"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's May 2017, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Treacle re the babying and the attention: you've got that exactly right. DSis and I were texting yesterday and came to the same conclusion.

Well done on the dentist stuff, and on refocusing on your DS. I think doing that also helps you look to the future rather than the past - it can get really tiring forever overanalysing your childhood! I think also one of my main motivations for sorting out my relationship with my M is so that I don't repeat any unhelpful patterns with my own DD. I know there's probably some damage I've already unwittingly done, but I can do my best to change it and do better in the future.

toomuch it made me smile when you said that your therapist told you to go and do something you enjoy without feeling any guilt. Surely if it was that easy then you wouldn't need therapy in the first place. Does your therapist have a real understanding of childhood trauma? Definitely speak to them about the way you are feeling.

spare pleased you were able to put in some boundaries with your M. I really struggle with this, I feel like I'm constantly running away from her just to avoid the conflict. Luckily she's really lazy and I don't hear from her for months at a time so it makes it easier to avoid.

Thanks Spare Not mucking up my relationship with my son (and my others) is my goal. I feel a bit weird/odd sometimes for concentrating on the future but I've always known that my mum didn't love me so when all the narcissistic stuff made sense and clicked I had my 'reason' but it was no shock or surprise to know she was incapable of love. I first knew as in knew for a fact knew when I was around 8 years old although the signs were there earlier, I have distinct memories of just being in the way from 6 or 7 but I was actually openly told from around age 8 onwards that I was never wanted, that my dad wanted a boy and that if it wasn't for me X, Y and Z wouldn't have happened. Every bad thing was my fault.

Consequently I suppose, to get the reason and the validation that came when I found my way here was enough for me to snap into action and move on. I've spent many years wondering why, how could she, what's wrong with me and so on and all that's gone now. I have my answers and I view the single, but jeez was it huge, meltdown I had a few weeks ago as letting go of the past. I've never cried like that before and I'm a crier, but I was soaked, I totally let go. I thought there'd be more to come but it seems a line was drawn.

I don't know if it's normal or if it's just going to be normal for me or even if I'll always feel this way but I don't hate my mum, I can't see me ever trusting her again or confiding in her, I don't like her very much and I find her annoying, petty and bitter but I haven't got the energy left to hate her and I think it's because, thanks to reading here and the other linked places, nothing she can do will totally surprise me anymore. I'm so grateful for that.

As far as my son and other relationships go, I'm concentrating on just loving them and liking them rather than constantly trying to do and say nice things. There's a subtle difference. I do love them, I always have but my old way could have been misconstrued as needy and it often was. I haven't told them I'm doing things differently and they don't seem to have noticed yet they seem happier. It reminds me actually, I remember an old boyfriend from many moons ago, I was only about 18, gosh I adored him and I ached for him to adore me back so I tried so very hard but he didn't reciprocate. Until, one day we'd been for a day out, we'd broken down in the car, it rained on us, we'd run out of cash, we'd lost the keys to the broken car, every thing that could go wrong had and at the end of the day when we finally made it home he said 'I really loved you today'. I didn't get it, I was a wet skint mess but he loved me? I get it now, that day I was so preoccupied with everything else I stopped all the 'trying' to make him like me.

*My others = and others

Treacle I know exactly what you mean re your DS. Before I started coming to terms with my family issues there was sometimes something getting in the way of me loving her. I don't know what but I knew it was there (even though I pretended it wasn't). And now there's not. I'm so grateful for this that I haven't even tried to work out exactly what has happened to make it better and usually I really hate not having explanations for things! But it is so nice just to enjoy having her around, in an uncomplicated way.

Sleepy like everyone else I think the anger is normal. What you're feeling is a stage of a type of grief, I think someone said upthread. I think what is best is to just feel it, and it'll pass when it's ready to. Mine still comes and goes.

spare it did seem to be a bit like CBT, you're right. But it's not for me. I really want for once in my life to be able to actually wallow for a while, go "oh no poor me" and have someone listen and validate that.

Sleepy hello! The therapist has got experience of childhood trauma...IDK. She's usually great, she makes me feel like we are on an equal footing so I can say to her, I don't need you to solve this, I just need you to listen! She should be totally on board with that.

