Relationships or mental health.... I don't know. I do know that I'm desperately unhappy

[sorryforthenamechangebut]

I've had to name change, I'm sorry. But My DP knows my username and I need some advice without him searching for me.
This might be long, just to warn you, as I'm trying to get down everything, but I will do my best to make it easy to read.

I think I'm in an emotionally abusive relationship, but I don't know for sure.
I don't know if it is me, or if he has anger management issues

Something hugely traumatic happened to us twice last year. I don't want to disclose details as it will out me, but I have struggled with day to day life since. I have had various counselling and CBT and it has been suggested (not diagnosed) by one of my therapists that I may have PTSD and PND as showing all the signs.

As I say, I can't manage day to day life terribly well. So many things trigger me, but I am trying to find a way to make peace with it and pretty much failing TBH. DP is desperate to move on. So am I, but I can't seem to find a way right now.

DP tries to be patient with me. He really does. But he is a talker (well, shouter) and I hate confrontation. Always have.

He always says "we need to talk more" but when we do he raises his voice at me, swears at me, and points his finger. And if he doesn't do all that, or if I ask him not to shout, his tone is extremely authoritative and can still be very intimidating even when he isn't shouting.
He says things that, to me, sound like he's saying one thing, then when I get confused and misunderstand he gets more angry.

I end up with my head swimming in confusion wondering what has happened. The more he shouts at me, the more confused I get about what he is saying. I tell him that all this tension is my fault because of the trauma and how its affected me and I apologise to him all the time. I tell him I hate myself for feeling the way I do and that I wish the pain would just go away.
But he says how can he love me when I don't even love myself. That he's a big believer in loving yourself in order for others to love you.

But its a vicious circle because I feel like this tension makes me hate myself, it gives me low self esteem. Especially when he is shouting at me. I just want to hide away and put my hands over my ears and hope that I disappear into thin air, just to make all the pain of the trauma and the shouting to stop.

I have always been a fairly confident person. When we first met nearly two years ago, I was even more confident as he used to constantly tell me how gorgeous/hot I was and he used to want to spend so much time with me, and text me all day. Sending me flowers to my office and going out of his way to make me happy and spend time with me. Things were so perfect. I'd never seen this side to him ever, nor had I ever seen this side to anyone.
But then we experienced this awful thing, twice, and things started to change.
I can't just be upset, I can't talk to him when I'm upset because that is when the anger starts. It's like he's forgotten how to be gentle and soothing and comforting. And if he doesn't shout at me, then he becomes really distant. When I need him the most, he spends more time away from me, almost withholding affection unless I specifically ask for it - then it isn't sincere. All I need is a hug and some gentle reassurance that we'll get through this together. But he says that is false and he should be allowed to be angry as it is 'just another emotion' All I ever say to him is "all I need is a hug" and he just refuses and says "it's all about what YOU want". "I'm such an ogre aren't I". "I've been hugging you but it is never enough!" "I'm such a prick, aren't I..." etc etc...

When these episodes happen, I get worse. I've never been so deep in depression in my entire life. A few weeks ago I even frantically searched for the pain killers so that I could just drift away and never come back, but he ran after me into the bathroom and took them from me. I was just so desperate to escape the hatred coming from him. It was a stupid moment of sheer desperation. Then it happened again, the next time he had an 'episode' I became so low that I hid in the bathroom and self harmed. I've never ever done anything like that before. And it didn't feel good afterwards, in fact I felt incredibly stupid, but I just didn't know where to turn. I almost wanted to see the pain I was feeling so badly.

I feel like he would rather see me deeply distraught than hug me and soothe me.

What is wrong with me? Is it me even? I have never experienced this kind of anger before. Completely and utterly unforgiving anger comes from him. Like nothing in the world will make him compassionate and loving.

Is it a form of narcissism even? I see that word thrown around on here regularly and googled, then found several articles. He seems to tick so many boxes, but am I just searching for a blame? Maybe it is me. If I wasn't so caught up in this trauma, if I could just find a way to move forward, everything would be ok.

