My marriage maybe over?

[Intricatelysimple]

My 'd'h and I have been together for 20 years, married for 12 with 3 dc. From the very start he was a controlling bully. Your stereotypical street angel house devil. I have tried many times to end our marriage but there's always been something holding me back, kids/finances/insert reason here.

Anyway from reading these boards I have managed to get some strength from the great collective wisdom of you fabulous ladies and have decided after the most recent episode that enough is truly enough. I have little real world support as I have no close friends - as is typical for when married to such a man. I get along fine with my family but we wouldn't be close enough to discuss our more personal problems.

After a quite minor incident last week I felt it was the straw that finally broke the camel's back so to speak. He's bewildered and is treating me as if i'm crazy. He went so far as to tell me "I need to get over my mid life crisis". And that was the kindest thing he said. However I know he realizes he's gone to far so now enter Disney Dad the greatest dad there ever has been! He cooks, he cleans, he does homework, he speaks in a lovely respectful, interested voice to the dc asking all kinds of lovely questions about how their day has been. He shops! Groceries! Wow this is truly amazing. This man has been in my house all this time and I didn't know it! I must be so foolish not to have noticed. Oh how we'll laugh about all of this in the future!

Of course not.

This is the act and I have to admit it's good. Probably the best performance yet. I should call the Academy Awards people and get them to put him on the list. The very tippety top of the list cos this is really good. But I'm not fooled. I can still see the seething hysteria in his eyes when I dared to go out with some work colleagues over Christmas and stayed out until the ungodly hour of 1am. After 5 hours of ignored texts and phonecalls he was waiting outside the restaurant we had gone to literally staking his own wife. That was pretty embarrassing. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

So thank you for reading. Writing this down has been cathartic. I'm seeing a solicitor next week and am starting the legal process. The real world process will most likely be much trickier but i'll get through.

Loftella This is all so wrong isn't it?

Some fab advice on here and agree that sometimes what is needed is the brutal truth that getting out is the only way but when you are stuck financially it's hard.
I feel like I am trudging through quick sand!
It's our anniversary today, he brought me an extravagant present and acted as if everything is normal 😔......when I questioned him about it he stormed off!
Why doesn't he take a notice of me? It's making life so difficult......dreading tonight and so tired of fighting! Seeing solicitor next Thursday.....feels like a lifetime away 😒
Pudding how's things?
Inner warrior I changed my settings! Thanks xxxx

Hey beachbaby. It's the old ignore you into submission routine. Exasperating isn't it. My h did the same at Christmas. He knew things were really bad but I wasn't going to let all hell break lose over the Christmas. In spite of this he goes off and buys me a ridiculously expensive gift that we couldn't afford. I just said thank you in front of the kids and returned it for a refund after Christmas. How the fuck he thought the mortgage would get paid is beyond me but it hasn't been mentioned since. In his eyes he's Mr Generous and I'm little Ms Ungrateful. It's like they're trying to set us up to fail.
Stay strong. Next Thursday will be here before you know it and at least you'll have a bit more clarity then.

It's not 'like' they are setting you up to fail.
They are setting you up to fail.
He knows you aren't speaking, can't afford it. He knows you will be pissed off/return it.
He can then act wounded/ get angry/ play the nice guy, while you are a bitch.
Text book, I'm afraid.

There is a famous quote in devil's advocate.
"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled is convincing the world he doesn't exist"

This applies to abusive men.

The greatest trick they ever pull, is making you doubt they are intentionally behaving like this.
That, and making you believe the nice guy is them and the abusive guy just rears his head every now and again. When in fact they are the abusive guy. They just have to act nice sometimes, otherwise you'll leave.

Intricately. In my own case, my XH started stalking me before he had gone. He found out my MN name and was reading all my posts, so I had to name change...he was actually following me round the boards, occasionally putting on a weird post of his own that he had signed up specially for... Of course I name-changed, but maybe just check he hasn't got access to this? Are you permanently logged in?

He has continued to be an arsehole after a similar length marriage. He has in many, but not all ways abandoned his lovely only child, so maybe prepare yourself that the good father (as I always felt he was) might change? I hope not in your case, but planning won't hurt.

On the plus side, I never regretted getting rid of his sorrry arse. I had much help from MN Relationships Board, and am only sorry that they probably don't recognise my new name, but if you or anyone reading remembers the story, this was the one where his justification for signing up to Online Dating was because DD and I didn't go owl-watching one night... Anyhoo, I am much happier without him. He pretty much immediately found himself a Sugar Mummy and announced his re-marriage before the divorce. I have gone on to find happiness in a new partner myself, but at the point of kicking him out, I realised being on my own forever, possibly with no sex, was better than how I was living. Good luck. We know you can do this. x

Dreading him coming home from work tonight, he's just text that he's going to bring home a special dinner for our anniversary and the thought makes me want to run and hide!
I feel so unequipped to deal with this, I read all the posts from the other ladies and you are all so articulate and explain yourselves so well. I feel tongue tied and my responses shut down when he confronts me. I'm like a naughty toddler in front of him not a grown, reasonably well educated woman.
He's going to be on at me all evening as eldest DD is at a friends tonight.......perfect chance for him to discuss my silliness and I'll try and respond and end up feeling an idiot, he's so bloody clever!!!! I'm feeling really despondent and thinking should I just give in for an easy life (although I know it's not ever going to be an easy life but at least I'm not going to have to fight over custody!)
Hope the rest of you lovely ladies are doing better than me?

