My partner is damaging his daughter's mind, body and soul (follow on thread)

[RedStripeLassie]

A follow on from my dp doesn't look after his mind, body or soul (Offreds words for the title)
I understand people's anger, sadness and frustration at the situation I'm putting dd in but would appreciate further help as I feel I'm getting somewhere and don't want to lose the momentum and ignore everything.
Thanks to everyone that took time posting and don't feel like you have to again if you feel it's not going anywhere or its falling on deaf ears.

OP I'm really worried about you, this could go very badly. You say he's not pleasant before he's had a splif, if he gets aggressive do not be afraid to call the police. These things can escalate so quickly. He's going to be resentful and angry. Stay safe.

And just to add, you live in a block of flats. If he gets very angry and starts shouting or smashing stuff there is a very good chance someone will call the police. That will trigger safeguarding as a matter of course, even without the presence of drugs. I understand you saying that it is a process which takes time, but you don't have that luxury.

Also, if you suspect that what I'm saying could be true and he might get violent/aggressive I want you to really, really think that through. Is it worth the risk?

If I thought he could get violent it wouldn't be worth the risk. i may be a selfish, inadequate parent but I would not put dd in physical danger.

Pleas keep yourself and your daughter safe. Can you move a few things and take her passport etc and stash them in a safe place? I think you need to be ready to take off. My concern is if you decide to leave and he finds out he could be violent to you/snatch her or smash the place up. Please plan this carefully.
And does he have your passwords? Any chance he can see this thread? That could put you in danger.

It's all on my phone and he doesn't have my password. He isn't the prying or jealous sort at all.

Red, you surely know he could get violent. He has been violent in your flat before and he has a history of violence against people. The narrative goes 'I know I hit people in the past but i would never be violent with you', 'I just smashed the wall, I didn't hit you' 'I just pushed you, I didn't hit you, it was just an accident' 'I just slapped you, I didn't punch you, you know how hard this is for me you shouldn't wind me up' 'I strangled you but you are fine why is there a problem?!' etc and you repeat those excuses and minimisations to WA in turn.

He is an addict. You are asking him to give up several addictions. Remember the list of concerns? He has several addictions and a history of violence...

There is a significant risk of physical/sexual violence I would say. I don't think knowing him IRL is an advantage when assessing that either. Plus being violent etc is the perfect thing to do to maintain his addiction if he follows it up with 'I'm so so sorry baby, see, this is why I need the weed'

msStrictly

I have finally seen the light on this! I couldn't work out why I was getting so frustrated (yeah I know, by something online) but it was hope wasn't it... so I am now in the shoes of Red, and I suppose this recreation then triggers all of my feelings of frustration and helplessness that I feel towards my own mother for the exact same behaviours.

I do not have a very healthy relationship with my mother because I feel like her life revolves around keeping her own feelings safe - no matter what the cost to others around her. She will go to the ends of the earth to avoid rocking the boat or making things Bette and as our personalities are so different and I am 'a bull in a China shop' as she likes to see it (no, in just an adult who is proactive). I often see her whole life as what I would think is a martyr - needing and wanting to be needed but more than that, the hero of her own story. I think i should have been the more important story, not mums story or dads story but me. And that I was a selfish child for thinking that way. They still think I am selfish for what I wish I had. Because 'children are starving in Africa!'

My childhood was stolen by these people, in small, tiny ways that culminated into 18 years of feeling like I didn't matter. There was violence as I got older and more confrontational - not all kids will adopt their mothers timid approach BTW, and I certainly did not.

i may be a selfish, inadequate parent but I would not put dd in physical danger

You are!! Every day you stay in this frightening situation you place yourself and your dd in both physical and emotional danger.

If you really, truly care about your dd's immediate welfare and future quality of life, you would put measures in place to leave today!!

He was a typical, stupid young man who always seemed to end up in a scrap with other men. He has never laid a finger on me and dd and I wouldn't allow it ever. A slap and it would be over. No second chances.

