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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

976 replies

toomuchtooold · 28/05/2017 10:28

It's May 2017, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

OP posts:
winecakeandchoc · 24/06/2017 11:56

Morning,

Sorry im just jumping on this thread but im sat in tears and didnt know who else to talk to other than you guys who all understand.

This is probably the most down and low ive felt in a while.

So this morning my LB is with his dad and hes run out of milk. I was due to pick some up this morning at the pharmacy and his medicine to run over to them. So I did about half 10 this morning. On the way i see my dads van drive past. I knew he was coming over at some point today but they never give me a time, just expect i'll always be there. They have keys to my place too but he didnt bring them with him. So i rang him in the car and explained i'll be half an hour. He got in a huff and hung up. I got back and he werent there. I text him saying where are you and he replied saying i've gone home to do work on my place now. Enjoy your weekend.
They told me not to make any plans this weekend to help them so i havent, except this 1 half a hour to take my LB his medicine and milk. Apparently im in the wrong for not telling him i was going out for half hour but when i ask what time they will be over they always say i dont know. Always!! So what i am suppose to do, sit in all the time with no plans and wait for them?? Whenever i try to voice my views i get talked down. Last time they were here i was left in floods of tears, alone in my house and they just left me.
It's been good for a while now and my mum has been around alot. Shes been overly nice which isnt normally like her. So i guess i thought things had changed. How wrong i was.

troodiedoo · 24/06/2017 12:07

Hey winecakeandchoc don't let them get you down. Your time is yours. Do something nice this afternoon.

Next time give them a window that is convenient for you, say between 10-11. Flowers

winecakeandchoc · 24/06/2017 12:18

Thanks troodiedoo I'm trying not to. But feeling like im being kicked when im down. Im seeing my sister later tonight but apart from that i have no plans because of them.

Not like i have many friends anyway, im the only one out of them who has a child so our lives are very different now. My parents know this but still insists on me having no plans

TreacleChin · 24/06/2017 12:58

Winecakeandchoc It sounds very much like 'do as I want/say or feel my wrath'. I'm so sorry you're being treated like that. It's bullying, it's no wonder you feel down and tearful.

Is there any way you can not see them, or cut down when you see them or meet them away from your house or theirs until you gather your strength? Xx

famsham · 24/06/2017 15:21

chocolate No judgment, in a earlier post I wrote about not being given the emotional literacy to express the consequences of abuse . When we don't have this we are driven to other methods to express the pain.

I would echo PPs about put a buffer on contact between your son and your Mother. Hate to say it, but he maybe just another tool to her. He's the GC and you're the SG. You don't want to be triangulated with your own child.

wineandchoc - This is just another way of controlling you.

They wanted to keep you in a specific location, kind of like a hostage, and it triggered their wrath when, very understandably life took you in another direction.

Your Mother's "niceness" is just more gaslighting.

Neither of these behaviour patterns are actions of healthy people

You did nothing wrong here - it actually is all them. I'm so sorry.

I'm also sorry, but I don't think they will ever change.

winecakeandchoc · 24/06/2017 15:56

treacle you would be right. It has been like that with them my whole life. I've alway conformed to what they have said for fear of their wrath. My mum admits she used to be a bully at school, I think she still has that mentality towards me as she says im an "easy target" and never stand up for myself. Yea i guess i could back off a bit. They would be more upset that they wouldnt see their grandson than me anyway.

famsham yea i guess so. I hadnt thought of it like that. I feel like i hadnt done anything wrong to leave my own home to help my son for half a hour. But then my dad made me feel like i had done wrong and blamed me and said i always make excuses. They always make me feel confused and rubbish about myself. I also think youre right and they wont change. Just being naive and silly to think they will one day

troodiedoo · 24/06/2017 17:24

Excellent summary famsham eloquently put.

famsham · 24/06/2017 17:49

Thanks troodiedoo - sigh, so much easier to see and rationalise when it's someone else isn't it..?

TreacleChin · 24/06/2017 18:40

Yea i guess i could back off a bit. They would be more upset that they wouldnt see their grandson than me anyway.

