How on earth can I keep us all safe?

[cherrycrumblecustard]

I was going to make this post about "my friend" but honestly, I think I just need to be open about me.

How do you cope? When you live with someone who

will hit (not hard and not enough to bruise but will hityou and also shove, thump things near you and so on)
won't take no for an answer for sex, pulls your pants down as you pull them up, insists, ejaculates when you don't want them to and have asked/begged/pleaded not to
controls EVERYTHING

I need out, but I am TERRIFIED of leaving my children, our children, with him

Honestly ... I feel like people,will just say I'm in denial. But the worst I've ever had is a smacked arse. Which is a stinger but not going to kill me.

Don't discount our experience and the statistics of women killed in the UK and elsewhere.

I understand you don't feel in danger. You probably aren't, just as long as you keep quiet and you keep him happy.

But you will be in danger when you start re-establishing your boundaries and when you decide to leave.

What do you think will happen if he hurts one of your children? How will you confront him? Do you think he'll allow you to defend them without consequences for you?

Hi! your post describes physical, sexual and emotional abuse. Regarding the latter - which always accompanies the former when they happen in the context of a relationship - it's very common for the abuser to oscillate between seeming to be nice and charming and then being really horrible and abusive. In fact that switching is about maintaining control and playing with you. You will be physically free of this relationship before you are mentally free - please don't wait until you feel "ready" to take the plunge. Healing emotionally will take time and can only happen when you are in a safe environment and away from him.

Regarding the issue of "proof" of abuse and keeping your children safe: you don't need to prove anything to a criminal standard here (although separately and in due course, with support, you can consider whether you want to report his violence and abuse to the police). It's well understood that women in your position are in a difficult situation because there are not usually direct witnesses to the abuse or other kinds of evidence, but, for example, an assessment from a credible domestic violence charity after meeting you could be enough. Please get his voice out of your head - people will believe and support you. An advisor from a domestic violence charity could talk you through lots of these questions.

It's not healthy or normal for it to be just the two of you. He likes it like that because it makes him feel more secure but my mum used to liken it to a little boy finding a butterfly and wanting to keep it safe just for himself so he holds it tightly in his hands and it gets crushed and broken.

Friends aren't really a bad or good influence when you're an adult. That's more of the kind of thing you say (as a parent) about a teenager's friends.

It's normal to want and need other friendships and connections outside the relationship, you're not being unreasonable for wanting that.

BTW, this thread will close after it receives 1000 messages. You might want to start a new one. New start for the new year?

He wouldn't Lwjeji, honestly. He wouldn't. I know he wouldn't. I've exaggerated I must have for people to think this. He's stricter than me but he wouldn't hurt them.

will hit (not hard and not enough to bruise but will hityou and also shove, thump things near you and so on)
won't take no for an answer for sex, pulls your pants down as you pull them up, insists, ejaculates when you don't want them to and have asked/begged/pleaded not to
controls EVERYTHING

This is what you said in your first post. This is violence.

I know making changes is very scary. I don't think staying is a great alternative though. You have talked about how many ways you are unhappy.

Yes new start sounds good :) it helps so much to talk and untangle. My head is a mess, again, I actually have a headache. I had sex with him last night and I liked it. So how can I if he's sexually abusive, he can't be, because I liked it?

I would feel that being used to satisfy his sexual urges is much more violent than a smack on the bum . But I think you know that already op. You have loads to think about and are now going round in circles. Perhaps have a rest from soul searching & read a book or something? Watch a Christmas movie and chill out for the night?

The children don't deserve to live in the same house and look up to a rapist. Which he is.

It isn't a matter or working through things as a couple. Not with an abuser.
Who does rape you. And it's not less rape because you've stopped struggling.
Who does his best to keep you financially dependent on him.
Who does his best to keep you isolated from other people.
Who hurts you on purpose.
Who emotionally blackmails you with your children for you to stay with him.
Who rapes you.

It's time to wake up. Not to make excuses for him or to minimise it.

He wouldn't Lwjeji, honestly. He wouldn't. I know he wouldn't. I've exaggerated I must have for people to think this. He's stricter than me but he wouldn't hurt them.

