I caught DH out tonight

[CarrieMayBe]

There's such a long back story to our marriage - been together just over 20yrs, married for 13.5yrs. 4 DCs.

Things been rocky for a number of years and we did actually split for 7 months just over 3yrs ago. During that time separated I got myself lots of help for the PND that I'd been suffering from for years and became a new person. DH evaluated himself too and said he could see his faults and promised to work on them if there was a chance of us getting back together. Also, our youngest daughter who was 5 at the time really struggled to cope with our split. She was hysterical whenever DH dropped her back home after his weekend of having the DCs, to the point he literally had to drag her out of his house and into mine. I tried to get her counselling but neither the school or the GP could arrange it, lack of services in our area apparently.

Anyway, the guilt over how it was affecting DD coupled with the fact that our time apart had made us realise that we did indeed have something good worth trying again for meant we gave our marriage another shot.

DH moved back in, things were really good for a few months but then they began to slip. DH started drinking heavily again (always a big issue between us) blaming the stress of work as usual. We totally by accident ended up seeing a house to buy that we fell head over heels in love with. We weren't looking to move even but decided it would be a fresh start and a forever home for us. The purchase was far from plain sailing due to various legal issues and to cut a long story short we only moved in in May this year, 14 months after actually buying it. The legal issues still haven't been resolved and we are under huge financial strain because of it. DH is self employed and I'm a SAHM so the pressure to keep up with the horrendous costs is all on him. I totally understand this and have been fully supportive.

Due to the stress of the past 2yrs things have become bad between us again. We don't have sex, we barely talk and although we have periods of things being good between us most of the time we just co-exist in the same house. It can be horrible and so lonely. DH doesn't do emotions or affection in any shape or form, he can with the kids but not me. He accepts this as a fault of his and claims that's just who he is. It leads to resentment on my part and I find it hard to be physically attracted to someone who makes no effort with me at other times.

For the past few weeks I've noticed he's been careful with his phone. Little things like if it's on charge in the kitchen for example, a room that I'm usually in, he will put it on flight mode so new messages can't come in. I can hear it buzzing at other times to show he has a message and he hates texting, really uses it as a last resort kind of communication. I've suspected he's talking to another woman. Tonight he fell asleep whilst putting youngest DC to bed and I went to wake him up. I saw his phone on the side and picked it up to give to him and as I moved it the screen lit up and there was a message - I couldn't see what it said but there were lots of ..... in the paragraph and emoticons. Believe me, none of his mates would send a message with content like that, not their style at all.

So I pulled him up on it, told him I knew it was from a woman and, to cut a very long night indeed short, I have finally had most of the truth out of him. Yes he's been in contact with a woman he met through work. It's been going on 6 months. They've had sex at least once that I know of (he's still not telling me everything I'm sure, he says he doesn't want to keep hurting me but the not knowing is making it harder) which he admitted happened when he'd spent a night at a hotel with her.

I'm devastated. He keeps telling me our marriage was all but over, I've withheld sex from him so what did I expect, he was weak and couldn't help it...all the standard stuff. I've been out for a drive on my own where I spent an hour driving down dark country lanes screaming at the top of my lungs that I hate him and he's a cunt. I've cried til I have no tears left. I haven't slept at all. I just don't know what to do now. We both promised all our DC that we'd never put them through a split again, and now we will. I know we're over, but I don't want us to be. I know our marriage was in serious trouble, I suggested going to relate during the summer but he brushed it off...of course he was shagging her at that point. He says he doesn't want to be with her, she's married too (pair of charmers aren't they?). I was hoping that after getting the shit with the house sorted next year we could concentrate our efforts on getting us back on track, I've already booked a break away for just the two of us next summer. Not enough I know but the intention is there, just mixed up in all the stress I suppose. I know I'm not blameless in this and have accepted that when talking with him tonight although I still don't think it excuses what he's done. I know DD will never cope with this break up. Added to that we still are living in a house we legally aren't allowed to live in.