Hi :)
I haven't had time to read them all as today I am shifting stuff between the houses and building flat pack furniture. All by myself. Inner warrior channeled. Things are calm, last night we talked a bit, and even managed a bit of a joke. I appreciate for him it did seem like a shell shock so I am cutting him a bit of slack. Ive remained firm though and told him he isn't going to change my mind and I cannot tell him what lies in the future.
Kids have been amazing, I showed them the house last night and they love it. Its only about a 1/3 of the size of our home, but its nice. The youngest was disappointed we weren't staying yesterday. The eldest has been a darling.
I will reply to everyone individually tomorrow when I can, but just wanted to drop in and say I am OK and safe :)
Take care everyone.

All this strikes home a lot (and makes me glad of my divorce). I remember for a period he knew I wanted a divorce and he didn't and he'd constantly want to discuss it but the discussions were always 99.9% about things he was unhappy about, not the real issue which was that I wanted to leave him and he didn't want to leave me so my issues were surely the bigger concern.

In the end after I'd seen a solicitor on my own to get legal advice I reached the decision to divorce and then I told him, very simply and without any doubt - not I am consider it but this is what is going to happen.

It was the most difficult thing I ever did telling him we were getting divorced and obviously much harder for him than for me (as he didn't want a divorce).

beachbaby.
He can talk, you just have to sit & listen, you don't need to REPLY.
Have a few one liners, try not to "snap back"
ex I have thought about it.
Do you think he might get angry ? if so maybe have your phone predialled to the local police.
You might consider saying, "after all this time you have decided to make an effort, but you & I both know it will revert to the usual scenario".
" It has not been good enough, & it will never be good enough."
but mainly Try to not get riled, think "Ice queen."
if he starts shouting, stand up & walk out of the room
"I am not prepared to be treated like this"

beachbaby no matter how articulate we sound, and even if we could channel that into you......it's pointless.

They are masters at twisting, masters at manipulation. You just end up with spaghetti head (as I used to call it)

You can not make them understand. They will never see it from your point of view. Ever.....

Once you understand that, you are free.

Lots of nodding, platitudes and one sentence mantras. Examples.

I don't feel the same way
You are entitled to your opinion
I'm sorry you feel that way.
I've made my point
Etc.

Do not get drawn in. They really really want you to. They are like vampires gaining their power from your weakening resolve.

It's a game/battle to them to get you.....I wrote complicit, but that's not right. They want you crushed. They want you not knowing which end is up. They must enjoy your turmoil. I think they enjoy it because it feeds into their belief that you need them and are nothing without them.
Otherwise what could be the explanation? That you are useless and they are always right?

SpongeBob I remember you not all the details but so glad you are now free!!

Thinking of you all, KOKO all of you in the process of claiming your lives back

sass, yes I concluded the same and in fact the older children and I decided it didn't really matter if every single person on the outside who mostly all loved him (Jekyll and Hyde really) and never saw him as he was at home thought he was wonderful. We knew the truth of what it was like at home. Also as long as the end result was the divorce I didn't really mind what he said or did or even if he thought he was in the right. In fact often on divorce both people can be right but just have utterly different views. I couldn't care less about proving who was bad or right or wrong. I just wanted the divorce and the fact he's now remarried and I assume happy is fine. I have no problems with that at all either. Just glad to wake up every morning knowing he is gone.

Tiger, that of course is Detachment at its perfection.
This is what you are looking for.
Even if he isn't a bully, manipulator, abuser.
Even if he is right & you are wrong.
Even if the whole world thinks you are making a huge mistake.
It's you inside, it's your life, your decision. you do not need to prove anything.
The whole relate/mediator thing is about them not accepting it's over. (obviously you comply to prove to any judge that you are doing things by the book....but if there are no kids, skip this stage.
As long as YOU know its over, it's OVER

That's true. When I went to Relate alone (he wouldn't go) for one session the lady concluded I wanted a divorce and said so and she was right. Nothing else matters. My ex could argue I was awful or in the wrong or mad but none of that stops me getting a divorce. We have no fault divorce in the UK which was a massive improvement on the pre 1970s position as before then you had to prove who was in the wrong which was ridiculous as in most marriages both people have faults.

People use a mediator to negotiate money settlements and children and that can work fine. We didn't bother. We just negotiated money face to face (as lived together until absolutely the end of it -decree absolute after financial consent order, house and mortgage and money transfers... only at the end did he move out).

Just a quickie as I am in between car loads, but I am ok, last night wasn't easy, I managed to keep to all smooth as possible and today too. I will give a proper update later when the boys are settled and I have a glass of in hand.

