I caught DH out tonight

[CarrieMayBe]

There's such a long back story to our marriage - been together just over 20yrs, married for 13.5yrs. 4 DCs.

Things been rocky for a number of years and we did actually split for 7 months just over 3yrs ago. During that time separated I got myself lots of help for the PND that I'd been suffering from for years and became a new person. DH evaluated himself too and said he could see his faults and promised to work on them if there was a chance of us getting back together. Also, our youngest daughter who was 5 at the time really struggled to cope with our split. She was hysterical whenever DH dropped her back home after his weekend of having the DCs, to the point he literally had to drag her out of his house and into mine. I tried to get her counselling but neither the school or the GP could arrange it, lack of services in our area apparently.

Anyway, the guilt over how it was affecting DD coupled with the fact that our time apart had made us realise that we did indeed have something good worth trying again for meant we gave our marriage another shot.

DH moved back in, things were really good for a few months but then they began to slip. DH started drinking heavily again (always a big issue between us) blaming the stress of work as usual. We totally by accident ended up seeing a house to buy that we fell head over heels in love with. We weren't looking to move even but decided it would be a fresh start and a forever home for us. The purchase was far from plain sailing due to various legal issues and to cut a long story short we only moved in in May this year, 14 months after actually buying it. The legal issues still haven't been resolved and we are under huge financial strain because of it. DH is self employed and I'm a SAHM so the pressure to keep up with the horrendous costs is all on him. I totally understand this and have been fully supportive.

Due to the stress of the past 2yrs things have become bad between us again. We don't have sex, we barely talk and although we have periods of things being good between us most of the time we just co-exist in the same house. It can be horrible and so lonely. DH doesn't do emotions or affection in any shape or form, he can with the kids but not me. He accepts this as a fault of his and claims that's just who he is. It leads to resentment on my part and I find it hard to be physically attracted to someone who makes no effort with me at other times.

For the past few weeks I've noticed he's been careful with his phone. Little things like if it's on charge in the kitchen for example, a room that I'm usually in, he will put it on flight mode so new messages can't come in. I can hear it buzzing at other times to show he has a message and he hates texting, really uses it as a last resort kind of communication. I've suspected he's talking to another woman. Tonight he fell asleep whilst putting youngest DC to bed and I went to wake him up. I saw his phone on the side and picked it up to give to him and as I moved it the screen lit up and there was a message - I couldn't see what it said but there were lots of ..... in the paragraph and emoticons. Believe me, none of his mates would send a message with content like that, not their style at all.

So I pulled him up on it, told him I knew it was from a woman and, to cut a very long night indeed short, I have finally had most of the truth out of him. Yes he's been in contact with a woman he met through work. It's been going on 6 months. They've had sex at least once that I know of (he's still not telling me everything I'm sure, he says he doesn't want to keep hurting me but the not knowing is making it harder) which he admitted happened when he'd spent a night at a hotel with her.

I'm devastated. He keeps telling me our marriage was all but over, I've withheld sex from him so what did I expect, he was weak and couldn't help it...all the standard stuff. I've been out for a drive on my own where I spent an hour driving down dark country lanes screaming at the top of my lungs that I hate him and he's a cunt. I've cried til I have no tears left. I haven't slept at all. I just don't know what to do now. We both promised all our DC that we'd never put them through a split again, and now we will. I know we're over, but I don't want us to be. I know our marriage was in serious trouble, I suggested going to relate during the summer but he brushed it off...of course he was shagging her at that point. He says he doesn't want to be with her, she's married too (pair of charmers aren't they?). I was hoping that after getting the shit with the house sorted next year we could concentrate our efforts on getting us back on track, I've already booked a break away for just the two of us next summer. Not enough I know but the intention is there, just mixed up in all the stress I suppose. I know I'm not blameless in this and have accepted that when talking with him tonight although I still don't think it excuses what he's done. I know DD will never cope with this break up. Added to that we still are living in a house we legally aren't allowed to live in.

Sorry this is so long and probably incoherent. I don't want to drip feed though if I can help it.

