Relationships or mental health.... I don't know. I do know that I'm desperately unhappy

[sorryforthenamechangebut]

I've had to name change, I'm sorry. But My DP knows my username and I need some advice without him searching for me.
This might be long, just to warn you, as I'm trying to get down everything, but I will do my best to make it easy to read.

I think I'm in an emotionally abusive relationship, but I don't know for sure.
I don't know if it is me, or if he has anger management issues

Something hugely traumatic happened to us twice last year. I don't want to disclose details as it will out me, but I have struggled with day to day life since. I have had various counselling and CBT and it has been suggested (not diagnosed) by one of my therapists that I may have PTSD and PND as showing all the signs.

As I say, I can't manage day to day life terribly well. So many things trigger me, but I am trying to find a way to make peace with it and pretty much failing TBH. DP is desperate to move on. So am I, but I can't seem to find a way right now.

DP tries to be patient with me. He really does. But he is a talker (well, shouter) and I hate confrontation. Always have.

He always says "we need to talk more" but when we do he raises his voice at me, swears at me, and points his finger. And if he doesn't do all that, or if I ask him not to shout, his tone is extremely authoritative and can still be very intimidating even when he isn't shouting.
He says things that, to me, sound like he's saying one thing, then when I get confused and misunderstand he gets more angry.

I end up with my head swimming in confusion wondering what has happened. The more he shouts at me, the more confused I get about what he is saying. I tell him that all this tension is my fault because of the trauma and how its affected me and I apologise to him all the time. I tell him I hate myself for feeling the way I do and that I wish the pain would just go away.
But he says how can he love me when I don't even love myself. That he's a big believer in loving yourself in order for others to love you.

But its a vicious circle because I feel like this tension makes me hate myself, it gives me low self esteem. Especially when he is shouting at me. I just want to hide away and put my hands over my ears and hope that I disappear into thin air, just to make all the pain of the trauma and the shouting to stop.

I have always been a fairly confident person. When we first met nearly two years ago, I was even more confident as he used to constantly tell me how gorgeous/hot I was and he used to want to spend so much time with me, and text me all day. Sending me flowers to my office and going out of his way to make me happy and spend time with me. Things were so perfect. I'd never seen this side to him ever, nor had I ever seen this side to anyone.
But then we experienced this awful thing, twice, and things started to change.
I can't just be upset, I can't talk to him when I'm upset because that is when the anger starts. It's like he's forgotten how to be gentle and soothing and comforting. And if he doesn't shout at me, then he becomes really distant. When I need him the most, he spends more time away from me, almost withholding affection unless I specifically ask for it - then it isn't sincere. All I need is a hug and some gentle reassurance that we'll get through this together. But he says that is false and he should be allowed to be angry as it is 'just another emotion' All I ever say to him is "all I need is a hug" and he just refuses and says "it's all about what YOU want". "I'm such an ogre aren't I". "I've been hugging you but it is never enough!" "I'm such a prick, aren't I..." etc etc...

When these episodes happen, I get worse. I've never been so deep in depression in my entire life. A few weeks ago I even frantically searched for the pain killers so that I could just drift away and never come back, but he ran after me into the bathroom and took them from me. I was just so desperate to escape the hatred coming from him. It was a stupid moment of sheer desperation. Then it happened again, the next time he had an 'episode' I became so low that I hid in the bathroom and self harmed. I've never ever done anything like that before. And it didn't feel good afterwards, in fact I felt incredibly stupid, but I just didn't know where to turn. I almost wanted to see the pain I was feeling so badly.

I feel like he would rather see me deeply distraught than hug me and soothe me.

What is wrong with me? Is it me even? I have never experienced this kind of anger before. Completely and utterly unforgiving anger comes from him. Like nothing in the world will make him compassionate and loving.

Is it a form of narcissism even? I see that word thrown around on here regularly and googled, then found several articles. He seems to tick so many boxes, but am I just searching for a blame? Maybe it is me. If I wasn't so caught up in this trauma, if I could just find a way to move forward, everything would be ok.

All I know is that I just want all this to stop. I desperately want us to return to what we had and for me to make peace with these awful events. I just wish so much that I could have the DP I had before, and I am sure he wishes he could have the DP he had before.
We had such a perfect relationship. Really perfect. The love was so strong we always said nothing could break us. But now I'm sitting here broken into so many pieces that I don't know what to do anymore.

Like I said above, I used to be fairly confident. But I am just a shell these days. I don't know if that is because of the trauma, or because of the way DP treats me, or both. I just don't have any self confidence anymore.

