He says he doesn't want to get married.

[thisisallnewtome8]

We have been together 3 years. Over the weekend I mentioned that I would like us to get married at some point. We have both been married before. Only DP said he doesn't want to get married again. He doesn't see the point of it. It has no bearing on how he feels about me.
I feel crushed to be honest. How can he marry one person. Decide not to marry me and for me not to feel second best?
Is marriage really not important?
The reasons behind wanting to get married.

1. I love him
2. I want to be his wife.
3. I want to feel part of his family and not an outsider.

His reasons for not getting married

1. He doesn't see the point
2. It doesn't mean anything

Fair enough, re adoption.
You have to decide if you can live with things as they are then.

I'm sure he's not over his wife's death I doubt he ever will be. I have found peace with that aspect. He has however found a way to move on and find love with someone else.
He has given me a chance to be part of raising a family. I have given him a chance to be part of a team again. Laughing, enjoying life and someone to take the pressure off him now and again.
Someone to feel passion with.
He loves me. Of that I have no doubt. I love him.
My idea of love culminates with marriage. His does not.
Can we overcome it?

Him being a widower makes it worse IMO. It's not a case of his marriage not working out, so I can understand how it makes you feel feel.

You need to decide on your own if it's a deal breaker. You also can't have children, so if you anything happened to him, how much legal rights would you have for the children to stay with you as a partner /girlfriend?

If you split up, you'd then be looking for a man who didn't want children.

Could you possibly tell him you'd have a prenup to protect him and his kids financially? Or would that not make a difference?

It only matters if you think you can.

Marriage: He doesn't see the point, it doesn't mean anything
His home: There is no emotional attachment to this house.

There's a lot of something going on. ?Repression?

"I want to be the mother figure but very much do not want them to think that I'm replacing their mother (complicated)".

I do not think you would ever want to replace their mother and I think you have never acted like that. I do wonder how they view you; perhaps as simply as being dad's best friend?.

Do you both talk about his late wife at all?.

Can the children even remember their mother? It sounds like you're doing all the wife/mother stuff without any public recognition. I wouldn't be happy with that.

I definitely think I'm more than their dads friend but I'm not sure they know what a mothers role is. They have very little memory. They know I love them. They look to me for guidance, comfort, things their dad won't let them have
We do talk about his late wife. Not as much as he used to. But far more honest than at first. I think it was a bit rose tinted originally.
Theirs was a great love. As someone posted on a previous thread. If he loved someone before he's capable of loving someone again. He's just not capable of marrying again.

In the end this was (part of) a deal breaker for me, even though I was the higher earner. I wanted to marry my ExP .. he didn't. That was not the deal breaker, the deal breaker was his complete refusal to discuss his feelings / my wishes ...

If you can't talk about this and come to a compromise you are both happy with , if he is prepared to be honest about his reasons, then you may get past this,

In the end, after 5.5 years I walked ...

Thanks phoebe. When you say recognition can you elaborate. Do you mean recognition of being a wife? Or in general?
He is unfailing in telling people how I have changed all of their lives and it's better with me in it.
I don't mean free child care. I think I've talked enough on that point.

Was he with the wife since school or something?

Cos if she died in her thirties (poor woman) and had been married long enough to have a couple of kids, then they married at quite an average age. She wasn't dragging him up the altar.

The brutal fact is this: if you guys last the distance, then at 80, you will have been with him several decades longer than he was with her. Yet she will always be his wife.

I would find it all very difficult.

That said, you can't make someone marry you. Or want to.

Would you consider leaving him and finding someone else in time who does believe in marriage?

My point is that if you can't consider leaving him, then you just have to accept his decision.

Thanks Elspeth. Apologies if I made it sound as if she dragged him up the altar. I know him well enough to know that he doesn't do anything he doesn't want so of course he wanted to marry her. I do think it was because they both wanted children. We are not having children. We have no joint assets so he doesn't see the reasoning behind my desire to marry.

The way it's currently set up, which seems deliberate IMO, he could require you to leave the home tomorrow and might also seek to stop you having access to the DC.

You are not his next of kin should he be very ill or have an accident.