What a fucking mess. Please hold my hand.

[CarrieMayBe]

I know, I'm acting like a mad woman aren't I? He swears he hasn't deleted them, I just can't see how they've disappeared. There are ones from heifer that date still on there and ones from after. Just these ones missing. The ones that cover the first time he had sex with her, which was the night he told me he was out with mates but took her out instead. Why, out of hundreds of messages going back months on end, are the ones most likely to shed some light on what exactly we said between each other at the point the only ones missing?

[CarrieMayBe]

Before not heifer!!

[PurpleThursday]

It is a bit odd. Your spider senses could be right.

But... as an example... my XH was a terrible liar, I never knew which way was up. I discovered many lies about money etc. At one point I was utterly convinced he must have a child with someone else. CONVINCED. From comments from his mother like 'your marriage will never work without honesty' to money disappearing and debts he ran up and lied about over and over . I honestly put 2 and 2 together and came up with 7.

It's understandable, you have been through a hell of a shock. But I'm not sure where you go from here because the trust isn't going to just reappear on it's own.

Who can you talk to? His mum? Or a best friend? You need to get some of these emotions out. Hope we help a little here.

[Pollyanna9]

OP did you say that it's better he's at home with you because 'you can keep an eye on him and know if he's contacting the OW or not'? Did I read that right (not the exact words, I've just written the jist of what I think I read).

But you've been living with him and you didn't know he'd been having an affair so I don't think him being there will work. Already you're wanting to check his phone and so on - that distrusting atmosphere is what you would have at all times if you let him stay.

There needs to be a significant event happen to him ie he is made to leave the marital home so that he realises that he's crossed a massive line. If he's allowed to stay you're not showing how incredibly significant an event it was that he's had an affair and that translates into effectively you saying 'it's ok, I don't mind you had an affair'!

He should be out of the house and the very bare minimum that would enable him to return would be once he's completed a 12 step programme at Alcoholics Anonymous as the very first starting point and not before. I think you'd be looking at a good 3-6 months split to give him time to work on himself and for you to see how you'd feel if he wasn't there. It's going to be psychologically and emotionally very very wearing while you have him in the house entertaining ideas of full reconciliation when he's got issues to resolve of his own and you don't trust him. Words, words, words is what he's giving you but you'll need actions. Clear, definite, selfless actions.

I'm SO sorry to hear what you're going through. It's absolutely awful.

[CarrieMayBe]

Yes Polly I did say that id rather he was here. I know I didn't know when he was having the affair but I've suspected for a long, long while. I knew he'd immediately shut down when confronted - which he did - but because I'd finally seen a message flash up on his screen he couldn't lie his way out of it. I can't bear the thought of not knowing what he's doing because if he moved out, he'd still say he wanted us to reconcile because he desperately doesn't want to leave his children. He could, and would, have no qualms about coming back and continuing his affair I fear.

He says he feels sick today, he admits he has no right to complain how all this is making him feel and I told him bloody right! Whatever he's feeling won't be even a 10th of how he's made me feel so he won't be getting any sympathy from me.

He would never go to AA. We spoke yesterday about his drinking and he admitted he has a dependency on alcohol and he wants to and will cut down drastically. He said he would never give it up, he doesn't want to and can't see the harm in an occasional drink once or twice a week or when he goes out. I feel it would be unreasonable of me to expect him to stop totally.

I know I will never trust him again which is what makes this so hard. It's also what makes me know deep down that we will split eventually, whatever happens. Be it now, a year's time, 5 years time. It will eat away at the pair of us until one of us snaps. I just don't have the strength to end it yet though. I said to him this morning he has made me as weak and as pathetic as he is. What a pair.

[WaitrosePigeon]

I feel sick reading this. I can't begin to imagine how you must feel.

Yes all marriages have their ups and downs but that doesn't mean you fuck someone else when the going gets tough.

I don't have much to offer you apart from a hand hold. I'm so sorry

[Iamdobby63]

It's not harmful to enjoy the occasional drink if you are not dependant on alcohol.