Red, my father was pretty respectable but there was violence. Towards children not other adults. Be very careful. I am outing myself maybe - who knows but one way he managed to get my mum to keep quiet was the threat that he could be more violent if he wanted to

Again. I don't think that's typical. How many lads did you know growing up? The troubled lads and girls get in fights. The majority of kids have never fought physically in their life.
It is not something typical lads go out and get up to
Massive stereotype. Violent people like fighting. Non violent people don't have violent teenage pasts

It is not anymore typical to get in scraps than it is to smoke a joint daily.

he won't stop for a day let alone 5. he's manoeuvred you into a position where anything you say will be nagging and a reason why he needs a drink or a smoke.

I grew up with alcoholic parents. Christmas was terrifying. I'm an alcoholic myself who quit drinking a couple of years ago after losing everything.

anyway. my point is that I haven't spoken to my mother in 10 years because she failed so spectacularly to keep me safe.

stop equivocating. this isn't about you or him or your disastrous relationship. it's your daughter that you are failing. wake up.

My husband has two brothers, I have two brothers, none of the five of them has a history of violence, as young, or now middle-aged, men. They didn't get into 'scraps' - it's not normal

Does anyone notice the parallel between this thread and RedLassie's situation? That posters are staying here hoping you'll change, OP, and you're giving them crumbs of that hope every now and again with promises, and small signs that you're rethinking ... only to realise that nothing much has changed at all?

Fair point. That said, I don't think this is a complete parallel. red is in an abusive situation which is affecting her daughter, our lives are not affected at all apart from frustration which we can choose to walk away from. Plus, it's only been, what, a month since red first posted?

It's often frustrating, repetitive and cyclical to engage or work with someone trying to extract themselves from an abusive situation, but in general, stopping engagement with that person if they fail to live up to your expectations is the opposite of helpful. I think every authority on working with women in situations of abuse recommends that people have patience and avoid doing the abuser's work for him by pressuring or hectoring the woman or further cutting off her outside relationships, no?

And to be quite fair he has been smoking and drinking longer than he has known you. You really don't know he is underneath his addiction or how he will respond to going 5 days without. He has already told you that he thinks it is medicine that stops him from not functioning. Even without the history of violence all bets are off.

Presumably you read my worries about CSM - the very same things apply to your H.

red I have NCed for this thread, for mine and my DCs' privacy as I am ashamed of this in RL. I've read both your threads, I think I was on the playground one.

You can see from my name that I know what your DH is like. I would have read this thread ten years ago and thought along the lines of "all these kind but judgey people, bet they have a glass of two or wine whilst lecturing me about spliffs" and "naice Boden wearing mummies, probably in their 40s and don't know people who smoke, it is normal life no matter what they say" etc etc.

DH and I used to use cannabis recreationally, I had used harder stuff in the past but gave it up when the DC were born. Some of my family and DH's family smoked too, big house and ponies family and the opposite end of the social scale too, so all "walks of life". I worked in a professional job, DC at nursery, never any problems or issues.

We would have a few joints (and glasses of wine) every night. It slowly crept up more so for me than DH to a bottle of wine a night (like a lot of MNers I'm sure) and skunk. I justified this the same way your DH does, you don't need to hear me say it all!

Then one sunny afternoon, a friend of mine and I were skinning up in my back garden as the DC played on their seesaw/sand pit etc. DD came and sat next to us at the table, picked up some rizlas and started miming skinning up, you know, licking the papers, rolling up. She was four. My friend thought it was "so cute" and "funny" but I felt sick. I felt awful. It wasn't the thought of what if she does it at school etc, it was my lovely child thinking this was a funny thing to do. I thought I was a shit mother and a shit role model.

So I stopped (the weed not wine), DH stopped too. It was hard, I'm not going to lie. Cold turkey, ate a SHIT load of food and drank lots of wine. This was in 2004. Haven't had a smoke since. I stopped drinking alcohol in 2012.

I won't say I'm a better parent as I don't think I was even a "good" parent back then. I think I was a selfish irresponsible dick, frankly. And my DC weren't short of money, I would feel even worse if I'm sure if I had been doing what your DH is and smoking money that should be spent on your DC.

My DC are teenagers now and believe me, I am so fucking glad I set them a better role model especially now they've started to navigate the alcohol and drugs stuff. I cant even explain how glad I feel.

My DC know I have used and will answer any questions they have. I think I have a good relationship with them (as good as any teenage parent relationship is!) Their friends sometimes talk to me too.