Sorry this is so long and probably incoherent. I don't want to drip feed though if I can help it.

What a fucking mess. Please hold my hand.

I'm sorry you're going through this. I can't imagine how you must be feeling. But this will pass. I promise.

For the sake of your children you need to be strong, and show them how you deserve to be treated. They will respect you much more if they know the truth (the oldest needs to know what is going on asap) and then take it from there.

You are not winning any long term battles by staying with this man. He will do it again because let's face it, you have more respect of yourself than to pretend he didn't rip your heart out by having sex with that other woman. You're going to see her face every single time. So why torture yourself.

I understand your DD will be upset. But maybe this time you need to make it very clear why it's happening. You were obviously sending mixed signals as you got back together with DH. That's why she was upset, she was confused.

You can do this. You deserve soooo much more. You just need to believe it.

X

I can't get over his refusal to ring her, why am I focusing on that more than him shagging her? I guess it's just proved everything I already knew, he doesn't give a fuck about me and he has deeper feelings for her than he admitted.

Yep, basically you gave him another chance to demonstrate that your feelings/wishes matter and he chose to give you yet another demonstration of how shittily he's happy to behave towards you.

You haven't done anything to hurt them.

He is the one who has destroyed your marriage.

He is the one who is not doing everything he can to show you it was a mistake.

He doesnt want to ring her in your presence because that gives way to the opportunity for far more than you know about now to come out. I wouldn't say its because he doesnt care its because he does , about being embarrassed by his actions by being fully exposed in front of both of you.Nobody wears guilt well.

Hope you managed to get some sleep carrie.

Not excusing his behaviour but it's possible he felt it would really escalate the situation because phoning her, she could have said anything.If he has low emotional intelligence he just won't feel able to deal with it, so avoids.Unless he's a psycho he must be feeling a level of anxiety so in the fight, freeze or flight response.I am not excusing him just trying to recognise he's having emotions as well.It might help you which is what I think is important.

I have just separated from my h so know the emotional roller coaster.My mind was in a highly reactive state and I just wanted action to make the pain go away.

What helped was sleep.When dc at school I would collapse on the sofa and just sleep as so drained.Mindfulness and also reading positive calming books.

Since I have calmed my mind I can think what I want and I'm able to support the children.

My h leaving gave us space, I was reacting to him, every comment, look or action.Thats so stressful.
If his mum will take him in that would be good, especially if she makes him take responsibility.

Why are you focussing on him ringing her? That gives you no closure and no guarantees. The real question is can you trust him again.

You said further up thread that 'you don't want anyone else to have him' - clearly staying married to him doesn't protect you from that!

Remember he is the one who broke the trust, it's up to him to fix it.

Hi Carrie - just wanted to add another tale to the pile of "better to split again now" ones.

A friend's sister divorced her abusive H when her DC were 9 and 11. However, neither could afford to live elsewhere, and they all stayed living in the same house. Her DC didn't even know they were divorced, although they may have wondered why they slept in separate rooms. She finally told them when the younger one went to university and it caused absolute bloody mayhem. They were incandescently angry that she had hidden the true state of affairs from them, that they had lived a lie for almost a decade, and been made to live in the atmosphere in their home. They both refused to speak to her (don't know about him) for a while - I would assume that situation resolved, but I lost touch with that friend and don't know the final outcome, sadly. But I think the reaction is enough - you don't want to live a lie for your DC's sake, they won't thank you for it in the long run. :(

Your H isn't showing much sign of really wanting to fix things, is he. He should be bending over backwards to do whatever you want to make things better - and he really isn't doing that. To me, that says it all - you're not important enough in his life to make his own life uncomfortable - so, even though it means you will have to deal with the fall-out (as I'm sure he will too, to some extent), you're going to have to tell the DC that you're very sorry but your promise can't be kept, because things have changed.

