Relationships or mental health.... I don't know. I do know that I'm desperately unhappy

[sorryforthenamechangebut]

I've had to name change, I'm sorry. But My DP knows my username and I need some advice without him searching for me.
This might be long, just to warn you, as I'm trying to get down everything, but I will do my best to make it easy to read.

I think I'm in an emotionally abusive relationship, but I don't know for sure.
I don't know if it is me, or if he has anger management issues

Something hugely traumatic happened to us twice last year. I don't want to disclose details as it will out me, but I have struggled with day to day life since. I have had various counselling and CBT and it has been suggested (not diagnosed) by one of my therapists that I may have PTSD and PND as showing all the signs.

As I say, I can't manage day to day life terribly well. So many things trigger me, but I am trying to find a way to make peace with it and pretty much failing TBH. DP is desperate to move on. So am I, but I can't seem to find a way right now.

DP tries to be patient with me. He really does. But he is a talker (well, shouter) and I hate confrontation. Always have.

He always says "we need to talk more" but when we do he raises his voice at me, swears at me, and points his finger. And if he doesn't do all that, or if I ask him not to shout, his tone is extremely authoritative and can still be very intimidating even when he isn't shouting.
He says things that, to me, sound like he's saying one thing, then when I get confused and misunderstand he gets more angry.

I end up with my head swimming in confusion wondering what has happened. The more he shouts at me, the more confused I get about what he is saying. I tell him that all this tension is my fault because of the trauma and how its affected me and I apologise to him all the time. I tell him I hate myself for feeling the way I do and that I wish the pain would just go away.
But he says how can he love me when I don't even love myself. That he's a big believer in loving yourself in order for others to love you.

But its a vicious circle because I feel like this tension makes me hate myself, it gives me low self esteem. Especially when he is shouting at me. I just want to hide away and put my hands over my ears and hope that I disappear into thin air, just to make all the pain of the trauma and the shouting to stop.

I have always been a fairly confident person. When we first met nearly two years ago, I was even more confident as he used to constantly tell me how gorgeous/hot I was and he used to want to spend so much time with me, and text me all day. Sending me flowers to my office and going out of his way to make me happy and spend time with me. Things were so perfect. I'd never seen this side to him ever, nor had I ever seen this side to anyone.
But then we experienced this awful thing, twice, and things started to change.
I can't just be upset, I can't talk to him when I'm upset because that is when the anger starts. It's like he's forgotten how to be gentle and soothing and comforting. And if he doesn't shout at me, then he becomes really distant. When I need him the most, he spends more time away from me, almost withholding affection unless I specifically ask for it - then it isn't sincere. All I need is a hug and some gentle reassurance that we'll get through this together. But he says that is false and he should be allowed to be angry as it is 'just another emotion' All I ever say to him is "all I need is a hug" and he just refuses and says "it's all about what YOU want". "I'm such an ogre aren't I". "I've been hugging you but it is never enough!" "I'm such a prick, aren't I..." etc etc...

When these episodes happen, I get worse. I've never been so deep in depression in my entire life. A few weeks ago I even frantically searched for the pain killers so that I could just drift away and never come back, but he ran after me into the bathroom and took them from me. I was just so desperate to escape the hatred coming from him. It was a stupid moment of sheer desperation. Then it happened again, the next time he had an 'episode' I became so low that I hid in the bathroom and self harmed. I've never ever done anything like that before. And it didn't feel good afterwards, in fact I felt incredibly stupid, but I just didn't know where to turn. I almost wanted to see the pain I was feeling so badly.

I feel like he would rather see me deeply distraught than hug me and soothe me.

What is wrong with me? Is it me even? I have never experienced this kind of anger before. Completely and utterly unforgiving anger comes from him. Like nothing in the world will make him compassionate and loving.

Is it a form of narcissism even? I see that word thrown around on here regularly and googled, then found several articles. He seems to tick so many boxes, but am I just searching for a blame? Maybe it is me. If I wasn't so caught up in this trauma, if I could just find a way to move forward, everything would be ok.

All I know is that I just want all this to stop. I desperately want us to return to what we had and for me to make peace with these awful events. I just wish so much that I could have the DP I had before, and I am sure he wishes he could have the DP he had before.
We had such a perfect relationship. Really perfect. The love was so strong we always said nothing could break us. But now I'm sitting here broken into so many pieces that I don't know what to do anymore.

Like I said above, I used to be fairly confident. But I am just a shell these days. I don't know if that is because of the trauma, or because of the way DP treats me, or both. I just don't have any self confidence anymore.