But after saying all that, (and this is such a cliche and I've read this sort of thing time and time again with an massive eyeroll) but when he is not being like that, he is utterly amazing. Everyone adores him and he does so much for everyone. My own mum thinks he's the bees knees. Despite me confiding in her and driving to hers in tears in the middle of the night, she still thinks he's brilliant. My DC think he is too, despite him being very strict with them. All my friends think he's perfect for me and unlike anyone else I've ever been with, that I am so lucky to have someone like him.

This just makes me think it must be me.

I will probably regret posting this. There isn't much point TBH because even if you all tell me to leave him, I can't . I just can't.
I guess I just need some kind of understanding of all of this and reasons why he can't just hug me and tell me its all going to be ok, and that we can get through this together.
Maybe some suggestions on how to cope with his talks/outbursts without becoming a crying sobbing wreck, thus making things even worse.

endofthelinefinally I am so very very sorry. Similar thing for me, but obviously very very different at the same time. I am so pleased you are able to look after eachother

FrenchLavender - no I'm sorry. I shouldn't have leapt down your throat. I've just had so many naysayers and assumptions thrown at me on past threads (one of the reasons why I wanted to try and keep this one anonymous). Thank you for kind advice

Stormtreader Naicehamshop- I keep thinking you're right, that it is abusive and he's showing the classic signs. But maybe he'd not have been like this if we hadn't experienced what we did. I guess I'll never know.

Update is he has come home. He's furious though. He looks at me with absolute contempt and hatred. I asked him why he's so angry with me and he was shocked that I didn't know. Saying I'm cattle prodding him all the time. I asked for examples and he couldn't give me a firm answer. But he carried on looking at me like filth.
Said our trauma was caused by a monumental mistake. That I am not taking responsibility for it. Mainly because 1. I didn't do anything deliberately and 2. What came out of it was beautiful, but it resulted in our trauma. I don't know why I'm still trying to talk in code as it is blatantly obvious what happened.
He said we have an awful lot to talk about right from the very beginning until the end and he can't promise it will end well.

I just find myself nodding along in tears, saying sorry and not even knowing what I'm saying sorry for.

I'm not strong enough to stick up for myself. All I can do is take it like a fool. But am I a fool? If what he is saying is true, then maybe I am deluded. He said I keep tryign to justify everything and won't take responsibility for this "monumental mistake".

I can't see it like that. I see it as a beautiful surprise . I guess that is why I can't seem to accept responsibility. He said he can't trust me that I won't let it happen again. This was a huge blow.
He doesn't trust me. He thinks I am going to go against his wishes which is absolutely preposterous to me. I feel so empty and I think I'm always going to be the 'naughty child' who needs a good telling off every so often to keep me on the straight and narrow.

He doesn't trust me. I can't get those words out of my head

Sorry springydaffs that was the wrong thing to say. I guess my only experience of abusive relationships are the friends of mine who go from one abusive relationship to another since forever. But they are not everyone. Sorry.

Oh that was it. He also thinks I'm not doing enough to help myself. That, despite having CBT and weekly counselling, I should be "spending every minute of every day finding a suitable therapist" His words.

That he can't help me anymore. That I don't appreciate him at all. I asked how when I thank if constantly and always offering to help and always showing my gratitude. I asked him how else can I do that. He said "by enjoying life"
So. He wants me to be able to feel everything I need to and be open with him about my feelings, yet he wants me to enjoy my life. Despite being traumatised and trying to get all the help I can.
I organised a family picnic when we last had the DC for the weekend, bringing along a dog we'd borrowed, a lovely walk through the countryside hills, the again a couple of days later, a lovely family walk. Taking fun photos and generally having a fun time.
We went out for a meal together. Something I suggested for a "date night" so we could inject some fun into our lives. He koans we can't afford things like that though.

I bought him a ride in a racing car for Christmas. Something I thought we could go and watch him do as a family. We went to the local motor racing circuit as a couple and took a picnic and had a fabulous day watching the cars.
Yet I'm still not enjoying life.

I genuinely don't think I'll ever be enough for him.
But I need to be saying this to him, not you lovely people

Im still not appreciating him or enjoying life.

He's got a perfect partner in you.

You're a people pleaser who gets a high from when someone approves of you.

So he can withhold his approval for as long as he wants and when he gives you a scrap, he gets a massive response of gratitude and bigging him up, which then gives HIM a high.

This is an addictive abusive cycle. That's why you feel like you can't leave. My exDH had exactly the same pattern in place with me, that's why I recognize it.

