Relationships or mental health.... I don't know. I do know that I'm desperately unhappy

[sorryforthenamechangebut]

I've had to name change, I'm sorry. But My DP knows my username and I need some advice without him searching for me.
This might be long, just to warn you, as I'm trying to get down everything, but I will do my best to make it easy to read.

I think I'm in an emotionally abusive relationship, but I don't know for sure.
I don't know if it is me, or if he has anger management issues

Something hugely traumatic happened to us twice last year. I don't want to disclose details as it will out me, but I have struggled with day to day life since. I have had various counselling and CBT and it has been suggested (not diagnosed) by one of my therapists that I may have PTSD and PND as showing all the signs.

As I say, I can't manage day to day life terribly well. So many things trigger me, but I am trying to find a way to make peace with it and pretty much failing TBH. DP is desperate to move on. So am I, but I can't seem to find a way right now.

DP tries to be patient with me. He really does. But he is a talker (well, shouter) and I hate confrontation. Always have.

He always says "we need to talk more" but when we do he raises his voice at me, swears at me, and points his finger. And if he doesn't do all that, or if I ask him not to shout, his tone is extremely authoritative and can still be very intimidating even when he isn't shouting.
He says things that, to me, sound like he's saying one thing, then when I get confused and misunderstand he gets more angry.

I end up with my head swimming in confusion wondering what has happened. The more he shouts at me, the more confused I get about what he is saying. I tell him that all this tension is my fault because of the trauma and how its affected me and I apologise to him all the time. I tell him I hate myself for feeling the way I do and that I wish the pain would just go away.
But he says how can he love me when I don't even love myself. That he's a big believer in loving yourself in order for others to love you.

But its a vicious circle because I feel like this tension makes me hate myself, it gives me low self esteem. Especially when he is shouting at me. I just want to hide away and put my hands over my ears and hope that I disappear into thin air, just to make all the pain of the trauma and the shouting to stop.

I have always been a fairly confident person. When we first met nearly two years ago, I was even more confident as he used to constantly tell me how gorgeous/hot I was and he used to want to spend so much time with me, and text me all day. Sending me flowers to my office and going out of his way to make me happy and spend time with me. Things were so perfect. I'd never seen this side to him ever, nor had I ever seen this side to anyone.
But then we experienced this awful thing, twice, and things started to change.
I can't just be upset, I can't talk to him when I'm upset because that is when the anger starts. It's like he's forgotten how to be gentle and soothing and comforting. And if he doesn't shout at me, then he becomes really distant. When I need him the most, he spends more time away from me, almost withholding affection unless I specifically ask for it - then it isn't sincere. All I need is a hug and some gentle reassurance that we'll get through this together. But he says that is false and he should be allowed to be angry as it is 'just another emotion' All I ever say to him is "all I need is a hug" and he just refuses and says "it's all about what YOU want". "I'm such an ogre aren't I". "I've been hugging you but it is never enough!" "I'm such a prick, aren't I..." etc etc...

When these episodes happen, I get worse. I've never been so deep in depression in my entire life. A few weeks ago I even frantically searched for the pain killers so that I could just drift away and never come back, but he ran after me into the bathroom and took them from me. I was just so desperate to escape the hatred coming from him. It was a stupid moment of sheer desperation. Then it happened again, the next time he had an 'episode' I became so low that I hid in the bathroom and self harmed. I've never ever done anything like that before. And it didn't feel good afterwards, in fact I felt incredibly stupid, but I just didn't know where to turn. I almost wanted to see the pain I was feeling so badly.

I feel like he would rather see me deeply distraught than hug me and soothe me.

What is wrong with me? Is it me even? I have never experienced this kind of anger before. Completely and utterly unforgiving anger comes from him. Like nothing in the world will make him compassionate and loving.

Is it a form of narcissism even? I see that word thrown around on here regularly and googled, then found several articles. He seems to tick so many boxes, but am I just searching for a blame? Maybe it is me. If I wasn't so caught up in this trauma, if I could just find a way to move forward, everything would be ok.

