Unrealistic expectations of 10 year relationship?

[Penguin82]

Considering ending my 10 year relationship but feeling a bit like I don't have the right to as he isn't abusive, or like I could be over reacting? My parents had an unhappy marriage so not sure that I always know what's normal..
Dp does have lots of good points:

• made sacrifices and moved country to be with me when we met.
• lovely with dd (4) and when he's home he does everything with her. Leaves the hard stuff to me if he can but if I'm not there he does it all.
• happy for me to pursue my own interests. Took care of dd for 2 weeks when I went away a couple years ago
• doesn't cheat, drink heavily, gamble etc

But.... We've (not just me, I know he has too, but maybe mostly me) been unhappy for monthe, perhaps more. This is why I think it is:
*I had a full time but easy job for a couple years so managed to do all cooking cleaning etc easily. Changed jobs 9 months ago to one with more money but more responsibility and so expect him to chip in more. We have a weekly cleaner but I also expect him to do his share of tidying, cooking (it's him that wants the big meals every night), laundry etc. He does pull his weight mostly when he's here but he isn't here much.

• dp has several very time consuming hobbies. 2 team sports and 1 moto sport. Moto sport officially takes 1 day a onto but there is lots of time and money spent on 'tinkering'. Other sports take 3 evenings a week, 1 morning and 1 afternoon eachieve weekend. He also has 2 worm at least 1 evening a week

I feel that the time and money spent on his hobbies means that we have no family life. It's not too bad in the winter but every summer Im home alone most nights, and often my own interests (and even my paid job at times) are expected to come 2nd to his hobbies. We never haduch in common on paper, but always had fun together. The last year or so it's felt like I'm just a housekeeper most of the time and that he only spends time with me and dd when it fits round his hobbies.
I've told him how unhappy I am before, eve wrote him a letter once, and things improve a little but I think it just comes down to the fact that he doesn't want to prioritise time with me over anything g else.

Not the best night. Ended up back in our bed as he wanted to talk (I know I know). He still thinks it's a few weeks of me not being happy that's built up to this and if he drops a couple nights activities it'll be fibe. I explained things were bigger than that, we've lost our closeness, and have issues with all the money spent on sports (too late to undo that damage now). He just kept minimising and then trying to make me feel bad for bit giving him a chance.
I do feel bad. But will reread this thread and talk to real life friends to remind myself that I'm not mad or expecting too much... I think he would make sone serious changes now, but it's too little too late.

He just kept minimising and then trying to make me feel bad for bit giving him a chance.
It appears that you have given him lots of chances, all of which he has thrown away. He can't really say that you didn't try to talk to him about it before, can he? If he stopped the minimising and really realised what damage he has caused, and was fully committed to making and maintaining changes, do you think you'd reconsider?

If he wants to talk to you, he can miss some activities and do so in daylight hours!

Or at couples counselling or whatever. Not guilt tripping late at night.

And if he slips back into old habits, is the only option for you to discuss this is to split up, and then he'll talk? Because you've tried the other things. Repeat ' I want someone who thinks I and my family matter, and you've had years and we've had many discussions and you don't. You think you have a right to spend your time and our money how you choose, and generously give us attention with whats left. Did and I are not going to be 'what's left' anymore.'

He's been texting today, offering to give up a big sporting event which comes with an overseas jolly, to give us more time together. I don't know, I told him I thought our problems are bigger than that, and also don't want him to give things up then blame or resent me. Will talk to him later, I will be able to tell if he's just desperately trying to appease me or if he's genuinely considering big changes.
Timeisnotaline I think I may quote your last sentence at him!

I'm dubious of 'offering', it just sounds too much like doing you a favour- like he's expecting you to say he doesn't have to do that and still gets the credit for offering. Imho if he were serious he would have just cancelled most of this hobby stuff and not mentioned it, just focused on being more present and trying to work things out.

I'm also not convinced by the 'offering'. If he'd said,'right, I've cancelled A,B and C, and will now be in on D, E and F per week' then it might have been a bit more convincing. But offering? That just sounds like a weak attempt. Personally, I think you might get a better response from him (if that's what you would like) if you told him to move out for a month or so whilst you get yourself sorted and get the house on the market. He'd then get a proper taste of what separation feels like and so would you. He might come to his senses then, or he might not. But at least you'd have a better idea of how seriously he's taking this. At the moment, to him, it's all pie in the sky. No real consequences, just something that mighthappen in the future.

I agree with the above posters about the offering. It will just become something he can hold over you in the future. 'Well I didn't go on my amazing sports jolly for you, how can you complain about anything'. If my dh had suddenly told me he wanted to split because I was away too much I would just cancel everything without even thinking about it. It's obvious.

I think you need to hold onto the future you envision for yourself and ask if he is going to give you that. Does he even feature in it anymore?

I think I'd ask him to really think about what's different this time from the other chances he's had, and for him to honestly think whether he's committed to giving up these over the top hobbies without feeling resentful. Nobody wants to split when they've got dc but you need to say honestly to him that more years of you arguing isn't any good for your dd so if you do give it another chance it needs to be sincere and with very clear expectations on both sides.

Even if he had a complete personality transplant and gave up all his hobbies in order to devote his time to his family (extremely unlikely) could you forgive his past attitude and behaviour? All the time and money he chose to spend on hobbies instead of participating fully in family life.

he feels I've not given him a real chance

He's had 10 years.