You need to leave. You're going to feel like you're withdrawing from heroin when you do, because you'll be cutting off the source of your high. But you will survive those feelings, if you give yourself time to go through withdrawal.

It's OK to hurt. You will survive. But you're not going to survive this if you don't get away from him.

since you've had this trauma, that you feel somehow you deserve it
Sounds that way to me, too: on some level you feel like you are not worth more?

Have you ever been with someone who treated you kindly and considerately?

Hi OP, I'm sorry things are not better for you. I remember who you are and your previous threads, and whilst it's not the done thing on MN to bring other threads into it (more so when youve name changed) I don't think it's helpful to you or to anyone posting with help and advice to not understand the history. Ive also read your blog that youve linked to previously (you're a wonderful writer by the way)

I feel very sad for you that your situation is deteriorating further and you don't feel you're getting the support you need.
However, and I'm trying to say this as gently as I can, I do believe you are quite unwell and that your DP is struggling because he has found himself in a carer role and he doesn't sound equipped to deal with it.

Please don't think I'm deliberately trying to upset you but I think it's best to be honest. Some of your threads have been quite upsetting and disturbing for some posters, and whilst you have found a lot of support online, I don't believe these groups have done you any favours in the long term.

I'm trying my best not give too much detail because I don't think it would be fair to you in case this thread can be linked to your previous threads, but if IIRC you were allocated a CPN. Do you still have this input?
If not, I think you need to visit your GP because your mental health is not improving (self harming and the pain killers episode) and your DP is unequipped to deal with this alone.

With regards to your DP, I'm very sorry to say this but I don't believe your relationship can recover from all this happening in such a short space of time. He's not handling it well, and because of that you're sinking deeper into depression. He shouldn't be shouting at you etc when you're feeling this way, but he also sounds like he can't cope with whats happening and some of your way of thinking. I should imagine it's becoming quite isolating for both of you due to your triggers, which if I'm honest, seem to be quite extreme.

It's very hard to give appropriate advice without going in depth, and I don't want this thread to be too identifying for you so I want to be careful with what I write, but I seriously believe you need some professional support and a break from your partner. Living in this constant cycle of upset and tension must be awful for you.

You come across as a lovely woman and I hope you find the peace you so desperately want, but I do agree with PP in that you both need a break from each other

OP he sounds like a classic abuser to me. He minimises your feelings, when he's not belittling or ignoring them.
He gets angry at you for being you.
He withholds affection until you have deserved it.
He holds you in contempt for being you
He blames you for things you are not responsible for

You are making excuses for him. You 'want his arms round you'?? Not going to happen - not now. And even if he is 'nice' DP, you will be on eggshells, waiting for it/him to break and show his other side (nasty DP)

Please get him away for even a short time. Remove his contempt for you and your attempts at healing (they won't help until you have space to work it all out) and you might be able to see a bit more clearly.

Does your gp know what's going on at home?

I'm concerned for you op

ravenmum - ^since you've had this trauma, that you feel somehow you deserve it
Sounds that way to me, too: on some level you feel like you are not worth more?^
I agree. Since he has had these episodes with me, I absolutely do feel like I'm not worth more. He's made me so confused that my head is swimming and I have no belief in myself anymore. I still son't understand why he is so angry at me.

Have you ever been with someone who treated you kindly and considerately? - Well, I've had past relationships that were not right. I've made silly choices, for sure, but I can honestly say they were not abusive. There was no shouting and intimidation, ever. With any of my past relationships. The only problem I've had with men in the past is that I've chosen grown up children. I've ended up mothering my past boyfriends and my Ex Husband. But I ended those.

This time, DP was different. When we met he was wonderfully considerate and caring and such a breath of fresh air from the usual 'manchildren' from my past. He was an adult, we shared the same dark sense of humour and had the same taste in so many things. We gelled, totally. We used to joke that we were the male/female versions of eachother.
Then this happened. But even before he started these shouting angry episodes, we were the same with eachother. Just totally smitten and in love.
Stupidly, I am still in love with him. But this episode, and your wise words, and his trust issues with me as made me see him in a new light. I've been awake since 4am thinking I need to get out for a few days. I think I might take up my friend's offer of staying with her for a few days with the DC. She only lives half an hour away so is close enough to still get the DC to school. I just don't know how the DC will feel being uprooted to a house they don't know. I don't know if it is the right thing to do regarding them. I know children are adaptable, but taking them out of their home for a few days... is that fair on them?