All I know is that I just want all this to stop. I desperately want us to return to what we had and for me to make peace with these awful events. I just wish so much that I could have the DP I had before, and I am sure he wishes he could have the DP he had before.
We had such a perfect relationship. Really perfect. The love was so strong we always said nothing could break us. But now I'm sitting here broken into so many pieces that I don't know what to do anymore.

Like I said above, I used to be fairly confident. But I am just a shell these days. I don't know if that is because of the trauma, or because of the way DP treats me, or both. I just don't have any self confidence anymore.

But after saying all that, (and this is such a cliche and I've read this sort of thing time and time again with an massive eyeroll) but when he is not being like that, he is utterly amazing. Everyone adores him and he does so much for everyone. My own mum thinks he's the bees knees. Despite me confiding in her and driving to hers in tears in the middle of the night, she still thinks he's brilliant. My DC think he is too, despite him being very strict with them. All my friends think he's perfect for me and unlike anyone else I've ever been with, that I am so lucky to have someone like him.

This just makes me think it must be me.

I will probably regret posting this. There isn't much point TBH because even if you all tell me to leave him, I can't . I just can't.
I guess I just need some kind of understanding of all of this and reasons why he can't just hug me and tell me its all going to be ok, and that we can get through this together.
Maybe some suggestions on how to cope with his talks/outbursts without becoming a crying sobbing wreck, thus making things even worse.

If he really means it he will have no issue whatsoever moving out so you and the children don't have to uproot yourselves and leaving you alone for some time (not weeks) whilst he sorts out his issues

That makes much more sense than all of you having to move out, frankly.

But even if he isn't an "abuser", his reactions to the situation you are both in are extremely unhelpful, to say the least. What good is a spouse or a partner who makes a bad situation ten times worse?

And the counselling? I'm just wondering if that will help him. He says he's had counselling for other issues before so I do believe he will do it.
I don't think it is just a throw away comment.
I suggested anger management the other day which he agreed to also.

He must recognise he has an issue else he wouldn't be up for these suggestions, would he?

Do people with genuine personality disorders even recognise or agree there is an issue there?

Atenco Yes I 100% agree that his reactions are extremely unhelpful. But so is my utter despair and weakness.

The Hoovering is interesting - I'd not heard of it before - and I will take all this with a large pinch of salt.

I have to say though, I'd rather us go away for a few days, then have DP go away. He will go to his dads and I don't believe that is a healthy place for him to go, given his upbringing. If his dad has the same personality issues (and I am starting the believe he does) then he might well make things even worse. DP has his own mind, but it is very easy to have ideas and thoughts planted by someone else isn't it.

OP - abusers promise all kinds of shit when they feel they may be losing their control.

And at the risk of offending you: your OH is a grown up who is responsible for himself - where he goes is up to him. Your priority is the children and any decent person worth their salt who had realised they had gone off the rails and needed to shape upwould realise that and do the leaving.

Yes I 100% agree that his reactions are extremely unhelpful. But so is my utter despair and weakness

I'll grant you that, but from what you have said here, his behaviour is contributing to your despair and weakness.

Ok, this will probably get a few backs up on this thread but there is so much more to this than what the OP has alluded to on this thread.

OP, by changing your name and not knowing what else you've posted previously, people can't offer you appropriate and supportive advice.

You are a prolific poster on a certain topic and quite active online in general, all regarding the same subject.

Another poster on here has pretty much hit the nail on the head with regards to your DP's frustrations that you subsequently denied doing, but you've wrote otherwise on your numerous threads and on your blog. You may believe you haven't said it to your DP (which contradicts previous threads) he will know about it from your blog, which he has contributed to. Hence him saying he feels 'cattle prodded'. You should know what I mean by saying that.

I believe he is angry at not just you, but himself also by giving your loss a full identity and future life that never was. He unwittingly colluded in this fantasy not realising how much this would affect you, and you have maintained this line of thought ever since which has alienated you both from social situations due to your triggers, and upset his family to the point they had to tell you to stop and block you on social media.