All I know is that I just want all this to stop. I desperately want us to return to what we had and for me to make peace with these awful events. I just wish so much that I could have the DP I had before, and I am sure he wishes he could have the DP he had before.
We had such a perfect relationship. Really perfect. The love was so strong we always said nothing could break us. But now I'm sitting here broken into so many pieces that I don't know what to do anymore.

Like I said above, I used to be fairly confident. But I am just a shell these days. I don't know if that is because of the trauma, or because of the way DP treats me, or both. I just don't have any self confidence anymore.

But after saying all that, (and this is such a cliche and I've read this sort of thing time and time again with an massive eyeroll) but when he is not being like that, he is utterly amazing. Everyone adores him and he does so much for everyone. My own mum thinks he's the bees knees. Despite me confiding in her and driving to hers in tears in the middle of the night, she still thinks he's brilliant. My DC think he is too, despite him being very strict with them. All my friends think he's perfect for me and unlike anyone else I've ever been with, that I am so lucky to have someone like him.

This just makes me think it must be me.

I will probably regret posting this. There isn't much point TBH because even if you all tell me to leave him, I can't . I just can't.
I guess I just need some kind of understanding of all of this and reasons why he can't just hug me and tell me its all going to be ok, and that we can get through this together.
Maybe some suggestions on how to cope with his talks/outbursts without becoming a crying sobbing wreck, thus making things even worse.

And as I said, it sounds as if there is something else you are grieving for here. You were happy with two children, weren't particularly keen on having any more, and suddenly you have an unexpected pregnancy which you sadly miscarry and you become obsessed.

Perhaps there is another underlying loss that you are also grieving for here.

OP you are coming across as so self-absorbed! It really isn't all about you.

I noticed upthread you mention your DP has agreed to sort out his 'anger and trust issues'. Ok, we've gone one his anger issues but what do you mean by trust issues? Apart from saying he doesn't trust you not to get pregnant again (valid concern considering your obsession over a rainbow baby) but what other trust issues are you talking about? You haven't mentioned any...

one over

BelarusianDoll
OP you are coming across as so self-absorbed! It really isn't all about you.
Hahaha! No! Really? Thank goodness, I'm so glad you have cleared this up.
I will explain again. Like I said, I will keep on doing so until something clicks, I know people like to skim read long threads - I do it too so it's no problem.
Perhaps the reason I want to overcome my want for a Rainbow is because it is not all about me. Perhaps the reason I want to accept DP's decision rather than push for a rainbow is because it is not all about me. Perhaps the reason why I dislike bringing up my pain and grief around DP - ie to avoid him feeling guilty, perhaps the reason why I want to spend more time with my lovely children, perhaps the reason why I want to spend more time with my DP - you know happy family time? Perhaps the reason why I am busting gut to improve things all round, perhaps the reason why I am always making sure DP feels appreciated (or at least I try my damned best), perhaps the reason why sometimes I put on a fake smile when I'm feeling down so as not to upset or anger anyone. You know, fake it until you make it? Have you heard that saying before? I happen to believe there is something in that,
But yes, think we've already worked out I live in this warped world where people are nice to eachother and you look out for eachother. If that is self absorbed in your world and if that makes it all about me in your world, then fair enough. I cannot argue with what goes on in your world can I.

DistanceCall - I think of my lovely DC all the time. The main reason I am trying my absolute hardest to overcome this. They will always come first.

Might I just put a gentle reminder in for people who refuse to read the thread.

I am getting on day to day. Yes I have struggles at some point, who wouldn't when they have lost two babies? It's quite normal. I am quite happy getting along, enjoying time with my family (including my lovely DC - pretty much goes without saying that they are my family in case anyone was mistaken here), trying to better my life by spending more time at home with a work from home career which I will be starting in September (hopefully!) this means I will have more time to spend with my DC. I can't wait actually. Thinking of all the things we can do together instead of getting home at 6:30pm and rushing them to eat dinner, have baths and go to bed.