But after saying all that, (and this is such a cliche and I've read this sort of thing time and time again with an massive eyeroll) but when he is not being like that, he is utterly amazing. Everyone adores him and he does so much for everyone. My own mum thinks he's the bees knees. Despite me confiding in her and driving to hers in tears in the middle of the night, she still thinks he's brilliant. My DC think he is too, despite him being very strict with them. All my friends think he's perfect for me and unlike anyone else I've ever been with, that I am so lucky to have someone like him.

This just makes me think it must be me.

I will probably regret posting this. There isn't much point TBH because even if you all tell me to leave him, I can't . I just can't.
I guess I just need some kind of understanding of all of this and reasons why he can't just hug me and tell me its all going to be ok, and that we can get through this together.
Maybe some suggestions on how to cope with his talks/outbursts without becoming a crying sobbing wreck, thus making things even worse.

lalegue I'd be really interested in hearing the answer to my question regarding your comment

I have read your previous posts.

The problem is not your relationship. Your husband sounds like a very good man at the end of his tether, who really doesn't know how to cope any more.

You need to get help for yourself. As I said, therapy. Talking therapy. Grief is normal, but this isn't. It really isn't.

OK. You asked.

As much as you might be supportive of him in day to day life in all the ways you describe, those things are just window dressing. There is massive underlying resentment there. Your blog and previous threads hammer home over and over that you struggle to come to terms with his decision and although you don't say it, you clearly hold it against him. He is single handedly responsible for your pain. In fact even before you knew you were PG the first time you were posting just 6 months into the relationship, asking how to come to terms with a new partner who categorically didn't want children, then miraculously, 2/3 weeks later you are PG. This alone begs a load of questions about what sort of conversations you had about BC and your supposed/assumed infertility or fertility issues, but never mind that.

The fact that he is encouraged to read this stuff, as part of the deal of loving you, rubs the salt in the wounds for him. It reminds him of how he could make this make all of this go away if only he was man enough and loved you enough to give you what you need to make you well and whole again.

The stuff you write (and you write extremely well and very persuasively by the way) is a very passive-aggressive, emotionally loaded (non) acceptance of his very valid feelings. You say on the one hand that you respect his feelings and understand the logic behind them. But the subtext is that he is slowly killing you.

He was very open about never wanting kids in the first place but he has bent over backwards to be supportive once he thought it was a fait accomplis. Then he bent over backwards to heal you and give you what you wanted after the first miscarriage. Perhaps by this stage he was fully invested and wanted the same thing - I don't know,. But once he realised it wasn't going ever going to be straightforward, easy or even guaranteed, he felt entitled to say STOP. Enough pain. Enough stress. Enough indulging a fantasy. Let's get our life back.

But you won't stop. You use your blog to tell him, his friends and his family, that he is cutting you to the core every day. You sugar coat it, but only a fool would not understand the subtext.

So I hope that answers your question. And I sincerely hope you can find peace and a happy life with this man who loves you. But if that's not possible then for Christ's sake set one another free. There is too much pain here for this to go on, unresolved.

And to read that back has actually made me well up with tears. Someone upthread said they were disgusted by my views. Well I am just some randomer on the internet who can say what I really think without having to be diplomatic because I don't know you, so you can bet that what I am saying is what many of your supportive friends and family are thinking. You can dismiss it as cruel/irrelevant or not. Your choice.

I completely agree with LaLegue.

Thank you Distance because that was hard to write.

Would someone please PM me the OP's blog (or her other username)? I feel like I am only getting half of the conversation here. What the OP is saying sounds so drastically different from what those "in the know" have gathered and having suffered some of the same issues as the OP I am genuinely interested to know what is going on.

Thank you for your response lalegue You are obviously completely entitled to your opinion However I wish you were a fly on the wall, guarantee you'd have a big change of mind.

Bloody hell, I totally forgot about that first post about thinking about wanting another baby! I think that was a bit of wishful thinking, I wasn't actually expecting to get pregnant. I have PCOS. Tried hard to have the DC. I don't just get pregnant, like that. I need my tubes flushed through with dye and various other interventions. I was with my ex-husband for 10 years and rarely used protection, got pregnant twice in that entire time, both times had medical interventions, plus charting, temping, and anything else I could do to work out when I was ovulating. It was a horrible time. Everyone else around me was falling pregnant when they pleased, meanwhile I was get negative test after negative test.

To fall pregnant with DP by surprise, and then again (planned this time) stunned me. I was absolutely gobsmacked and yes very very excited because that just doesn't happen to me after so many years of heartache. I think that was why I was so invested in the pregnancies, because, to me, they were an absolute miracle (not that I am religious, but I can't describe it in another way)

Anyway. I am going off to enjoy a nice glass of prosecco with my dear friend I think I might move in here

Have a nice evening all!