You might not want anyone else to have him (can't blame you for that at the moment) but in reality, he's not yours to "keep". He's also shown you that in a very callous way. So, he's not really yours at the moment, and he can choose to give himself to someone else at any time. :(
You can't stop him. So cut the ties yourself, before he does it permanently.

and (((hugs))) for you - it's a rocky road now, but you will have the strength, you will find it. xx

Thinking of u Carrie. is dh still at home or has he left I think it u would find it easier if he left u could tell the kids its just for a few days just so u can't get your head together without him around

I sort of get it.

With my ex, I could forgive the infidelity. I really could. Shit happens and people fuck up. What I can never forgive is that minutes after telling me, he literally ran away. Legged it to the train station without telling me he was leaving, so that I sat up all night, shell-shocked and awaiting his return.

And yes, he probably is more focused in her right now - but not because his feelings for her are 'deeper', but because he's fucked up his Plan A (you) and is terrified he might bugger up Plan B (her).

I wanted to post on your thread as your story was quite similar to mine.

Remeberance day holds many memories for me as the day my world blew apart 5 years ago.

Things were not great between my husband at the time, hardly any sex the same as you just co existing. I thought it was just a blip. He started acting different and I woke up one morning and just knew so I needed to find the proof. I did on Facebook. I actually thought as it hadn't gone too far at that point he would be remorseful and we could have it out and talk it through and start afresh. He was late home from work and I immediately confronted him, he actually denied anything had happened with her. (It was a EA at that point but nothing physical had happened)

He asked me what I wanted and I said I didn't know, he told me he wanted out of our relationship. As he had took that decision away from me I pleaded and begged and he turned from the man I loved into a cold bastard, so cold it was like I'd cheated on him. I threw myself at him to sleep with me and he refused and said he would be leaving home the next day. I drank myself silly to ease the pain.

Before he left he said he hoped a temporary split would him him clear his head. I told him he needed to call her in front of me and finish it or it would be over. He didn't, he wanted to do it in his own time.

He actually ended up meeting her a few times while he had moved out and he did sleep with her. I was like a woman possessed doing the pick me dance and I regret it to this day.

We did get back together and we have talked it though many times and he openly admits he lost respect for me as I didn't have the guts to just kick him out for wronging me. I also constantly text him when he left, he never replied until I completely stopped then he came running back. I believe there are 2 types of us but you don't know until you are in that position. 1. The LTB type 2. The pick me type.

Since all this we have had 2 minor situations and I've not been the doormat and showed him the door, he respects me so much for that now.

I didn't want it to end for the children's sake, I don't have regrets for taking him back as things are so much better now. We needed something drastic to bring us back from that unhappy time. the only regrets I had was the way I handled it and it still torments me now.

Good luck with things and let us know how your getting on

Hi poor you and the children. Happened to me I forgave the first affair he promised our son he wouldn't do it again and me ! 18 months later did it again son has never forgiven , make him leave and although hard it will be better in the long run these people are so hurtful wish you all the best xx

I'm so sorry that so many of you have been through it too, what utter bastards.

He is still here. Partly because I'm too weak to blow the kids worlds apart right now and partly because I actually need his help with them. I've had 7hrs sleep since 4am weds and I've not eaten either. I just physically cannot seem to do either and it doesn't leave me in a great position to be looking after the kids. my dad is also very unwell at the moment and I did manage to go and see him today but I'm eaten up with guilt that I cannot give him my full attention at this moment. Telling him what's going on is simply not an option, I'm not being dramatic when I say I think it would literally kill him.

I feel so numb that I'm almost behaving as if things are normal between us. Obviously not completely because we are talking about what's happened but we've talked more about ordinary things too than we have in months. We'd stopped having conversations really. He's still telling me that it's me he wants to be with. He just wants to block her out of his life and move forwards with us. He hates seeing what he's done to me and says whatever I decide he wants to help me get back on my feet - if I want him to leave after that then he will. He keeps trying to hug me though and I just freeze, I can't handle him touching me after all he's putting me through.