I would have loved to have walked away from my mother and never looked back but I couldn't do it, I wasn't strong enough and there was nothing just bad enough happening at that time to push me to do it. Instead I made smaller decisions. I left earlier than usual, I cried off a few meetings, one time I went as usual but I took my OH with me. I've just done small things so I didn't have to spend as much time with her as I had been doing. It's given me space to think, to reflect and even though it's not been easy I'm getting stronger, I can feel it. I suppose unintentionally I've taken a little power back.

Everyone has their own way of doing things. I hope you find yours.

ChocolatePHD · 25/06/2017 09:49

Morning all.

Need a hand hold. Against everyone's better judgement I decided to let this occasion of my mum having ds go ahead today as he was so excited about it. But I've been in a mess. Bad stomach, mental turmoil, wanting to cry, feeling so exhausted I could sleep all day, so terrified of when she comes, only to the door but it's still pissing me off that she turns up to the door all smiley and superficial to take my child out when she has caused so much damage to me it's a miracle I'm still alive. My arm is covered in SH scars, I nearly committed suicide more times than I can count.

After this I'm going to have to be assertive and it'll have to be once every now and then, not once every few weeks. My mind can't take it.

I will be painted as an arsehole by her for taking a step back but my wellbeing is more important.

TreacleChin · 25/06/2017 11:00

Chocolate I think you're being very wise, seeing things for what they are and identifying what makes you feel like you do, you are so far removed from being an arsehole. You've made the first step to bettering your life. Flowers

ChestOfDrawers · 25/06/2017 14:21

I've got a bit behind and am catching up. Wanted to comment on some things before I forget but haven't rtft yet so sorry if I am x posting!

Toomuch Yes I would tell your therapist how you feel. If nothing else - what a good exercise for you to articulate and assert your needs. And a good test for your relationship with the therapist too. It will be interesting to see how they respond. To play devils advocate a bit - it can be damaging, traumatic, and unsafe to stay in the grieving/ memories all the time. In order to make the work viable and sustainable and safe, its good to have balance. Doing things to look after yourself, to give yourself the energy to do the therapy work. So maybe your therapist meant it like that. On the other hand maybe they didn't lol! Like you I'm not keen on the 'put the guilt to one side' thing - why? How?! I feel like maybe the intention was good but it was said clumsily. In which case hopefully chatting about it will clear that up on both sides and you can move forward with her better able to meet your needs. And by the way - yes, absolutely wallow. I think this is a massively important stage in therapeutic work that sometimes people try and rush you through. You've waited so many years to be able to look at it all - so I think it's good to take a really long long look, until you have satisfied that need. As long as it's safe for you to do so of course. I hope that helps and I hope you can work it out with your therapist so you're not feeling rushed or unheard.

ChestOfDrawers · 25/06/2017 14:21

I've got a bit behind and am catching up. Wanted to comment on some things before I forget but haven't rtft yet so sorry if I am x posting!

Toomuch Yes I would tell your therapist how you feel. If nothing else - what a good exercise for you to articulate and assert your needs. And a good test for your relationship with the therapist too. It will be interesting to see how they respond. To play devils advocate a bit - it can be damaging, traumatic, and unsafe to stay in the grieving/ memories all the time. In order to make the work viable and sustainable and safe, its good to have balance. Doing things to look after yourself, to give yourself the energy to do the therapy work. So maybe your therapist meant it like that. On the other hand maybe they didn't lol! Like you I'm not keen on the 'put the guilt to one side' thing - why? How?! I feel like maybe the intention was good but it was said clumsily. In which case hopefully chatting about it will clear that up on both sides and you can move forward with her better able to meet your needs. And by the way - yes, absolutely wallow. I think this is a massively important stage in therapeutic work that sometimes people try and rush you through. You've waited so many years to be able to look at it all - so I think it's good to take a really long long look, until you have satisfied that need. As long as it's safe for you to do so of course. I hope that helps and I hope you can work it out with your therapist so you're not feeling rushed or unheard.

ChestOfDrawers · 25/06/2017 14:25

Re age 8.

Age 7/8 is a milestone in child brain development and their behaviour and needs change. There is more independence, more impulse control, better emotional regulation, more interest in peers, and so on. And of course it is starting to approach puberty as well.

I read somewhere, can't remember where, about this being a very common time for things to change for a child within a dysfunctional family. Not the same supply as a three year old who is more compliant and needs more from mummy. At 7/8 a child is really getting their 'own mind' - and exploring different opinions, ideas, and choices to those of mummy - which obviously won't go down very well with a narc mummy!

