we, where we think it's 'self indulgent' (another of my mother's favourite accusations) to let it all out, at least I do.

That just reminded me, when we had the face to face row about the house, she told me I was 'conceited' to think I was treated differently!! I remember thinking wow, if one of my kids just said that stuff to me I would be devastated and I would be asking them to tell me more, to explain, so I could see what I had done to them to make them think that way, and I would try to put it right, not immediately dismiss them as conceited!

Anyway, yes, you are quite right in your analysis. And yes, luckily the house is legally mine. I have a lot to be thankful for, a huge amount.

I always thought that my siblings and I would be as one and always be close after her death. But it looks like that is not going to be the way.

Thank you also for saying my mum sounds horrible. Even that small sentence is a validation. She does, doesn't she?! She is!

Thank you xxx

Just want to join in really. I don't have much to add right now, except I relate to so many of you.

You're welcome Peppermint

And absolutely yes re thinking we're being self-indulgent... I have to remind myself on a daily basis that it's absolutely ok to put my feelings first. My M would regularly call me a drama queen if I dared to disagree with or question her shitty treatment of me. Her last remark before I went NC and was telling her that I would no longer allow her abusive behaviour was that I needed to 'grow up' . It's so weird it's almost funny really.

Anyway - we'll all get there

Hi Big you've found the right place

And I just wanted to say I love your username - it's made me feel all cosy on a grey rainy afternoon...

Peppermint I'd wager your M is behaving like that as a control thing. You possibly offended her in some way like not completely finishing a cup of tea she once made or having nicer curtains than she has. Honestly, they can be that petty.

Flump That man sounds like a proper creep! You wondered why she would want someone who didn't want her, but she didn't and that's why he got shown the door. I don't think she's annoyed that he made a play for you as such, I think she's ultimately annoyed because you have committed the heinous crime of being chief witness to her being second best/runner up, no N ever wants that and for it to be witnessed, good grief. It's no wonder she's harbouring a grudge and attempting to re-write history, your version does not suit at all.

Just My mum manipulated me into signing my endowment over to her. She had no regard to my finances, I was a single parent with no savings, but she wanted a new kitchen and conservatory... My M quite proudly states that she always gets her own way. Ripping your kids off is beyond selfish but I doubt my M has ever felt guilty.

I'm not sure what to do. I didn't see my parents last week because I had an appointment. I'm due to see them at the usual set in stone time, day and place this Friday but my dad text me this morning just saying 'Moving house Friday'. My mind went into fix it mode and immediately figured if I shift a few things about I'll be able to see them on Thursday instead but I stopped myself from saying that, just in time! Instead I just replied 'How exciting, that'll keep you busy lol'. I got nothing back.

I'm not sure what to do now. I feel like I should ask what's going on, or find out if they want me to see them on another day instead but my new mind is saying to just leave it, if they want something from me then wait and see if they ask, don't offer. But If I don't hear from them do I just turn up as usual on Friday or do I assume they'll be too busy? I know I'd be too busy if it were me but they could be factoring in meeting as usual with having a break and a rest. If I simply don't turn up and they do they'll be furious and see it as I've let them down. So that makes me feel like I should ask what's going on.

Treacle what do you want to do? Are you excited at the prospect of not seeing them for another week? If that's the case, you could send another text telling them that as you know they'll be busy this week you'll see them next week, same time same place, hope the move goes OK etc etc.

If on the other hand you want to catch up on their news, hear about the move, tell them you're still available at the usual time and ask if they will be able to make it.

I think they key here is to honestly assess what you really want (not what you think you ought to do) and tell them that.

PS 'excited' mightn't have been quite the right word... You could insert any other positive emotion there!

Thank you Spare I'm not entirely sure what it is I want. I wasn't feeling so anxious about seeing them this week though so if they do still want to meet I'm okay about that. I think. I've got until the actual day to decide what or if I text so I'll try and decide what to say. I suppose ideally I'd like for me to have a natural reaction to things like this but instead I'm wondering what's going on and it's making me feel uncomfortable. I wonder if it's triggering me slightly or if it's because I'm just not used to making my own decisions when it comes to them. I'll have a ponder.

