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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh thread 3

993 replies

Lilacpink40 · 09/11/2016 18:57

Thred 3! Grin

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greencarbluecar · 10/12/2016 16:44

Thanks dusters, for a while earlier I thought I was missing him, but then I realised it was just some companionship I wanted. That was never guaranteed with him anyway. It seemed to be with AE, but, well. I can't imagine being able to trust anyone ever again, so maybe that's it now.

I hadn't thought about you being an easy target to him. That really is sleazy Sad I think watching and waiting to see if it's going to end anyway might be the best compromise for now, and you can support her if it is.

You sound like you're supporting quite a few friends! That's lovely. (I realised thats another thing WN took from me, I used to have a good circle of supportive friendships and now only a couple remain, and of course they have their own lives. They're not close by either. I don't have the first clue how you're supposed to go about building new ones from scratch, especially as a LP who can't go out much!)

nicenewdusters · 10/12/2016 17:35

Is almost ex an ex yet, or is it still almost ? Confused

It's a shame you're not nearby Greencar. We could babysit for each other, and have LP nights in! Kids could go bonkers on fizzy drinks and junk food, we'd go bonkers on wine, Pringles, MNing, chatting and dancing Grin

I do try and support friends if I can, I'm sure you do as well. I've noticed that some of my friends actively don't do this. They're the ones who never ask many questions about people, never go beneath the surface. I guess that's the price I pay for being nosey !!

Natsku · 10/12/2016 18:10

Urgh what a sleazy bastard dusters Can understand your predicament on whether to tell your friend or not, its a tough position to be in. I was out last night and had a sleazeball try to kiss me, when just an hour or so earlier we had been talking with his girlfriend. He's my friend's boss though so I'm just going to tell my friend and let him deal with it.

Sounds like your friend is in denial for sure, I know I was in denial for years about what my ex was really like but when it affected DD I was able to get the courage to leave. I'd maybe try one more time to talk to her if you can get some time alone with her, and then go to the school.

It is hard building up a new friend network greencar I've been slowly doing it via a family cafe thing I go to with DD.

greencarbluecar · 10/12/2016 18:29

ghost so sorry, I don't think I replied to you (lots to deal with!). DC preschool age. My WN and those of many others here also has family who think and tell him he's wonderful and does the 'great parent' act. Like you, I find this very transparent. You're in good company here!

How are things with you this weekend?

nicenewdusters · 10/12/2016 18:34

Oh god Nats that's horrible - there must be something in the water as they say! Do you think your friend will say anything as it's his boss? These people have got a bloody cheek, they don't consider the fallout for a moment, do they.

I will speak to my friend again, but only if we can be apart from her kids and partner, so it may take some time to organise. I understand the denial, I imagine at the moment she feels like she's managed to regain some normality. But of course it's so far from normal.

greencarbluecar · 10/12/2016 18:43

Cross posted with you both there, not doing very well tonight am I.

dusters I still don't know what's going on there, in any way. I'm not sure if I'm being strung along or if this is his idea of behaving properly. Maybe I'm just a walkover.

That sounds like a brilliant idea! I'd bring my dwindling supply of buttermint tea (that link someone posted, was it you oh, was sold out by the time I got to it ) and we could imagine we were using NarcAway products as we cleaned up. Seriously, I do sometimes wish I knew you lot in RL!

Nat that sounds good, I've just moved so am keeping an eye out for things like that although it seems there is less and less with all the cuts. And tricky with work as well! Have you found it's happened spontaneously or have you had to work at it? I found it easy at the baby stage, shared situation bonding I guess, but not so much now. Not to mention my confidence has gone on a long holiday!

greencarbluecar · 10/12/2016 18:43

Cross posted with you both there, not doing very well tonight am I.

dusters I still don't know what's going on there, in any way. I'm not sure if I'm being strung along or if this is his idea of behaving properly. Maybe I'm just a walkover.