Treacle I wonder if there is anything significant at the age of 8, because that's when I would pinpoint things changing with my mother as well. Before that I got in trouble the whole time and was scared of her, but it sort of went onto a new level at aged 8. I remember too, I used to work in an after school club for primary aged kids, and there was this mum who was a lot like mine, all nice on the surface but she could freeze the kids with one look. And I remember when I started there she had a baby, a 5yo and an 8yo. The 8yo was overweight, difficult, and miserable, and her mother had barely one nice word to say to her. The 5yo was the favourite. But by the time the 5yo was 8, she was getting ignored too, and the little one had become the favourite. Is there something especially unappealing about kids that age, to a narcissist? They're right in the middle of proper childhood, not picturesque - clumsy with growth spurts, teeth missing, being cool with their friends one minute and the next minute trying not to cry because they hurt themselves. I think they're fucking awesome, I loved the kids in the after-school when they were that age - you can get a decent chat out of them, and they're so perceptive, and still so open as well. But I suppose they don't make the narcissist look good - too big to be cute, too little to try and pass off as your sister .

Like you treacle I figured out pretty early that my mum fucking hated me, or at least that if she loved me in the way a mother should love her children, then I didn't want that love and didn't want children. I think I acknowledged how mental she was in stages - realising aged 16 that however you define good motherhood, that wasn't it, and then actually only when my dad was dying and I was back up there again, realising exactly how constricted and miserable their lives were. I remember - I remember sitting at the canal side in a pub in Hertford where DH and I used to live, back from a weekend at my parents', and I'm sitting there with a pint of cider in my hand watching the ducks and I say to DH, remind me that the next time I think I'm wrong in the head to go up north and see my parents because I am fucking normal as anything considering how I grew up. And then a couple of years ago, just after I'd decided to go NC with my mother, I watched Rapunzel with the kids, sat there rooted to the sofa going "OMFG what is my mother doing in a Disney film" and then I discovered NPD and then I went and searched through about 10 pages of Mumsnet Relationships to find Stately Homes and revive it, because I'd seen it before but it had gone all quiet and I needed to share.

I found it really easy to let go of the idea that my mother might have loved me. It was a relief to think she doesn't, and to recognise that the feelings she has about me and my kids, her wish to be involved in our lives, doesn't come from a place of love. It's what I suspected for a long time. I think though that the lack of love, the abuse, and the lack of love, both affected me. When I was young I felt incomplete without a romantic relationship. It took me a while and a lot of mistakes (luckily always with good people) to sort my head out on that one. But the thing about the guilt of existence, that remains a big one for me, as well as a lack of confidence in my instincts about what people are thinking (it's like I'm right 99% of the time, but I never trust myself). It's all exacerbated by the fact that I'm in a new country, left my job, trying to change my life - a lot of my support networks and routines and everything are gone, and it's just me and my head, it makes it harder to ignore. Still though.

Hi everyone - I think I may have just had my first experience of the flying monkeys?

It's my cousins birthday today - she sent me a text saying that her birthday wish is for me to make it up with my mum .

I've made a point of keeping her out of it and haven't told her anything at all about what happened...

I replied that 'it's not going to happen and there's clearly a lot she doesn't know. And happy birthday x'

Hi guys,

I've posted on the SH threads before but not for a while. Hope you're all ok. I'm in a bit of a dilemma and thought you might understand.

I had eight months off from my mum until recently. While in therapy I finally made a breakthrough and realised that her behaviour for years WASNT ok (stuck by my occasionally violent, bullying, creepy, mean stepdad for 15 years and kept asking me to hug him more/ love him) and I wrote her a letter telling her how hurt I was and how I need space. So recently we somewhat reconnected, in as much as that she has ds now and then. There has been talk of her and I having a coffee together but I can't do it, I don't want to reconnect on a one to one basis with her, my anxious brain can't take it. It's like I lose all rational thought when she is coming- I start worrying about what to wear/ how my house looks/ etc, all the things that she is extremely judgy about, and the awkwardness with her is horrible. It's like I become a gibbering wreck.

