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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh thread 4

913 replies

Lilacpink40 · 13/12/2016 21:15

Hi allSmile

OP posts:
pudding21 · 09/02/2017 11:56

I don't think there is WA here, I can try find out. I need to get some head space, get him out of my space and then decide whats best for everyone. I in no way want to stop him having access to the kids, I don't fear for them as such. He does love them, he needs help. I will try and help him, while maintaining a distance.

Fuck, this is so difficult.

ontheball75 · 09/02/2017 13:18

Sorry to see you on this thread pudding

You seem well organised, already having a house to move into. Hopefully your eldest will come to accept it in time and the boys will get into the new routine once things have settled a little for you all.

EmilyRosanne · 09/02/2017 18:32

Hi pudding!
That is awful forcing you into telling the DC and painting himself the victim infront of them. It just shows you that you are doing the right thing in leaving though and shows the immaturity! I hope you are doing okay and settle into your new home as soon as possible Smile

I have had an uneventful (and lovely) few days WN free, no contact really from him bar a few 'how did DC sleep' to which I just replied 'fine' Grin

I do have a sinking feeling though as we approach the weekend and will have to see him. It's like me and DC have a lovely life together then reality hits that he is always there in the background Sad

nicenewdusters · 09/02/2017 20:10

Hi Pudding Have just read your posts. The main thing I wanted to say was that last night will not screw up your dc's lives forever. It would have been hard, upsetting and unsettling. But, given the news you had to give them, it couldn't really be any other way. If it helps, the following was my "breaking the news" situation nearly 2 years ago, the dc then were 10 and 8.

We agreed to tell them together, but my dd overheard something and saw our distress and kept saying to me "Are you breaking up?" I eventually said yes, and then my ex came into the room. He was upset it had happened like that, but sometimes life can't be choreographed, as you saw yesterday.

I then did all the talking, him occasionally agreeing or nodding. I asked if he wanted to say anything - you'll recognise this Pudding ! He asked the kids not to tell their friends or anybody else. I didn't say anything as I knew that was not in his control, and that the next day I would be speaking to their teachers. He said nothing else.

Partly I think he hoped it wouldn't actually happen, and if it wasn't "out there" it wasn't real. But ultimately he was just thinking of himself.

The first night he came back after he left I suggested he go before they went to bed. But no, he didn't do this, and I had to sit and listen to my tired, emotional son crying and saying please don't go daddy. He wouldn't go, just stayed in the hallway whilst my son was in bits. He asked sarcastically for some help from me. I had to sit there and hold onto my son whilst he went. I think he thought he'd shock me into seeing sense. I just saw a very selfish, childish man.

Now? My dc are doing well. They are in a good routine of seeing their dad regularly, including 2 sleepovers a week. But I have dictated the pace, I know and understand them better than he does. I pretty much say when/where etc, and most of the time it runs along ok.

Teabay used an excellent phrase earlier "giving them his emotions to hold" . There's a lot I don't have to complain about with my ex, but this is exactly what he does. He's hurting so wants the dc to know. He feels victimised so want the dc to see he's a victim, and so on.

You definitely need to call the shots as regards access. You will know what is best. He can cry, complain and whinge all he likes. He's an adult so will have to get on with it, as you are. The dc come first, and you'll be the one to put them there.

As regards the risk to your safety. I've read many times on here that putting their hands around their partner's throat is the biggest red flag as regards serious risk of further violence. Do whatever you need to do to keep you and the dc safe. Even if it contradicts earlier agreements or what you'd like to do or agreed plans. If someone is unpredictable you need to be flexible in how you react.

I promise you that you will get through this, you're in the eye of the storm right now. I remember the panic, the tears, the not being able to breathe, days when my heart literally hurt. But it does lessen, it recedes, time moves on. It's not easy, but if the decision to leave was the right one you end up in a better place.

nicenewdusters · 09/02/2017 21:03

Apologies for epic post - long even by my standards !!