I'm constantly checking to see if he's texting. She hasn't replied to his text as far as I'm aware but she'd be stupid to over a weekend when she knows he'll be here. She'll do it Monday when he's back at work and I'll never know if he's replied and it's just started back up again. He still maintains they only had sex once, I find it ludicrous but I think I believe him. It's more the emotional side of it that's hurting, the 6 months of chatting every night when he struggled to say two words to me.

I swing between all sorts of emotions although I haven't lost it with him today which is something I guess.

You have no idea how much support I have felt from this thread, thank you all for holding my hand. It must feel like I'm ignoring everyone who has advised me to LTB, I know I'd be shouting at the screen if I wasn't the OP, it's still very much the most likely ending to all this but I can't do it right this minute. I'm not naive enough though to think things could ever work between us though.

sparklys post is interesting. I have a friend who separated with her DH for eighteen months after infidelity and they are now back together so it can be done.

However, I think some sort of time apart is necessary. I wish I was a little further down the line so that I could give really constructive advice. I have people who say to me LTB and people who say it's a blip - you can work it out. So I don't know, but I do appreciate the crazed confusion and shock you are in. Until you experience it firsthand, you have no idea of how it feels, both physically and mentally.

I know it doesn't mean much, OP, but your posting is helping me process my feelings. And probably lots of other women besides.

I understand what you're saying Jess and I think him leaving initially for a while is what should probably happen. However I also know it would drive me insane, I wouldn't know where he was/what he was doing. If he's trying to prove to me that it's over with her and he wants to be with me then surely being under the same roof is best so I can see that he's not seeing her?

I hate that it's destroyed my trust in him. He runs his own business with 10 staff, all of them male. He's just about to take on a woman in his office - the job has always been done by a man but he resigned at the end of the summer. How can I trust him to work alongside her now? I told him I'll never trust him again when he goes out for the night, his reply was that he wouldn't go out, especially not for a long time following this. That's not realistic though is it? And will only fuel his resentment further.

He's saying all the right things but I don't know whether he truly means them or if it's just lip service. I don't know anything anymore.

What do you think will happen eventually in your situation Jess?

Carrie you have had an awful shock and all the feelings you are having are completely normal.

There is no right or wrong decision in your situation, only you really know it - and at the moment you must feel as if you really don't know anything at all.

Marriages do have hiccups, people do drift apart and there are temptations when other parties sluts encourage men to confide in them and offer them support. Your DH wouldn't be the first - and that by no way means I am excusing him. But you do sound as if you have all had an awful lot going on.

Sorry to hear about your Dad. That is another awful pressure on you.

Be kind to yourself, of course you need help with the kids and the house - and he is the person who should do it, don't feel bad about that.

Maybe just start to think what it is you really need him to do to make you feel more comfortable? None of these shit feelings will disappear in a hurry. I don't always think counselling is the answer but I think something like that together will give you the chance to get all of this upset out of your system in the right way and with support. Surely he would accept that request. If not, well, that is another indicator for you in a certain direction.

Please try and eat, just a little soup, sugary tea and biscuits, anything. Your body needs something to help it through this difficult time.

We're here. Vent and sort your thoughts with us if you need.

Thank you Purple. We did indeed have a hell of a lot going on and we drifted apart big time. I'm not sure it was the OW who encouraged all this though, he's been honest enough about things for me to know that he took the lead for much of it. In fact, were she not married herself I wouldn't particularly hold her accountable at all because she wasn't out to hurt me. The fact they were both married should've told them to stay well away from each other but that's just imo.

I can't eat, I did buy a tin of soup this afternoon and I really fancied it later on when I went into the kitchen. DH was in there and I asked him if he was finding it strange not having to hide his phone/put it on flight mode/be a sneaky fucker etc and he said it was actually a relief not to have to be hiding it any longer. This lead to other questions etc and by the time all that was done I'd completely lost my appetite.