If you want to stay married I really think you are going to need to find a counsellor, if you read your posts it sounds like you are just accepting being miserable and paranoid until you are completely destroyed.

[PurpleThursday]

Sadly as much as you are staying together for the children, it isn't really going to benefit the children with your relationship in this state. It could cause them a lot of damage.

I think you need some counselling together - even if it is to admit the trust has gone and the relationship is essentially over - you will then have everything out in the open and can work out together how you move forward as a family.

[ItShouldHaveBeenJingleJess]

oh Carrie, I don't know what to say. You need space to think but you're also afraid that giving him space might drive him into the OW's arms. As a recovering alcoholic (and I don't know if your OH is - but his inability to make a commitment to stopping suggests it's a very real possibility), lies are par for the course. A drinking addiction is all about deception, with or without infidelity.

I honestly don't know if there is any going back in my situation - some days, I just want to move on, others, I miss him so much. The worst bit is the fannying about - he has repeatedly told me that they have split up, which gives me a bit of hope, only to discover they haven't. Messy mind games. I'm lucky in that I have a fab neighbour who has supported me. Have you spoken to other family members/friends yet or does this make it feel too 'real'?

[CarrieMayBe]

I'm finding it difficult to come to terms with the fact that if I end our marriage then I'm being selfish. Because it would tear the DCs world apart and I would be the one to do that. I know he caused the split but he is prepared to stay with us. For now at least until it happens again I suppose. I've never put my own happiness above anybody else's and it's not something that I feel I could live with.

Counselling is definitely something that would be of benefit, hence why I suggested it back in the summer. Whether he would go now or not I don't know. I think he would find it too difficult to admit to somebody what he has done therefore he'll just refuse to go.

Jess he is being unbelievably cruel towards you. To say they've split when they haven't - what is that about? Is it purely a case of him wanting his cake and eating it? What goes through their heads? I'm glad you have such a lovely neighbour to support you. Apart from MIL there are no family members I could talk to about this. I lost my mum when I was 20 and my god it's times like this that I need her so much. Mind you, she'd have ripped his balls off by now. Now there's a thought I told my best friend by text early on thurs morning and she replied 'what????' When I said yes, it's true she just replied with 'I hope you find some sort of resolution' and that's the last I heard from her. I have other good friends but they're all school mum's. I know that this will shock them and they are likely to discuss it at home with their DH's and I cannot risk their DCs overhearing and telling mine. MN has been a wonderful outlet for me and I can't thank you all enough. It's also good to re-read this thread - there's a lot I don't take in at the time of reading the replies so it's good to do it a second time and also it's like a time line of events. When I feel I'm caving in I go back to the early posts and read the devastation behind my words and it makes it real again.

What I'd really like to do is go to sleep and never wake up

[Esoteric]

Carrie, I am so with you, I posted last night under 20 years down the drain. I have been far too liberal I think in the past as I had no real need not to trust and it's coming home to roost . I am in same position of being very unsure, I like my husband a lot, I don't like his behaviour or his attitude at times

[PurpleThursday]

Carrie I don't think he has a choice about counselling.

I think you clearly say that if he wants to continue living there at the moment it has to happen.

It's really not asking much of him given the circumstances!

[PurpleThursday]

By the way... I come from the place of having a H who lied a lot. Promised, begged, manipulated a lot too.

We attended counselling and it was very beneficial because it showed me clearly my reactions/feelings and worries were normal.

Unfortunately he continued to lie, didn't stick to arrangements etc and the Counsellor eventually said there was no point continuing because of HIM! That reinforced all of the concerns I had wrestled with for so long.

[Pollyanna9]

I agree with PurpleThursday. This man needs to be brought up sharp - something has to happen to show him he's crossed a line and it's not going to be accepted - and he has to go to Alcoholics Anonymous. End of.

[FantasticButtocks]

First you need to get yourself in a reasonable state, before making big decisions. This has been a massive shock and your nerves are jangled through lack of sleep, lack of food and the sheer emotional devastation. I can quite see why you aren't ready to boot him out. But it sounds like he wants to stay, so perhaps you can give him a few conditions pointers on how he can help you. He can stay for the moment as long as... 1. He agrees to counselling.