But perhaps, again, this is my warped world? Wanting to spend time with my DC? Perhaps this makes me a bad mother or something? I don't know.. I'm not sure what you're getting at to be honest. I haven't mentioned them because they are not the cause of my progress being shoved backwards. My thread is about DP making me talk, then berating me for it. I was asking if I was being emotionally abused. But you have now decided that its me who is abusing him from the sounds of it. So perhaps I should carry on pandering to him and taking it whenever he loses it with me? I'll carry on being a doormat shall I? And sitting there while he pushes me further and further down, shall I? I could, but I can't guarantee I'll ever be myself again. There is only so much emotional torment one person can take.

And I''m sorry for the tone, but I am exasperated and seem to be flogging a dead horse here. I feel like I'm just repeating myself over and over.

And as I said, it sounds as if there is something else you are grieving for here. You were happy with two children, weren't particularly keen on having any more, and suddenly you have an unexpected pregnancy which you sadly miscarry and you become obsessed. Perhaps there is another underlying loss that you are also grieving for here
This is probably the most sensible comment on here. I have often wondered why it has affected me so much. I know the years of TTC the DC was very very hard. That was when I became obsessed with TTC. I think the main reason I didn't actually (realistically) want to TTC again was because I couldn't put myself through all that heartache again, and I was so lucky to have the two I managed to eventually have. But then when we fell pregnant with our first loss ("we fell pregnant" is DP's phrase, I know MNers don't like it) I couldn't believe it, I was in utter disbelief. To me it was an impossibility. But there I was, pregnant, and I think I became so attached to our baby because it was so unlikely. I was smitten from the moment I saw those two lines. And Miscarriage hadn't even entered my mind. I'd never had a MC before. You just don't hear about it do you. I did everything right, and (back then) I still believed that if you look after yourself then what could go wrong. Because no one ever talks about it! We both invested so much into our baby. We sold our flats and bought a house together. Somewhere we would be a family. I'd been to breastfeeding classes even because my DC almost starved when they were babies and I wanted to try and make it work this time so I started early at La Leche League classes which were wonderful. I took the pram we'd chosen for a test run around the department store, and had chosen the furniture for our baby's bedroom. A room that is now empty. DP was totally on board with organising things for our little one. We nearly bought the car seat even - his suggestion.
So we were both extremely invested (stupidly in hindsight) in this beautiful thing that would bring us together as a unit.

Then, we tried again, conceived while we were in Florence. I maybe living in a dream world, but it was just so perfect and the chances of a second MC are very low. So again, when we saw those two lines we were overjoyed. We'd get our second chance.

So I think this is why I am grieving so hard. Not to mention all the babyloss support groups teeming with couples TTC their Rainbow. It is literally all anyone talks about. There is not really a safe haven or forum for those who won't have their rainbow when they desperately want it. I have since left many of those groups as they were not helping me at all.

AlabamaShakes
Apart from saying he doesn't trust you not to get pregnant again (valid concern considering your obsession over a rainbow baby)
Pardon me, but I am not the next contestant on Jeremy Kyle or something. Any decent human being wouldn't dream of secretly getting pregnant. That is disgusting and what on earth kind of good would that do? Do you know people who have done this? I don't.
Even if I wanted to (which is preposterous) I can't even begin to imagine how. It takes two people to make a baby remember. You may think I'm 'unstable', but I'm not a sociopath or whatever the word is.
I love DP and my DC. The thought of going against DP's back horrifies me to be frank.

But yes, the trust issues are his. Nothing to do with anything I can or cannot do. When he first told me a few days ago, during his rage, that he doesn't trust me, I was horrified. Devastated. I asked why on earth why wouldn't he trust me, and he said because I told him I couldn't get pregnant. Which, to me, was the absolute truth at the time. He took that as gospel that I had been sterilised, but I will add that he didn't ask me. He never probed me on this. I told him I had PCOS, and he didn't ask anymore. We used contraception mostly, but occasionally we didn't and I reassured him that after all my years TTC it really wasn't an issue. In my ten years experience, I physically could not get pregnant without medical intervention. He knows this, he knows how hard it was and what a shit time it was TTC to DC. The problem for him is because I told him I couldn't get pregnant without interventions, and miraculously I did, he does not trust me. We spoke about this and I have come to realise that this is not my issue, it is his and he needs to learn that it is nothing too do with trust.
But I am sure you will all tear me a new one and tell me how disgraceful I was for telling him I couldn't get pregnant without interventions...because we can all see into the future, right?