Who got my post Deleted? Show yourselves.

I also agree with LaLegue.

I'm glad you've come back to this thread OP. It must be hard for you to read but it would be helpful if you could engage properly without throwing insults and accusing posters of trying to deliberately hurt you.

It's very difficult to articulate what you want to say while trying not to use triggering words that upset you OP. This has happened numerous times on other threads that result in you accusing posters of attacking you and then calling them vile, cruel and looking for a reaction from you. You've done it on this thread. The people who are trying to help you are also part of that 'babyloss world', the very topic you post on. When you don't like something you hear you tell these women (who are also posting because they have experienced the same thing) that they need educating on miscarriages and how to grieve. That is cruel on your part OP, and you have upset the people that have tried to help you when you're in despair. You seem to only want validation of your feelings but won't accept how other people see/feel things. That's not how support works.

With regards to my comments about you being unwell - depression is a mental health illness, and you are unwell with depression (you've said so yourself) at the moment. The incidents with the pills and self harming is evidence that your depression has reached crisis point. This must be addressed and treated by professionals, not by your DP to handle on his own. You must tell your GP to help keep you and your children safe. I believe your refusal to accept that you are unwell is hindering your recovery. This has extended far beyond grief over your losses. The grief has made you very unwell. There is a difference between the two.

LaLegue's post has articulated the 'cattle prodding' of your DP very well. I do wonder if he has tried to tell you this but you won't take in what he is saying, hence the anger and him saying that all you talk about is babies (previous threads) and it's all about you. I can see what he is saying, it's all about how you feel and fuck everyone who doesn't feel the same - they're cruel, vile, abusive or just want to upset you, and then you see it as your mission to talk about babyloss even more to stop it being taboo etc. Can't you see that in your behaviour OP?

All the above needs you to have insight on how your behaviour is impacting on those around you.

You don't need to keep thanking people/your DP, being passive and gentle etc. and wanting hugs and compassion etc. It's suffocating and very needy behaviour that would drive most people to despair.

It would be good if you continue with this thread. Not all of it is going to be what you want to hear, because people are responding to what you have said. You will get support and compassion but posters will also challenge some of the things you are saying and doing.

Does it matter why he behaves the way he does? Does it matter whether we label him an abuser, or a narcissist or damaged? He is damaging you. You don't have to justify leaving/throwing him out.

I'm sorry bad things happened and changed things. But it is what it is. Fair or not. You cant change it. But you can change what is happening now.

Ok scrap my last post. Id missed the last page and clearly there is a lot more going on here.

I agree that the whole narrative of "being denied my Rainbow baby" is corrosive to him because who is denying you? Him. It puts him in the clear role of your jailer and your tormentor and the one who is refusing you healing.

And you talk about being denied your Rainbow baby a LOT. You always say you dont say it at home - in fact your description of yourself at home is pretty perfect. You're the epitome of sensitivity and consideration and your children have never been happier, right? But with respect you dont need to bang on about it at home. He knows your username and youve talked about it loads on here. As far as I can recall, your blog (which he has contributed to) has an entry "for those of us who'll never get our Rainbow baby" or somesuch.

So I do have some sympathy for the guy cos the subtext is "You have a right not to want to give me my Rainbow baby but I have a right to be suicidal over your decision" which is not a very healthy foundation for a relationship to say the least, particularly when his reaction is to be really angry.

The story of your short relationship seems to be: Your grief, his insensitivity, your loss, his struggle to be more sensitive, your grief, his irritation, your grief, his anger, your grief, his families joy in his sisters pregnancy, your grief, his families exasperation, your grief, his increased anger, your grief, your grief, your very public grief. Your grief is like a magnet, and everything is forced to slam against it.

Another thing i'll add, and I dont expect you to agree:

Having had a lot of bereavement myself, and witnessed a lot of death in my job.....the living matter more than the dead

And you talk about being denied your Rainbow baby a LOT. You always say you dont say it at home - in fact your description of yourself at home is pretty perfect. You're the epitome of sensitivity and consideration and your children have never been happier, right? But with respect you dont need to bang on about it at home. He knows your username and youve talked about it loads on here. As far as I can recall, your blog (which he has contributed to) has an entry "for those of us who'll never get our Rainbow baby" or somesuch.

You've got a very good point here. However, the OP has contradicted herself numerous times. Denying saying these things to the DP is the opposite to 'I tell him over and over and over again that I am trying to make peace with his decision not to have a rainbow baby and that he needs to help me come to terms with it' (slight paraphrasing) on many other threads. So which is it OP?