She is meant to be having ds this Sunday but i feel so horribly stressed about it already. Last time she had him 3 weeks ago I was so pumped full of adrenaline for the three days before I couldn't think straight and it felt horrible. And after she'd had her time with ds and gone I felt like I was so tired I could have slept for weeks. I don't want to keep dealing with this every 3 weekends. But I don't want to deny ds his fun afternoon with grandma. I don't know what to do.

Chocolate you don't have to put yourself through this to let your DS have a relationship with his grandma. Even assuming it would be good for him in the long term, you shouldn't have to go through all this. And are you sure it will be good for your DS? He's enjoying his time with his grandma right now maybe, but it sounds like from what you say, as well as her enabling your bullying stepdad, she is also very critical of you, so are you sure she will be good to your DS? Or is there a chance that she might try and "win him over", try and get between you?

From your DS's POV it's just a fun afternoon out, it's no big deal. You could take him out yourself and he'd have a nice afternoon. You're under no obligation to facilitate a relationship with someone who was happy enough, with her own kids, to throw them under a bus to keep her unpleasant bullying husband happy.

Hi chocolate

re your comment:-

"So recently we somewhat reconnected, in as much as that she has ds now and then. There has been talk of her and I having a coffee together but I can't do it, I don't want to reconnect on a one to one basis with her, my anxious brain can't take it"

Your mother sounds like a very critical type of person if your mind is racing at a million miles an hour re what she will think of you, your house etc. And your stepdad also sounds vile.

If you cannot see her then I would not subject your son, your most precious resource, to her either. She was not a good parent to you and she is not actually a decent grandmother sort to your child either. What is she telling him?. If you are not there you cannot monitor what is being said. Call her time with him on Sunday off now; cite vomiting, a virus or something.

Many now adult children of toxic parents have this idea that hopefully this time around and against their own personal experience of them, their parent/s will somehow behave better around the children. It does not happen.

Is there another set of grandparents that are nice; if so concentrate your efforts on them. It seems like it was a mistake to reconnect with your mother in the first place (were you infact coerced or otherwise pressured into into doing so by others?). Is she still with your stepdad?.

There is nothing really to stop you lowering all forms of contact again particularly if its not working out for year. Work more on your own FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) too; are you still in therapy?.

ChocolatePHD I would be very wary of letting her have time with your child. Because it sounds very triggering for you and your son is ripe for manipulation. I let my toxic parent see my now young adult dd1 very regularly. I'm now wracked with guilt about it, particularly because a lot of the time it was so I could go out drinking. I've just had a baby and it will not be happening again. Toxic parent has noticed a change in me and recently commented that they would be taking a step back from me as I no longer need them. Not sure if I was supposed to reply that of course I need you but I just said OK great. And it felt great.

Sorry for interrupting that just spilled out.

Thank u for the replies, all.

No she isn't still with my stepdad, she is remarried to a decent-ish kind of bloke. He is quite like a child though, he is late fifties and smokes lots of weed, keeps marijuana plants at their house (which is why ds would never be allowed a sleep over), is in a rock band, has never had kids.

I don't think she'd try and manipulate ds but she does make bad decisions, like giving him a fuck tonne of sugar, getting him crazy hyper, and she once hit him to tell him off in a shop (lightly, but it shocked and appalled me). However, whenever I asked her to babysit in the past, she would cancel 90% of he time. She likes all the fun stuff and none of the responsibilities.

My dh, because he has never experienced family trouble, thinks that it's beneficial to have her around a little bit; but my brain turns to mush with her in my orbit. I think I'm letting her see ds out of guilt re breaking their relationship off, they have fun together.

Attila- sadly we don't have any decent family members, they're either dead sadly or my MIL is totally batty and a right battle axe!

It's very tricky to explain to a partner isn't it.

Good luck with your decision.

toomuch sorry I sounded negative about your therapist, I don't doubt she will understand. I think I'm just a bit untrusting sometimes.

