DS and friend experimenting

[lostmum1980]

Name changed for this.

My DS is 13 years old. I've had a quick look on his phone this evening and found messages between him and his friend that left me with no doubt that they have been experimenting sexually together.
DS friend is a year older and they have been friends since they were little. I think they've always got on well as both like to avoid the ruff and tumble of the other kids playing out and have never had concerns about them spending time together.
Friend has been coming round and spending time in DS's room since they were young.
DS's friend was actually here when I found the messages, so after realist that i wasn't misreading and it all turning out to be a joke, I went upstairs and asked him (politely) to leave. I was bloody shaking. I asked DS when he'd gone what was going on and he knew that I knew I guess by my face and that i had his phone in my hand and looked devastated.
He started crying and we hugged for a bit and I asked him what had been going on. He said he didn't fancy him but they had been messing about.
From the jist of the messages, i think they'd both kept agreeing it was going to be the last time etc but I think its been going on for about 2 months.
I honestly don't know what the hell to do now?
I've told him that I don't care if he likes boys, girls or martians as long as he's happy and I genuinely mean that but he's just too young for all this??
I haven't told his dad, I'm in 2 minds to. We are divorced but get on well and i'd usually always share stuff but this i don't know? I feel i'd be breaking DS's confidence before we've even started and it won't change the situation and I doubt he'd be of much help TBH
I don't want to embarrass him, I know he's probably mortified as it is but it seems too serious to never speak of again. Has anyone else been in this situation please??

Total over reactions IMHO.

Why dont you all get her DS arrested just to top it off! Poor boy, shamed and demonised, spreader of diseases, and to top it off make him tell the GF so his shame is maximised.

He was experimenting - it went a bit too far. He needs love and support so he can trust adults to be wise, forgiving, have perspective and help him make good decisions in the future.

You are being ridiculous, mathanxiety. It is because HPV is so incredibly common and so easily spread - as you point out, a condom does not necessarily protect, as it cannot cover the entire expanse of skin - that they have introduced a vaccine to protect against the high and medium risk types, as anyone who ever has intimate contact with anyone else is at risk of picking up one type of HPV infection or another. Even with the high risk strains of HPV, the majority of people's immune systems clear the infection without it leading to cancer. Anyone who has intimate contact with anyone else would be an idiot to assume they are safe from an HPV infection, and that includes this boy's girlfriend. He should not have to tell her she is at risk of this - she ought to bloody well know that already from sex education classes, rather than being stupid enough to think anyone she has intimate contact with will never have got too close to anyone else. It's the myriad of other sexually transmitted infections she should be more concerned about, as they are all far more likely to cause her serious long term problems than an HPV infection.

I'm so glad we never had internet when I was a teen - a few hand jobs and blow jobs blown out of massive proportion.

13 is too young IMO.

Well, yes, I tend to agree with you, expat. These boys do not sound like a high risk for virulent sexually transmitted infections - more like two gauche young boys experimenting in a fairly safe environment. It's unlikely the OP's ds is having sexual contact like this with his girlfriend, given their ages - experimentation out of curiosity with a trusted friend is completely different from embarking on a sexual relationship at the age of 13 with a girlfriend who is likely to knock him back anyway, even if he does pluck up the courage to try it on.

Just wanted to add my experience. I was in Year 9 and started messing around with a friend of mine one night at a sleepover. We then continued every time we stayed at each others' houses and ended up in a relationship for around 3 years. I then had a few further gay relationships but am happily married to my husband and would consider myself bisexual.

When my mum found out the only thing she said to me was that my friend couldn't sleep over anymore and refused to really discuss it. All I did was stop confiding in her and sleep at my girlfriend's house instead. So I agree with others that you need to make sure you handle it carefully because conflict at this age can have lasting effect. My mum was pretty homophobic though so I wasn't exactly surprised by her reaction, just upset really.

13 does sound young but in hindsight at no point did I feel too young for what was happening. I think we forget quote easily what it's like to be that age. I think it's pretty standard for people in Year 8-10 to be experimenting before losing their virginity at 15ish and above.

I had a mum who was really uptight about anything sexual, too, Here, and as a result I never told her anything and lied a lot. I experimented quite a bit before losing my virginity at 16.

No child or teen should ever have the expectation of privacy on their phone. Ever.
They will just learn to hide and delete stuff they don't want you to see. would be abusers will tell their target how to do this. It then leaves the child unable to talk to their parents because they have been so secretive.
They might just buy their own PAYG phone or even just the SIM, so that they can have some level of privacy.
And at what age does this stop? 16? 17? 18? Many 16-year-olds are working and paying for their own phone (mine is)

OP, it sounds like you have done a good job with your son. You have a good relationship with him. It's only a pity that you had to find out by reading his messages rather than from talking to him. Keep up with the communication.