Even both working FT living as a couple is much, much easier day to day for parenting etc. Were he a single parent and responsible for all school runs etc he might well find it hard to work FT. Even with a live in nanny, and those are costlier than a partner.

But you have step children. Would you want to continue to see them were you to split up? Have you looked into the legal position on that?

Its true 8 years isn't a very long time to get over the death of a spouse, and ,while you may be fulfilling a very large role in the whole families lives, 3 years isn't actually a really long time either in the grand scheme of things.
The question of guardianship is a good one. For me, I would marry when I felt that when if I died, DP would definitely be the one I would want as legal guardian.
If you ARE the person who would be legal guardian in the event of your DP's death, then yes, you absolutely should be married, and he should see that.
Maybe he just isn't ready yet.

I agree OP - I'm sure my DP has never got over his wife's death, nor will he ever but he has found love again with me with neither of us desiring marriage.

There is a fundamental disharmony between the two of you though, and the only way to find out if your relationship is a long term one (with or without marriage) is to have a heart to heart talk together. Wishing you luck and hope you get your heart's desire.

"My idea of love culminates with marriage. His does not."

This is the crux of the matter really. And for so many others it seems. Love is so much more than "I do". Marriage is no more than a "for now, we are legally obliged to each other".

(DP and I are married and are very much more in love now than we were on the day we married. We married as it made an immigration issue easier rather than the culmination of falling in love).

I am a lot older than you. . my DH also said he never wanted to get married and we didnt for 13 years.. .we had our own houses , but as our ( separate,) children got older he changed and we did marry.. it wasnt an issue I never pushed him..

But i had said I would never buy a house or live f/t with someone i wasnt married to and I stuck to it .( I was well and truly **ed after my 1st marriage broke up in that respect and was not going to let mine and my sons roof be jeopardised again ) .

But the thinghere for you OP, is if he dies in 20 odd years (or longer hopefully) his kids can have you out of what has been your home , just like that . no comeback..

We still have two houses (although we live together ) but they are now in the same pot. Our wills make provision for the kids but only after we are both dead.. (yes the survivor can change this but i wouldnt and i trust him not to either).

But the fact is by being married.. I can not be forced out of the home I have lived in so long when I am an old woman, should Dh go first.. It is that which is so important..

If he doesnt see that , then he doesnt have your 'Joint Enterprise' at heart..(let alone have a care for your well being, as th eperson he is supposed to love) The kids wont miss out , they will just have to wait to inherit , just as they would have done if his wife was stil alive ..

I think this has really boiled down to do I want marriage more than I want to be with him? The answer truthfully is no.
I never thought I would want to get married again. But I do.
Will this break us? Not at present.
I'm glad we did talk about it. There was no fobbing me off with 'maybe in the future'.
Legally. I have all my next of kin and pensions and investments sorted.
If he wants me to be next of kin/ guardian then the ball is in his court to sort out.
Thanks everyone for replying. It really felt good to talk about it to unknown people who don't reply 'but he loves you'.
I appreciate it.

btw my now DH is the one who after all the years of telling me it was 'just a piece of paper' and he was 'not the marrying kind' now tells me and everyone else how he feels being married . He is a great advocate for how marriage HAS made a difference to him and his life.. (in a good way!!)

You do not need to be married to obtain PR for a partner or for the, to obtain PR as part of being a guardian in a will.

Guardianship of the Dc is a massive one IMO. Important to discuss, just in case.

So is what could happen in 20 years if you have to leave the house which has been your home - other rented property or not - because you will have no right to stay (esp if as teens the DCS have decidethey dont like you after all.. as you are not their mother.. ),

Also anything you buy for that house , will also not be yours ..unless their is some sort of legal agreement between you and your DP..

I think neither of you are BU re your views on marriage.

You do need to think about what happens if he dies or becomes ill.

Who is his next of kin? Who has guardianship of the children? Where would the children want to go?

Are you ever in sole charge of the children? What would happen if you had to take one of them to A&E and he wasn't around? Do you have the ability to consent to medical procedures on their behalf?

Does he have a will? Are you an executor?

Is his wealth based on paid employment? What if he lost his job?

Basically, just think of every worst case scenario and work out how it would fit in!

I do sympathise about the lack of romance, it must be hurtful, even if he doesn't mean it to be.