Even when you've told him it's over rather than rebooting his entire life he's merely offered to give up a couple of sessions a week.

That in itself shows he really doesn't get it. Even now.

It's all about lip service while maintaining his life's status quo.

You have been with him for 10 years. He is now realizing the error of his ways. I would think about what you want from your relationship with him and after you have thought about it go talk to him. He probably was thinking that you have previously put up with it so why change.

People on here are so quick to say LTB. I do think that if he can make some changes to his hobbies on a permanent basis the issues you have should diminish. I would consider relationship therapy for yourself though. Do you have something like relate in your part of the world?

Trust your instinct.This is a man who doesn't need much family time, that's likely to be the way he's built.

He can't just switch that off or else there would be consequences, be it resentment, boredom or just pent up energy.

He needs to acknowledge why he chooses to be away from his family, he needs to be honest with himself I recall an interview with a similar husband and his drive for sports came down to feeling like he had status, that he was deemed credible and that his sporting achievements gave him kudos to the outside world.
Only by changing his motivations and value system did he really get the change needed.If he gives up some events he is compromising his "values" which will cause negativity to you long term.

I would say separate, I suspect he will still continue and accept that part time dad and full time work and sports suits him just fine.

Well, we've talked, I've been for a long walk and a think. Dp has dropped out of 2 of his hobbies (he's on facebook messaging his groups now). I told him that wasn't all I needed, that I'd been let down so much that although I do still love him, the feelings weren't like they were. I said we need to try and get some of the spark back and that I wouldn't tolerate him making any big decisions which involve our time and money without my input.
I may be doing the wrong thing, he may not be sincere, but he seems so sincere and desperate to regain what we had that I don't think I could be happy single leaving it like this. However I am still worried that he could just be trying to keep his easy life, and if we cannot genuinely regain the closeness we had then I will end things.
I also told dp that the big holiday we had planned for this year won't be booked at end of Jan as planned and that I wanted to leave it till end of Feb to be sure we were on track.
I may seem weak to some of you, and I dont trust him fully yet, but I know that if he does let me down or even if he doesn't but I don't feel we can get 'us' back after a month or so of trying, I'll walk away with a clear mind knowing I gave the relationship my all. Only time will tell if he has real commitment to me...

No, no relate here to whoever asked that. Nothing like that unfortunately.

You're sounding a bit passive in all this right now OP. You seemed pretty set on a split. And pretty happy with the idea when he accepted it at first. I think you need to understand whether you wanted him to fight for you, and were giving him an ultimatum, or you wanted to end it and are now being swayed by his accusations of 'unfairness'. You don't have to be fair, you don't have to give him a chance, if you want out of the relationship, that's enough.

However, if you wanted him to fight, and you are convinced that he is taking it seriously, then good luck to you.

I think that him dropping out of his hobbies is a positive step op. For what it's worth dp and I (well, me)had a Wobble last year. Less serious than your situation but definitely the worst we've been in 19 years together. It was mainly about his working hours and housework but mainly I was feeling a bit taken for granted (two very young dc also put a lot of stress on us too). When we talked about it he was genuinely stunned and devastated that I had even contemplated leaving. We have both made changes and things are better than ever 6 months on. Whilst security in a relationship is vital I don't any sort of 'they aren't going anywhere' attitude either. Hopefully your dh will see what he has to lose?

You have to do what's right for you. Only you know this man, and so only you can make a judgement on whether he is being sincere here or not.

That said, if you are going to see how things go (and him cancelling a couple of groups is a good move), then I think you need to set a longer time frame, say six months as a min. Certainly before you book a holiday. He can change for a month, no problem. Maintaining it for six though? Well, that would show proper commitment, changing habits, and would presumable give you both time to regularly spend time in each others company/go out/be a couple again and to know if it is what you want.

You said he's paid lip service to your requests before for a short time. You need time to see if this change is real or just another quick show.

Does he seem sorry? Does he regret how much of your shared money he has spent on his hobbies? Does he regret not making the effort to engage with you and do stuff together more? How does he intend to address that?

Agatha makes some good points. I agree that 6 months is a good trial period before deciding whether to book a holiday.

Good luck OP, it sounds as if you want to give him another chance and I sincerely hope it works out. Just don't allow things to slip back to how they were. Stay mindful that he has conditioned you over the years to have very low expectations and you will need to keep reminding yourself to that raising them is normal, not unreasonable!

I don't think he has any love or respect for you OP. He did not fight for you even a tiny bit. I think he thought you would live together but a bit more separately. Probably thought he would be formally let off any sense of responsibility for your relationship. He's just bartering. He's not saying he loves you and shouldn't have let this happen. I completely understand that you might give it some time. I think he's completely cold-hearted and you know he won't change and you've had enough of it.

I nearly left 3 years ago over something that had been going on for 4 years. When DH had has epiphany (a week later) I said I'd commit to 2years for him to change and us to grow back together.

3 years on life is much better, I still struggle with the hurt he caused me. We are both different people now so it can never be how it was - Have been together 17 years

In short you need to take more like 12 months minimum to see if you can grow back together. I agree he needs to look at his values and work out why he doesn't want to spend time as a couple or family.

I don't think it's uncommon for the OH to not actually believe it's a real issue until you're instigating a split, previously they thought you would stop nagging and get over it!