I've said all this so you know that I know what the fuck I'm talking about. Your DH may well have been a good kind man and father in the past, but he isn't now, and I think you know this. I'm not going to slate him. But right now he is incapable of putting your DD first. The only person who can do this is you. You have to do this. You have to deal with her life as it is today and make it better for her. You understand this and you have the ability to do this (unlike your DH). If you don't use that ability you are failing her and not being the best mother you can be.

I can, hopefully without patronising you, tell you that with 100% certainty, you are going to feel immense guilt in the future (more than the usual parent guilt!). For your own sake, as well as your DDs, take actual active steps to deal with this and get your DD out of this situation. Your DH is an adult, I know you feel a responsibility to him and that you love him, but you have to love your DD more and get her out and hope that your DH as an adult can do the same.

If you can't do this now, I am sorry, I know it's hard, but you would be better ringing social services and let them take the action which is best for your DD.

Maybe try and imagine that you are in a raft which is slowly sinking, with your DP and DD. Someone comes along with a strong raft but your DH refuses to leave, he doesn't think your raft will sink. It's afloat right now, more water is coming in but he says it'll be fine. Would you stay with your DH and make your dd stay? I think as a good mother, you would make sure your DD goes onto the strong raft. Hopefully you would choose to go with her.

Honestly your raft is sinking right now but you have the power to rescue your DD, and yourself. I really hope you can do it, but if you don't think you can please ring SS and explain and let them take action. I'm sorry, five days clean and £50 gifts isn't doing anything, it's meaningless, honestly, your DH is abusing your DD bringing her up like this and you are complicit if you don't take proper meaningful action.

I sincerely hope you and your DD can make use of all the advice on this thread and have a happy secure life.

Red, another thing that might happen with those five days is that you yourself find a reason to call it off. I see you saying that this will really let you see the truth of how dependent he is on his various substances. But the part of you that doesn't want to face up to the reality of his addiction, and doesn't want to have to make a decision to leave, is going to get scared by that.

So watch out for that in yourself. If you find yourself thinking "ah, this isn't a good time, we'll reschedule" or "I just can't face it now, I'll wait" or "he did this minor thing that gave me a scrap of hope he can change, so there's no need for him to do this after all!" - call yourself on it.

(and to be honest I think you should call off this 5-day test anyway - I don't think it's safe for you or DD, and I don't think it's going to tell you anything you don't already know about his addiction. But if you tell yourself that you can't leave without doing this first, your brain is going to start finding reasons for you to put it off and put it off and put it off so you never have to actually leave.)

He wanted 5 days starting from Monday so he wouldn't have to do a weekend.

As well as the potential excuses PP have given, I'd also be prepared for him to last the 5 days, restart again next Friday night or Saturday and then use this 5 days as an excuse to never stop again ie. 'see I'm not addicted, I can stop whenever I want, what is your problem?'.

From reading your posts I do get the impression he is indifferent to your DD. Do you think he loves her? She is definitely in second place behind his addictions and will come to realise this as she gets older. She'll have to deal with this in some way.

myusernameismyusername - I think those of us more finely attuned to abuse can feel this very strongly, and I often wonder how much a part of me seeks this out on threads like this, at which time it's always best to step away. Good on you for having the insight to see that it was never you who was the cause of your parents' own dysfunction.

Yes, true, sarahnova - I agree my post lacked empathy in that respect. I'll add, however, that this is a forum, not a therapeutic situation, and so the atmosphere can become volatile and unable to hold a person as they are empowered to make different choices. My post in part was to alert people to that dynamic, and in part to vent my own frustration, granted.

Agree with sittingaround

If he DID manage the 5 days, which to be perfectly honest I doubt, he'd use those 5 days as an excuse when he starts doing it again

I actually think the 5 day test is pointless, so what if he does it? I don't think he'll decide never to go back to it.

In fact no, I just don't see why you carry on with this full stop

It's not unusual for members of my family to puke or make twats of themselves at Xmas (or whenever). Looks normal to me.

But the kicker is - they're alcoholics. It's only when I go and find my mum passed out on the floor with a friend (who actually covers his shock pretty well) that it becomes clear.

Soon fades from mind again. But it's the truth.