My marriage maybe over?

[Intricatelysimple]

My 'd'h and I have been together for 20 years, married for 12 with 3 dc. From the very start he was a controlling bully. Your stereotypical street angel house devil. I have tried many times to end our marriage but there's always been something holding me back, kids/finances/insert reason here.

Anyway from reading these boards I have managed to get some strength from the great collective wisdom of you fabulous ladies and have decided after the most recent episode that enough is truly enough. I have little real world support as I have no close friends - as is typical for when married to such a man. I get along fine with my family but we wouldn't be close enough to discuss our more personal problems.

After a quite minor incident last week I felt it was the straw that finally broke the camel's back so to speak. He's bewildered and is treating me as if i'm crazy. He went so far as to tell me "I need to get over my mid life crisis". And that was the kindest thing he said. However I know he realizes he's gone to far so now enter Disney Dad the greatest dad there ever has been! He cooks, he cleans, he does homework, he speaks in a lovely respectful, interested voice to the dc asking all kinds of lovely questions about how their day has been. He shops! Groceries! Wow this is truly amazing. This man has been in my house all this time and I didn't know it! I must be so foolish not to have noticed. Oh how we'll laugh about all of this in the future!

Of course not.

This is the act and I have to admit it's good. Probably the best performance yet. I should call the Academy Awards people and get them to put him on the list. The very tippety top of the list cos this is really good. But I'm not fooled. I can still see the seething hysteria in his eyes when I dared to go out with some work colleagues over Christmas and stayed out until the ungodly hour of 1am. After 5 hours of ignored texts and phonecalls he was waiting outside the restaurant we had gone to literally staking his own wife. That was pretty embarrassing. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

So thank you for reading. Writing this down has been cathartic. I'm seeing a solicitor next week and am starting the legal process. The real world process will most likely be much trickier but i'll get through.

Thanks pudding. It is hard especially when there's dc to consider too. I have felt this way for around 5 years and yet I still feel guilty that I maybe haven't tried hard enough. I've told him over the years I wasn't happy things need to change. Its only now I've asked for a divorce he seems to want to change.

I have lost who I am too and have asked him for the space but I don't think he's willing to give it.

Hi dm86. Welcome!

Aww how nice of him to want to change for the sake of your marriage. He only wants to change the bits that suit him though? And in his timeframe and from his perspective, yeah? My h is similar. You see what i have failed to notice is that he is a perfect specimen of a human being. From his point of view his only flaw is that he's been a bit lazy and has been generally helping out a bit more about the house. So what's my problem? Ok let me give you a translation:

H thinks: Hmm maybe I should do a bit more around the house so it looks like outwardly i'm a "good guy"
I think: You're a lazy fucker who has managed to evade doing his fair share for 20 years so your efforts are now far too little and far too late

H thinks: If I don't talk about it then there's no problem, right?
I think: You've stonewalled me for long enough. If you want to live in silence and never discuss the real problems then please don't let the door hit you on the way out.

H thinks: Get the toys out kids - Superdad is home!
I think: Playing with the kids on your terms and when it suits you doesn't make you a good dad. Good dad's don't make their children's mother feel anxious and on the edge of their nerves.

So I say FUCK THAT SHIT. Stop letting him determine how this plays out. You ask for space. He agrees. He decides not to give you space. He knows crowding you keeps you off kilter and that's how he wants you. Please please consider how you could get out of this marriage. He's the only one getting anything out of it. Why should YOUR life be lived on his terms? Please contact Women's Aid and talk, talk, talk. I can't promise to hold the answers and I'm in the same boat as you but we do both want the same outcome. And no these "men" will never change enough to give us the lives we deserve. You HAVE tried hard enough. Please stop beating yourself up. Do you think your husband has spent even one moment agonising about your despair? Well please lovey if the answer is no then please don't waste another moment of yours.

Great advice Intricatelysimple.