Natsku · 10/02/2017 07:50

One more day Pudding one more day

Natsku · 10/02/2017 14:47

I'm in a newspaper again, broadsheet this time Grin just one quote though, they left out the bit where I said the US Judicial system is like a playground bully with its plea deals - "Give me your lunch money or I'll beat you up" so disappointed in that. Its not online though, just in the paper version.

pudding21 · 10/02/2017 16:54

Hi, thanks for the lovely replies and concern. I haven't had time to reply them all as today I am shifting stuff between the houses and building flat pack furniture. All by myself. Inner warrior channeled. Things are calm, last night we talked a bit, and even managed a bit of a joke. I appreciate for him it did seem like a shell shock so I am cutting him a bit of slack. Ive remained firm though and told him he isn't going to change my mind and I cannot tell him what lies in the future.
Kids have been amazing, I showed them the house last night and they love it. Its only about a 1/3 of the size of our home, but its nice. The youngest was disappointed we weren't staying yesterday. The eldest has been a darling.
I will reply to everyone individually tomorrow when I can, but just wanted to drop in and say I am OK and safe smile
Take care and thanks again

Natsku · 10/02/2017 17:56

Glad you are ok and safe Pudding just one more night to go.

Well ex has expressly forbidden any treatment for DD at the psychiatric clinic so need to call there on Monday and find out what I need to do next to get that overruled. He also called me a fucking idiot many many times in a row on the phone tonight, just glad I had turned the speaker off before he did that so DD didn't hear.

nicenewdusters · 10/02/2017 19:47

Glad you're getting sorted Pudding and that you were able to have a chat with your ex. I love the inner warrior comment.

Nats Such a shame you didn't get your comment in about the US Judicial system. Nice to see your brother's case is getting coverage though. Sorry you had to hear all that from your ex. I know you're probably used to it but it must be hard to hear still.

Natsku · 10/02/2017 21:58

Yeah quite used to it but its still not pleasant to hear.

Any news from HJM?

VaVaBroom · 10/02/2017 22:46

Hello, another person v grateful for this thread! Wondered if anyone had experience of this - my ex has convinced himself that my lovely 10 year old son is 'ill' and is brainwashing my son into thinking it too. Worse, he has been constantly telling my son that I have "let him become ill" and don't care about him.

This all started a few years ago when ex got together with a nutritionist - they've recently split up - and they did a set of 'tests' that supposedly showed he was lacking all sorts of stuff and needed a multitude of pills to remedy it. I saw no evidence of this in my son's health. The fact that my son was always ill at theirs, not mine showed me that there had to be a psychological element, new family, girl his age, etc, but of course I also took him to the Doctors, just to check, and they did tests but nothing. The irony is that I've always been one to watch my son's diet - organic, gluten-free, few sweets... Like most children he could eat more greens etc but he doesn't need treatment!

I don't want to stuff my son with supplements he doesn't need, I think it's incredibly damaging to bring a child up to think they're ill when they're not. I can counteract ex's views as best I can with my own actions but what I don't know how to deal with is my son being brainwashed into believing his mother is making him ill and doesn't care about him. Like all narcs, ex thinks only he is right and has no qualms about continually badmouthing his son's mother.

Gently tried to explain to my son that it's not true but ex is very persuasive and son beginning to believe him. I can also see how hurtful it is for him to have parents who he knows don't get on so don't want to push too much. Have tried putting my point of view in previous emails to ex but realised that got nowhere so have as little communication as possible now. Felt like sending an outraged email to him but have written to you all instead!

nicenewdusters · 10/02/2017 23:57

Hi VaVa What an extraordinary thing for your ex to be doing, I can't quite get my head round it. One thought that did occur to me. Could you ask your son if, as his dad says, you are making him ill, why isn't he ever ill at your house. Surely if you're the cause then he should be ill with you. Also, what exactly are you supposed to be doing (or not doing) to your son?

Could you call your ex's bluff? I'm thinking make a GP appointment, tell ex he needs to attend, and then ask him to say in front of the GP (and your ds) what is allegedly wrong with your ds, and what he thinks the cause is ? I know that means you have to see and speak to him, but lesser of two evils and all that?

Nats No word from HJM, just a wave to me as I drove past the other day. Nothing more I can (or will) do, it's in the lap of the gods!