If it were anyone else in the world I'd outright ask if it meant we were still on for a brew (or if they wanted me to come round to their new house) so I don't know why I'm holding back from asking that to my dad. I'm not thinking yippeeeee they can't make it though, which I'd have thought I would have done.

Hello bigyellowjumper!

frami well done! Stay strong.
Your mother's already so unpleasant when you enforce very gentle boundaries with her (like going home so you can go back to work FFS!) that she probably won't have anything more in her arsenal for now, when you're starting to properly speak your mind. So there's that. I mean reading back, you'd be totally entitled to tell her to fuck right off, and the rest of the family as well if they join her side. It's going to make very little difference to your poor dad. But then I am saying this from the point of view of someone who is NC with her entire extended family... it was different for me, my mother isolated me and my dad from the rest of the family so there were no strong ties for me.

I feel your pain on all the stuff with the carers. My parents didn't have much money so when my dad got ill my mother had no option but to take up the care options available. But my god, the rampant paranoia. She was on the phone to the manager like 3 or 4 times a day and prided herself in being able to tell them how to do the job. I didn't live nearby, so when I wasn't there she would phone me up and then it would be two hours on the phone trying to talk her back down because someone had said something you could interpret as rude (if you were as paranoid as all hell) or two different doctors had referred to a treatment by two slightly different names or whatever.
She kept it civil right up till the day before my dad's funeral and then when my DH was out buying a paper she started a fight about nothing, in the way she always did when I was a kid, and I found my legs were walking themselves out the house. DH came back to me at the door with his suitcase. I was like, we're leaving. So that's how I became the heartless bitch who walked out on her own mother the day before her dad's funeral. Where's the eyeroll emoji?
I got pulled back in and kept in contact with her for another 5 years after that. It was guilt. I used to say she was my only mother and I was her only child, so I should put up with it. But you know what, you don't have to put up with this shit. My god the woman won't even allow you to be sick.
I didn't read your SH post from 2016 sorry so you might have already answered this, but have you read Toxic Parents or any of the other books in the OP? I would recommend Toxic Parents to you but also especially to your DH, because there's things where e.g. he wanted you guys to go visit one time and then two weeks later, to show the family that you were still caring for your dad, something like that? Basically that your DH was getting involved in the politics of your family. He sounds like he has really got his head screwed on and he is really good at protecting you and I wonder, if he read a bit about how the dysfunction all works, whether he might encourage you to step back a bit. And that would be really good!

Sorry I am posting and running, wanted to say hello to everyone else and I know I've probably cross posted with half a dozen people here now. This week's been a bit mental

Hi everyone. I had a bit of a 'revelation' last night - might not sound much and it's so obvious really I don't know why I didn't see it years ago. It's that, as an adult, I have never had any long periods of getting on well with my mother. And that I've always known that there is something weird/lacking in our relationship.

My dad died when I was young and I left home soon after - and so did my sister. And I thought I should feel guilty about 'leaving her' but I didn't. I couldn't escape fast enough... I remember not understanding why I didn't feel guilty - if that makes sense?

Then v soon after she moved her new boyfriend in and we hardly saw each other for a few years - I couldn't stand him, or her, at the time, I felt like I just didn't know who she had turned into.

Then - and this makes me sound awful, I know, she turned up to tell me she had cancer, and I remember sitting there thinking "this is a terrible thing, so why don't I feel anything?" Because I just felt numb. During her treatments I still hardly saw her - I never took her to hospital appointments, hardly visited. It was like the fact that she was ill and genuinely in need just made me put a huge barrier up (or see one that was already there?) because I just could not show love and compassion to her. The interesting thing is, for those years, my sis stayed right away from her too. My mums boyfriend was the one who looked after her. My mum has sometimes thrown it at us that he was the only person there for her then - and she's right. But I bet she's never tried to work out why....

So anyway, I realise now that its only since having DC that my sis and I have had any kind of 'regular' contact with our mum. And it makes me wonder why we did that.

Sorry I'm rambling, I'm just trying to make some sense of it in my head...

So anyway, I realise now that its only since having DC that my sis and I have had any kind of 'regular' contact with our mum. And it makes me wonder why we did that.

