He says he doesn't want to get married.

[thisisallnewtome8]

We have been together 3 years. Over the weekend I mentioned that I would like us to get married at some point. We have both been married before. Only DP said he doesn't want to get married again. He doesn't see the point of it. It has no bearing on how he feels about me.
I feel crushed to be honest. How can he marry one person. Decide not to marry me and for me not to feel second best?
Is marriage really not important?
The reasons behind wanting to get married.

1. I love him
2. I want to be his wife.
3. I want to feel part of his family and not an outsider.

His reasons for not getting married

1. He doesn't see the point
2. It doesn't mean anything

Well that brings you back to deciding if you can live with it if this turns out to be his definite, permanent position.
You shouldn't be hesitant in talking honestly to him about your feelings on this and what you would like long term and where you saw this relationship heading.
Not sure of the timeline but when did he tell you that marriage was not in his thinking? Because it isn't an 'out there' thing for you to hsve anticipated happening, unless he told you when you met that he wasn't ever looking to get married again.

He said it yesterday as I had brought it up on the weekend and have very vague answers. I asked him directly yesterday and those are the answers he gave me. We had never discussed marriage up until that point.

Married or not, he's a keeper

I think I'd leave it be for now. Think about things for a while and see how it goes. 18 months of living together isn't thst long, esp when you factor in he has dc and you are the only serious relationship since his wife.
He might feel differently later as might you.
I think it wouldn't hurt to live together for longer and seeing how the family meshes longer term.

It doesn't seem to be a total deal breaker for you. You have time to mull over whether that is really true for you

One thing to bear in mind for 20 years down the line.

I knew a guy who was one of the kids from a set up like this - first wife had died, dad never married long term partner. Dad died. Kids inherited the house and wanted to leave step mum living in it. Advised in very strong terms not to by the lawyer because then - and sorry I don't understand the legalities - they'd be granting her a right to enjoyment, or something? Which could then have been inherited as a Right by her sister? Not sure on the details very hazy. But anyway, if they wanted their family home back at all it had to be straight away. So they forced stepmom to move out, she was devastated, tore family apart etc.

They felt terrible about it but older brother had enough cash to buy out the others from the house and live there and they really really wanted it in the family, as a big link to their dead mum.

Lawyer said if their dad had made a will giving stepmom the right to enjoy until death and then it reverting to the kids that would have been ok.

TLDR: In the very long term if you remain unmarried you should probably both have a frank discussion about wills. But I should think that's a good few years down the line yet.

I have been married before. It was a fine 16 year marriage, except for the last few months, obviously. I would not get married again. I really don't see the point any more.

I don't think wills etc can sensibly be left until "down the line".

OP's DP should make one if he hasn't already. From OP's reports, this would say that in the event of his death his parents would be the DCs' guardian, and make financial provisions for the costs of raising the DC. OP would probably have to move out immediately and access to the DC would be down to the GPs.

The will could of course be changed at any time.

Oh yes sorry Surrey I just meant that at the moment it makes sense for their wills to be 'selfish' - if that makes sense, what's mine is mine. Obviously all adults have a responsibility to make a will particularly when children are involved.

But making wills which take into account joint interests is a 'down the line' thing atm. She's only lived in his house and with his kids 18m, I don't think there's a particularly strong argument for a desire to continue living there until death. However in, say, 10 years time if they are still together, it might be a good thing to discuss.

That's a good point about changes down the line. You may need to agree to continue revisiting the house situation. It's one thing not to be too bothered now, when you've only lived there 18 months and have your own property anyway. You might feel quite differently in the future. People do sometimes get very attached to particular homes as they get older.

I've just read this entire thread. Firstly, can I just say that there is some lovely, thoughtful, balanced advice from people who are in relationships with widowers. I'm a widow who is dating a widower, but I've said on here before that our circumstances differ as my marriage wasn't entirely happy, whereas his was. The reason for saying that is the I hope the OP has found all the comments from those in a similar situation to herself useful, as it really is a very 'particular' experience, being with someone who had a happy marriage torn from them in that way.

