Anyone tricked their partner into having a baby?

[B42]

My friend is lovely, sweet, tough, strong willed.

Has been in a relationship for 4 years. Her dp loves her but as a result of a fucked up upbringing, won't marry her.

She doesn't care about marriage but at the age of 40, does care about the clock ticking with regards to kids.

He says he loves her to death. Doesn't want to be with anyone else, isn't looking. And wants children. But wants to be married first.

So catch 22.

She finally decided to take matters into her hands and stop taking the pill. Without his knowledge.
And is now pregnant. Has never been happier.

He is over the moon too.

But she is now feeling guilty that she "tricked" him.

Personally I think all's well that ends well.

What do you think?

Dervel an interesting post but how is your life bleak otherwise - that you felt unable to start another relationship when you had a child & were focused on being a parent?

I am going to screen shot this thread and save it to show my son when the time comes.

I am staggered at the number of people who seem to think this ok.

Pretty much ocelot7 if I met someone I liked I certainly wouldn't want to dump the hot mess I am currently on them. I should qualify things are a bit bleak currently, but if I stay the course and provide my child with a good start in life I can reassess when they are older.

It was compounded by the fact that for the first few years pretty much any and all contact was at my ex's convenience, so I was at her beck and call and had contact when it suited her. I wouldn't want to be on a date when a last minute opportunity to have contact came up.

On that score I have been very lucky and have been able to see more of my child than many fathers I know who are married. However I am under no illusion that an epic fallout with the mother and I'm screwed.

You just do the best you can with the hand your dealt.

'Fgs she lied about the pill then kept it from him until it was too late. She definitely wasn't someone special.'

It was a genuine question, Polly, not a personal attack on Dervel, which he answered.

I genuinely wanted to hear his further perspective, myself having been in a marriage where one party later decided (we'd married in our early 20s and discussion about kids was 'sure, someday,' then someday came and he found he never wanted them) he didn't want kids and therefore we made sure to end the marriage as I didn't feel the same. And, having met my present DH (we've been married for 15 years, 3 children) I was very upfront that I wanted kids and didn't want to wait for years and years. Despite being nearly 7 years younger, he was on the same page and we had DD1 13 months after our marriage.

Sorry scotland. I misconstrued. Subject close to my heart (not myself).

I know a man who married and was desperate for children, would talk for hours and hours about wanting them.

5 years later they now have 2 dds and he spends every weekend playing golf, going drinking and is the worse father Iv ever known.

Just because you mutually and lovingly agree to have a baby together doesn't mean he'll be a great dad and it will all be roses and unicorns.
I know plenty of unplanned babies who have great dads.
We were only 18 when our daughter came along (definitely not planned!)
The last thing on my dp mind was to have a baby when he was a teenager, but he was wonderful from day 1 and wouldn't be without her. She's 11 now and they are two peas In pod.

Best explain really:

My exH was married before. At 21 his wife wanted children (she was 23). He said I'm too young, I'm not ready. It wasn't a no. Just a not yet. Guess what happened?

Anyway he was an amazing father and doted on his DD. He didn't regret it. (Like the OPs other half seemingly)

Fast forward 15 years and they split. It was acrimonious.

Guess what her favourite line was to DD?....

"Well, he never wanted you anyway"

Darvel I think you illustrate the problem really well. You meet a man and tell him you want children. And he says "no" or "wait" even though you know you want to be together and he'd be a great dad.
You appear to be a loving and committed father by your own account and the relationship with your child is central to your life. And yet you won't be with the mother because she's deceptive even though it appears she's given you the best thing in your life.
So it's not that you didn't want to be a dad, it's just that she made the decision. How long did you want to wait before you got to make the choice for the both of you then?

There are genuine cases where birth control doesn't work.

Yes there are, of course. But my mind was completely boggled recently to learn that 'contraception failures' also include incidences where people have failed to use contraception properly.

Yes, really! So you are on the pill, you take one one day, forget or don't bother for the next three days, take another one, put the next two in the bin on purpose.....and that still counts technically as a contraception failure.

Or you usually use condoms but two weeks last Tuesday you needed one at the crucial moment but they were in your handbag which was downstairs and neither of you were inclined to spoil the moment by running downstairs to get them....and that's a contraception failure.

Nocarbonsugar actually I don't think either party should unilaterally decide. Although do not think I am advocating in anyway for a restriction of women's reproductive rights. I think you sit down at the start of the relationship and figure out what you both want together. I mean relationships should be 50/50 and if for whatever reason one person is calling all the shots isn't really a relationship is it? It certainly isn't a healthy one!

