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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Dating: should the man pay?

360 replies

PutneyPandora · 18/01/2017 18:29

Hi,
I've been out of the dating game for a while but wondered in the very early stages of dating should you let the man pay for drinks and dinner, go Dutch or offer to pay something towards the bill?
I don't want to come across as a cheapskate but equally don't want to come across like I expect him to pay.
Male or female opinions welcome!
ThanksSmile

OP posts:
Offred · 22/01/2017 17:48

It is just annoying when people say things like 'oh it has nothing to do with sexism you are just angry women I think it is nice/romantic'...

Of course it has to do with sexism, it comes from men having economic power and women being purchasable commodities... that is where it comes from, there isn't, as far as I am aware, any dispute over that. If you want to say 'well I like being treated like that' fine but don't tell other women they can't be opposed to the whole idea of it and where it comes from just because you have vague ideas about it 'being nice'.

Offred · 22/01/2017 17:51

Other women thinking it is an archaic tradition that nobody should perpetuate in the modern day, or even shock horror saying that to people, has absolutely zero effect on what you as an individual does or can do.

HappyJanuary · 22/01/2017 17:55

But you can be opposed to the whole idea of it without comparing people who aren't opposed to it to dolls, children and prostitutes. You can make a strong argument that might change minds without sneering about someone's self esteem or inferior position in a relationship.

expatinscotland · 22/01/2017 17:57

'men who regularly forgot their wallets'

Why on Earth would you give a pisstaker like this a second look in? I wouldn't even meet up with a 'friend' who 'regularly' did this. Why be such a mug?

Offred · 22/01/2017 17:58

Yeah well if you read my posts I have not made those comparisons, drawn those inferences or made those accusations and in fact it is a minority of people who share my position re it being archaic who have made those comparisons/inferences/accusations.

Offred · 22/01/2017 17:59

And I fail to see how you retain any kind of moral high ground by dismissing the idea that it even comes from sexism and calling women who object 'angry women'?

Offred · 22/01/2017 18:00

Note also you weren't bothered by the men expressing distaste with it also... just the women...

Offred · 22/01/2017 18:02

And gender equality is not about opposing men and supporting women. It is about opposing inequality whether it is a man or a woman who is perpetuating it.

HappyJanuary · 22/01/2017 18:05

I know you haven't, I never said you had. But when I objected to the tone of those posts you were the person who jumped in.

I suppose I think an argument is always stronger if you talk convincingly about why you made your choices rather than belittling people who make different ones.

FWIW I would always split a bill. But I don't think I would be annoyed if a man offered, I would think he was trying to do something nice.

Incidentally, my ds has now read this thread and has a new perspective about how some women might feel about him offering to pay.

Offred · 22/01/2017 18:08

I suppose I think an argument is always stronger if you talk convincingly about why you made your choices rather than belittling people who make different ones

But exactly what you did was jump right in belittling people and only just now have you explained your choices...

HorridHenryrule · 22/01/2017 18:08

Lanaor those statements are not really coming from women. That's what men says to women about what they think. I've heard men talk like that about women. What about Donald Trump and he can take what he wants because he has money.

HorridHenryrule · 22/01/2017 18:12

Happy what are you doing to your son he must think your loopy.

Offred · 22/01/2017 18:16

Some men actually do still believe that paying for drinks/dinner entitles them to sex though lanoar...

Don't think women saying it is quite as bad as the men who actually believe it.

Newbrummie · 22/01/2017 18:20

Some men believe all sorts of shite doesn't make it true

HorridHenryrule · 22/01/2017 18:26

Yes that's true but I wouldn't want a man like that. I want to start of at an equal footing. He has no expectations what so ever.

Bant · 22/01/2017 18:54

Some women expect a man should pay for everything just for the pleasure of her company..

One time a woman asked me to go for a drink, chose an expensive cocktail bar and then a restaurant, was monosyllabic and grumpy throughout the entire date, and then when the bill came she just looked expectantly at me. I looked at her, she smiled and actually batted her eyelashes.

So I paid for my food and drink in cash, said goodnight, and left. Any woman that expects me to fawn over her because she's pretty and dull can find someone else. And she will, because men are often morons who think that paying means obligation.

However, she should have paid for the whole thing because she invited me out. At worst, she should have been willing to pay for herself.

Possibly, if I'd paid, she would have expected to sleep with me. I dunno.

I understand the desire to want to be treated. I understand that men usually earn more than women. But I can't understand why some women want to perpetuate the myth that they can be purchased.

Offred · 22/01/2017 19:01

Well no, bant.

As long as there are some men who think they can purchase women I can't understand why women (or men like bant is) shouldn't point out that that is appalling

Newbrummie · 22/01/2017 19:03

Nobody would want a man or woman like that.... I've met guys who don't even want to take you on a date and think they'll get sex after a few texts, somewhere a woman is giving that out though because if someone didn't say yes the guys wouldn't even bother asking and yet that's women's liberation apparently... no need to get to know or like the person just fuck them like a piece of meat ... the rules are most strange these days

ShatnersWig · 22/01/2017 19:05

I remember a woman on the dating thread last year who was in her 20s who expected men to pay for all dates because he should be grateful to be spending time with her and she spent a lot of money on hair and make up to look good for dates. Fortunately most women disagreed with her, but not all

Newbrummie · 22/01/2017 19:09

Well that's another point though, it does cost a fortune to be a woman and when you start adding babysitters into the mix women are often £50 down before you step out the door

Bant · 22/01/2017 19:11

Well men can expect sex after a few texts if they wish. And women can too. How they choose to live their lives isn't really up to anyone else.

However, men who think they're owed it after buying dinner are wankers. Women who think men should pay for dinner in order to (often in vain) earn the chance to possibly have sex in future are also wankers.

In an ideal world, it would be equally split all the time, until you're actually in a relationship. In the meantime, we've all got to just keep an eye out for the entitled buggers. Both men and women.

Newbrummie · 22/01/2017 19:14

I've genuinely never come across a man who's expected sex in return for dinner and I've been bought a lot of dinners which usually resulted in a new Facebook friend and nothing more

HappyJanuary · 22/01/2017 19:48

'But exactly what you did was jump right in belittling people and only just now have you explained your choices'

I'm not belittling anyone's choices, though I might be belittling the way some people choose to express them.

There is definitely a difference. I don't care what other people do with their bill but likening women to dolls, children or prostitutes for doing something different to you isn't on imo.

HappyJanuary · 22/01/2017 19:54

'Happy what are you doing to your son he must think your loopy'

Maybe, but we do talk a lot and this is something we've never discussed. It's also pertinent because he's going on a first date on Tuesday. He asked to read it. Maybe he'll handle the bill-paying issue differently now he knows it offends some women when the man pays!

Offred · 22/01/2017 20:23

But calling people 'angry women' who are 'no different to 'controlling men' is different how?

How is that explaining your view on whether the man should pay calmly without resorting to belittling people?

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