I shall await the attacks...

Do you know what, it doesn't matter anymore. I have learnt that grief is something you should do privately, that no matter what I do to please my DP and make my DC happy, to many of you it will never be enough. I have learnt that I was wrong to feel so exasperated from DP's anger that I couldn't cope any longer. Wrong. I should have smiled sweetly and said "it's ok darling, you just shout at me, it doesn't matter. I am wrong to think that we are both grieving and should be there for eachother. That would be utterly wrong.

What else have I learnt? Oh, yeah that I am not to be trusted.

That I am self absorbed.

But you know what? We are going to work through this. Your comments have not been very helpful. What has helped me is seeing my lovely friend and spending some time away from DP. We've all had such a good time. I popped by the house this morning and DP was there and we had a lovely cuddle and a kiss. We will be going home tomorrow.

Thank you to the people in the beginning for convincing me to to move out for a few days, it was much needed!

Jesus Christ the way you talk is appalling!

Oh I should just be a doormat shall I? I'll just bend over shall I? I'll just abase myself will I? I'll just let him say what he wants will I? I'll just never open my mouth again, will I? Will that make all you bitches happy? WILL IT?

Good god, cool the fuck down. You are a Perennial Victim aren't you? Jesus.

I think maybe elspeth you may need a grip yourself.
Me? I'm so chilled I'm practically horizontal. I feel quite serene. This break has been wonderful for all of us.
Funny you say the way I speak is appalling. I could say the same for many others on here. But I won't. I hope you can calm down. It's not good to be so wound up

The impression I am getting from people is that I shouldn't be talking or even thinking about our losses. That DP is a saint. Meanwhile I'm this horrific unstable crazy bitch. I just find it extremely coincidental that I lose the ability to cope only when I'm made to talk and get emotionally kicked.
That's all. It's quite simple.
This has turned really quite nasty, just like the last thread did, because people hiding behind a computer can't just be civil and they immediately jump to conclusions without reading what I have been saying over and over.

It's a beautiful evening, why don't you go and sit in the garden. Put your feet up, and stop stressing about something that is so far from the truth it's on another planet.

I'm looking forward to going back home tomorrow, chilled and smiling. I actually am not really that bothered if you think I'm whatever it is you think I am. We are all entitled to our opinions.
Happy Friday all!

Op

I think this thread has given you plenty to reflect upon.

Some very harsh opinions given but hopefully you will mull them over. It would be hard not to. I believe the responses will help you.

So, from what you said, you are grieving because you felt/feel that a baby would make you and your partner a "real" family?

OP, your partner never wanted children. He was probably mainly happy because he saw you were so happy.

Children don't make a relationship. Or a family. You already have children, and your partner loves them. No future is perfect. But you have your future, your life, your family, your love, right in front of you.

Are there any things you want from life other than a baby?

And again: don't treat your partner as if he were your therapist. Even if he insists on placing himself in that position.

You go to a therapist (as I do) because there are things you need to work on that you cannot talk with your loved ones - they are not equipped to deal with it, and they shouldn't have to be. The beauty of therapy is that the therapist is someone who cares very deeply for you but is not directly entangled in your messes, so to speak.

I hope this is of help.

Wow OP, I can see why you're having so much conflict with your DP. You are passive aggressive one minute, gas lighting the fuck out of people the next or youre completely over reacting.

He has very good reason to believe you might do that. But that's not really enough of a trust issue to need therapy for.

I'm starting to get the impression that you're trying to manipulate your DP into thinking there is something fundamentally wrong with him so you don't have to change YOUR behaviour.