VaVaBroom · 11/02/2017 09:22

Thanks dusters, good points you raise: have tried to pose question to son before and he will try and repeat something ex has said or is really uncomfortable about discussing the whole thing. My 'crime' according to ex is not doing exactly what he says and not ignoring my own views and opinions in favour of his own about son's health. He also wants me to give loads of vitamin/mineral supplements and stuff to my son -13 at one point!- which thankfully he seems to have cut down on as son reported sometimes throwing up from taking so many. He dismissed hospital tests as rubbish, his results were from a more high-tech place apparently and conventional GP "doesn't know anything" so he wouldn't go. (On other hand could see GP thought I was neurotic, timewasting parent!)

Ah well, can only keep doing my best for my son I think.

Have been following your story and rooting for you with HJM!

Glad you have found some equilibrium pudding and wishing you and everyone well for the weekend.

Natsku · 11/02/2017 10:21

Sounds like your ex has found a way to try and control you - through your son's health and trying to make you do things his way 'otherwise you're making him ill'. I'd just keep repeating to him that if son is ill then lets take him to the GP, if you don't want to take him to the GP then you don't think he is ill so fuck off (maybe without the fuck off at the end Grin but make it clear that you are not going to give supplements without medical advice from your son's GP)

EmilyRosanne · 11/02/2017 11:49

Good luck today with the move pudding!

VaVa he sounds completely insane?! Just keep your distance and say you will follow medical advice from professionals Hmm

I just need to rant before I explode and text WN. must resist the urge he is convinced he earns nothing (self employed) and can't afford anything in child maintenance. He says hopefully it picks up blah blah. He knows I am still paying off bills back from when he was here and not paying enough. I know if I went through CSA that he would be able to easily minimise and pay nothing and it would make him more hostile towards me. He picked up DC this morning with a whole load of new things he has bought himself. These things (clothes/bag/accessories etc.) are all of an semi expensive label and would have easily cost in excess of £100. I was so angry I couldn't resist saying oh bought yourself a new wardrobe did you.. I'm so pissed he can afford that on himself when I am struggling to make ends meet on my own on maternity pay with two DC and am still wearing my maternity clothes as all my wages go towards them! Angry

pudding21 · 11/02/2017 12:25

Hi, just a quickie from me as I am in between car loads. Thanks for the messages of support, I am ok, I am still moving and pushing on despite please, bagging and huge meltdowns from him. He is being quite nice, helped me loading the car, telling me to take stuff (telling........) but I am firmly in control of everything at the moment.

I will try and post later, and read the whole thread when the boys are asleep and I have a glass of vino in hand in my sanctuary.

This site has been amazing for advice and support and gave me a little nudge in the direction I was convinced was right.

Standing firm, holding my head up (and a few tears in between).

nicenewdusters · 12/02/2017 12:42

Good luck Pudding. Such a great step forward for you today, but of course hard, have a good old sniffle now and then. You sound very strong and determined. I think knowing something is right (even if it's really difficult to do) gives you great strength.

VaVa Completely agree with Nats advice, with bells on ! I would think definitely a controlling tactic, and using the one thing he knows will hurt you the most, your dc. There have been many reports in the past about how Vitamin supplements are next to useless for most people. Perhaps you could email him a few? He won't listen, but at least he'll see that you know what a load of old rubbish it is. (Thanks for cheering me from the sidelines with Mr HJM) Smile

Oh Emily that gave me the rage just reading your post. I would be fuming just as you are. I don't know what the answer is. I can see why you don't want to involve the CSA. The spiteful part of me thinks text him. Maybe something like, don't turn up here in your new clothes to be with your dc, whom I support 100% as apparently you're broke. From now on I expect you to pay £X into my account every week. When I have received the first payment you can collect the dc as usual. If you don't like it take me to court. Oh no you can't can you, you haven't got any money. (tongue sticking out emoji !)

On a very minor and side point, have finally bought a new Duster Mobile! It's fun and impractical ! It may spark off another "give me the money" episode with my ex, but hey ho. It's exciting, another new start, but also a bit sad, as the old car was "ours" (although apparently after we split it became "his" - not sure what law ex was quoting there !!)

