Women who "have it all"

[GetAGlance]

I've always been a bit "off centre". Led an unconventional, sometimes interesting life, you could say. But also quite a difficult one. Men have been occasionally interesting but zero support. The same with family.

Anyway, I am now living in a slightly different mileau (more middle class, suburban), and I am noticing for the first time, looking round, quite "sorted" women. By this I mean women who have married well to good men they love who are emotionally caring and financially responsible. Imagine! I am guessing they just they seemed to know what they wanted from an early age - marriage, children, etc. And then went about it the right way (rather than sadness, difficulty and drama). Sometimes it feels a bit strange being in their company, almost as if I am a black sheep (single mother etc), or at least feeling very different.

Anyway, these are new, sometimes uncomfortable, feelings to me, and I am wondering what to make of them. I feel hesitant to post this, but anyone comprendez?

I made bad choices in my late teens and married a twat. I simply didn't know what a healthy relationship was supppsed to be like and he was the stereotype alpha male.

Even when we split most of my friends were horrified because we were the 'rent a laugh' couple for any occasion.

I'm now with someone that is kind, gentle, gorgeous. (Funnily enough he had a hideous marriage to an EA women who had affairs and called him boring)

I simply didn't know how to make the choice I've now made in my early 20s. I just didn't know. I think as people are describing on this thread, you are either with good self esteem and boundaries in your 20s or you are not. And that is the part that is down to luck.

What an unpleasant post Anothermoomin.

I agree with those posters who say there is a big element of luck.

However, while I do not in anyway agree with those who sound smug or oddly defensive about their happy lives, I am learning a lot just now about the choices I made and it is a useful process. I can see mistakes I made.

OP, work out what you want from life based on your own feelings though. I've lived the Stepfords wives life. I have some lovely friends still (happily) living it. While I'm lonely at times, and wish life wasn't so shit as it ended up in my marriage, I have no desire for, or envy of, that "perfect conventional" life now.

I think there are many ways to be happy and that's not for me. I think it's never too late to go after what you want from life. Don't look at the image projected by others to work out what you want.

Some of us "sorted" women may have been saved a lot of trouble by never having that many chances until we were mature enough to choose wisely. Of course I like to think that I had boundaries and self-esteem and all those things when I was 17. But frankly, it wouldn't have made a lot of difference if I hadn't because the boys weren't exactly queuing up...

I wonder if that is where moomin's post was coming from, not so much smug as still smarting from a sense of rejection and the memory of being sneered at by the popular girls.

Op, when you are looking at 'sorted women' remember you are looking at snapshot in time.
10 years ago they could have been physically/emotionally/sexually abused their husbands or family. In 10 years from mow they could be living in a grotty 3 room bedsit with 4 kids.

I dont know what choices you made, or if you consciously made any choices but you seem, or I am being very dim (likey) to be very sad and blaming yourself for them?

Also, even if the women you see are all with financially responsible, emotionally caring men now, it doesn't mean they had an easy road. It doesn't mean they necessarily had perfect upbringings with loving parents and never made any bad decisions or had any bad relationships.

In recent years I've been surprised that people have told me they think I am 'sorted' and how do I do it... This has happened at work, usually in a 'downtime' moment over a coffee on a training day or similar. All I do is look at them in astonishment. Yes, I'm happily married with two kids, but of course my life is not perfect! I think it's because I'm very, very professional at work, no one has ever heard me swear, seen me lose my temper or cry, I'm always in the same calm mood (on the outside) and I rarely talk about my private life at all.

All that glitters isnt gold

That's what I was told when I said what you said OP

I was lucky. I married a man who I love deeply and who treats me with respect and love. He does my head in sometimes but he is a lovely, kind and caring man. He doesn't drink, smoke, disappear down the pub because he isn't into that but he is a self proclaimed "nerd" (playing world of Warcraft as we speak). I am lucky to have him. That said - I would rather be on my own than with the wrong man- one that didn't treat me as an equal partner.

I know very, very few women who "have it all". Lots start out on a very organised path but it's hard to maintain a great career, a great marriage, bring up successful children, have close sustained friendships, an intellectual/cultural life, responsibilities for parents, a comfortable home and time to plan forward. Mostly something falls by the wayside along the way. That's OK!

Needsahalo
"What an awful thing to say about your own child. 'Cool' guys can't make decent husbands? Surely if your boys were brought up by the same parents their values should be very similar?"

In a few years time he may make a lovely husband. From what I can see now he is being 'cool'. Any girl who gets involved needs to have her eyes open. No malice, no meanness but he is not in it for the long haul. Nothing wrong with that.