Violet111 · 25/06/2017 14:26

Hi I've been lurking for a while, I'm posting because last night it all got too much, I had a typical sleepless night after contact with my mother, feeling sick to the stomach, tight chested with anxiety and close to a panic attack, something only she causes me to feel. I'm 35 and beginning to hate her, I know that would sound terrible to anyone else who doesn't understand what it's like to have a full on narc as a mother but feel safe saying that here.

Yesterday she bad mouthed me and moaned about me to a good friend of mine who she hardly knows but who she bumped into, this is a new level for her. She then phoned me under the pretence of asking if my dd who is 7 had received her gushing card in the post about how proud of her she is and with a £10 note inside. I said yes sorry it's been a busy week and I've not been well (I have a life long chronic health condition that is genetic but she refuses to acknowledge it and tells everyone I have M.E then alludes to it all being in my head). As always she ignores this, then goes on to tell me about seeing my friend, what a lovely lady she is, how pretty she is and that she's glad I have made a friend (I do have more than one friend, I'm very sociable out of my mother's screwed opinions of me!). She is absolutely obsessed at the moment with me not being at her beck and call every time she phones me, if I don't pick up I get repeated calls, voicemails, then texts saying please phone me asap like it's urgent. Then when I do call back later in the day or the next day, or woe betide I text because I can't face speaking to her and hearing her voice, I am berated for not answering my phone, what is the point in having a mobile phone if you don't answer it, I'm trying to arrange the food for a family lunch and urgently need to know what to get for gd (my dd who she dotes on whilst showing me nothing but contempt). It's laughable how worked up she gets, I can see it's because she feels a lack of control over me, but she always manages to twist it round and make me feel like I'm in the wrong and like a naughty disappointing child again.

My friend then text me last night about something else and then mentioned bumping into my mother, I've told her about my relationship with dm and when I said oh god what did she say about me to you, apparently it was that she'd been trying to get hold of me on the phone (I was out for the afternoon at a friend's bbq with dh and dd and had about 4 missed calls) and is fed up that I never pick up! She complained to my friend that I don't return calls straight away and that she hates texting but it's the only way she can get a fairly swift response from me, my friend found it really odd, then dm said I bet you don't do that to your mother and my friend said well yes sometimes I'm too busy to pick up or am driving etc and can't always call back straight away with 2 young children. It was like she was trying to poison my friend's view of me, friend thought it odd as most mums will make small talk and not stand there moaning about their daughter to one of her friends!

It's left me feeling even more disliked and betrayed by the person who is supposed to show me love and support. She makes it clear she dislikes me, then I'd I ever dare say anything to defend myself she twists it or says I'm over sensitive and she has to walk on egg shells with me and can't say anything without me getting upset or annoyed. That's because everything she says to be is negative and every interaction exhausting emotionally, I'm drained by it. She doesn't even greet me with hello anymore, it's a criticism like I haven't dressed up for the occasion, or that I'm late, didn't return her call etc.

My brother is he golden child and she half hates his wife my sis in law, and half sucks up to her it's weird. She pretends to be the doting grandmother to their children and to my dd but I know with dd she uses every opportunity to show me how much she loves her and not me, like she's always trying to punish me and make sure I know my place in her screwed up world and family set up. I've noticed she dotes most on my brother's little boy, my nephew, and ignores my niece and my dd when he is around which dd is now starting to notice. She definitely prefers boys and has said so to me before. Apparently when I was a baby I was fussy and cried all the time, she had no sleep for the first year of my life but my older brother had never been like that. I wonder if she had post natal depression as she's always said she had days when she didn't want to get out of bed when I was a baby.

Then as a toddler and young child apparently she couldn't communicate with me because she never used to know what I was thinking and she says I always had a blank and sullen look on my face. I remember feeling upset and trying not to cry being told off, or told I'd have no friends if I told lies, nobody would like me or want to play with me, I was also scared because she'd smack me and as a young child how would you know what to say?! I was always berated for not smiling enough and still am. There is so so much I could say, writing this is triggering a feeling of emptiness and sadness but also anger. I could write pages and pages trying to sum up the emotional abuse my whole life that's ongoing.