It's interesting to read how some mothers changed when their kids were about 8. That's definitely the time my M increased her manipulation and criticism of me. If I did well at something then I was showing off, if I didn't then I would just get ignored. I think that maybe they realise that you're going to grow up and they need tighter control over you the older you get.

flump good comeback with the flying monkeys. Hopefully it won't get any more intense than that.

chocolate just what everyone else has said. You don't need to live with this hanging over your head. Your mental health is a big price to pay for one fun afternoon with grandma for your DS. You are so much more important to him than she is. I'm starting to realise more lately that just because you are related to someone it doesn't mean that your relationship with them has more value than that of a good friend, mentor etc. My DD has a key worker assigned to her at pre school. She has a far better relationship with this lady than she does with my M. I think good role models are important but they don't always have to come from immediate family.

My dh, because he has never experienced family trouble, thinks that it's beneficial to have her around a little bit; but my brain turns to mush with her in my orbit.

Unfortunately some people from nice emotionally healthy families do not get the toxic dynamic at all; you see this on MN a lot. I would argue that it is not at all beneficial for you and your son to be around her at all let alone the man who she is now with. Your mother's series of bad choices in men has and continues to cost you dearly.

"I think I'm letting her see ds out of guilt re breaking their relationship off, they have fun together"

Guilt is a useless emotion and a terrible reason actually for your son to be subjected to her at all. It could well become a decision you will kick yourself over. If you cannot see her and for good reason, your son should not be subjected to her either inspite of what your H says.

Your boundaries re your mother need more refining as they are still very much skewed out of your own FOG. She stuffing him with sugar and hitting him in a shop are clearly not hallmarks of a healthy grandparent figure. Your mother remains an emotionally unhealthy parent to be at all around and her choice in men remains poor too.

Better to be alone than to be so badly accompanied and family are not binding.

It's my cousins birthday today - she sent me a text saying that her birthday wish is for me to make it up with my mum

Flump Oh my goodness, who on earth has those sort of birthday dreams? That has got to be laughed at, it's so blatantly a set up. I'm pleased you treated it with the contempt it deserved.

About the age 8 thing. I believe that up to around age 6 children are biddable and will hang onto their parents every word, start adding a few years and they begin to question things and form their own opinions through outside influences. I feel the no longer being cute is also a factor. I can pinpoint my age as being before age 7 and after age 7 because we moved towns when I was 7 years old so my memories of what was said include the house/area it was said. I know my mum had my long hair chopped into a boy cut at age 7 as she didn't have the time (patience) to comb through my long hair anymore. She also told me I was too big to hold hands with and also started with the stock answer 'because I'm your mum and I said so' to every question and often lost her temper with me.

A small update. Last week my M asked if I can make it to meet them this week and I said I couldn't. She clearly heard me. Today I had a text off my dad asking if I'll be meeting them later I don't know why he asked, he doesn't normally check if I'm on for meeting as I never let them down. I just replied with a simple 'No, I can't, I have an appointment'. He simply replied 'Ok'.

It's something and nothing really, I expect those sort of exchanges happen umpteen times a day around the world and are considered normal and acceptable and that's how I'm trying to view it. I felt slightly annoyed later on that I was asked even though I'd already said I can't make it but I can't read too much into it, especially as it came from my dad not my M. I am proud of myself though for not justifying, elaborating or apologising though, must admit it felt unusual but also strangely good.

I've also put a boundary in place regarding my son and the dentist. I'm paying for him to go to the dentist privately too but he can get a bit expectant when it comes to spending my cash (even though he's working) so I asked him what his expectations were. He obviously needs a filling/removal of a broken back tooth but he started saying he was unhappy with his two front teeth (they're nice but small if that makes sense) and was thinking of seeing what they can do, he'd also like them whitening. I knew that was coming so that's why I asked . I've told him that I'll pay for the check up, the deep clean and any work he needs doing, that's no problem BUT if his front teeth are bothering him that much then chat to the dentist about them, get a quote and I'll pay to have them done for his Christmas present. He seemed happy enough with that. The old me wouldn't have known where to draw the line, I'd have paid for his teeth to be sorted cosmetically over mine being sorted out of necessity and I'd have ended up feeling like I was being taken advantage of but in his defence I would never have told him no either. This way we'll both be happy so you're right, boundaries do work for all involved.

Thank you everyone for your replies. Can't tell you how good it is to speak to people who understand. My therapist does, but it's not like o can talk to her whenever I need to.