And you don't need to be the next contestant on Jeremy Kyle, your shit is out there for everyone to see

Distance I don't want to use DP as my therapist. This is the problem. He won't drop it until I speak to him.

But people here seem to think I'm hassling him with my issues when, in reality, it couldn't be further from that.

One thing I've learnt from this is the fact that I have to stand up to DP and know that I don't have to tell him things if I don't want to.

Regarding the baby thing? I liked the fact DP didn't want children because I didn't want to put myself or anyone else through the battles of TTC with PCOS. We were having a great time before our little one came along. Then, when we got those lines, we surprised each other by being excited about it. Something neither of us had envisaged.
When we lost our baby I turned to babyloss support groups. They were incredible and had lost babies at all different stages, some earlier, some later. Problem is with these groups is they use the fact that they can try again as their healing. So many heartbroken couples had healed after having their rainbow. The charity, Tommy's is very big on Rainbows. It's just something that seems so expected, which is quite like to put an end to.
And DP was totally on board with trying again. By this point I was well and truly sucked into the idea that we would eventually meet our baby. That the room that was for our baby, will be filled again. It's quite an emotional strain to have to ignore that gut instinct. But I know that I have to make peace with it else things won't get easier.
Future wise? I want to carry on being happy with my lovely family. I'd like DP to not quiz me on my feelings. Just let me be content. No more shouting. No more belittling. Just calm.
Holidays, more family days out, couple stuff, and just being a happy family and enjoying our new life in the country. We moved nearly a year ago and we still have painting to do so I'm looking forward to making the place our own and putting our stamp on it.

Ideally I'd like for us to have a small disposable income so we can do all the above! But there are plenty of free things to do. It really is beautiful in and around our village

It sounds then like you need to sit down with your partner and tell him this. That you are working on your feelings with your therapist and that it really doesn't help you when he prods and prods you.

Also - and I mean this in the kindest possible way - I think it's probably time to let go of the "babyloss" world. It has helped you through a rough time, but you can't remain there forever. It sounds as if by now it's doing you more harm than good. You can't turn your miscarriages into the centre of your identity - which they seem to be now.

I agree distance! I've already come away from most. Pretty sure there's just one group left on FB but I'm not on there at the mo so can't remember.

When we go home tomorrow I will talk to DP, but I will explain that I will only talk about my feelings with a professional. Anything else is cool, but I will not go through that experience again.
I need to make a pact with myself and for my children. If it happens again, he will lose us all.
Thanks all! 🌺

I liked the fact DP didn't want children because I didn't want to put myself or anyone else through the battles of TTC with PCOS. We were having a great time before our little one came along. Then, when we got those lines, we surprised each other by being excited about it. Something neither of us had envisaged.

Oh for goodness sake. You started a thread about 2 WEEKS before you found out you were pregnant asking about how to come to terms with having met your perfect man but the only big disappointment was that he was adamant he didn't want to have children. You said then that you had such a strong desire for another child with him and you didn't know you'd be able to get over it.

didn't know IF you'd be able to get over it.

Gosh, was it only two weeks? I can't remember when I got those two lines to be honest. But if you're right, then I wonder if my hormones had convinced me I wanted another child. Because I'd have already been pregnant by then and not known... interesting question though, thank you.

I haven't looked back on that thread as I'd forgotten about it until someone mentioned it upthread. I do remember having a sudden panic that if our relationship worked out, that I would definitely not be having any more children. But I think it was more of a panic, rather than something DP and I would actually do. Regardless, even then, I knew it could take years of TTC. Probably why I had that panic given my age.

Have a lovely day all

I think I would be quite angry with you if I were your dp, if I had never wanted dc and believed that you could only get pregnant with intervention, and a few weeks after you being thoroughly upset about never having another baby, you found you were pregnant. Even if I believed you rationally that you hadn't been deceptive, there would be that emotional undercurrent of doubt.