There is a distinct lack of insight on your behalf, which is understandable because you are unwell. Your thoughts and feelings about this trauma are very real to you, and you deserve professional support and treatment to overcome this, but I can see why other people are struggling with it, in particular your DP. I believe he is very frustrated and in despair at your insistence that your loss was greater than the reality, whilst very upsetting to any one going through it, your reaction and behaviour since has been quite extreme and disproportionate. Posters have tried to help you on your other threads but you refer to them as naysayers etc. And they in turn are upset and disturbed by your thoughts about this and how you behave. It is not your fault, but I think it is extremely difficult to be around on a daily basis.

Your DP is not equipped to deal with this. People who are unwell and in crisis can exhibit behaviours that seem very manipulative to the person on the receiving end, hence your DP's anger and contempt.
When you argued and you ran to look for the painkillers and self harmed during a separate incident, that can come across as manipulating your partner to pacify you and not leave, even if it wasn't your intention at the time. There are many other instances of this type of behaviour and things youve said to him on other threads that can be seen in the same way.

I don't believe your DP is abusive in the way that other posters believe given the history. I believe your DP is unable to cope with what is happening to you and has now resorted to a tough love approach because the comforting and going along with what you want to believe has harmed you more in the long term. I believe he needs help in managing his responses to you to avoid exacerbating your problems. I also suspect he is feeling very trapped at the moment and is overwhelmed by the responsibility of having a very unwell partner and trying to maintain some stability for two step children.

I don't think it would be a good idea at the moment for him to leave the home and you stay like other posters are suggesting. Given your recent MH crisis over the last few weeks I think the loneliness and isolation would be detrimental to you at the moment. Going to stay with a trusted friend is absolutely the right thing to do so you can get the support you need.

I do hope you can work through this for the sake of your children and your own wellbeing, with or without your DP.

Exactly albamashakes!

We cannot give appropriate advice with the cryptic posts.

I've followed this thread and still have no clue what's going on

Sorry I've kept it quite cryptic too but it's for the OP's benefit.

I did forget to add that because the OP's triggers are extreme due to possibly PTSD, the DP is reluctant to say what he really believes out load and skirts round the issues, hence his anger and frustration and the OP's confusion. It has been said by the OP on many previous threads that the DP and family say they are treading on egg shells.

Time apart from each other and OP getting support else where is what is needed at the moment because they will destroy each other and the children caught in the middle.

Sorry for typos ^ I'm on my phone

Quite the contrary Alabama - DP loves my blog and even shares each of my posts on social media, announcing publicly how proud he is of me for writing them.. So this 'cattle prodding' does not come from there.

You can tell me I'm wrong for grieving in the way I am, but you know what. He was very keen to give our child an identity - something that is entirely normal in the babyloss world, no matter what stage.

I kept this post anonymous (or attempted to, not helped by some posters here) because people like you are very very hurtful in minimising the pain of parents like DP and me. It is extremely judgemental and upsetting to be told that the child you were going to meet within a few short months was not a baby.

No matter what you think, our child was real, and this is not a debate about that. My DP is 100% on board with me on that fact. Obviously, there are some people who do not think that babies are real before they are born, but I have not asked for your opinion on that.

The reason DP is angry is because of my dream for a Rainbow baby, something that is extremely common and almost expected after loss. Especially two losses. I have told him over and over and over again that I only want our Rainbow if he does. And, given he doesn't - despite wanting to try again (and losing that one too) - I am not willing to pressure him into changing his mind again.
I only ask for his support in getting me through this desire. I haven't once asked him to change his mind for me.

Yes of course I have triggers! Ask anyone who has lost a baby. They are everywhere. But I am trying to find ways to make peace with those. I am also trying very hard to do fun things together and get our life back on track - something DP seems to be forgetting. I am constantly pandering to him and thanking him for every little thing he does. The fact is, there is no cattle prodding. I wouldn't dare, because 1. it wouldn't get me anywhere and 2. he will get angry,
But he gets angry regardless. He gets angry because I don't talk to him (which I would see as cattle prodding him) then, when I do, he explodes.