No one will understand our own personal pain but ourselves, and insisting that your DP/other people must understand and feel your pain is wrong. You say you get support online through babyloss groups but from what I have seen, you only listen and respond to people who go along with you, or validate your posts on your blog. It's like you have created your very own echo chamber. You say you want to get better but you seem to want to remain in this chamber because to do otherwise will mean you have to face certain truths/reality to your situation/behaviour.

One particular thing that I would like your honesty on OP..

You are insisting that your DP is lost and has 'issues' regarding the loss. I can't see it from what you have written, on any of your threads. I can't quite put my finger on it but it doesn't come across this way. I think he is struggling with what is happening to you and your relationship. But it seems as though you want him to feel your pain and because you are in a black hole of despair over the loss, you want to drag him in there with you. You insist that he needs therapy because of the trauma, but I wonder if he really does and is just going along with it because it's what you want. From what you've said he is desperate to move on and his behaviour backs that up. I

You are insisting that your DP is lost and has 'issues' regarding the loss. I can't see it from what you have written, on any of your threads. I can't quite put my finger on it but it doesn't come across this way. I think he is struggling with what is happening to you and your relationship. But it seems as though you want him to feel your pain and because you are in a black hole of despair over the loss, you want to drag him in there with you. You insist that he needs therapy because of the trauma, but I wonder if he really does and is just going along with it because it's what you want. From what you've said he is desperate to move on and his behaviour backs that up.

This. Your DP didn't want a baby to begin with. He isn't as invested as you are, or as traumatised as you are. He is traumatised by the effect that this has had on you.

Also - of course having two miscarriages is something to grieve. But it sounds as if you are grieving for something else, which has been displaced onto these pregnancies. It's as if you were stuck in the process of bereavement, and I don't think it's only about your lost pregnancies. As I said, I think you need to discuss it with a therapist.

So, if I understand correctly, what I am doing is driving him away? Pandering to him, thanking him for every little thing he does for fear of him thinking I don't appreciate him, organising date nights, organising free family days out (ie picnics and long walks in the woods and hills), making sure I clean up after the children (if they don't) so he doesn't get cross with them, telling him I've had a good day (even when I haven't) and asking him about his day, getting excited about my new venture, Updating him on how well my blog is doing (something he actively encourages and supports and reads), finding Netflix series we can watch together, telling him I love him daily and giving him the attention he needs, taking the children down to the London Marathon and creating a huge poster to cheer him on... There are so many more but all these things come naturally and I enjoy doing them so it is hard to list things I do naturally. Please could you tell me what exactly it is you think will 'drive him away'? I'd love to be him to be honest, so I am very very confused

I don't know wtf is really going on in your life, just what you post here. I get that you have had a major trauma. But this ^ would drive me totally nuts. I would be VERY angry and repulsed with a partner who dished up this objectifying flood of non-stop, ghastly, passive aggressive shit at me whilst complaining that she is not given the specific sort of support that she needs. This isn't a relationship, it is deeply, deeply unhealthy. I cannot understand why he is still with you. I am not being nasty, but if you have any feeling for him you should help him to go.

OP I think you are really, really stuck. Do you think you are stuck? What could YOU do to help yourself?

I can't believe you are still together!

It's wrong and it won't last!

The man has been torn to shreds on tinternet for a start!

You both want different things and thsts the elephant in the room.

Yep ^

The people who are part of the OP's echo chamber have branded the DP as cruel for not giving her a 'rainbow baby', and the OP responds positively to those posts. Anyone who says otherwise is called a nasty bastard and then told they need education on child/baby loss.

No wonder the DP is getting angry, he's getting slated for making a very sensible decision

I must live in a very warped bubble then.
If someone is upset, no matter how long their pain goes on for, I'm there. Physically hugging them, allowing them to cry on my shoulder. I listen to them and let them cry it out. Let them open up and gently respond if they need advice, sensitively. I want to help in anyway I can. Whether they are a friend, a partner, or family.

In my warped world, people who grieve lost loved ones have my love and attention whenever the need it and for ever long it takes. I guess that's the type of people I've always surrounded myself with so I like to be able to do the same for them. Silly eh!
"Do as you would be done by" is something I have always believed in. So I treat people with kindness and, if they're hurting, I want to be there for them and most of all be sensitive to their needs.

My bad, eh? A foolish understanding of life perhaps.

Yes, I did say over and over again that I just need his love and support in getting over the need of a rainbow. But only when he gets mad at me after trying to get me to talk. Just like I give him love and support. I would do it for him if it were the other way around.