I'd agree it's a spectacularly shitty thing for a man to string a woman along whom he has no intention of having children with. I also think it's spectacularly shitty for a woman (or a man for that matter) to sabotage/ lie about birth control. Those two positions are not mutually exclusive.

I hardly feel I dragged my feet at 10 months when we'd discussed and agreed a timeframe of 5 years.

Good luck with your pregnancy, op. If you love the guy and he loves you as much as you say, you'll tell him the truth.

Oh, I get it, Polly. I wouldn't have tricked a person. Just my own feelings, but I'd have gone it alone or other arrangements (such as co-parenting with a gay male couple or co-parenting in a platonic setting if one or the other could be had). I can see the desperation, I experienced it myself.

'I am staggered at the number of people who seem to think this ok.'

I am, too. You do get a lot of responses, however, if a woman posts on here that she is in her mid-thirties and wanting children, that she has time and lots of anecdotes about easily conceiving healthy children in the late-30s or early-40s and I always take those with a grain of salt because, I am 46 now, I have a number of friends who have experienced infertility at such ages and the outcome wasn't like that.

I was 28 when I'd have enough of hormonal contraception. I wanted a child, and was married, but I told my spouse that I was quitting contraception. For 2 years, he used a condom. We sought counselling, to work through our respective feelings, and ultimately, when I was 30, we divorced. But I wouldn't have tricked him. I loved him and he is a good person (I'm still in contact with him now, DH is, too, he is now 50 and has no children by choice, he had a vasectomy after we divorced) and he, equally, loved me and would not want to keep me from at least trying.

To me, love is respect and respect is love, and I couldn't bring myself to be dishonest with anyone I loved about something so serious (okay, I concealed surprise trips or meals at restaurants for special occasions for those I knew enjoyed surprises, but you know what I mean. If you've got to the point where you can't speak to someone you love about life like that, you have no business being with them, much less procreating with them. But I realise that's my opinion and it appears plenty of people think this is an okay thing to do.

I agree, Dervel, not necessarily with the 50/50, ideally that is so, but in life, in long-term relationships, there has to be give and take and sometimes the scales are weighed differently, but I see what you mean.

I was very honest with DH, I wanted marriage and kids and my timeframe wasn't long. He agreed, but if he hadn't, well, onwards and upwards to us both.

It's staggeringly awful that people would deceive, especially when it involves another person's life and a child.

But anon surely you realise that is an entirely different scenario, he agreed to procreate and did so willingly. Sure, it happens, he agrees and then proves he's not willing to parent, but that's no justification for tricking someone, what's called a 'gotcha' pregnancy in the US.

Our divorce was really painful, there was a lot of love there, but it had to be. Yes, we did still have sex from time to time, during our separation, by mutual agreement, but always with a condom. If there had been an accident, well, we'd have dealt with it, but there's no way I could do that to someone I loved, or him to me. I did have a condom failure, with a ONS, but got the MAP immediately, and he owned up immediately, that it had popped off at the wrong time. We both had full STI screening, too, he was openly bi-sexual but even if he had not been, it was in order.

And sadly, I have more than one friend who has discovered she is infertile due to chlamydia.

Expatinscotland im not saying 'tricking' someone is a good thing to do.
I'm just explaining that for all the women on here who think that because a man marries you and agrees to start a family and says it's what he wants etc, it doesn't mean he'll automatically be a better father then men who have been 'tricked' into it.

I think a lot of women have a glorified idea about marriage and planning a baby, doing things the 'right' way doesn't always guarantee you a good outcome.

A lot of men agree to have a baby with a nod and "yes dear" after a lot of pressure from their wife after all.

A huge percentage of babies born aren't planned, if all unplanned pregnancies are doomed, then why is it often so successful?
And why do so many marriages end in divorce once the families been made?

Why is it that women on MN clap a women for wanting to go it alone and get some sperm from bank, yet when a women like op wants to come off her pill without her partner knowing (baring in mind her partner would come round to the idea anyway) the partner whom she loves and he loves her, everyone gets up in arms?.
Can't see how it's much different, both are done for selfish reasons.

"Why is it that women on MN clap a women for wanting to go it alone and get some sperm from bank, yet when a women like op wants to come off her pill without her partner knowing (baring in mind her partner would come round to the idea anyway) the partner whom she loves and he loves her, everyone gets up in arms?.
Can't see how it's much different, both are done for selfish reasons."

