He says he doesn't want to get married.

[thisisallnewtome8]

We have been together 3 years. Over the weekend I mentioned that I would like us to get married at some point. We have both been married before. Only DP said he doesn't want to get married again. He doesn't see the point of it. It has no bearing on how he feels about me.
I feel crushed to be honest. How can he marry one person. Decide not to marry me and for me not to feel second best?
Is marriage really not important?
The reasons behind wanting to get married.

1. I love him
2. I want to be his wife.
3. I want to feel part of his family and not an outsider.

His reasons for not getting married

1. He doesn't see the point
2. It doesn't mean anything

My situation is slightly different to yours in that my DP and I are both divorced. He started off saying he didn't want to get married again, didn't see the point etc. I wasn't too bothered at first and wasn't sure I wanted to get married again either. I'm still not sure about it, but equally I don't like the feeling of being 'second best' or 'not good' enough to marry, or that it's not an option.

I started to refer to him as my 'fuck buddy' or my 'friend with benefits' which seemed to upset him quite a bit. Cue long face and 'is that all I mean to you?' questions. Sometimes I just laugh or other times I say, 'well that's all we are, isn't it?' I genuinely think it has made him reassess how he sees the relationship. He really doesn't like the feeling of being something less than he saw himself/us. Now his vocabulary has totally changed as he has started to say things like 'if we got married then.....' so I do think he has altered his stance somewhat. I'm still not 100% sure I want to get married, so I haven't tested the theory yet. You could try the same approach, see if it helps. If he questions it, you could say, 'well that's how you make me feel' and see if he gets it.

How would he/you feel about a pre-nup?
All the benefits of marriage with the finances intact.
That's what I would do if my partner had lesser assets and I had DC.
(It's also what my DM did before she remarried)

Pre nups are not legally binding in the UK, I dont think.

We have some friends who were in almost precisely this situation. He said he would never marry again. It seemed as if he felt it would be some kind of betrayal to his dead wife. His partner accepted his but it seemed a shame and her parents were disappointed with him.

He was also very wealthy but I genuinely don't think he was being mean.

Anyway, after they'd been living together just as if they were married for about twenty years,she became unwell and suddenly he had a total turn around and they got married. I think he suddenly really got it that marriage provided legal security for both partners.

If you can be happy staying unmarried I'd say try to be happy as you are. He may change his mind later on and I'm almost sure he's not setting out to exclude you or leave you worse off. Bereavement is a strange one and affects people oddly.

I wouldn't marry again I'd want to protect my assets for my kid

I agree with posters who have said that if it isn't important to him then he may as well do it. The fact is it IS important and that is why he doesn't want to. It's good that you are independent financially but it does leave you with few rights. When my MILs long term partner died suddenly his children (late teens, at university) moved swiftly to remove her from their home. He died on the Thursday. Children arrived Friday and told her she had to be gone by the Saturday. I had to intervene and request an additional day so that we could scrabble about and get her moved. These were children she believed herself to be close to. The poor woman was utterly traumatised. But there was a will that left them the house and they were entitled to do it (the house was marketed straight away btw, they didn't want her out so they could move back in). I think you do have to look at all the worst case scenarios and plan for them. What would happen if he was inacapacitated? And you have no formal standing at all? I can't believe that he hasn't considered what would happen to his children in this scenario. I'm a single parent and know EXACTLY what will happen to mine. I rather suspect he does too but that his plans are not ones you'd agree with. I think you need to talk all these scenarios through. And decide whether you have a future depending on what he says. Good luck x

I think inkydinky talks a lot of sense. You may not need his money, but if the children move against you when he dies, say in 20 years' time, the emotional pain and trauma will still be huge - even if you do have a house to go to. If you love the house, you would be most upset to be kicked out of it, however much money you had.

Marriage is about security as well as love. It is odd that it is often seen only as security for the woman. Why is it not an issue for him also? What does he risk by not marrying you? These 'worst case scenarios' are significant for him too.