This might seem a bit personal to share here, but here is the letter I want to give OH. Do you think I am being too nice? Should I just tell him and be done? I was reading the Outofthefog website and i am not sure it goes with their guidance

I know this is a shock for you, although I have told you countless times and even suggested a trial separation earlier on in the year. I hope you realise that I am not doing this on some whim, but because I honestly feel and believe we need to be apart. I am not saying that in the future I will not feel like I have made a mistake, or that I will no longer love you, but I need you to give me space. I need you to let me go, and stop trying to rescue something that has been an issue for a long time.
Our relationship has not been good for a while. Sure, we have moments and times where we have had fun, been happy and things seem ok, and I will tell you now I don’t regret anything. But these have become less frequent and the incidents in between have become more upsetting for me. I have been all over the place recently, which I am sure you sense. Desperate for you to show me love, for you to show me kindness, desperate to have what we used to have, wanting to get it all back. Why or how this happened isn’t really the point, the point is it is not how it was. It reached a point I feel the damage has been done, and to get that back now would be impossible.
I feel I am never good enough for you, it doesn’t matter what I do or how I behave it is not enough, you want and need more. You criticise, snap and get angry over the tiniest little things. I feel like you have lost the ability to communicate with me. I feel sometimes you despise and resent me, and that is poisoness. I try so very hard to keep the peace, but it is not enough. In turn I feel my self-esteem is almost nil and I feel like now I am not a true authentic version of myself. I change how I behave around you in the hope you won’t shout or get angry/disappointed with me. I tip toe around you wondering what reaction you will have or what mood you are in and that has made me very anxious. You might not see that in me, and think it is bullshit but I am anxious, and I feel like my mental health is suffering. Whenever I have a little gripe about something, or show you I am annoyed with the way you just talked with me, you raise the moodiness stake, like you have more of a reason to be pissed with me. It is like a constant competition. You don’t see it, but I cry a lot, at night, in my office, in the shower. I feel like our outlooks are different on life, and we have moved in different directions. I have been trying to help you, but essentially we can only help ourselves.
I appreciate your role in our relationship and I think you are a good dad. I have no issue with you being the stay at home parent, if only you seemed like you enjoyed it. I know you love all of us, but your actions towards me show otherwise. I don’t think you really understand how you behave. You look sad and angry a lot of the time. You seem to not be able to fully relax and enjoy yourself. Some days are better than others, but almost every day we spend together has some cross words or anger or belittling or criticism. In turn I find myself being angry, and I am not by nature an angry person.
I would like to remain as amicable as possible and if possible stay friends, this will be the hardest decision I have ever had to make. It isn’t to do with anyone else and I don’t want to have a relationship with anyone else. I have not been influenced by anyone, this is my choice. It is about how happy we are together, and we are not I have tried really really hard for us to talk about it and move on, but one act of anger or rage just reminds me it is not healthy for either of us. I obviously trigger something in you, and you need to have peace in your mind too. I don’t want to look at this as a failure, or that we are throwing away a family. Of course I want to keep the family unit together, but it cannot be for the sake of my mental health, because it will be the kids that suffer by having a mother who isn’t strong enough to protect and provide for them. I have spent my life being unselfish and I think it is time I make sure I am ok, so I can look after our children as best I can (with you of course).
I have found a place to live, and when you feel ready we can talk about logistics of how we manage with the kids. I don’t want to affect your relationship with them, I want you to be with me the most important people in their lives. Essentially we need to both be there to make sure the boys are ok. I don’t want them to see us arguing anymore, I don’t want them to be witness to uncontrolled anger outbursts. I want them to have an idea of what a healthy relationship is. I want us all to live in peace and be happy in ourselves. I have cried a lot of tears, feel a lot of guilt and obligation, this hasn’t been a decision I have made lightly. The reason why I continued to try up to now is the fear of hurting you. It will hurt us both, but I think it is more harmful to stay. I would like to say we could keep trying, really I would, but in all honesty, it is too late. I don’t think the feelings you have towards me will change, and it will keep going round and round. I am tired, and so are you. It is beating us down. Please don’t beg me to stay, please don’t try and reverse this decision. I want to talk, but I also know in my heart my mind has been made up. I don’t know what the future will hold, it is going to be a rollercoaster for all of us. I want that to be as smooth as it can be.

Should I bother, or leave it. Just not engage further. What do you think>?

Pudding my heart really goes out to you when I read your letter. I can literally feel your emotion. It's your decision at the end of the day if you give your letter to your husband but the only thing i'll say to you is that you are dealing with someone who is emotionally incontinent and may well try to use what you've said against you. He is only going to see the criticisms and is not going to see the parts where you say you are hurting. Personally I think it's a mistake to open so much of your heart to him. Let me give you an example. I told my h a few weeks ago during a complete emotional meltdown on my part that he made me feel suicidal and that sometimes I wished that when I went to bed I wished that I just didn't wake up. A normal empathetic person's response to that would be horror and hopefully wanting to put right whatever was wrong. He walked out of the room and completely ignored me. He sent me a nasty text a few days ago basically telling me that i'm a terrible mother because of the "mood" i've been in and that "if I just want to sleep instead of interacting with the children then I should just leave". Can you see how he twisted my words for his own gain? Fucking prick. Protect your heart my friend. I just don't think he's worth the explanation.