I am no innocent in this, but I am perfectly within my rights to grieve for my child and, actually, they were both children, despite losing the second one so early on. I am also grieving the Rainbow baby we will never have.

There you go, totally outed.
Thank you.

Now I await the cyberbullies and their opinions on whether I can call my children 'my children'. Why not? I can't get much further down than I already am.

Mumsnet is pretty vile sometimes. I vowed I wouldn't use it again for this, but I had hoped to keep this anonymous as I don't want to hear your opinions on my child and my grief and my feelings which are perfectly valid. Not an illness.
However, verbally attacking someone and making them feel like an empty shell and driving them to desperate measures (not threats to stop him leaving ffs). Surely someone who is grieving for their child shouldn't be subjected to rage from the one person who should be building them up.

I build DP up all the time. ALL the time. Never once have I raised my voice at him - I wouldn't dare. Never once have I sworn at him. Never once have I told him I don't trust him. When he is being nice, I feel good, there is no hurt, or anger, there is no contempt or fury from either of us. We get along enormously and are very loving.
When he is angry at me, after telling me to talk to him, I cower.

Sorry, that was very long. I guess this is for all those other parents who have also lost their babies. I am very passionate about raising awareness to wipe out the ignorant opinions and hush hush mentality.

Also, this is not 'Grief Olympics'. No one's pain is more or less than anyone else's. No one wants to be in this shit place. No one.

I'm done now. I know I can't come back now for advice, not even anonymously.

Thank you to all those who convinced me to get away for a bit and for all of your very wise advice
I'm really looking forward to being able to relax and not worry that I am going to upset DP. Hopefully he will get the counselling he very clearly needs

I didn't out you OP, you have given far more detail than you needed to in your last post.

No one has bullied you on this thread or your previous threads, certainly not me. People are trying to give constructive advice with little to go by, and it's not appropriate given what you have said previously.

Your last post is exactly what has happened on previous threads where people have tried to help you. No one has minimised your loss and pain, people are trying to help get the perspective you need to overcome this.

You have again contradicted yourself regarding your Dp's behaviour. Which is why I posted in the first place because other posters were giving advice based on your DP being abusive and a narcissist.

When you frequent forums and online groups without giving the full picture you mislead people, and when they discover the reality it is upsetting for them. It's not 'Grief Olympics' as you put it, but your thoughts and the life you have created and the insistence that this person existed is what disturbs people, given how early the losses were. You are seeking support and comparing yourself and your situation with women who have experienced still births and neo natal deaths, and then insisting they need educating on the matter when they don't agree.

With regards to your rainbow baby, this is what I meant with the 'cattle prodding'. You believe this will be your cure and only your DP can give that to you.

So many people have tried to be honest with you and help you, but as soon as you hear something you don't like you use very emotive language and accuse people of bullying you.

Upsetting you was not my intention, but it was bound to happen if other threads are anything to go by.

And btw, I am part of that 'babyloss world' too OP. Very similar situation as you, and no, I haven't had my rainbow baby, never will. Your situation is not unique to you and your DP and I certainly don't need educating.

Tbf OP I think most of use worked out the ins and outs.

I'm just concerned that there are kids in the middle of all this with no choice in the matter. Nobody seems to be thinking about what they need.

OP, this is just my 2 cents. Based on my sister who lost a child in very traumatic and tragic circumstances. The kind of circumstances people go silent over and many cry when they find out about it. i'm only putting emphasis on that because no one in the world would imagine she wouldn't need to grieve for a very long time, if not forever, over this.

Anyway, my point is, afterwards my sister was with a man who didn't or couldn't let her grieve. He effectively silenced her and there was something in him which despised her for not getting over it. He felt she was selfish to bring it up and 'ruin the mood' and he would get huffy and irritable. He punished her in many little emotionally painful ways and was a covert bully. All whilst playing the good guy to the rest of the world by being the man who picked her up and 'rescued' her and her other 2 DC. She wasn't strong or clear sighted enough to challenge his behaviour because she already felt like a failure as a mum. He refused to have a DC with her and that broke her a bit more.

She's shot of him now and with a man who gets it. She's a different person.