VaVaBroom · 12/02/2017 18:34

Yes, think you're spot on Natsku - and made me Smile.

Has crossed my mind Emily that he's mentally ill... Feel for you with financial situation, I know that feeling of impotent rage. I'm lucky that mine pays maintenance but feel slightly at his mercy as he too is self-employed and adept at proving he doesn't earn anything - and not above withholding or altering amount to get what he wants.

Congratulations on the move pudding. Like dusters says, a great step and hopefully the first of many.

Loving the sound of the Duster Mobile! Here's to something 'fun and impractical' for us all!

Natsku · 12/02/2017 20:48

Congrats on the move Pudding you did it!

Yay a new duster mobile!!

nicenewdusters · 12/02/2017 21:04

Perhaps we'll swing by our mate Piers' house in it Nats Wink

FeelTheNoise · 12/02/2017 22:07

Hi everyone, I'm as usual sorry for being quiet of late. It's hard to know how to update and engage without identifying details coming out. Ahh good old paranoia eh?
pudding I hope your move is going really well x
That'll be us in a few days: our permanent home! At last! Yippee!! Unfortunately I won't be loading the car, it died. It bloody died within days of our move. Can't believe it! It might be feasible to repair it, it probably won't 😒
However the police are hopefully about to act! It's really odd that with everything WN did to us, he could be arrested for something relatively minor, but his behaviour being recognised as criminal is really significant, and I hope it happens.

nicenewdusters · 13/02/2017 00:24

That all sounds pretty heavy FeeltheNoise . Glad to hear you are about to move somewhere permanent, that must be a massive relief. What is it with cars and this thread!? That's such a pain, hope it can be fixed. I also hope you have some real life support. Flowers

FeelTheNoise · 13/02/2017 09:11

RL support is difficult to create when you're miles from home. I do miss my friends

pudding21 · 13/02/2017 11:03

Morning.

nicenewdusters: thank you so much for the reassurance about the boys and finding out. Its very helpful to know your kids are good and not emotionally destroyed by the episode you mention!!

Feelthenoise: be prepared to go through the ringer with emotions, but hey we have already done that for a long time, so you will cope. I must be exhausted as I keep doing sill y things and have hardly had any sleep, but I feel a strong resolve to sort things out and move on with normal life. I'm back to work today. To think only a week ago I had made my decision, and now I already feel like I have my OWN home.

Thanks for all the lovely well wishes. So, Saturday was really tough, I felt very emotional and felt like I was terribly guilty for breaking the family up. Yesterday I was much better and much more positive. I feel in control, everything is good. Its funny that almost everything I do, I realise I check myself before I do it because he might have got angry, or complain or nag, or whatever. Its quite liberating to feel like once again I am making my own decisions. The boys have been absolutely amazing. Yesterday we had to go to the house to pick a couple of things off, they just went in and got on with it. And when we left it was fine too.

So advice please, to be able to leave with as little stress as possible I didn't say to him it was totally OVER. I told him I need space, I want to be apart, i need time to think things through and that I don't know what the next few months hold. I told him I cannot promise anything. He is being very very civil and has suprised me. He even spoke to his Narc mother who was finally in 45 years supportive of her son (she told him she could see it coming as she was staying with us in Jan). I am 99.9% sure i will NOT go back, but should I tell him that now? Or wait until he sorts himself out and things settle with the boys? I want to have a relationship with him on a friendship, my terms level. I spent 21 years with him. I don't hate him, I still have love for him, I still worry about him. Its too late for us to recreate anything as I know if he truely loved me like he says he did he wouldn't have spent the last years destroying me. I am so mixed in my emotions with him, but above all my nature is kindness, but I know I need to protect my heart and the boys as much as possible.

I know that when the time comes and I have to tell him, at least I have my own space and I won't have to listen to him sobbing. I'm thinking as close to Gwynnie and Chris Martin as possible (I know, I know, might be unrealistic, but I'd be happy to go for dinner with him etc so long as he isn't fucking with my head! You know in between these episodes we were good :()

Thanks in advance :)