I still don't understand why some of you think it is perfectly acceptable to belittle and intimidate the person you're in love with when you have asked specifically for them to be open?

Someone said I was even suffocating him, or words to that effect. This confuses me too.
I barely talk to him all day, when he comes home I like to give him attention, why not? I don't smother him. We kiss and cuddle, we are a very affectionate couple. Both of us. He has been affectionate towards me from the very beginning, I wasn't so much but soon realised I liked being affectionate with him and we fell for each other. I always like to make sure he knows I appreciate what he does by thanking him loads. Because he needs this. Otherwise I am not appreciative. Although lately I'm not appreciative regardless of thanking him. And they are genuine thanks, I'm not doing it just because he needs it.

He's being torn to shreds? Interesting.
I think it's both of us to be honest.
This thread has bred some very aggressive posters. From both angles.

I'm on my phone so I can't go back and retrace what you've said but I honestly cannot be bothered to try to justify myself or DP much more.
I've learnt from latest posters that it is perfectly acceptable to shout and intimidate someone when they are having a hard day, despite most days being good and having fun as a family and as a couple.

Clearly it is me who is causing him to be so angry. Just like I asked at the beginning in my OP.

So, let me get this straight, actively finding my own CBT therapist and councillor and taking anti depressants, and thinking of family fun days out, and finding a new venture to better my mind, and spending more time with my children, and running, and thinking up things we can do as a couple, and going out with friends again, and writing a blog, and thinking of new ways to broaden my mind, reading new books, etc. This is not enough to help myself?
I should be doing more, right?

I should be doing more and I should stop feeling sad about losing our two babies. Even privately.

But, you know what? I personally truly believe that if he didn't get mad at me after making me talk, that I could have almost healed by now.

Regardless, I am going to believe that he will get some help. Just like I am helping myself.

Thank you for your wise words and this new understanding of life and how ridiculous I am for thinking otherwise.

Emotional abuse? Pah.
The moral of this story is, if someone forces you to talk to them and forces you to be open about your feelings, rather than carry on being happy, you deserve to be belittled and yelled it.

You learn something new every single day.

Goodnight all.

Actually, you know what? I should practice this on my friend. The one who very kindly is putting us up for a few days.
Her lovely gran sadly passed away last year.
I think, what I should do (seeing as this is perfectly acceptable) is force her to talk about her gran. I'm going to keep on at her until she talks. Then, when she does finally open up, I'm going to shout at her and belittle her and tell her she's cattle prodding me and point in her face while she's sobbing and I'm going to make her feel as small and as empty as I possibly can.

That's ok, isn't it?

Shall I let you know how that works out tomorrrow?

I'd also really appreciate a pm with the OPs other user name or blog. It is really difficult to know what's going on without the full background.

I think friends and family who were initially supportive and sympathetic must be pulling their hair out by now and secretly thinking you've lost the plot

You replied: 'They're being very secretive and are fucking amazing actors then, because they are going out of their way to encourage me... Please elaborate"

No, they are not. I get the impression that some are still trying to be as supportive as they can muster, but encouraging you? I don't think so.
In fact some of them desperately want you to stop.

Look, I am not going to start lifting things verbatim from other threads, but you know it is not entirely true that you still have unanimous, unquestioning support.

You said yourself on another thread that your inability to move on from this is starting to push people away. You've given specific examples of things said by friends and family other than your DP.

The people who care about you are becoming increasingly frustrated and bewildered by you, and concerned about your mental state. And they have compassion fatigue.

Op

think about it, he didn't want children to start with and he doesn't want them now. He is and has tried to offer emotional support but his resources aren't never ending. He's probably fed up of going over and over the same thing.

For his own mind, he has put this behind him or is trying to so I think you should allow him that freedom.

I don't agree that people are happy to be a never ending resource of support.

Blogs, posts, forums, therapists - that's a lot of outlets you have got - if it hasn't worked by now there is no use turning to him as he will also be at the end of his rope wondering what the hell to do with you.

Start living for the now, look forward and plan for tomorrow - or stay stuck.

I don't think posters have set out to hurt you - they've said things you don't want to hear, but it's coming from a place of compassion.

And I'll say this with compassion too, although it's not going to sound that way: you are locked into the Victim role in the Triangle . You swing between treating your DP as your Persecutor and trying to fix him so he can be your Rescuer. You're treating posters and real-life people in the same way - Rescuers if they go along with your narrative and Persecutors if they won't.

Your grief and despair are absolutely real, and that's why you deserve compassion. But you're looking for the wrong solutions - you're trying to reinforce the Victim/Rescuer relationship. It feels nice when people reaffirm your strategy but the strategy is keeping you trapped.