Dating: should the man pay?

[PutneyPandora]

Hi,
I've been out of the dating game for a while but wondered in the very early stages of dating should you let the man pay for drinks and dinner, go Dutch or offer to pay something towards the bill?
I don't want to come across as a cheapskate but equally don't want to come across like I expect him to pay.
Male or female opinions welcome!
Thanks

Yes, exactly flaming. Any man who asks a woman out, and then puts her through a horrible, petty little negotiation of who pays what does not deserve a second date.

its appallingly shallow to expect a man to pay for the first date.

It's not wrangling though.

Bill arrives.

• I'll get this!
• oh thanks, that's really nice of you but let's split it
• OK

Btw, first speaker offering to pay could be a man or a woman.

I hear the people saying it's not about hard cash it's about treating someone well, and if a man won't pay then it's no second date because they don't treat you well. But why aren't men allowed to think exactly the same?

Oh yes, that 'horrible, petty little negotiation of paying your way. Shock horror

Do you not have access to your own money or something?

Because we are back to men's expectations that you'll be dolled up to the nines, look a certain way that is sexually attractive to them. That's a fact and that doesn't come cheap. Theres expectations on their side why can't there be on ours ?

Why do you have to be 'dolled up to the nines'?

I have first dated lots (OLD!)
I mentioned this upthread - I've only once had a wrangling situation.
I already knew I didn't want another date but I had a feeling he did.
Anyway, I like to split it - but especially in that situation.
I told him twice that I preferred to split, once lighthtly and the second (when he was ignoring that) quite firmly. He snuck off and paid it.
He totally over-ruled my very explicit expression of what I was comfortable with.
That's not a sign of him treating me well!

But every other date has managed perfectly fine with no angst and wrangling to cope with "let's split it" or "I'll get the next round" or "thank you that's lovely - I'll pay next time though, OK?"

When it is normal to you not to expect a man to pay then it's really no drama splitting the bill.

Are you not expecting men to look smart and be well groomed then?

newbrummie are you seriously suggesting men have to pay for dinner because Max Factor is expensive?

I have gone on dates in clothes I already own, and... with no make up on!!!!!!

MadHattersWineParty try going on a date where you're not and let me know how that pans out.

Oh and if you're a single mum which I'd imagine lots of us are on here, men also expect your children to magically disappear for the evening too. It all adds up to a heck of a lot more money than my dinners going to cost.

I even got second dates with my make up free look

My first dates tended to be nice but low key pubs rather than the latest bar, so putting on a smart top with jeans was dressy enough to show an effort. And I wore the same outfit for each pretty much, and it was an outfit I already owned.

Two of my first dates had primary residence of their children.

I don't date anymore Newbrummie because I'm happily with DP.

However, I didn't feel I had to groom and preen and 'doll myself up' to secure any further dates, nor 'earn' my dinner!

Well as I said we are all looking for different things and have different expectations

"aren't men allowed to feel exactly the same?"

Well they're allowed to - I just wouldn't want to date them.
Who cares about the money. Go somewhere free if needs must, but at least make the effort to organise it or some gesture. It's not that hard is it?

I suppose it depends if you want an equal in life, or a 'daddy' figure.

Normally the guy does the meal and the girl does the drinks, works out about the same anyways.

Daddy figure lol
My boyfriend is younger than me and certainly doesn't act as a daddy figure lol

I meant 'daddy' figure as in a provider role.

I know what you meant and that's not what I looked for or ended up with just because he buys the meals.

Many men do have an instinct to be in a provider role and that's ok too.

The woman getting dolled up, and the man paying is part of a courtship ritual, which I quite like. When he picks up the cheque, it does signify his dominance, and there is something a little proprietal about it but that turns me (and maybe also him) on, so what's the problem? If all that's not his bag, then I have offered to pay, so he's not left out of pocket. Clearly, I don't actually believe he's 'bought' me, it's just a subtle form of fantasy. Consenting adults, and all that.

Also, I think it's worth considering the oft-bemoaned 'sweetshop' mentality that OLD engenders in men. If he knew he'd have to pay every time, he'd be less inclined to be out every other night, keeping several women on a rotation. When he picks up the cheque, it's a sign you don't have a time wasting player on your hands.

My dp on our first date cooked at his place. He didn't take me to a restaurant instead he cooked a chicken soup from scratch and he certainly put a lot of ingredients into it. He won my heart that night. He didn't need to flash the cash at a restaurant. He put his love into his food and served it to me.

Exactly, Horrid - he showed he cared enough about you to feed you. He provided.

Imagine if Horrid's DH had asked her to chip in 50% of the ingredients. That would have been equal, no?