1. He does whatever is necessary for DCs and lets you be 'ill' in bed, so you get some space and some sleep.
   
2. Whatever else would help you right now

[DiscoMike]

I'm finding it difficult to come to terms with the fact that if I end our marriage then I'm being selfish But Carrie, it's him that's been selfish, it's him that's ended your marriage. Not you.

[Naicehamshop]

Seriously Carrie - splitting up will not permanently damage your children, especially if you do your best to handle everything in a sensitive way.

Staying together in this awful, toxic, angry and depressing relationship will. I speak as someone who went through exactly this as a teenager. I know it's hard, but you really have to think about ending this - you surely can't continue without doing damage to your mental health.

[CarrieMayBe]

Help me deal with this latest revelation please...I was talking to him about how we had a couple of weeks back in the summer where our sex life was rekindled. We'd been away for a night together (my DCs had bought it as a birthday gift for me without his knowledge otherwise we wouldn't have gone anywhere together) and we were getting on really well. We sat outside in the evenings chatting and drinking, I didn't have a lot but he did naturally, but anyway, we were having sex most nights. I just asked him how he could've resumed that level of intimacy with me whilst still texting her. His answer? I wasn't texting her. I said I didn't believe him and he said he definitely wasn't as she was on holiday.

How the fuck do I deal with that? The only reason he suddenly wanted to know me was because he couldn't have her during that period. The same period in which I developed the most agonisingly painful thrush. I feel such an idiot, so humiliated and used.

Haven't spoken to him yet as I stormed off into a different room and want to wait until the youngest DCs are asleep before confronting him. Eldest DCs are both out tonight. I need to tell him to fuck off out of here don't I?

[PurpleThursday]

Isn't it possible you got thrush because you had sex a few times and hadn't for a while?

It's a stupid answer his that she was on holiday but (being a stupid male and communicating v differently from us) didn't he mean that he definitely wasn't and that was the prof rather than you came 2nd best because she was away?

Please don't think I'm defending him because I'm not but your head (VERY understandably) is in such a muddle even a possible honest answer can't be seen.

You need to give him the counselling ultimatum and have someone else steer this. In our area the waiting lists were long anyway so you really need to get on it ASAP.

[PurpleThursday]

You've also given very valid reasons why your sex life improved then, you were away from home, no kids, space to relax, unwind, talk and reconnect. It didn't happen because she was away - your kids booked it.

[gottachangethename1]

Poor love, you sound absolutely tortured. For your own sanity I think you need to have space from him, physically and emotionally. He can stay with his mum until/if the time comes that you are more able to cope with this. As difficult as it must be, you need to eat and sleep in order to strengthen yourself. You also need rl support. Thinking of you.

[CarrieMayBe]

I've spoken to him and it turns out that she was on holiday the week leading up to having sex the first time. She came back either the following day or the day after. So he'd had a week with no contact, had a lovely night with me and then picked up where he left.

I'm reaching the point now where I'm realising it's all irrelevant, we're finished and the sooner I get him out of my life the sooner I can start healing.

I never thought anything could be as painful as knowing my mum was going to die yet this beats it. I could never forgive him for this and it breaks my heart that I've lost him. I love him but I hate what he's done and I now know what I need to do.

[CarrieMayBe]

I love him so much, I know it's pathetic and he's been a grade A cunt but fuck I love him.

I just want the pain to stop. When will it stop? My heart is absolutely breaking and I feel I'm going insane. Why can't I be strong and kick him out and never look back?

[CoolCarrie]

From another Carrie, keep strong and know you have tried your best. it won't be easy but you and your dc are worth more than the scraps he is giving at the moment. I am sorry but when the trust is gone, it isn't coming back. He had hurt you too much now.

[PurpleThursday]

It is utter betrayal, by your best friend and the person you had built a life with. It is just terrible.

But you do still have children so will need help through this emotional hell.

to help numb things a bit. I feel so sad for you.