He could totally make his will water-tight, whilst making provision for you to live in your shared home for the rest of your life. I agree there is anxiety about what happens if he died before you and you were married. Maybe he thinks that his children could be done out of an inheritance after he goes. This happened to my cousins and their mother's widower. My aunt and he got 'mirror' wills drawn up together, so that the right proportions of their joint assets were shared between their respective children. When she died, he inherited her assets; he made a unilateral decision what cash to give her two children as an inheritance, changed his will and has just bought a big property with his daughter which she will no doubt wholly inherit when he dies. My cousins have no claim, despite their mother's wishes for them to have a fair share of her assets.

Marriage obviously does mean an awful lot to him. Otherwise he would not be so strongly against it. He must think it is extremely significant. It sounds as if he is being disingenuous, at the very least, saying that it ' doesn't mean anything'.

I can understand why this niggles you, because his reasoning does not add up.

Sadly, in the same situation I would feel that he is holding out for something better. You haven't really meshed your lives in any meaningful way - and that to me means you are both making sure you can exit with minimum aggro.

Just because someone previously had a happy marriage, it doesn't mean that marriage is important to them.

My widower fiancé asked his late wife to move in with him. She refused unless they got married. He was happy to marry her because she wanted it, but he wasn't bothered for himself.

They had a long and very happy marriage.

As it happens, he's not anti-marriage and we're engaged. But knowing that the marriage was driven by his wife last time, I can easily see that being married, even happily, doesn't make you a de facto believer in marriage.

I don't understand why people keep saying the OP's reasons are good. They seem to boil down to "I want to marry because I want to marry". I'd think they were good if they were about financial protection - if OP were in a worsened position through the relationship.

Marriage won't put a magic force field around a relationship. I think the comments about OP being used for childcare and him having his bread buttered both sides are way off the mark! (as does she)

I think you are in a slightly vulnerable position. Do you see it that way?

What Matilda said upthread about her friend's parents being disappointed in her partner does strike a chord. I have a daughter and I wouldn't want your situation for her. I think that is my acid test of situations - would I be happy if this was my child's life?
He isn't really being fair to you, in that he isn't able to offer you a fully committed relationship at this point in time. I'm not saying he is a bad person, because he doesn't sound like that, but still, the emotional risk is big for you and less for him.
So you do need to nail down what his plans are for the dc in a worse case scenario - a man who has lost his wife has to have thought about this and where you fit into that. Agree about concrete arrangrments for the house - if you love it then maybe there should be something legal drawn up whereby you get to buy it if something happens to him, certainly you should have something in place so you cannot just be turfed out. 3 years isn't very long and in his position, with dc, I can see why he wouldn't be ready to marry again at this point. But it is a big deal to you so that should be something he acknowledges - he has to seriously think about this from your pov and whether he can see himself wanting to marry you in the future. He owes you honesty about that because you dont want to be in a situation where he says maybe, with no intention.
I do think though, if you were my dd, I would be telling you that he is less committed to you than to his wife and you deserve more.

I agree with you Elissandra Interesting we are two of the commentators who actually have DPs who are widowers. I

I was married. Did the big wedding, church, party, promises never to leave. H left for an OW 2 years ago. Am now with a very nice also divorced man. I don't want to get married again. I made my promises, so did he, they didn't matter. Why do that again?
I appreciate that death is different to divorce, but I have some sympathy for the OP's partner's position.

That said, I also agree with all the posters who say that BOTH of the OP and her partner should ensure that, if the worst happens, they are protected legally.