Maybe that is because you were hoping that your mother would behave better with your DC this time around despite your own experiences to the contrary. Your bringing new life into the world did not fundamentally change your abusive parent into a loving family member. But adult children of narcissists (ACONs) seem to show a natural affinity for believing in this work of fiction. They have always wanted our parent to be loving to us, and now we want our parent to be a loving grandparent. What we want and what we end up with are two very different things. Where such people usually get tripped up is their failure to recognize the adaptability of the narcissist to changing circumstances.

Thank you Attila you have hit the nail on the head, as always

Another aspect of that is that when my first child was born, I was kind of taken aback by how much she seemed to utterly adore him from the moment he was born. It certainly looked as if she loved him very much, and for years she seemed to put him on a pedestal and he could do no wrong (to the extent of when he was little and I would tell him off at times, she would always jump in to defend him and go against what I was asking..).

Yes that was annoying, but I think when he was born it was lovely to see how much she loved him. Pathetic to admit, but maybe I was finally seeing some 'genuine' love from my M - not directly but to my child, so it had to mean she loved me too, right?

Yes, that is it Attila.

I recall thinking that I was getting on better with my mother since I had had dc (fiction). Then I worried I was letting them be some kind of buffer between her and me. It was ok when they were teeny tiny, and we live far away from her anyway, so contact was sporadic.

But we all live in hope don't we? -I mean in every aspect of our lives. I think I'm an optimist, and even though I logically know that my mother is horrendous, sometimes she can be nice and it can get to me! You think we'd learn!

As said upthread, we are not speaking as she thinks I have grievously offended her, but for the last three years or so my dc have gone to stay with her for two whole weeks to help with the summer hols as I must work. Of course I have had to deal with all the 'I am so magnanimous ' crap from her , but it's been genuinely practically helpful so I let it roll of course.

I had misgivings this year as last year my daughter (note, not my son!) came on the phone to me really crying saying my mother was being mean and she didn't know why. I jollied her up as best I could but I never really got to the bottom of it. I tried to broach it with my mother and she's just dismissed my daughter's feelings (of course).

Fast forward to all the trouble this Easter I refer to above, and the penny dropped (clunk, I am so dense!) -my mother has started to do a number on my daughter!

So I am glad really, glad that they are not going there this summer. I need to keep them away from her.

Mother doesn't know they're not going. I daresay she is waiting for me to call and ask and she will be very put out when the phone call doesn't come. But they need protecting.

But we all live in hope don't we? -I mean in every aspect of our lives. I think I'm an optimist, and even though I logically know that my mother is horrendous, sometimes she can be nice and it can get to me! You think we'd learn!

Yes I agree with that completely. I also think it's that it's human nature to want your mother to love you - and it's therefore hard to give up on that idea. And we are 'nice' people, ie not narcissists like our mothers. Therefore we strive to see the good in people - even them

My parents want me to live near them and my dad always tells me how lonwly their life is. How horrid the city I live in is for my Son. How my Son and I need them to help and he shouldn't be in full time childcare.

They live in somewhere I don't like living and I want to make a,life for myself in the city I currently live.

I spend every day feeling guilty that I don't move nearer as their only other child is disabled. I don't know how to get over it.

Hi all. Have been reading all your posts. for you all

Question that I am struggling with. If it's sometimes nice does that mean it's OK or is it still bad?

In a domestic abuse context, I've often heard it said (and said myself) that if the perpetrator is nice 90% of the time, but abusive 10% of the time - it's not a case of majority wins - even 1% abuse means that the whole thing is abusive and therefore bad and you must walk away.

I can't apply it to my family. They're being nice right now so I'm crippled by self doubt. It's like it's gaslighting me. Surely I should enjoy it and be grateful. Rather than constantly moan on and focus on the bad stuff?

Also I find it impossible to think of any bad intent - I know it's often said on here about them drawing you closer to hurt you again - but I don't see those bad intentions and feel guilty even thinking it?

I think I just need some reassurance or something really, sorry I feel like this is a silly post.

Not a daft question to ask at all Chest.

I've often written this comment:-

"The only acceptable level of abuse within a relationship is none".

Abusers are not nasty all the time and sometimes they can also be quite plausible to those in the outside world. A good description I have seen of them on this site is "street angel, house devil". Abuse is also about power and control.