You simply dont know what he's capable of.

And my question is: how would you defend them?

I would defend them against anybody who tried to harm them. I love them so, so much. I'm not brilliant at a lot of things mums should do, but I do love the, so very much.

He would never hurt any child, much less his own.

I had sex with him last night and I liked it. So how can I if he's sexually abusive, he can't be, because I liked it?

Because you've compartmentalised it in your head.
You had sex with your loving husband.
Not the abuser that rapes you.
In your head. You probably welcomed feeling loved and close. Because we all want that feeling.
He's the man who both gives you that comfort and that rapes you, though.

You'll be ready to leave when your head only sees the rapist.
Or you realise that none of you is safe with him.

He would never hurt any child, much less his own.

He hurts you, though. It's not a big step to hurting them. Or putting them down. Or controlling their lives and thoughts. Or emotionally abusing them.

How would you defend them?

Does he put you down to them?

It's an awful thing, that doesn't bother me. I don't know why.

Lweji and Bertie, some others , you have shown kindness and patience beyond anything I deserve, you are amazing people.

A little bit, yeah he does. Rolls his eyes, acts like I'm creating a big drama when I'm just asking if we can call in at the shop on the way home for milk.

I know it's a he treats me badly so isn't, but he is a loving daddy. And probably most people think devoted husband.

You got used to it.

We all have our bottom line.

For me it was when DS was included in a threat. I ended up leaving home with nothing. When I had kicked him out of it previously and could simply have got a court order.
I'd be happy if other women didn't make the same mistakes.

I'd be happy if you got rid of him and were much better prepared than me.
You can only regret not leaving sooner. Really.

How he treats you in front of them is not healthy for them.

There's no such thing as a bad influence when you're an adult. He sees you as a child who isn't strong enough to know her own mind. And I bet your response is "but it's true", and even if it is, it's him that's kept you in that childlike mindset.

It's interesting that he demands perfection from your friends, but not from himself. Its not acceptable for them to do silly things like get drunk and let you down occasionally, but it's ok for him to insult, control and sexually assault you. I suspect that these friends who he thinks aren't good enough for you have never committed crimes against you like he has.

Enjoying having consensual sex with him doesn't mean you have to like it when he has sex with you against your will. Similarly, you may like being around him when he's kind to you, but it doesn't mean you have to like being around him when he's spiteful and controlling.

I feel like you sound the opposite of me, though.

When you come on the thread, even just in your words, you sound so strong, and calm. And authoritive - that's a compliment. I mean, I feel like I / the thread is in safe hands, somehow. Like you ask difficult questions and don't let me wriggle out of answering them but also incredibly calm and kind.

All those qualities are ones I just don't have. I am not clever, I am frequently moody and sulky and flippant, I don't think I'm a very good parent, I don't know what I'm doing, or who I am without him.

That was to Lweji but equally applies to alpha!

Cherry go and read my threads from seven, eight years ago. Hold on and I will find some for you. I have enough goodness in my life tonight - I can spare it. Honestly if I had to go through it I always think it might as well help somebody else! Thankful for mumsnet. If I can paraphrase Philip Pullman: "If there's any honey in my advice it's entirely down to the quality of the nectar I've drunk over the years here".

I was not always so calm and measured. It's a luxury which you get when you're not living with a generalised low level anxiety. When you're not second guessing yourself or trying to turn your brain in circles to explain away the inexcusable. When you're not treading water in stress, basically. I don't need to tread water any more because I know where the base is but you do need to take the scary leap under out of your depth to get to the shallow bit.

You come across as incredibly eloquent and intelligent. You clearly love your children a hell of a lot and desperately want to protect them. That makes you a good parent. The shit parents are the ones who don't care. Or arrogantly go around thinking they are perfect parents when they're not (I suspect your husband falls into this category...)

You're in a state of cognitive dissonance, trying to understand how someone who has been your saviour/protector can also be so emotionally damaging. That doesn't make you stupid. It just takes time to make sense of everything and work it all through in your head. If it was easy no one would ever be in an abusive relationship.