Hi everyone. Thanks again. I have to disagree with a few posters but I can accept that the opinions are based on the information I've given you.
I don't think he's holding out for anything better. I also don't believe that we haven't meshed in any meaningful way.
I don't feel vulnerable in any way. I am happy to have no claim on anything that belongs to him. Likewise he has no claim to anything of mine.
That is how I want it. I lost everything after my first marriage and will never put myself in that position again.
I see no point in drawing up wills to exclude/include me in things I don't want.
The children are all of an age where if anything happened they can decide whether they want to see me.
I definitely take on board the point that I seem to want to get married just 'because'. You're right. I'm being honest in saying I want to be as equal in a relationship as his late wife.
However my DP doesn't measure devotion and love with marriage.

I am happy to have no claim on anything that belongs to him. Likewise he has no claim to anything of mine.
Then marriage isn't what you want. Sounds like the arrangement you have now is what works for you.

My uncle was with his new partner 15 years, she was lively and we all accepted her. She was incredibly wealthy too, they never married as both divorced and didn't see the point, but she lived in her house.

My uncle sadly got cancer and died after 15 months, she was a full time carer for him. A few days after he died, his son came and changed the locks to the property as he said it was his now and turfed her out.

Everyone in the family tried to change his mind but he wouldn't listen. She was very traumatised.

She lived in his house, sorry

Christmas. I'm sorry about that. It is of course food for thought I know. I'm just trying to work out. If this is just a difference of opinion that doesn't really affect our day to day life or is it going to be something that will eat away.

You're going to end this relationship with a wonderful generous man over a piece of paper? Don't be silly! You are financially secure so no need to do it for those reasons.
I'm with your DP, don't see the point of marriage. I'm sure he loves you very much, as I do my dp

I wouldn't marry again I'd want to protect my assets for my kid

If my husband died, then I'd feel the same.

Two distinctions from my perception of usual second marriage setups:

1. OP is raising/has raised the children as her own.
2. OP has no biological children to dilute his children's wealth, it's just a chain that the money would pass through.

I get the sense (to your credit) that a big part of your self-image is your financial independence, but objectively your strongest argument in favour of marriage is the fact that you're pretty vulnerable.

Anyway, good luck.

Oly5. That has made me laugh. No I won't be ending it. I just need to work out if it's a deal breaker for me or if my reasons (he married his late wife therefore he should marry me) are childish.
I honestly have tied myself in knots over whether he loves me as much as his late wife. The answer is I'll never know as I'll never ask.
I've read on here many times. When he shows you who he is believe him.
He is an honest, hard working man who has devoted himself to raising his children. He found me and in that found love and happiness again. This issue has now surfaced and I'm sure it won't be sorted overnight.

Thisisallnewtome, you have such similar feelings to me. I did think for the first few years that he might be "holding out for something better" but I know that is definitely the case. So do all his family.
As we grow older together, I do feel a bit uncomfortable being referred to by others (not family, they use the term partner) as "girlfriend". I am not his girlfriend, we are not dating, we have lived together for 12 years, we are 60+. I must confess that if I meet new people I just refer to him as my husband, he doesn't bat an eyelid or comment later on it at all.
So secretly, or not so secretly now I have said it in several posts, I would like to be married to him.
One of the reasons is that I never have had the "happily married" long relationship (very abusive marriage when I was young and a rebound long relationship) and would love to now as that is exactly what we are, happily together long term growing old together. Just without the legal bit, which obviously is still at the back of my mind.
Bit rambling sorry.

I honestly have tied myself in knots over whether he loves me as much as his late wife.

I'm sure someone wiser than me has something better to say, but each person you love is surely different and incomparable.

Are you able to have open discussions with him about this?

By the way, no way will I ever be leaving my lovely man for the bit of paper, but as I said before might not have felt the same younger.
I agree with the poster who said it is different being with a widowed partner than divorced. The marriage was not over by choice, sadly by bereavement and in mine, and others I know in similar situations, there is a certain aspect of idolising going on.

Museum. It really isn't a big part of my self image at all. It's just so many posters we're talking about protecting assets and having a right on things. I just wanted to clarify that that aspect is not in the equation. I picked up myself I was banging on about my position. I'm no Alan Sugar by a long shot just doing ok