Then I have another way of thinking and tell myself DP is just frustrated and angry and is just using me to release that. Maybe I should just let him have his 'tantrum' and take a step back somehow. One of my therapists gave me a great flow chart which I'd forgotten about. It was titled 'What is my worry/concern?' the next question is whether it is fact or fiction. Now, I know in my mind that all the things DP is throwing at me is fiction. I know that I care for him and appreciate him and do my best to make life fun where possible. So if I choose 'fiction' I go to the next point which is 'use distraction'. If I can distract myself with something then perhaps he will eventually get bored of attacking me.
I do think I'm enabling him by crying and becoming weak and apologising and telling him I love him. That needs to stop.
It is easier said than done though. And I really can't seem to stop the 'I don't trust you' comment out of my mind.
It's such a brutal thing to say to someone you're supposed to love and care for. But that is just my way of thinking.

It's all so confusing and I'm trying to train myself to think rationally because if I keep letting it get to me in the way it has, then he will kill me.

If I can just leave him to have his tantrum, then perhaps he will get fed up of having these episodes, knowing that it doesn't affect me.
Is that wishful thinking?

springydaffs - No, not exactly. I've told one GP that things are 'difficult' at home. but I've not gone into detail. My CBT nurse knows, but I've not seen her for a while so she doesn't know quite how bad it has got lately. I might give her a call today and see if she can see me soon.

Your partner sounds dreadful. How can you get through something if the one person who is meant to love and support you is behaving like this? It is easy for people to be nice when like is good but we see their true colours when life throws challenges. Your partner is showing you his true colours. Your life will continue in this vein because in his eyes you are the problem, so he has no need to change.

Please don't bring your kids up in this environment. If you won't leave for yourself do it for them.

Have you heard of EMD as a form of therapy for extreme trauma? It has been used with lots of people with severe PTSD and may help you. However, your partner will still be an abuser.

Speaking to the professionals sounds like a good idea, as you can't just make yourself be rational when your mental health is suffering.

The trust thing is about blame, is it? He's blaming you? Making it all out to be something you did, so that he can distance himself from it? Maybe it is more about him distancing himself and being blameless and good? Which just happens to require someone else to blame for it all?

Was he actually considerate at the start, putting his needs second sometimes without even making a big deal of it, or was it more about gestures and sweet-talking you? If he is not being kind and considerate now, you are going to have to be a bit more kind and considerate to yourself, aren't you? Expecting people to be actively kind to you, rather than just "not abusive", is really not expecting a lot.

Maybe you could sell the stay with a friend to the children as a kind of holiday, or that you are helping your friend out or something??

It truly isn't you

I don't know the full background, but I think you should listen to AlabamaShakes.

This is a horrible environment for your dcs. Frankly, I don't think ti matters whether you or your DP is in the wrong, together you are a toxic combination.

Right now, you've got to drop the fantasy of the golden relationship. It's doing you no good trying to chase it. You've got to think what you need to do to create a peaceful environment for the dcs. Go for peace and stability over the exciting love affair. All this drama is just too much.

Don't waste your energy on fixing situations when what you need to do is leave.

Said our trauma was caused by a monumental mistake. That I am not taking responsibility for it. Mainly because 1. I didn't do anything deliberately and 2. What came out of it was beautiful, but it resulted in our trauma. I don't know why I'm still trying to talk in code as it is blatantly obvious what happened

I'm not really into cryptic but is it something like...unplanned pregnancy. He initially didn't want the baby but you did, so you talked him round. He then got over the shock and embraced the idea, but the baby died shortly after birth (hense the trauma). So he's angry because if you'd had an abortion in the first place the trauma would never have happened? But as he came round to the idea of having a baby he's also grieving the loss as well as blaming you for the situation? Or am I barking up the wrong tree completely? It would help to know what happened as it might help us understand why he's reacting the way he is. But regardless of why, the 2 of you aren't working through it at all well together so you at least need some time apart.

He's come downstairs (I'm WFH as can't face gong into the office) and he's decided to be at home too. He said he needs to get some more sleep but afterwards did I want to 'talk'. I said 'yeah, ok..'

I just know what 'talking' means though. I've decided I'm going to record it. Just so I can play it back to myself and see how he's confusing me.

Was he actually considerate at the start, putting his needs second sometimes without even making a big deal of it, or was it more about gestures and sweet-talking you?
I think it was the latter, actually, thinking about it. He spends a lot of time making big gestures for people. Like he needs to prove himself to people all the time. He always goes above and beyond when he doesn't need to, then he wonders why he is so exhausted. Then tells me I don't appreciate what he does etc.. When all along I've thanked him over and over, and also told him he's doing too much.