As pp said I can remember with a considerable degree of irritation being told how 'bad boys' were more fun. In all honesty is there a woman on here who has not heard someone say they love 'bad boys'? While I was building a life with my DP friends were having fun with their ' bad boys', the cool kids, the lads who smoked and drank too much. I was indeed laughed at but I stuck by my choice and now I am supposed tyo say it was lucky??

Bad boys. I didn't want that, didn't choose that and was laughed at. OK. So now I am supposed to say "oh dear that is very sad, you chose a bad boy".

As a child I had a very clear image in my head of the kind of future husband I wanted!
My parents were young when they had me, my mum only 17. By default (inheritance) I grew up in a very nice middle class area, attended a very good smaller than average primary school. My classmates dad's, had mostly professional jobs, or at least full time jobs, my dad was in a band! He'd collect me from school, in ripped skinny jeans, two full sleeve tattoos, nose pierced and his hair in some crazy style.
My homelife was unconventional, our house was mis matched and unorganised. I didn't spend my weekends doing ballet and gymnastics like my friends.
I loved my parents and was very much loved, but I guess I always felt a bit jealous of my peers perfect families.

I'd imagine growing up and having a family, with a husband who wore a suit and drove a sensible car in some shade of grey. We'd have a lovely beige house and go on holiday abroad and actually stay in a hotel!

Then I grew up!
And realised I'm more my mothers daughter than I thought!

My parents taught me to love and respect myself and accept no less than that from anyone else. That I think is the most important thing!

Incidentally, of my 3 closets primary friends, not one of their parents are still together! And although shiny and perfect looking to the outside, knowing them I learnt that it most certainly wasn't the case on the inside!

"Bad boys. I didn't want that, didn't choose that and was laughed at. OK. So now I am supposed to say "oh dear that is very sad, you chose a bad boy"."

Yes, why ever not?

There are all sorts of reasons why people make bad choices:

poor self-esteem

poor role models

a lack of good choices (can't actually force those nice nerds to marry you if they don't happen to want it)

immaturity

etc

Doesn't mean that 10 or 20 years later they don't deserve any sympathy.

Not to mention that 10 or 20 years later, one of those nerdy safe-looking boys may equally well have turned into an unfaithful or abusive husband: it happens, you know. And at the same time, somebody else's handsome glamorous boyfriend may have matured into a wonderful husband and father.

What about those of us who fell into abusive relationships due to our upbringing? Or just because we believed the promises we were given, and also blamed ourselves? That's nothing to do with just thoughtlessly picking the cool guy, not all abusive men are 'cool' they come in all shapes and sizes. I thought my ex p was suitable husband material until he showed his true colours and I uncovered the true nature of his behaviour.

corythatwas yes when I am being reasonable you are entirely correct. I should be sympathetic to the people who sneered at my DP. The women who laughed and told me I could do better. You are correct I don't know why they made the choices they did. However, they didn't have to laugh at my choice.

When I am being better behaved and in real life I would be much more sympathetic. But honestly, sometimes I didn't luck out, I made a choice.

Hmm. My DH is kind, moral, decent, hard working, successful, loyal possibly a teeny bit boring. Met late 20s, got engaged, married, had dc, public school. Want for nothing.

My parents were both married three times, hated each other, played me off against each other. I had no loving family home to go back to if I went tits up. Therefore I couldn't go tits up.

I was driven through my 20s, worked like stink, had 80% equity in a £180k house when I was 28 (in 1988). I wouldn't have married if it hadn't been for love; I'd never have allowed myself to fall for a feckless cad.

I was very lucky but much of it was planned. I had pnd after ds1. I never realised until then I'd probably never been properly loved by my mother. I was anorexic from 19-26.

My life looks utterly perfect, most people now don't know about ds2 dying or dd's hidden illness.

Anyway, I am now living in a slightly different mileau (more middle class, suburban), and I am noticing for the first time, looking round, quite "sorted" women. By this I mean women who have married well to good men they love who are emotionally caring and financially responsible. Imagine! I am guessing they just they seemed to know

An awful lot of guessing and appearance here ... I might have been one of these women at one time. Except my now ex husband was abusive, and I was too ashamed and scared to let on, and projected this happy image. I'm now a single mother, and from experience I can tell you appearances are very deceptive. How do you know their husband are 'emotionally caring'? Do you not think it's you projecting here? I don't really believe everyone has it all. As PP what you see is a snapshot in time as well. It doesn't mean the whole of their lives is sorted either. If I ever manage to put my life back on track I will carry that bit of brokenness I have from my abusive marriage for a long time.

As for the reason for poor choices. Mine wasn't really anything to do with 'bad boys' attraction. My ex wasn't a boy and didn't seem 'bad'. He still was (is) abusive. Self-esteem and little idea about healthy relationships had a lot more to do with it.