Does anyone manage to have low contact with their narc dm for the sake of their children and other parents / siblings and manage to use any coping strategies to get through it? I can't go no contact for various reasons. How do you grieve, let go and develop a rhino skin to protect yourself? I would love to have some strategies, when I had cbt a couple of years ago it helped me accept things and see them as they were, I guess I'm still grieving but would like to get to a point where it's water off a duck''s back when she says these things to me or keeps phoning me. I wish I had quick responses to come back with to defend myself but always feel like a naughty overwhelmed child and just want to run away. Can anyone offer any strategies for fairly civil low contact and ways to stand up for myself when she has an answer for everything? Sorry it's such a long rambling first post 😐

Violet111 · 25/06/2017 14:34

Yes agree aged 7-8 I was no longer looking cute and was getting puppy fat, she couldn't dress me up like a doll anymore. I was learning a lot at school like French and Latin which she never had and looking back even though SHE chose for me and db to go to private school and not the village school, she resented me learning what she hadn't. She's always said if she'd been given the education I had she'd have done great things! Plus I was starting to answer back and have my own opinions.

ChestOfDrawers · 25/06/2017 14:58

Wow I'd got behind!

I am currently being treated quite warmly by all members of my family. It was my birthday. So the weeks of silence from siblings was interrupted. It's a shame as I wanted to find out how long it would have gone on for. Instead everyone was nice as it was my birthday.

I feel like a dreadful cynic and so nasty for having expected the worst. They were all nice. What is wrong with me? Have I got it all wrong? I know, I know, a bit of nice doesn't negate the rest but it fucks with me so badly, I just cannot get my head round it at all, I wish it was one or the other, this is so hard to understand. The self doubt is pretty crippling at the moment. Is it all OK now??

The plus side is that I drew some boundaries and insisted on them. Consequently I felt less uncertain and vulnerable. And it went much, much better. So it turns out this boundaries thing is definitely a key thing. Quite exciting really because its like maybe I can make it work if I just work out the right boundaries and keep them?

This is a time of change for some of my family members so our roles are a bit up in the air right now. I think there are enduring roles, and also kind of short term roles that fluctuate if that makes sense. Short term - I was invisible/ peacekeeper/ audience, then I had a month or two of SG, now I seem to be more GC but I don't expect it to last. Over the next month it will settle again after these changes. I wish I could be more in control rather than waiting to see where I end up this time.

Also I had a conversation with a sibling about family stuff. Their take on it was in some respects the same, and in others very different. More critical of F. Less critical of M. No mention of the emotional abuse. Quite focused on hitting/ smacking as children. It made me feel. I don't know. Churned up, upset. Self doubting. Don't know.

ChestOfDrawers · 25/06/2017 15:08

Violet I could have written most of your post. Are you actually me?! :D I don't have much time to reply but wanted to say - lots of Flowers, this is not OK. Secondly - are you in counselling? What support do you have? There are some great book recommendations at the start of this thread which might help you start to work out what is going on and to think about setting some new boundaries and making this safer and more manageable. Thirdly - maybe have a think about how you manage your child's time with them - toxic parents are toxic grandparents too.

Also wanted to say - yes I totally get it about the anxiety. I have a lot of anxiety but the anxiety around my mother/ family is pretty distinct, its a 'special' anxiety.

SpareBedroom · 25/06/2017 16:02

Hi everyone.

Chest I think you've got it about the age 7/8 thing. Children are egocentric up until about 7 - it's a developmental thing. I learned about it when I trained to be a teacher. So I should think the equally egocentric narcissist is well able to manipulate and understand them until then. But at about 7 they start being able to see things from others' points of view, and I suppose then the narcissist can't figure out what's happened to this previously easily managed child, so they start being mean and cruel instead.

Violet I am sorry you are having such a hard time. I can also relate to the anxiety symptoms (and was just talking to DH today about how I am always in a foul mood for 3/4 days before I see my mother). It hasn't totally gone now I am LC, but it's much better. Maybe partly because I now feel more in control of the situation?

There is a really good Reddit post with tips on how to maintain LC - I will try to find it and post it. There is also a good book by Anne Katherine on boundaries which I found invaluable.

Also to everyone - there is a charity called Stand Alone that supports people who are estranged from their family (including partially estranged i.e LC. They have a Facebook page too. Just passing that on in case anyone finds it useful.