I'd better go, I can hear movement from upstairs...

Sitting there analysing every nuance of every discussion is not going to help you and is not going to fix this.

When you are telling yourself "He doesn't mean it that way" and finding excuses for his behaviour it's not a good sign. Let him find his own bloody excuses.

So now you are proposing you become so inert that his storm dies out, finding no traction.

You haven't realised it, but you are proposing the Grey Rock Method. You may have heard of it. In normal healthy relationships, it's never needed. Think about that.

I know children are adaptable, but taking them out of their home for a few days... is that fair on them?

Is it fair on them that their mother is being reduced to rubble because she insists on staying in a house with someone who is systematically destroying her? Weigh up the worst case outcomes...

Would you rather your children have to deal with:

• Staying with friends for a few nights?
• Being told that their mother has lost her sanity and has cut herself to ribbons and is now hospitalized?

You need to go.

You have children. You cannot indulge in this anymore, no matter how much you want him to approve of you and help you, you are destroying yourself by staying in the home and interacting with him.

Your children need a mother who is in one piece. Stop the analyzing. Stop the attempts to manipulate him into being the person you want him to be. Stop the "talking". Leave, take your children and go, they deserve better than this.

I am quite upset that this thread is soooo about the relationship between the OP and her DP. It sounds suffocating and nonfunctional.

But somewhere in this fraught and desperate situation there are DCs.
For their sake OP please have a break from the situation you are in to think more clearly. To give the DCs a break from what must be a very sad and tense situation.

It is sad that the children are mixed up in this situation involving someone who, in other circumstances, would just have been their mum's new boyfriend - just a minor character in their lives. They presumably still have their parents' breakup to deal with, and this complication just makes it all worse. Is there any way the children's dad could take care of them for a while?

I'm still weaning myself off the first relationship I had after my marriage broke down. He's also a real sweet-talker, every word pulls at your heart-strings, we seemed to have so much in common, kindred spirits, on the same wavelength etc. But never really came up with the goods. I was really reluctant to break it off as it felt so good, but now I've gained a little distance I am finally starting to question whether we really are kindred spirits or whether he is just a very, very good sweet talker, however brilliant that felt at the time. It's taken months of separation for the halo to start tarnishing. You're obviously still totally in awe, under the spell. A few days won't really fix that, but it might get you strong enough to start the detachment process.

He goes above and beyond not for others but for himself and when he does not see reflected back to him what he feels he should see he behaves like a monumental shit.

This man is not decent, kind nor caring - he has ulterior motives based around his need to feel adored etc etc etc. No matter how much you thank him it will never be enough for him because he will expect a perfect reflection of himself in you 100% of the time.

He's likely a very black and white, rigid thinker. When he's angry he will indulge in hyperbole and have a tendency to use 'always/never' statements in an effort to gaslight you into his way of thinking.

He probably cannot even see what he is doing so deep he will be in his cognitive distortions.

The last partner I had like this came within inches of nearly completely breaking me. I came very close to not being here for my children, ever.

You need to get away from this man and go no contact.

Take a look at the Out Of The Fog website - hopefully it'll help you begin to see a little more clearly.

We are going tonight. I have told him. Just for a few days.

He has said he is going to get counselling and he apologised for his behaviour.
He never ever apologises, so I'm a bit stunned to be honest.

We are still going. It will be good to have a breather and to take a step back, for all of us.

I still question whether it is abuse, or he is just very frustrated at the whole situation. He's gone from single man living on his own, with a disposable income, to having a long term partner a new house, and two step children, and no disposable income, plus a very tough year or so. He has suffered with the traumas too amongst lots of other health problems between us all.
Some of you will say I'm making excuses, but it really has been a very very hard time. We have had so much shit thrown at us in such a short space of time and not been together that long. It would put a strain on the most patient of people and the longest relationships. I don't agree with the way he has expressed his emotions but, having been raised in quite a charged and expressive family, it is all he knows. Just like I was raised in a quiet non-talking family, so being calm and tactful is my norm.

DoIDontIhavethetalk I took a look at that website. There are an awful lot of disorders. More than I've heard of. I think most people would fall under one of those headings. I even recognised myself in one. It is an interesting read though, so thank you for sharing.

He's apologised because he's 'hoovering) (see 'cycle of abuse' on OOTF)

If he really means it he will have no issue whatsoever moving out so you and the children don't have to uproot yourselves and leaving you alone for some time (not weeks) whilst he sorts out his issues.