Anothermoomin Sun 05-Feb-17 21:27:57
"corythatwas yes when I am being reasonable you are entirely correct. I should be sympathetic to the people who sneered at my DP."

But you are not just being unsympathetic towards those individuals who sneered at you all those years ago. Do you even know that a single one of those girls are on this thread now? Or do you think that somehow everybody in the whole world who made similar life choices are somehow responsible for the bullying you experienced all those years ago? Do you know that the posters on this thread who made bad choices have ever bullied anyone in their life?

And what about the ones who married men who were dull as dishwater and still ended up abused or cheated on? Were they somehow wiser? More deserving of sympathy.

I agree with those that say it is not just luck. It is careful thought and making a conscious decision to choose a man that they think will be a good man/father/husband in 20 plus years

I had that. Met him at uni. 7 years together. Very happy. Dumped him for the High-drama, great sex, big earner. Married him.

Now in process of divorcing him. That high drama and great sex turned in to arguments and generally shite.

Wish I had been sensible and stuck with first uni love.

It's down to a lot of luck.

I chose someone I thought loved the very bones of me, I fell for him. He was clever, hardworking and I thought it was forever. Then things changed, I didn't realise (boiling frog) and it turned out he was a rapist and a cheat. He went on to emotionally abuse others too although I don't know if he raped anyone else.

Moving on to my DH, I couldn't trust my judgement, did so many things MN would consider red flag LTB behaviour. It took a while to feel secure. Plus we went from DH being on £55 apprenticeship to us now being financially secure. That's been through some good choices and a lot of luck too.

If it wasn't down to a good dollop of luck then we have friends far more talented, better people and hardworking who would be rich and blissfully happy...but they aren't.

I'm sorry but I think the OP was worried that there was a kind of smugness in those women who she defines as having 'it all' - and I think some of the responses on here show that smugness does exactly exist.

To say 'it's not an accident or good luck other than the fact that I had enough confidence and self esteem to not settle for a waste of time' or 'He has gone from boring to hero according to other women. They made their choices, I made mine' is, without doubt, making a clear statement that these women feel they have been more sensible and made better choices than others who don't have whatever the ideal husband is here, and there is a sense of self-satisfaction that they have that and others don't, particularly because when everyone was young, one repeats a few times that other women thought her choice of husband was boring (but ha now they're regretting their stupidity).

TBH, a lot of people go with someone with whom they have chemistry. That's the difference between a friend and a husband. You want to fuck the latter. And it doesn't at all follow that the one who would make the best husband is the one you want to fuck. But actually the one who would make the best husband wouldn't be your best husband if you didn't want to fuck him.

I don't mean to be crude - seem to have repeating one word a few times there - but joking apart, that physical, sexual chemistry is surely what causes the problems for a lot of us? The sweet guy who is our friend and adores us - we love but really don't want to get close to. The guy with the eyes and who makes us feel like we can't think straight - he's actually the one our body wants us to have kids with.

Our biological drive to reproduce isn't that bothered by who will do the washing up and won't be a bastard.

Is there any point that women are responsible for their own decisions?

I know several people who have married what seemed eminently safe choices: steady, studious quiet boys whose background they knew- and who have found themselves in very unpleasant situations due to their husbands growing into something else. They made a choice that seemed wise at the time.

I otoh married a man I had met as a holiday romance in a foreign country and then had a long-distance relationship with. He was in a job I found very romantic but which did not at that time involve a settled life-style, any job security or an income large enough to live on. He has been everything I ever dreamt of in terms of supportiveness, steadiness, reliability, loving behaviour. But I didn't know that. I didn't know a single person who knew him, I couldn't check up on him, I had to just trust blindly.

Now which of us gets to sneer at whom?

And jobana makes a good point about physical attraction. Who would actually be mean enough to marry somebody they didn't fancy- and let him believe they fancied him- just because he ticked the boxes for a steady husband? How could that be right? Naturally it doesn't follow you should marry somebody you do fancy but know to be a twat. But that might mean you end up not finding anyone to marry.

Some advice op, I've watched my friends grow with their relationships. The ones I respect and admire are those that are true, honest yet still innocent, naive and loving. Everyday is a new day (not a challenge, to be conquered), something to be savoured and enjoyed (even the shit). The ones that 'have it all' really don't but they make it seem like that. Easy and kind, copy it when you see it, one hour, one day, one week, one month.... keep trying. That's what 'they' do - rebalance. I hope you find 'it' - it's there for us all. A little bit less shit, in the next hour.

Anothermoomin Sun 05-Feb-17 21:47:44
"Is there any point that women are responsible for their own decisions?"

Yes. They are responsible for their own decisions not to abuse their spouse, not to cheat on him, not to indulge in criminal behaviour and not to ruin the family through reckless spending. They are not, however, responsible for any decision on their husband's part to do any of those things.