OP, having said all that, I'm actually not convinced that the 'widower factor' is the main issue here. You sound incredibly sorted, sensible and a great person. You are protecting yourself financially while also loving your DP and his family which is great. He also sounds like a good man and clearly managed (if that is the right word) as a lone parent for many years.

I think it is just about views on the importance of marriage once you get older, and this could apply to anyone,widowed or not. What I mean is, for many people, they will marry in their 20s or 30s, and see this marriage as a framework, on which other things will be built eg children, house purchases, careers etc. By the time we are in our 40s/50s, many of those things are in place, and, if someone is not of the view that marriage is an 'end in itself' then it might not matter so much.

I was glad to read your comments about not planning to end things, but needing to think about it all. It would be very easy to have a lovely relationship brought into doubt by taking some comments to heart. Also, it is actually still quite early days in terms of your relationship, so I guess you never know.

Maybe saying no to marriage to me avoids conflict within himself at having to let go of another thing with his wife.
It's not for me to judge. He's been through enough.

I'm not qualified to say this, having never been bereaved in this way, but I'm not sure about the holding up his wife in awe thing. Awe and/or guilt. Something doesn't hang right about it.

I'm also wary of putting a man's needs before mine. I've learnt enough times this almost always backfires - men know how to look after themselves. (So shoot me.) Thinking 'the poor lamb' just doesn't work. Putting yourself on hold 'because he's been through enough' is not a good deal for you. I assume, as you're divorced and been knocking around a bit, you've also been through a fair amount yourself. So that's two of you have been bashed about by life. His needs shouldn't come first just because he's bereaved.

I also couldn't help noticing his wife had to wait a long time for marriage - and he only married her because they wanted kids. He may be anti-marriage or he may be a little bit selfish, seeing to his own needs and refusing to see hers (at the time) and yours. Because this just isn't a good deal for you, regardless how you look at it. Just because he's been bereaved doesn't mean he can't also be selfish. The fact he is wealthy won't help on the protecting his assets own needs first front, either. Is he ambitious?

Being left to bring up young children alone doesn't make him the big hero btw. PLENTY of women in their crushing hoards bring up children alone. yy he was also bereaved - but I think that has to have a shelf life and at 8 years it's close. Don't let it define him in your head. Your needs are just as important.

OP, Springydaffs is not wrong here. It seems you have made more compromises and emotionally invested more in your relationship than would be wise for you at this stage.

Thanks everyone. For some reason the reply button wouldn't come up and I couldn't answer.
I do agree that there is an element of selfishness. That ties in with being stubborn I guess.
I disagree with there being a shelf life for grief. It's odd as I've seen it over the time we've been together. If a milestone/event happens then it sometimes will bring on grief or emotion because he regrets that his late wife cannot see the children and their achievements.
I'm certainly not going to be the one to tell him he needs to get over it. It's different for everyone.
I agree that I've compromised on things that I wanted because I figured they had been through enough. But yes you're right. I have been through some pretty tough times and his emotional needs shouldn't supersede mine.
I don't think he's a hero for raising his children but like every other single parent it must be tough, it's a lonely life at times and I guess sometimes you like to be acknowledged that you're doing a good job.

I agree that in a sense grief never ends. But being stuck, wilfully or otherwise, in the initial intense grief needs to have a shelf life.

I have come a cropper on at least 3 situations where I allowed what was an essentially crap deal for me bcs I felt compassion for people who were bereaved. I've learnt my lesson - the hard way, sadly. Boundaries are always important but even more so at times like this. It may look and seem harsh but it's essential.

I disagree that not wanting to marry again is being stuck in grief.

what springydaffs said both posts ... close to genius, and bang on the money. regardless of the issue of marriage, its seems to me all the idealisation and compromise is going one way. just remember to make sure you see yourself as a real human being with needs in all this.