Your family of origin are still abusing you by gaslighting you. Its a well worn tactic employed by such disordered people. You certainly do not have to enjoy it and feel grateful!. Their apparent niceness is not nice at all; they could also be softening you up to do something really nasty to you.

Hello, new on stately homes and have had a name change but have been on MN a few years. Will do my best to keep up with everyone and will read through the full thread this evening.

I am really struggling with my parents at the mo and apologise if this is long! I have a mum and step-dad (although they are separated) and a dad and step-mum, my parents divorced when I was little and can't remember a time before then or before my step parents.

My mum was straight forwardly emotionally abusive during my childhood, told me it would have been better if I had never been born, constantly told me I was stupid and useless etc. Criticised everything I did and constantly moved the goal posts. I was also expected to do a lot of care of my siblings, far beyond what would be reasonable.

I alternated weeks between my parents and much preferred being at my Dad and step-mums but now as an adult I realise that that was purely because it was better than the alternative. My step-mum is extremely controlling and as a child I was expected to manage her bad moods and keep her happy. Every evening my dad would warn me she was in a bad mood and I would spend the whole evening trying to calm her down.

Now I actually have a civil relationship with my mum. She is no longer abusive and although we will never have a mother/daughter relationship we get on OK although what happened to me as a child still has a massive impact on my life.

It's my step-mum who is the issue now. She continues to be very controlling and critical of everything I do. Every time I have announced an event in my life (moving in with DH, engagement, pregnant etc) it has been met with a barrage of negativity which has ruined all these events for me.

Contact is very much on their terms and they make very little effort and don't seem interested in us beyond what they can control. I dread phone calls and just wish I could go NC but I am not strong enough.

I am about to start counselling which I hope will help as it has such a big impact on my day to day life. I am prone to negativity and catastrophising.

One area where I am really upset is in terms of the family I am creating with DH. I always imagined having a large, loving family but unfortunately we really struggled with DS as a baby and our marriage almost fell apart. Therefore DH has had the snip and I am having to come to terms with the fact that I won't have that family. It makes me angry with my parents as I feel that if they had offered any kind of support perhaps things would have been different. I was so alone in that first year with no-one to talk to about how hard it was and no-one who cared about me. All around me I saw people being supported by their families and it hurt so much (still does to be honest).

Anyway sorry for the rant, just need people to talk to who understand. DH tries to he sympathetic but he has a great relationship with his mum and just cannot fathom how I feel.

Hey Pwysyddynysgubor that's a lot to deal with. No contact is a scary prospect. For me it will come when toxic parent dies. Minimal contact can be worked towards though. Set small goals. And remember it's not your fault.

Hi Pwysyddynysgubor

Your biological parents have both failed you abjectly and their behaviours will have certainly had an impact on your day to day life now.

Its also not your fault your stepmother is the way she is but I would not let your dad off the hook either. Women like your stepmother always need a willing enabler to help them. He is truly a weak bystander of a man who has failed to protect you from her abuse of you and indeed has been complicit. He is also her hatchet man as well.

I would certainly look to further lower all contact with all your relatives actually. Has your mother actually taken any responsibility for her actions and has truly apologised for same?. If not I would also proceed re her with great caution. These people were not good parents to you, they could well be rubbish as grandparent figures to your child as well. I would keep them well away from your child.

Re your comment:-

"It makes me angry with my parents as I feel that if they had offered any kind of support perhaps things would have been different. I was so alone in that first year with no-one to talk to about how hard it was and no-one who cared about me. All around me I saw people being supported by their families and it hurt so much (still does to be honest)".

Unfortunately your parents only cared about their own selves and threw you under the bus. I can relate to your feelings in the above because I also very much felt like that (my parents are basically selfish and disinterested in my family unit and my surviving inlaw is a scheming piece of work. Her late H also undervalued the relationship as narcissists can do). It was friends who got me through the early years ultimately and we got through it in spite of them.

How do you get along with your siblings these days; do you have a relationship with them?. How do they get on with their parents?

I hope the counselling is helpful to you going forward, you may also want to read the resources at the start of this thread too. Do let us know how you get on.