Sorry to butt in suddenly! :)
I've not experienced anything like you but I agree do not send the letter in this form. As well as opening up too much of yourself (which he could later use against you) for comfort, its too long for him to grasp the really important points. Also - are you expecting a response? Because it could be read that you are opening a discussion...

I agree with PP, don't send the letter pudding. He will only see weakness in it. For those words to resonate with him he would need to have the same moral compass as you, a similar outlook on life and how you should treat people. But he doesn't. So anything you say, he will have a counter-view that justifies to himself why you're the one being selfish, for example. That he has to put up with you and your failings so why are you ripping the family apart when nobody is perfect blah blah etc etc.

He treats you the way he does because he has no respect for you. Further words will not change his mind, it's your actions that count now. My counsellor once told me once that just because somebody has an opinion doesn't mean it's true or that you have to believe it. So treat his opinion of you with the contempt it deserves. It's not your OH who needs to be convinced that you deserve better...it's you.

Hi DM86, sorry you are in this situation too x

Pudding your letter is so heartfelt and I think it explains exactly how you feel and the sadness you're feeling at leaving. It is so honest and well written. When I left my DH six years ago (well ran away) I left a letter but like intricately said, my DH took everything I said as an attack against himself. He never managed to see how heartbroken I was. It made me feel better writing it but it never got the reaction I wanted, which was for us to open up to each other and openly talk. He just got angry and annoyed. You know your DH though and need to do what you feel is right x

Intricately - everything you say is so true and good to read as it makes perfect sense! You should be a counsellor!!! You def make me feel stronger x

My update -
My DH spoke to me again tonight telling me he can't let go of our family and he didn't realise that he made me feel unhappy (😧). He said if we tried again he would be more mindful but I said I am struggling to get over some of the really demeaning and hurtful things he's done to me (admittedly most of the really bad stuff was urs ago but he still makes me feel rubbish and totally inadequate regularly). He walked off though without saying a word and is now acting like I didn't say anything!!!! No apology, no recognition, nothing!!!!! Not sure what I was expecting but I am always shocked by his lack of emotion. If someone told me that what I did (even if it was years ago) upset them I would feel remorse and would tell them I was sorry but nope, he can't feel anything as he looks at me with a 'how dare you bring that up again' face and that's it!!!! I also brought up him not helping me out when I had sickness bug with the DC and his reaction was that he didn't think I was that ill! He thought id been throwing up all night and was then just feeling a bit tired! He told me he always praises me to other people and never says a bad word about me.....just like he does for his family (meaning his mum and sister) as I am part of his family?! That's because he has to give the illusion of being perfect and having a perfect family!!!! I told him if our house was on fire he'd save everyone first (meaning his mum and sister) before me and he never denied it either. I really am bottom of the pile.........he'll do anything to please his narcisistic mother who treats him like dirt and does noting to help anyone yet those of us who help him daily are just treated with little regard! Sad really but so true ️xxx
Good luck pudding telling him, thoughts are with you!

Wow tempusEedjit just read your post, you seem to have our DH's summed up in two paragraphs!

Don't send the letter pudding x

TempusEedjit going to remember your counsellors words regarding opinion! Brilliant!

beachbaby I have to say my counsellor's words were a bit of a revelation! I wasted the last few years of my marriage to abusive exH trying to gain his "permission" for us to separate. In the end I just went ahead and left him anyway when I finally realised that his opinion only had power over me if I chose to accept it.

I note your OH desperately tries to please his mother because he wants her approval - I guess as an outsider you can clearly see he is on a hiding to nothing because his mum is a narcissist who treats him like dirt. Yet he has you desperately trying to please him and wanting his approval even though he treats you like dirt...see where I'm going with this?

You can get through this x

Hey pudding. Just wondering how you're doing? Thinking of you tonight and hope you're ok.

Back again sorry I couldn't answer your questions beachbaby. Yes I stayed in the family home (but only because he gaslighted me into giving up on all the money he owed me otherwise he'd have fought me for years in the courts and I didn't want DS to see me break down)...We have shared custody because he asked for it (so he didn't have to pay maintenance). He gets half the week and every other school day (but is now planning to leave the country for selfish totally avoidable reasons so I'll be full time parent by default)...