SpareBedroom · 25/06/2017 16:13

Chest DSis and I have different perspectives on our family. She experienced more of our F's violence whereas I experienced more of our M's emotional abuse and neglect, so she sees our F as being more responsible whereas I see it as being more our M. I don't think I have any useful advice to give on that other than to say you're not alone with that experience. Flowers

SpareBedroom · 25/06/2017 16:51

Sorry for multiple posts again...

Violet my M also has a real thing about me not replying immediately to phone calls. (Though being insanely passive aggressive she won't say so outright - instead there'll be the third degree on what I was doing at such and such a time when she rang, or some sarc-y comment about how busy I am all the time. In fact it is more often than not because I have to gather my wits before I talk to her and I can't do it 'on the hoof' without getting myself tied in emotional knots, though it was a long time before I admitted that to myself.)

Don't forget that are entitled to speak to her on your terms, and not be emotionally bullied by her.

I always thought actually that the expecting you to pick up the phone thing was a generational thing. It hadn't occurred to me that it was yet another narc-y thing. So another way in which I have inadvertently been excusing her behaviour... Hmm

AttilaTheMeerkat · 25/06/2017 17:32

I am feeling a mix of emotions at present; mainly feeling cross at having a boundary that was clearly set by me ignored.

It was my birthday not so long ago and MIL asked me via DH (twice) what I wanted for my birthday. Knowing all too well that such gifts are really anything but from her I told DH world peace and the ability to remain at my former age!. I made it quite clear to him that I was not expecting anything from her.

Today we go over to MILs and soon after we arrive she hands me this box from Amazon. She apologies to me that it is not wrapped up (its still in its Amazon packaging) but she would like me to have this. I open it and its a limestone cat made in Italy (so an animal and a country that l like very much). But its still unwanted so at some point I am going to quietly put it in the direction of the charity shop (which is where her other gifts to me have gone over the years).

This is from the woman who gave DH and myself separate Christmas cards for some years until I kicked up a stink at my DH who copped it all!. He still denies having a word with her about this even now but I know otherwise as it has never happened since. She is also to me part of the reason why we go on holiday each Christmas.

Thoughts and opinions are always very much appreciated.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 25/06/2017 17:42

Hi Violet,

re your comment:-

"Does anyone manage to have low contact with their narc dm for the sake of their children and other parents / siblings and manage to use any coping strategies to get through it? I can't go no contact for various reasons. How do you grieve, let go and develop a rhino skin to protect yourself?"

Your writings are very much part of the life of an ACON; an adult child of a narcissist. Its all very much typical of ACONs.

May I ask why you cannot go no contact; if you can explain then we could help further. Is it for instance because of pressures from other family members and or other relatives (whom the narcissist really uses as flying monkeys)?. Or even FOG?.

Self preservation is necessary really. It is not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist and you seem still to be in a FOG state with regards to her. I would personally not expose your children to her toxic behaviours; she was not a good parent to you and she never sought the necessary help. She is also really a crap example of a grandmother to your children and will simply use them as narcissistic supply. narcissists are master manipulators and I always run fast in the opposite direction when they are being "nice" because they are then setting you up to do something nasty. They are truly masters of "come closer so I can hurt you again".

Having some set and consistent boundaries could help you but she is going to actively rail against those. Also not seeing her directly and keeping all communications to a minimum (grey rock technique) could also help.
Ultimately you are going to have to accept that its not your fault she is like this. You will also need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got. Its not your fault she is like this; you did not make her that way. Her own family of origin did that lot of damage.

I would suggest you read "Children of the Self Absorbed" written by Nina W Brown and also read the daughters of narcissistic mothers website.

SpareBedroom · 25/06/2017 18:10

Attila I wasn't sure whether to laugh or cry at the limestone cat. I assume from what you said that as well as being unwrapped the present wasn't actually given to you on your actual birthday? So it was like 'I am going to go through the motions of giving you a present but not make much of an effort', which sort of implies that you are not worth making an effort for! Sad

Presents can sometimes be something of an obligation. They imply that you have a reciprocal relationship with that person. Do you want that reciprocal relationship? And if not, is there any way that you can re-enforce your boundary in order to make it clear to her that that relationship isn't something you want?

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