The timing of something like this could never be right but I do wish my dad wasn't ill at the same time. He lives alone and I'm the only child who lives close enough to him to do anything to help. When DH and I were talking earlier and I said if OW is going to reply to his text it will be on Monday, he said he'd take the day off work and be at home with me so I could see his phone and I'd know. Then I spoke to dad and I really need to try and get him a Drs appt for Monday as he's just so unwell. I know this sounds awful but I just want to shut out everything else going on outside of my home life. I don't feel I can control anything at the moment and I don't know if I have much more left that I can give.

I meant to say that I will need to take dad and attend the Drs appt with him so will be out for the best part of the morning.

It doesn't sound awful. You are overwhelmed. Focus on sleep and food please, the rest will happen as it does.

I think you could reasonably ask your H to come with you? You can't watch his every move anyway but if he is offering to be around I think you should take him up on it.

Goodness me. Reading this has made me want to cry, hug you, hug me and cry some more. Also reminded me to come to mumsnet more because I'm so not alone dealing with my rubbish ..

Lots of love and hugs x

OP I'm so sorry you are going through all of this. You have to do what's right for your MH and the kids

Purple I couldn't ask him to come with me to dad's appt as my dad would find that so strange he would either think he's seriously ill and we aren't telling him something or he'd know something is up with me and DH.

Sleepy I hope you're ok. I'm so sorry you're going through this too. There are just so many of us, it's crazy.

I spent hours last night reading through messages that DH and I had sent each other. Nothing that really gives anything away except that on one of the nights I know he met up with OW I had sent him a photo of our 6yr old asleep in bed with the dog. So he saw that, DS in all his innocence and then went off with OW. No conscience there was there.

Oddly enough, there are a whole string of messages missing from my phone. I know we had a big argument around the time the affair began as he'd been out one night and came home completely trolleyed. I'd slept in our youngest child's bed that night as he'd been really unsettled and during the night DH came into the room looking for the toilet. I hurried him out and he went into the bathroom. A couple of days later I knocked over the pedal bin in there by accident and when I picked it up there was liquid all over the floor. He'd pissed in the bin. How charming. I remember texting him, calling him all sorts for being such an irresponsible man-child (there is much history behind this, every single time he goes out there is a disaster. From having to sleep at work because he can't get a taxi home, falling over and smashing his face in, there is just always something). Anyway, because I remember that incident so clearly and there is no trace of those messages on my phone I know they've been deleted and it's not by me. I suspect those messages from around that point incriminate him in some way, either by things he's said to me or lies about where he's going etc. So I asked to look at our messages on his phone as I thought maybe I had deleted them accidentally. Turns out on weds night when this all kicked off he just hit delete and wiped every single message we'd ever sent. He claims it's because we'd said awful things and he didn't want a reminder and he swears he hasn't deleted any off my phone. I just cannot believe him and I'm so hurt that he is still lying to me. I'm so angry with myself that I can't remember all the details of nights he was out at around that time etc. I'm obsessing and driving myself insane and I know that but I can't hit the off switch.

Anyway, the upshot of all that is he has given me his phone for today and tomorrow. I can't get into it and haven't asked because I know he's deleted all messages form her so I have nothing to see even if I could. It does mean however that he cannot contact her today and if she does text him tomorrow then I will see it come up on the front screen. Although I've just realised he could ring her tomorrow when he gets to work. Ffs I just can't outwit him can I?

I need to get a grip. I'm so sorry for rambling.

Morning Carrie.

I had 2 different thoughts reading that. The first one was that this does not look good with regards to him being honest and putting your feelings/needs first, a few red flags with his really selfish behaviour.

Then the bit about him deleting messages on your phone. Really? I don't get that at all all. Has he done that before? Would he really do to all that trouble? There can't have been anything said that bad or you would remember surely? I think at times like this (been there with a lying XH) your mind can convince you of all sorts.

Can you go to some kind of counselling together? I don't think you can start to fix this on your own.