See the pattern here? Statesd one thing for the courts and does another in reality...is completely unreliable and often asks me to cover his days/weekends, especially when he found out I was seeing someone, etc.

I've learnt to say no and not say why...or feel guilty about it. It has forced him to ask friends and family who now see him for his entitled, self-centred, lying self.

And DS has been so much happier since we've split. Things are clear. He knows I'm the reliable one he confides in and that his Dad is good for sport and fun stuff..when he's there. It works for him. And I'm free of the anxiety and slowly getting my old self back, which benefits DS too. Your child is only two, he'll be fine, really he will.

OP your posts sound so full of energy it's contagious! The inner warrior thing really helps, have been channelling her today to help ignore some severe hoovering (outofthefog term for when they try to suck you back in with sudden good behaviour). I just picture that girl from the hunger games film being so strong and poised despite being sad and levelling that arrow at the enemy!

pudding I agree don't send the letter. Keep it for yourself, it's a good reminder of how much you've given him only for him not to appreciate the amazing person you are. He does not deserve you, not even a teenie weenie part of you. Don't let him take your words and feelings and twist them into ammunition and guilt mongering. Don't feed into the game of explaining, you don't have to explain (remember JADE)... You sound like a kind person, be kind to yourself not him.

x

half the week and every other weekend that should read..tired sorry

Hi everyone. Thanks for all the advice on the letter. I didn't give it to him, I know you are right. I also didn't tell him yet, but he knows its coming. I am going to tell him today while the kids are at school. I plan to use Thursday and Friday to tidy up and make the new place nice and take the boys there Saturday. We can talk logistics later. JADE.....I am on it :). But really thanks for everyone who took the time to reply, it means a lot.

@Intricatelysimple: what a incontinent bastard indeed your OH is, you tell him you are suicidal and he ignores it. I kind feel the same way. Keep strong sista ;) You know you are very eloquent, you should right a book :)

ocelot7 : thanks for the advice :)

beachbaby18: I feel for you, you can try give it one last chance if you feel you need to to understand you did everything you could. So you can leave knowing, you really did try. But I think now you know you want to leave, its very difficult to try and try. I have been trying, as you have, for years. They won't change, maybe for a week or so, but you will be waiting for the next episode.

TempusEedjit : thanks, I am getting there convincing myself I deserve better, in fact I think I am there. About 1 year ago he cried telling me one day he is frightened to wake up and I realise I deserve better.........he didn't change, and I have :) You have great insight. Thanks again

mysinkingheart: you did a really brave thing and I am pleased to hear you are the better for it. I am remembering JADE. Its in my head, so thanks for that.

So he will be home in about 20 minutes, then he is going food shopping. This monring he asked if he should get the usual shop. So when he returns the plan is to tell him. He has all day to do whatever and then the kids will be home at 4pm. I am going to tell him I need the next few days to get sorted, but if he starts shouting, getting angry or tries to change my mind I will go immediately.

Wish me luck [worried]

Hiya. Phew Pudding I'm glad you're ok. I have to admit I was worried about you. I'm sure you know statistically that leaving an abuser is a very dangerous time so I am really glad to hear you're well.

I'm sending good vibes, karma, prayers - all that stuff people usually say they need. However I know you don't need any of it. You've got your inner warrior and your lovely new home to land softly in when you make your great leap. Maybe give your parents a heads up about what your plans are today so you can call on them if you need them. We're also here with you every step of the way

Done it. He says he is shattered. Shouted at me a lot. Is really fucking angry but carried on doing the washing up.

Said I am being sensationalist and melodramatic. I just said "and therein lies the problem".

If he gets shitty I will leave today.

Now I am back at my desk, working again.

Well if you had any teeny tiny doubts then there's your answer. His response was to be angry and throw all his toys out. Deep breaths. You CAN do this

pudding so he shouted at you a lot then accused you of being melodramatic? The irony would almost be funny if this wasn't your life. Well done you, stay strong.

You too intricately and others on this thread, I hope you are ok today.

Oh pudding21 that's great. I've been thinking about you and hoping you were ok. You were spot on with the word "brave" in what you said to me and the same goes for you absolutely. It is unbelievably hard to leave someone like that, between the games, guilt trips and bad faith...but you're doing it!
Stay strong, don't doubt yourself no matter what he might come up with to try and reel you back in.
I can't tell you how weak I was at the time, it was physically damaging without him having to lift a finger.... but now I've got the boundaries up and have no guilt weighing me down I can manage the "relationship" we need to have to parent DS. It's not always a piece of cake and his personality hasn't changed at all so sometimes I feel sad or angry with him it's true. But now I see that as a normal reaction to manipulatuve behaviour, not as something I have to fix, take responsibility for, which makes all the difference.
Encouraging smiles to all .

