Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Would you ever date someone who has no contact with his child?

267 replies

Baldricksslug · 02/02/2017 12:14

I have NCed for this and it is quite outing so I will be vague, but I will try and answer questions as best I can.

The relationship between him and his ex broke down very early in the pregnancy (before the first scan) as he lost his job and she asked him to leave. He was not allowed to the scans and has not seen the child since he was a baby (now almost 3). A mediation appointment was set up which she did not attend. She did not put him on the birth certificate, which I understand further complicates things. She then moved but did not tell him where to. He paid maintenance and then stopped it so she would have to pursue him through CSA (or whatever they are called now) and he could insist on a DNA test and get put on the birth certificate. She has never done this because she knows what would happen and she does not want him to have parental rights. He has sort legal advice but cannot afford the thousands in legal fees it will take to get a court ordered DNA test, get on the birth certificate and then sort out contact, and he would probably have to know where they are first. He is saving to do this, but feels it is a long way off and hopes the mother has a change of heart or that the child expresses a wish to see him. I don't know, but if I were a child and my father were not around I would feel extremely hurt and perhaps not want to see him.

They do not have contact as she will not let him have her phone number. She will sometimes unblock him on social media to berate him for not paying maintenance, and then block him again. I was initially very dubious about everything to be honest, but the subject has come up around his family members, not discussed in depth or anything and I didn't ask any questions about it, but I have heard bits and pieces that seem to verify his version of events.

It is a very new relationship, but I feel everyone has "baggage", for want of a better word (I know I do!) and I don't really feel like I want to run for the hills just yet (which I feel some posters may tell me to do as it's a lot to take in in a new relationship) as it is otherwise going extremely well, and if people were to write people off in the beginning for having struggles, well, I don't think anyone would be dating me!

I think the reason I am posting is because I feel like if it were my child I would be fighting tooth and nail, even if it meant borrowing, getting into debt, hiring a PI to find them, etc., etc. Is this ever not the case? Why wouldn't it be the case?

OP posts:
Adora10 · 02/02/2017 14:40

To deny them a relationship with a parent or grandparent is abusive.

Surely that depends on the context, the situation and the person and the safety of the child, there are many, many children like mine who have been raised soley by the mother and extended family; my adult child is the most balanced person I have ever known and I am not angry or upset about her biological father (not calling him father as he's not), in fact I think she did better without his influence, he was from a broken family himself and did FA to keep in contact.

What is his own family like OP, that can be telling.

Brankolium · 02/02/2017 14:41

That feeling of uncertainty you have - what would change it into certainty (in either direction)?

Because if it takes actually going to court to prove to you that he's not apathetic, well that could take ages. And presumably you'd have hit 'pause' on the relationship (in an emotional sense) in the meantime? Which suggests that it's dead in the water, even if he is telling the full truth, because a niggling doubt is a relationship killer...

Original poster
Baldricksslug · 02/02/2017 14:44

They seem very nice, Adora. Close and supportive. Not sure if relevant in any way, but he was raised by a loving step father with very little involvement from his biological dad, so he does know how hurtful that is.

OP posts:
Oddsockspissmeoff · 02/02/2017 14:45

Of course it depends on the context. Nobody's going to encourage a child to spend time with an abusive person.

karmassidekick · 02/02/2017 14:47

It doesn't take ages to go to court. You can submit an order on any day of the week, contact order and order for name on certificate is about £400. The process there after might very well take ages and cost more but there's nothing stopping him taking the first step and getting the ball.rolling.

Original poster
Baldricksslug · 02/02/2017 14:47

Brank that is a good question. I think I would just like to know that he'd really tried his darnedest, which would perhaps not immediately mean court.

OP posts:
gillybeanz · 02/02/2017 14:48

No, I couldn't as there is no reason not to be a parent to your child if you want to.
There are courts to sort all this out, and most decent people couldn't stand not having contact with their child, you'd fight to the bitter end.

Kronutpearl · 02/02/2017 14:49

Nobody's going to encourage a child to spend time with an abusive person.

Um yes sadly they do.

Look up women's aid "child first" campaign.

Mummyoflittledragon · 02/02/2017 14:49

I know someone, who had a child with his wife. They divorced and they had 50/50 contact and the parents continued an amicable relationship. He then met another woman and had a child with her. One day she upped and left and returned to her parents, who have quite a hold on her. He tried very hard to have contact with the child. He's been blocked every step of the way by the court. Hes now given up. He's in France btw. I'm only giving you the back story of first child to show that there are some women, who will take their children away. This man is in no way abusive. So yes, it is possible he's telling the truth. If you do go further with him, please be careful and go with your gut.

karmassidekick · 02/02/2017 14:50

He hasn't tried his hardest. He's not submitted to court for £400. He isn't paying anything towards the upkeep of his child.
3 years? He's done nothing.

Userone1 · 02/02/2017 14:51

I'm not getting the stopping paying maintenance scenario. He paid, then stopped so he could get DNA. Why was he paying in the first place if he thought wasn't his?