When you're grieving you need people around you who are able to go there with you and support you and understand the complexities of it all. My sisters self esteem was already destroyed through blaming herself for the loss of her daughter. I'm betting your self esteem is in a bad way too and i wonder if you blame yourself for how things are evolving in your family. You need space from your DPs attitude of intolerance because you are not strong enough to brush it off right now. I don't like the sound of the way he's treating you - he's being disrespectful and i can hear signs of contempt in your description of his behaviour. Once someone has got to this point you should no longer try to appeal to their better side or talk things through. You need to prioritise yourself and your other DCs and that is all.

In your op you say you met this man less than two years ago and you have kids with a previous partner. This is an insane amount of pressure and drama for them to live with. Get away from this man. Let your kids have a childhood. And don't get so deeply involved so quickly again - the stakes couldn't be higher. Your kids wellbeing.

I agree 100% with Alabama.

OP, if you're still reading, please tell your therapist about the self harm and suicide attempt. Show him/her your first post here, even.

I think others posters here should back off for a moment.

Any time anyone posts on here - first-timers or long-time users - we can only ever reply based on the information they give us. Which is always going to be biased, as we always see things through our own filters. No-one ever gives a perfectly objective, balanced view of what is going on. If we demanded that people needed to provide every detail of both sides of a story, no-one would ever post anything on this site.

If OP is in such a bad position that she can't accept any critical views, frankly I feel sorry for her. It must hurt enough as it is, without people trying to "unmask" her and saying she is bordering on delusional, however close to the truth that might be.

I hope she gets the counselling she needs. I hope she learns that the depth of feelings are real whether or not you have a mental health issue - that is, getting treatment to improve your mental health does not mean that your feelings are made up in some way.

Well said, raven. I'm frankly disgusted at some of the posts on this thread.

OP, I really hope you're ok.

You know what. I'm taking some very deep breaths. I can't let strangers on the internet get to me. They are strangers. The most important people to me are my family and all of us being happy and as content as possible.

This is why I started my blog. It was an outlet. And it has been extremely well received which has been a wonderful bonus. It is good to know that my feelings are totally normal. Every therapist I've tried and tested have told me the same, as well as a whole community of parents who have also lost babies.

I know that these strangers on the internet are looking for a reaction, and they got one in my last post.
It isn't their fault they feel the way they do (and their feeling are perfectly valid, just as anyone's feelings are, whether or not they are right or wrong).
Babyloss is such a huge taboo subject that our society has become completely shut down to anyone who dares to grieve for a child who is lost before 12 weeks. they must have mental health issues...
My mission is to help make people aware of the hurt and pain that comes with it, hence my blog. I wouldn't do it if my friends, family, DP and other complete strangers didn't encourage me. And they do, wholeheartedly. Mums at school have literally run up to me in the playground congratulating me for raising awareness and thanking me for sharing my story.
Even pregnant friends have followed every word and have encouraged me, their partners too.

The only people who tell me I've got problems because of the way I feel are a select few people on here, and DP's father.
I'm going with the majority thank you.

And, FWIW Alabama I am very sorry you are also in this shitty place of babyloss and that you were not able to have your rainbow either. I don't know your story, but you do sound tougher than I am, which is great. It is somewhere I am striving to get to.

LaLegue and Alabama I'd just like to ask you a few questions as I am quite confused by a lot of what you say, which I will outline below:

With regards to your rainbow baby, this is what I meant with the 'cattle prodding'. You believe this will be your cure and only your DP can give that to you.
Given that I don't pressure DP into having a rainbow baby. Ever. All I ask is he help me get through to the other side so I no longer want that, how does your statement work exactly? Sorry If I'm misunderstanding you completely... Maybe I am asking too much of my partner? Yes I need to find my own way, but, a bit of help along the way... is that unreasonable? You know, I don't like bringing my pain up with DP because the last thing I want to cause him is guilt. I'd much rather live our lives and, if I'm triggered, then I cry on my own. But when I'm pressured into talking about my struggles, because if I don't he won't talk to me, then I have to tell him. Then he gets mad with me. Is that not a bit of a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't'? Genuine question.