You really can't see why it's different? REALLY?
You can't see that version 1, a single woman, wanting to be pg and getting donor sperm is different from version 2, a woman lying to and deceiving her partner to get pg, a decision he then has to live with the consequences of too?
There's no help for you if you can't see that difference.

In the OP's example there was NO guarantee that the partner would come round to the idea anyway. There still isn't. Her being pg is a very different thing from the baby being here - and while he might stay while she's pg, he might change his mind once the baby is born, who knows!

Read Dervel's posts again if you want to see the difference.

Perhaps a better question would be why are so many men so terrified of having children? It's such a recurring theme on MN that posters are strung along for years and then having to find a new partner for childbearing.

Women are constantly berated by the press for putting careers first and leaving it too late when often this hasn't been their choice. There should be research, a campaign, education, on positive family relationships, aimed at young men.

Lots of pp have given examples of having to leave a relationship in their 20s or 30s to find someone who wants children, but the OP's friend is 40. They would be trying to find someone who was willing to start trying immediately.

I agree no-one should ever be tricking anyone into having a baby but the OP's friend has been tricked too, in a very cruel way. That doesn't make it right but it would be better to examine the cause than argue the rights and wrongs.

'I agree no-one should ever be tricking anyone into having a baby but the OP's friend has been tricked too, in a very cruel way. '

No, she chose to start a relationship at 36 with a view to forming the whole nuclear family, rather than taking matters into her own hand, taking control over her life rather than handing it to someone else to make the decisions, and going it alone whether it be by sperm donor, co-parent arrangement or adoption. And then wasted 4 years clinging to a fairytale that for one reason or another didn't apply to her.

So many are still wedded to this idea that this is only way to have a 'family'.

You see it on here often enough, women who are in their mid-30s and up, with a man who, for whatever reason, doesn't want a child or single and still hanging on to this idea that's the only way to go about parenthood, followed by anecdotes from others who, through sheer luck, found someone to procreate with and had successful pregnancies. Of course they will hear those stories, this is Mums net.

But WAKE UP! For every anecdote like this there are more from those who were unsuccessful hooking up with a man and are now too old to have children. Or who experienced infertility and treatment did not result in a child.

So some then justify bringing a person into the world by deception.

I'm shocked anyone would think this is OK. It's not ok to trick someone into a massive life change and bringing a new person into the world. It may work out for your friend but it was a gamble. To me it shows utter disregard for your partner. It is a massive abuse of trust.

Hi expat, I think I made it clear I definitely don't think the action was justified and would never endorse it. I do know though - not just from MN - that many men who enjoy their relationship keep women hanging on with a half-promise. Perhaps lots of them are genuinely not sure, or kind of want children but have been fed the line that it will end their enjoyment or freedom. I think that is really worth exploring and that was the point I was making.

Yes, anyone single who wanted a baby and didn't have a partner at 36 could take the action you describe, although none of these are "easy" routes. If you meet someone who you think wants a family, then why wouldn't you pursue that? It's not so much that people are wedded to the idea but that it's a lovely concept and if the opportunity is seemingly there, why wouldn't you try and take it?

It would be great if women felt able to say (as some pp have) - I definitely want children and that's a dealbreaker, but women are also sold the line that they have to act nonchalant initially, for the same reason above - that many men are socialised to avoid having children and have to be "talked into it". If we could break this cycle, I think both men and women could be more honest and comfortable with each other, and there'd be no need for a deception of this kind to come into play at all.

ps by "come into play" I meant that it wouldn't even enter into anyone's head.

I quite agree! Life would be so much simpler if our relationships came from a platform of honesty, respect and reciprocity. I really struggle to fathom how anyone can claim to love and respect their partner when they lie and misrepresent, and I apply that to tricking someone into a baby or stringing the promise of children you never intend to honour.

O, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive...

'Yes, anyone single who wanted a baby and didn't have a partner at 36 could take the action you describe, although none of these are "easy" routes. If you meet someone who you think wants a family, then why wouldn't you pursue that? It's not so much that people are wedded to the idea but that it's a lovely concept and if the opportunity is seemingly there, why wouldn't you try and take it? '

Nothing wrong with this, so long as you realise time isn't on your side if you want children and you don't really have 4 years to piss away and take responsibility for that if indeed you truly want children.

These 'hand ups' of his..... who knows how they will manifest once he is good and tied down to a life he had doubts about.