It seems very odd that everything is going swimmingly and you're faking it til you make it, but he then prods you to breakdown point. Could it be that you're actually not doing that great a job of being the supportive ray of sunshine you think you are, and that it's obvious you're miserable or resentful? Otherwise his behaviour seems very strange.

OP I've been reading your thread but haven't commented because I've had my own issues to deal with.

Dont beat yourself up I can see you are coming from a good place - we are "allowed" to have mixed emotions when dealing with something as difficult as you have been through. It's not easy coming into a new relationship especially with a past. I think you have a good relationship underneath it all - both you and your DP have had to deal with big issues -DP not wanting kids but then coming round - it isnt clear from your post - does he have kids? Did he want them in the past but couldn't for some reason? Is it to do with his relationship with his dad? There will be some underlying reason why he didn't want them and maybe he was masking some previous pain - but he changed his mind when faced with the unexpected in a good way.

You have had to deal with becoming unexpectedly pregnant - and then losing a baby not once but twice - and no doubt all the issues about you previously TTC resurfaced.

You also moved in together - all this has happened in a relatively short time and the decision to do this was as a result of the baby. You may have ended up together anyway but so much has happened in such a short space of time. Your situation would be enough to test any couple without all the past relationship stuff coming into the mix.

The fact that your DP is prepared to go to counselling is also a good sign - he cares enough about the relationship to want to deal with his issues that impact on you. And talking is the only way issues get resolved and some form of compromise is reached. But we are not taught how to communicate effectively and really listen to each other.

I get why you come on MN - you were in despair and needed some support - but sadly a lot of people's support is tainted by their own insecurities and this comes through in their posts.

OP, do you have a diagnosis of a personality disorder? You talk the talk but seem to have little true empathy.
As I have read on this and other of your posts, you had two miscarriages and it sounds as if you felt this loss an awful lot more than your partner.
I have had miscarriages, I have also lost a grown child, the two are not comparable I can promise you that.
I have lived with someone with a personality disorder and I very well know the absolute frustration and, indeed, fury, living with that on a day to day basis. I feel terribly sorry for your partner

I'm not sure what your relationship is with alabamashakes but you need to ditch her - she makes out she is on your side but I don't feel she is genuine - she has some reason to continually try and put you down and undermine what you are doing. But be grateful to her for she has helped you find your true values.

I think you and DP have a pretty good chance of getting through this - you have both been through a horrendous time and have both been hurting for all sorts of reasons but he wants to talk and not many men are capable of this. Yes he gets angry but that's because he has not been taught how to express his hurt feelings in any other way. Maybe he also not leant to hug and give comfort. We all have different upbringings - most of these fuck us up - some realise and try to do things differently to give our kids a better life - some are completely oblivious to themselves but think they can judge other people.

The space has done you good - maybe some joint counselling if you cannot work things out yourselves. But be kind to yourself and each other - I hope things work out for you both. X

Eh? I don't know the OP personally

Have you read the OP's previous threads/blog?

OP have you had long term counselling to deal with your miscarriages? I know you mentioned trying out counsellors but not sure if you are seeing someone. Sorry if I missed this.

I find myself having all sorts of thoughts about your relationship. I find it odd that you think it's great apart from the issues around your pregnancy loss - almost like you think the good times are the real relationship. How a relationship stands up when life is difficult is absolutely central. It's easy to be happy together when things are good. The real test I think is surviving those difficult times.

But that said, your grief and your need for a "rainbow baby" would be testing for any relationship. I worry that perhaps therapy has validated your feelings without helping you move on. That doesn't sound like good therapy.

Your talk about faking it till you make it sounds like a mental health disaster for you imo. And if you have written about your feelings as I understand you have, then of course he isn't fooled.

I had a period after a couple of pregnancy losses where I was focused on having a child being the only way to feel better. I am lucky that it was a very short period of time for me. I might not understand the grief you feel, but I do have a tiny bit of insight into that desire for a baby.

I think you either need a new therapist or you need to recalibrate where you are with your existing therapist - think about your goals.

Good luck

testname hange I am glad you asked that question because I wondering exactly the same thing.