Your DP sounds like a fucking saint frankly, and I don't know how much longer he will be able to continue with this life he is being forced to live. He loves you so much, but I think ultimately you will drive him away if you don't get a grip
So, if I understand correctly, what I am doing is driving him away? Pandering to him, thanking him for every little thing he does for fear of him thinking I don't appreciate him, organising date nights, organising free family days out (ie picnics and long walks in the woods and hills), making sure I clean up after the children (if they don't) so he doesn't get cross with them, telling him I've had a good day (even when I haven't) and asking him about his day, getting excited about my new venture, Updating him on how well my blog is doing (something he actively encourages and supports and reads), finding Netflix series we can watch together, telling him I love him daily and giving him the attention he needs, taking the children down to the London Marathon and creating a huge poster to cheer him on... There are so many more but all these things come naturally and I enjoy doing them so it is hard to list things I do naturally. Please could you tell me what exactly it is you think will 'drive him away'? I'd love to be him to be honest, so I am very very confused

I think friends and family who were initially supportive and sympathetic must be pulling their hair out by now and secretly thinking you've lost the plot
They're being very secretive and are fucking amazing actors then, because they are going out of their way to encourage me... Please elaborate

For those who are supportive, I'd like to say that we are having a lovely time at my friend's house. The DC think they are in a palace (Friend is fairly wealthy) so it's a bit of a holiday really! It is good to be somewhere where we can really chill. It's a bit like a sanctuary, and I have know my friend since we were six years old so it is like being home, even though we are away. She's really looking after me. We went to a Pilates class last night which was so relaxing. It was in this beautiful stately home! Then we came home, spent some time with the DC then, when they went to bed, we had a couple of glasses of wine and a good natter. My mind feels so much more peaceful.

Tbh I just don't think you and your partner are well suited AT ALL.

You are both SO unhappy.

At what point do the two of you concede the only way to become less unhappy is apart?

We are actually very happy when he's not having one of his 'episodes'. That's why it would e such a shame to separate.

I think he may have seen the light. He has apologised for letting things get to this point, and was very tearful when we left last night. He is going to go for counselling. I think he's lost to be honest. My friend thinks so too. I truly believe he loves me. Friends can see it whenever we're together.

If he can overcome this feeling of being lost, and sort out his trust issues, then I think we will make it. I think he just has to learn that anger doesn't get anyone anywhere. And I have to learn not to let it get to me. The DC love him. DC1 was not keen to leave our family home, even for a few days. Pretty sure, if there was that much stress he would want to get out ASAP.

Come on. This isn't the first time you've posted asking if he's abusive.

Whether he is or not, there's a lot of shit in this milkshake.

He's never actually really apologised before though. I mean, either he is a superb actor or he was genuinely remorseful and terribly sad yesterday when we left.

I've posted about his anger before, yes, and it has happened a lot since he made that decision not to try again but this time it's like he has seen the light. And I think that is thanks to you guys for giving me that strength.

I feel positive that we will get back on track and, if in the time apart he decides it is for the best we separate, then I will cross that bridge then. If this break does us some good and things get better again then I simply cannot tolerate any further abusive behaviour from him. I recognise it now for what it is, whether he means it or not.

Like I said near the beginning of this post, I don't want to leave him, I guess I just wanted an unbiased opinion on whether his behaviour was out of order/abusive or not.

I now know it most probably is and we will work on this behaviour which he now clearly recognises as unhelpful

I am hugely grateful for all of your posts and advice. You're probably banging your head against the wall wanting me to end it but, if you saw us day to day, you'd see how in love we are underneath all this.

I may well look back on this one day and say "you're an idiot OP" and if I do, I'll message you all apologising for not doing what you think I should do.

I'll let you know how the next few days go

You're probably banging your head against the wall wanting me to end it

Yes but it's not necessarily the relationship you need to end.

I can't say anything further that you want to hear. This is like watching a slow car crash. I hope that you will get the help you so obviously need and I don't just mean counseling for miscarriage.