No child or teen should ever have the expectation of privacy on their phone. Ever.

I read this it to my DD16 and she said this:
"God thats so awful, who are these nazi parents? Why do children have no rights and no respect? You'd only do that if you didn't trust your child at all. Tell them that you've never needed to do that because you have a really open and honest relationship with us and we can talk about anything. And we do."

That was me who said that. I'm not a nazi parent (not happy with that phrase by the way).

I am NOT going to give my 13 year old and my 10 year old free rein over their phones and just "hope" that they don't view or download anything inappropriate or have contact with the wrong people. I know quite a lot about dual accounts and apps that hide other apps, the one that looks like the calculator with the + and - signs reversed and so on. Right now they are not allowed to have "friends" or followers that they do not know in real life. All their accounts have to be private. These are the sorts of things I check, not all that often but they appreciate and understand the need for it. The 10 year old wants all sorts of social media accounts (primarily Instagram) but she is not allowed yet. I watch out for cyber bullying, look at what they have been looking at on Youtube and the internet, make sure there is no evidence of sexting. Deleted history is treated with a huge amount of suspicion by me.

I know it's not perfect, but having worked in a school and seeing how much trouble kids can get into because parents are not involved or supportive enough (under the guise of providing "privacy" to their children) it is the right decision for my family.

However, having said all of that, I am willing to accept the idea that this will likely change over the next few years as they get older and are more mature, more able to look out for themselves. I do see that a 16 year old with a phone is a different thing to a 10 or even 14 year old.

Mostly it's not my children I don't trust, it's everyone else!!!

Mostly it's not my children I don't trust, it's everyone else!!!

Unfortunately a lot people don't understand that till something happens and they end up like family members of mine who are currently waiting to go to court after their teenage child was groomed on line.

Sadly they'll be a few families in court in that day as part of the same case and I strongly suspect the youngsters have all managed to sound like GarlicandSaphires daughter when given the chance. Thank God they grow out of it.

I read this it to my DD16 and she said this:

I don't base my parenting decisions on the opinions of 16 year olds. I presume you don't either. Well I hope so.

This thread is odd. A 13 year old boy is having sexual contact/relations with another 13 year old boy and there seem to be loads of posts saying "ah, experimentation, remember it well. He could well be having it off with a girl in the morning" and apparently he is.

Is this really the sexual etiquette we want our teens to learn. Are we really going to dismiss this with "ah experimenting". To me the boy is gay and someone - some adult who cares about him and is thinking about him needs to have a caring inclusive conversation with him about that.

Won't even go there with mathanxiety being vilified for expecting that 13 year olds should adhere to the same safe sex standards as any other adult - oh wait a sec, they aren't adult - is that why sex and sexually transmitted diseases will work differently with them?

Anyone who has intimate contact with anyone else would be an idiot to assume they are safe from an HPV infection, and that includes this boy's girlfriend. He should not have to tell her she is at risk of this - she ought to bloody well know that already from sex education classes, rather than being stupid enough to think anyone she has intimate contact with will never have got too close to anyone else

What bullshit.

Are you serious, Round?
As Pallisers notes, just because there are 13 year olds and someone who is a bit older involved here doesn't mean the risk of HPV transmission is any less, and may I add that just because you call it experimentation doesn't mean it isn't sex, carrying with it all the risk of sex with anyone, which a teenager mature enough to have a girlfriend (or a boyfriend) would reveal to her.

This girl is to be left in the dark that -
(a) her boyfriend is having oral sex with someone else while still seeing her - another boy no less - and
(b) her immune system may well take care of HPV, and
(b) you kiss/date boys or men at your own risk, so the DS has no obligation to be honest with her about having sex behind her back, or who he has been having sex with, or to tell her of any possible risks he may be exposing her to through whatever goes on in their own relationship.

I am astonished at your idea that a 13 year old girl should assume her 13 year old boyfriend would have had sexual contact that includes oral sex either before or while in a relationship with her, especially the latter.

What sort of parallel universe do you inhabit?

Yes indeed, someone needs to sit this boy down and talk to him about integrity and honesty, because girls deserve to have all the information to hand that is pertinent to decisions about relationships no less than grown women, and someone needs to talk frankly to him about safe sex every single time no matter who he is with.

What sort of parallel universe do you inhabit, mathanxiety, where you think that this boy is so likely to have got high risk HPV from his 14 year old friend and passing it on to his girlfriend? And if you think he may have, then he is every bit as likely to have got chlamydia, so why are you not telling his mother to march him off to a sexual health clinic for testing? And why are you assuming he has done anything more than kiss his girlfriend? If he does not even plan to have sex with her, what are you insisting he tell her? I think he should certainly be made fully aware of the risks to himself and others from his behaviour and should be told that honesty with sexual partners is vital, but do you really think he has, or is going to, have sex with his girlfriend in the first place? There is absolutely no evidence of that, just lots of texts about his best male friend. Forcing him to be honest with someone he is not going to have sex with is just stupid and he'd never confide in his mother again.