Pudding - well done, you've done it!!!!! New home and new start, please keep us updated and hope your DH doesn't become more difficult before you leave, as intricately said, stay safe

Intricately- how are you doing?

My DH has gone away for two days and one night and the house always feels lighter as soon as he steps out of the door. He didn't carry on our conversation last night and has still not acknowledged the fact that I told how hurtful some of the things he has done. I may aswell be talking to our dog for all the response that I get off him. I still don't understand why they are so emotionally barren and how they can't feel any empathy.
Guess I can spend the rest of my life trying and questioning but think him not even discussing how he's hurt me tells me all I need to know - he really doesn't care!
I've contacted a solicitor as I'm really panicky about the custody over ds. DD is older and more able to cope. Just hope they tell me that it is possible to get sole custody with him having access!
Still feel like I'm in some sort of dream and just floating along with it all, wish someone would come and tell me what to do and what to say. I'm so scared when I talk to DH that I don't say what needs to be said!

My sinking heart - thanks for answering my questions, glad your DS is happy and you've met someone new. Sorry your DH is such an arse!

Thanks everyone.

He's gone food shopping ;) I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad. Thing is this morning he said "shall i get everything i normally do" as if to lead me into a question about what i was doing, then says he is shocked. Go figure.

I am going to the bank now, then later this afternoon I will go to the new house, and make the beds and have a clean and see what I need to buy.

I am very lucky to have supportive friends, family and work colleagues who are now covering for me so I dont get into trouble with the boss. I will tell the boss of course, but not yet.

I am also lucky to have you lovely ladies for support :)

Hey beachbaby I really feel for you, it's horrible feeling scared and not knowing what to say. It makes you freeze when what you need to do is escape the situation.
Maybe just try not to talk about things to him. Focus on getting legal advice and on keeping things as light as possible for your little one. Sharing your feelings with him is pointless I think. If he was normal he'd be trying to understand you and focusing on working things out together with you. Trust how your guts feel. If tve answer is anxious most of the time that's your signal to leave. Full stop x

pudding yeah that's him minimizing..what normal person would think about food shopping when their relationship is ending?! It's great that you have the new place lined up

Hey Pudding it must feel so good to have control over your own life. You have your own safe place now and don't have to deal with him any longer if you don't wish to. Detaching is probably the most difficult part in my opinion and you've managed that so eloquently. I look forward to the updates about your move

That's good news beachbaby that your going to see a solicitor. Maybe when you have more answers then you won't feel so overwhelmed. And no you are not weak. You are so so strong but you can't see it as you're so downtrodden. Take the time while your husband is away to maybe make a list of all the reasons you are afraid to leave. It's your list so there's no right or wrong reasons. When you have it maybe you could start working through each reason and consider a possible solution. I know exactly how you feel. I feel a bit like I have spent my life fantasising about leaving mu husband as if it was a pipe dream that I couldn't realise. I always had a reason to stay and yes some of them were valid. There were times that we were in such a bad place financially that it would have been impossible to have 2 homes and I am sure our children would have suffered if I had left then. Equally there were times when we could have split but I was just afraid to and that was valid too. It has taken me many years to get to the place I am now. This board has helped immensely. I have spent a lot of time reflecting and it has taken me a long time to realise that I deserve happiness. For so long I thought that that was a horribly selfish way to think and thought I was doing the right thing by putting the childrens needs first. But the truth is to be a good mum I need to be happy. A good father loves his wife and by doing that makes his wife and children happy. We can't carry the burden of being responsible for everyones happiness can we? Take care of yourself. Your children will thank you for that.

Tempus and mysinkingheart thank you for sharing your experiences. It really is a revelation to hear what you're saying and knowing your experiences can be my truths too. Do you know what I mean?

Well no change in my household. Still have picture but no sound so that's fine for now. Looking forward to seeing the solicitor on Friday. I really feel in control of this. I actually think the hardest part was making the decision and now I have all I can see is the future and it looks good (well after I get through the pile of shit right in front of me!). He can't hurt me any more because I just won't let him. It's strangely liberating.

Happy Wednesday everyone!