I will feign illness this weekend and then speak to the therapist next week about what to do long term.

It's so sad because it's such a mixed up situation: sometimes I'd have a nice time with my mum, laughing a lot and in jokes and stuff. But it was all set against the backdrop of all the ways that she hurt me. I could never get past it or ignore all the nasty shit she says about people, and the way she made me feel every single time I saw her: terrified of what she was thinking of everything I said, did, how I lived my life. It's all too much to put to one side. I just feel so horribly guilty and sad.

Flump

Yep that was a flying monkey. There may be more heading your way as well; be warned.

Do continue to ignore the flying monkey cousin; many such people when it comes to toxic relatives operate only with their own self interest in mind. She is certainly not acting in your interests.

This is how you deal with flying monkeys (the narcissists enablers):-

Listen" to Flying Monkeys. Don't react. Then ask if they feel strongly about this. When they agree, point out they reached this conclusion without asking about your needs, so you aren't interested in what they have to say. End conversation.

Infact I would block her altogether; such people really do need to be ignored.

I read this thing that said narcissists have the emotional age of a six year old. So maybe once you're properly past six, they can't emotionally outwit you any more so they have to start being mean instead.

I'm sure this has been posted before but I hadn't seen it so thought it may be worth reviving - H/T reddit

Personal Bill of Rights
I have the right...

to ask for what I want.

to say no to requests or demands I can't meet.

to express all of my feelings, positive or negative.

to change my mind.

to make mistakes and not have to be perfect.

to follow my own values and standards.

to say no to anything when I feel I am not ready, it is unsafe, or it violates my values.

to determine my own priorities.

not to be responsible for others' behaviour, actions, feelings, or problems.

to expect honesty from others.

to be angry at someone I love.

to be uniquely myself.

to feel scared and say "I'm afraid."

to say "I don't know."

not to give excuses or reasons for my behaviour.

to make decisions based on my feelings.

to my own needs for personal space and time.

to be playful and frivolous.

to be healthier than those around me.

to be in a non-abusive environment.

to make friends and be comfortable around people.

to change and grow.

to have my needs and wants respected by others.

to be treated with dignity and respect.

to be happy.

not to be used by others to fulfil their needs.

to create a safe place and leave an unsafe place or person.

to have credit for my own talents or interests without them being accredited to someone else.

to have the right to explore these talents or interests.

to look after my own concerns and walk away from someone that wants me to "save" them.

That list is awesome, famsham.

When I got to 'to feel scared and say 'I am afraid'' I welled up. Because that's exactly how I feel. I'm afraid that being confronted with my mum every few weeks when she sees my son is compromising my mental health needs, and I am afraid of what will happen if it goes downhill. Two weeks ago when I got hugely distressed and upset about all this I put a belt around my neck and pulled it tight until my head throbbed. Several times. I had no intention of killing my self, I would never leave my son, but I was so distressed in that moment and I lost it for a minute. This is how much it affects me. I've also had severe chest pains and a bad stomach around the time of her visits. Had to have an ambulance out for the chest pains as I thought I was having a heart attack.

I hope nobody thinks me a bad person for being honest about the above one off belt event, please know that my son is my darling and is bought up in a stable, happy loving home, and he is never party to any of the above, and that I'm under the care of an excellent therapist and Gp.

Love that list famsham I'll probably read that back a few times.

chocolate it's awful that you've felt like that. It took me a long time to realise that most people don't think about ending their lives on a regular basis. It's not a good way to be and if it's triggered by seeing your m then you have every right to stay away from her. No one here will judge you for the way you've been made to feel.

That list is amazing Famsham, it made me gulp! I didn't know I had the right to all of those things, I kind of knew as an adult I could supposedly do 'what I want' but I've never known what it is I wanted either. Now I've seen it I want all those things on the list.

Chocolate I can highly recommend cancelling your son and mum's time, even if it is using an excuse like D&V. It'll give you some breathing space. Xx

Morning all 🙂

Chocolate so sorry for what you've been through.

Saddest thing about my 'flying money cousin... She is a sweet girl and has had a terrible few years - her young DD died after a horrible illness and she's not surprisingly struggled since. But my M is clearly still quite happy to fill her head full of shit....