'To me the boy is gay and someone - some adult who cares about him and is thinking about him needs to have a caring inclusive conversation with him about that.'

What about all the people on here who've admitted they had homosexual relationships and are now in hetero ones? That's because people can like to have sex with both genders, or none at all, or fluid gendered people. Imagine! Yes, it's possible, that a few homosexual encounters does not a homosexual make!

What about all the people on here who've admitted they had homosexual relationships and are now in hetero ones? That's because people can like to have sex with both genders, or none at all, or fluid gendered people. Imagine! Yes, it's possible, that a few homosexual encounters does not a homosexual make! hmm

Imagine indeed! If my son or daughter has a sexual encounter with someone of their own sex age 13, I certainly won't be dismissing it with that old canard - just experimenting along the way! All good fun! I won't care if they end up bisexual or gay or straight but I'll pay him or her the respect of having a conversation about what is actually going on in his or her life.

I did tell his mother to march him off to a STD clinic for testing, Round.

If you have unprotected sex without vaccination then sorry, but you are at risk of contracting all sorts of stds including HPV, which causes cervical and mouth and throat cancers.

We do not know what the 14 year old boy involved has been up to or with whom. We can probably assume he experiments quite a bit though, right? With lots of other partners, right? Since 'experimenting' is so common apparently, and it seems not to matter with whom...

According to you, the 13 year old shouldn't be 'forced to be honest' about having sex with someone else while at the same time enjoying the status of a 13 year old boy who has a girlfriend? God forbid that a boy should face consequences of his choices.

The girlfriend should be given the information she needs in order to make a solid decision about whether to continue to get vaccinated if she is not already, or whether to continue to be this boy's beard.
Incidentally, how do you think she will feel when the truth about her boyfriend emerges?
Do you think she will feel used and humiliated?
Does that matter at all to you?

Do you think it's kinda cute that he is cheating on this girlfriend, or that he is likely to expose her to HPV that may cause cancer years later, probably bang in the middle of her childbearing years when she has babies or small children to think about?

At what age do you think we should expect integrity from our children?
Evidence of respect for other people?
43?
62?
85?
Or maybe a little younger?

This boy only confided in his mother when he was caught red handed. The ship of mutual trust has well and truly sailed. We should not assume he and the girlfriend have not engaged in sexual activity of some sort.
'Experimenting' is rife, after all, isn't it?

Going through a phone is not like reading a diary. It's necessary to know what kids are up to online and through messaging for their own safety and wellbeing.

Ffs, mathanxiety, the boy had messages on his mobile phone between the two boys - a bit of an open book, really. Nobody else giving him blow jobs... He is not out dogging in the local park. And the girl is an idiot if she doesn't think she needs protecting from hpv when the offer is there. She shouldn't need to be told by her boyfriend, who is not her sexual partner, that if she ever were to have sex with him, she should be vaccinated, first - she should have been taught that already, and know that is precisely why the vaccine is offered to underage girls. Grow up and stop reacting in a way that would 100% guarantee any son you ever had would hate you in return for your obvious hatred, distrust and disgust of him. But then I have the feeling you only have girl children.

It's so normal and natural and nothing to be ashamed of. He does however obviously need to be doing this safely.

Well done OP for keeping cool and not making him feel that it is wrong.

I was doing exactly this sort of thing when I was about 12 as were nearly all of my friends, we are all nearly 30s now and in healthy relationships.

With how this thread has gone I just want to repeat to the OP that I think she handled this really well and that she is clearly a wonderful, caring, on the ball Mum.

Life brings its challenges and he is lucky to have you.

I am certain that there is a lot more experimenting going on that we are ever aware of.

If you have any stresses or concerns at a later stage then perhaps post in the LGBT section, there you will find real life experiences.

I would be shocked if I found out my 13 year old dd was giving blow jobs to a 14 year old friend she wasn't even in a relationship with. I would also be worried about the fact she had indicated she wants to stop it, but hasn't. Also the fact that children that age are vulnerable in lots of ways. So I understand your concerns op.

Whilst I don't agree with mathanxiety regarding the HPV comments, I do think the boy should be encouraged to tell his girlfriend. Whether they are engaging in a sexual relationship or not, she has a right to know what her boyfriend has been doing. I would also want to teach my son the importance of honesty and integrity. If he starts out thinking it is okay to mess around with other people at 13 whilst in a relationship, what about when he is 18, 25, 30?

Oh and I say that as a mother of two boys.