I'm tired, maybe I missed that part!

Nonibaloni · 02/02/2017 14:51

I haven't read the whole thread but I wanted to say something.

I have a relation that regularly stayed in contact with his child after a divorce. Then the child's mother had a series of miscarriages, obviously she was grieving and in that time he allowed her to decide when he saw his child. She wanted her child close.

Then she fell into a depression- no blame, who can imagine how you would feel. But part of this was retreating into herself and acting out against anyone who seemed happy. My relation asked for counciling to repair the relationship so that he could see his child. It turned very dark and the councillor advised him to leave her alone until she made contact again for the sake of her mental health.

Obviously this is a very specific circumstance but it's not always abuse.

Trust your gut but seeing my relation tear up when his child is an obvious hole in his life is heartbreaking.

There's what is right and there's what's fair. Not always the same thing.

MissMrsMsXX · 02/02/2017 14:53

Trust your gut,

I think you're asking because it doens't feel right.

karmassidekick · 02/02/2017 14:54

User because the guy has done so little research into how to get access to his child he thinks that a dna test done by the csa will give him legal rights and his name on the certificate.
He's using the fact she's not going through the csa as some sort of proof the ex is stopping him seeing the child.

Offred · 02/02/2017 14:55

Nobody's going to encourage a child to spend time with an abusive person.

That is incredibly naive!!!

Original poster
Baldricksslug · 02/02/2017 15:00

karma no, that's not it. He thought that DNA proof would be necessary for getting parental rights not automatically award them. He's not using the non payment as proof of anything.

OP posts:
Original poster
Baldricksslug · 02/02/2017 15:02

User he doesn't think he is not his. He wants to prove that he is because he is not on the birth certificate. He doesn't seem to have any doubt about the parentage.

OP posts:
InTheMoodForLove · 02/02/2017 15:02

I think I would just like to know that he'd really tried his darnedest

He has not. Period.
Maybe he cannot, he is not able too, he is damaged, for whatever reason (abandoned adults often repeat their history, if you do not want to believe he is not responsible for scaring this mother off)

How long have you known this guy ?

PaterPower · 02/02/2017 15:03

It doesn't take ages to go to court. You can submit an order on any day of the week, contact order and order for name on certificate is about £400. The process there after might very well take ages and cost more but there's nothing stopping him taking the first step and getting the ball.rolling.

You need her address for the initial court paperwork (which he doesn't have). You then need to be able to prove the paperwork was served (although FC seems to settle for a proof of postage for that!).

Assuming he can find her address and gets the initial paperwork out I'm pretty sure that they won't grant him PR without hearing from her (or maybe they will - who TF knows with those jokers?) If she chooses not to attend that will inevitably hold things up there. They'd then insist on mediation. She would get several opportunities to not turn up to that before they waived it. They would then insist on attendance at. "communication class" - ditto on her not turning up.

Then you'd have an initial hearing to try and set up a contact order. If she doesn't attend they'll delay it. If she attends and claims prior abuse they'll pull in CAFCASS and social workers who have busy schedules, further delaying things for interviews etc. If they believe her (or more likely, just can't disprove it) they will restrict him to very small slots at a supervised visiting centre (which will cost him money and time whilst he waits for one with an open slot anywhere near where she lives). She can still just refuse to take the DC there and he'll have to apply to the court again for enforcement. Which they won't back up.

And so the merry go round will keep on turning, and turning and turning whilst the child gets older and older without contact with him.

karmassidekick · 02/02/2017 15:03

He needs to go to court for parental rights it's nothing to do with csa. The court will only order a dna if she denies paternity.

So why is he not paying to support his child? He could open a case with csa if he wanted to

Original poster
Baldricksslug · 02/02/2017 15:03

5 months.

OP posts:
Oddsockspissmeoff · 02/02/2017 15:05

No it's not. People are choosing to focus on that particular statement instead of the whole post. It's absolutely obvious that I meant children should see both parents and extended family unless they are abusive.

It's also obvious I meant parents are not going to encourage their child to spend time with an abusive person. It's not necessary to write an article about how the court encourages contact with such people.

BaronessEllaSaturday · 02/02/2017 15:05

He thought that DNA proof would be necessary for getting parental rights not automatically award them

but he has to pay for the DNA test through the CSA not sure about court if they order a test if the mother denies paternity

Userone1 · 02/02/2017 15:06

I didn't think CSA did DNA tests? I thought it was up to potential father to provide evidence he was not the father, if he didn't want to pay?

All a bit flawed anyhow. Let's assume she did go CSA, then he would have to say not the father in order to get DNA, which he is responsible for providing in the first place! Which ex could still refuse to do!

Seems like just trying to out of paying!

Kronutpearl · 02/02/2017 15:07

I meant parents are not going to encourage their child to spend time with an abusive person

They do.

You can be as dismissive as you want but it happens every day.