I hope everyone else is ok, thanks again for the support.

I can't stand it right now. He was going away to give me space but that hasn't happened. He now wants us to have a few drinks tonight and have a kiss and cuddle. I know he's hurting right now and I can see in his eyes he knows that it's over but why does he feel the need to pretend everything is fine? He's took the middle dc to the pictures today which is something he's never done before or maybe once and he stroked my hair this morning for about 10 mins. He's like a new man and I do know it probably won't last as it never has before. But then I doubt myself and think maybe this is it and he can change and we can have a normal life.

Why can't he just hate me or be like he normally is as this is just messing with my head

Well done pudding and hope you and the boys get settled in the new house ok!

Thinking of you today Pudding21 if that doesn't feel like a strange thing to say for someone who only 'knows' you through the internet. Hoping that whatever happens today that by the end of it you and your boys are curled up eating takeaway in your new home feeling contentedly exhausted at the start of your new life.

Also thinking of you pudding. You've been so brave.

pudding Hope you have had as good a day as you can.

Dm86 don't forget, he is not a changed man. A new, changed man would have gone away and let you have your space. Instead it is still all about his needs, I'm sure stroking your hair wasn't too much of a hardship for him was it? Him pretending everything is fine is him telling you your feelings don't matter and he sees fit to completely ignore them. Don't get sucked back in by his nicey-nicey act, it's all self serving.

I agree dm86.

He isn't a changed man at all. A changed man would give you the one thing that you have asked for. Instead, he has ignored what you want, and is trying to keep himself exactly where he wants to be, by throwing you 1 crumb.

10 mins out of anyone's day is bugger all......

And I know this is tough love dm86 but I would bet my house he isn't hurting right now.
Panicking......maybe.
But hurting?
Nope.

Hello. Mixed emotions here tonight so am looking for wisdom from the ladies who have been through this already (will post on the coparenting with a Narc thread shortly too for advice).

Last night was really hard, I am seriously co dependant on him. I know this, and its going to take a lot of work to get me to a point when I can see clearly.. I have a need to want him to care and love me. He showed me last night, he can express himself in a loving way, but obviously a little too late. Sassandfaff you reply to dm86 probably gives me the answer. Panicking maybe, but I did feel that he was genuinely hurting.

I thought as I left I would feel relieved, I just wanted to collapse into a heap. I guess little sleep since Wed hasn't helped. The boys have been great but I can see its going to be a challenge with working full time and full child care at the moment (hast off to all the single mums......one day in!)

The house is more or less sorted (unpacked), but its a third of the size with a tiny garden. I miss being in my own house. I miss him (even thogugh I know what he has done to me).

How can I move through this? I have bought a diary today to remind myself of why because sometimes I still wonder if its all a big mistake.

First entry: when tidying away todays leftover tea, I used a tuppeware dish a little too big for the job it needed to do and no-one told me to put it in another one even though it meant you would have to wash the original one up.

I imagine there will be daily reminders like this, but they seem insignificant to the pain I am feeling and the disruption to the boys.

Feeling totally lost (sorry for the self indulgant post!).

Not self-indulgent at all - absolutely normal.

You're just going through a massive change. Of course you're lost and anxious. Be kind to yourself and give yourself a bit of time to deal with everything that has happened. For what it's worth, I feel total admiration for your bravery.

Oh pudding.
Big hug. (((())))
I know how that feels. I remember not being able to stop myself sobbing in an absolutely heartbroken manner, despite the fact that I was on a bus at the time.
As someone who is extremely introverted and dies of embarrassment very easily, it was particularly horrendous.
My overriding feeling was of great hurt that he could treat me like this. I had loved him with all my heart. I had been the best person I could possibly be to him. Always put him first, even at my own expense.
I was completely bewildered and confused that he could treat me this way.
It took my dm to make me see sense. I kept on and on about, if only he would listen to me (dm: but he won't) if only I could make him see what I mean (dm: but you can't) ad nauseum.
And one day it just dawned on me.
I could be the most rational, loving, understanding, intellectual person on the planet, it would make frigg all difference.
He is wired wrong, but he thinks he is wired right and I am wrong. He is not going to ever listen to me. My breath is wasted and my love is wasted.
He is not worthy of it and doesn't deserve it.
You spend too long asking the questions, what did I do wrong, what is it about me, that means he doesn't love me like he's supposed to.?
And those are the wrong questions.
He doesn't love you like he's supposed to, because he's not capable. You haven't done anything wrong because no matter how perfect you are, he deliberate looks for something to attack you with because he wants you on the back foot.
You can't possibly feel it's all fixed on the 1 st night. I meat my now partner 1year and 2months after I split from my ex and I still cried over stuff on him. I had a stutter and needed a drink for most social occasions (still do sometimes) for a very long time.
They are extremely damaging people but it's insidious, and you don't realise until it's too late.
Take each day as it comes and you will detach more and more until you realise......what the fuck was I thinking!
I'm not glad it happened on most levels. But I do like what it made me......eventually.
I'm not recognisable from the person I was then.
Koko.