I screamed at the tablet today because it wouldn't load a recipe website fast enough and I wanted Christmas dinner to be perfect

I'm much more in control of my emotions and impulses and reactions knowing that DH also is, somehow.

Two months before I left:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/827140-Being-brave-and-posting-this-list-Also-need-help-with

I used to have a "Cherry" name as well :)

This was my longest one:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/763225-Deep-breath-Okay-Anyone-around-for-some-support-please

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/696624-I-don-39-t-know-if-I-have-PND-or

I did not have any long running threads because I mostly posted on group emotional abuse support threads rather than having my own, I felt that was safer and less spotlight on myself.

Hi, Cherry

I've been reading this thread from the very first day you posted and came back to it every day just to see that you keep returning and talking to everyone. I registered to post just because I totally see how the thought of taking any steps towards leaving has left you frozen and unsure of what to make of your situation.

I recall the way in particular you are referring to your sex life with your husband. You have said that he has sex without your consent and that you just give in for an easy life, for want of a better term. Whenever anyone questions you about it though, you say that it wasn't really rape, but you never outright say "no, he doesn't rape me". Minimising his behaviour is a coping mechanism I recognise well.

In no way can I say that my life mirrors yours at all, or indeed the lives and experiences shared by so many posters on this thread - but I did want to just share this with you.

As a young child, I was sexually abused by a family member. I remember it with absolute clarity and had a bizarre thought afterwards, which helped me disassociate with what had happened and minimise the situation. Every time it happened, my thoughts were repeatedly the same in an attempt, I suppose, to block out what was happening. I was never asking for it to happen, but I was hoping for it to be over quickly and accepting that it was going to happen regardless.

As I got into my 20s, I was rather promiscuous. Safe, but promiscuous. One incident stuck out in my head when I met a guy for a date and had no intention of sleeping with him, so took my standard precautionary measure of not shaving my legs. We ended up kissing a fair bit and getting a little bit hands on, when he then decided to grab me by the throat and force himself against me (over clothes, like simulating sex) and say "this is what you came here for really, isn't it?". It wasn't, I didn't ask for it but because I had been quite easygoing before, I felt embarrassed and was too scared to say anything. I managed to get away but I minimised that incident by telling myself that I deserved it for being a bit of a sleep around to that point.

I am now in my mid 30s and have had to have quite extensive therapy after years and years of minimising the above, without realising quite how much damage they had caused my mental health. I told myself that because I wasn't forced at knifepoint, I wasn't beaten or left for dead, that I should be thankful. Well, NO. I didn't deserve any of the shit that took place and through therapy, I realised that I had allowed myself to forget the worst of it in order to convince myself that things weren't so bad.

Cherry, please know that even if your husband isn't staring at you in a maniacal fashion, isn't clawing at you, swearing at you, leaving you in a ditch or being violent in bed, he is still raping you. By constantly comparing your experience with that of other people, you are further lowering your self worth. You have told yourself many times that it's really not so bad as a way of coping - because you subconsciously realised that it's easier to put up with your husband than challenge him. It's a survival tactic. But you have obviously doubted this, which is why you posted on here. Please believe in your worth like so many other posters do.

I don't have a controlling husband to deal with. I am not closed off from family and friends. I am incredibly lucky. I still went through what I went through and am still learning to cope. You have been worn down to the point of defending your husband whenever posters question anything. I did similar in my own head when questioning myself over my bad experiences and stuck up for my attackers in a weird way because I didn't want to admit to myself that I possibly could have saved myself from being in that posistion - when I know full well now that I did nothing wrong, nothing to deserve what I went through and I am not at all damaged/broken/not good enough.

Please keep talking on here and please keep safe. Please believe that you DO matter, that your children deserve to have a mum who doesn't get treated the way that you do. I am not saying that you are a bad role model - you come across as a very fierce and loving mother. But please, please allow yourself the kindness of a better life. Don't resign yourself to a life with a rapist. Rape is rape, no matter how quickly it's over, how little struggle there is or if he pecks you on the cheek afterwards. However a good father he may portray himself, he's still a rapist. Your children deserve a better parental figure than that and they can have that in you.