That sounds like a brilliant idea! I'd bring my dwindling supply of buttermint tea (that link someone posted, was it you oh, was sold out by the time I got to it ) and we could imagine we were using NarcAway products as we cleaned up. Seriously, I do sometimes wish I knew you lot in RL!

Nat that sounds good, I've just moved so am keeping an eye out for things like that although it seems there is less and less with all the cuts. And tricky with work as well! Have you found it's happened spontaneously or have you had to work at it? I found it easy at the baby stage, shared situation bonding I guess, but not so much now. Not to mention my confidence has gone on a long holiday!

Natsku · 10/12/2016 20:00

Had to work at it greencar mostly by making myself start conversations with people, I'm not good at that sober Grin especially difficult when I'm doing it in Finnish but it helps that there's children around as they play together and we can talk about that - one of the children is the same age as DD and he adores her so it adds a connection.

Don't know if he will dusters but possibly. He's his friend as well as his boss so its easier for him to talk to him about and tell him its not appropriate. Same thing happened with a different guy the last time I went out! But that guy was single so not so bad but he knew that I'm not - but I knew him well enough to tell him off severely and he apologised and went home (and hopefully learnt something from that).

Lilacpink40 · 10/12/2016 20:06

Green it's no wonder your confidence is lower than could be, moving is stressful, then add in DC and you have WN and almost ex. It's all extra baggage, (not DC, but does complicate things iyswim). Is there a local Gingerbread (LP) group near you?

My WN has decided he won't do homework with DCs. It's fine with eldest as she gets on with it, but with youngest I have to timetable it into our time. I feel like the nagging one Xmas Sad

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nicenewdusters · 10/12/2016 20:25

I don't think homework comes under the list of Disney Dad activities Wink

Namechanger2015 · 10/12/2016 20:37

Thanks for your thoughts re my counsellor, I did raise my eyebrows when she said that. I don't know what type of counsellor she is, she is from a charity organisation near me and so it's only £5 per session for me to attend. But I am going to apply for an alternative as I think she might be a bit bonkers.

Had one of those days today. DD1 had gymnastics where parents can stay and watch. All fine. DD2 and DD3 had an extracurricular activity this morning, the timing of these work beautifully so I can drop all 3 of them off and then pick them all up again no bother. Except this week, as I had a meeting for DD1's extra curricular, which ran across both sets of classes. Lots of frantic texting and my brother saved the day. I sucked it up, as we all do, and moved on.
But I noticed all of these dads turning up to all of these classes and supporting their children whilst I tried again to do it all single handed. Felt very much like a single parent today.

But the crux is DD1 needs to attend an additional Saturday morning session to pass her extracurricular exams. There is a lot of cost associated, which I am fine with. But I know WN will go mad on the weekends he deems to see them (once a month usually), as this would mean he can't pick them up on Friday evenings, and will instead have to make it a day later on Saturdays. This is not about wanting to spend time with them, it's more that it is convenient for him as its closer to work and so its shorter distance to pick them up. He regularly pressurises them to change their plans, not attend parties, miss their clubs for his convenience. This happens every single time. He doesn't see why they do any extra curricular activities at all, and thinks that 'back in my day we didn't have any of these clubs and we were fine'.

But ffs. I want my children to enjoy these things, and I want my daughter to have a head start with her education. I went to a crappy school and worked hard and did ok for myself- its the reason I can support 3 children alone. So I want my children to have some opportunities to better themselves that wouldn't mean relying on any potentially shitty partners if (god forbid) they ever found themselves in that situation.

I know he will make it hard for DD1 to attend a Saturday morning class, even if its just once a month that he sees her. If she misses classes I have to pay (which is not great but of course its understandable and is fine) and she will have to attend catchup sessions, which is just a bit shit for her. The fact that her dad is deliberately withholding cash from us (hence the court hearings) makes it tough. A decent dad would give money so their children can do activities, and would support the children with these by coming to watch, or even asking the children about how they are doing with these.

DD2 won a prize for most improved student today - she is only 7, she was so happy and proud of herself, as was I! WN will probably never even know that she won that. He simply doesn't ask, and as DDs are still quite young, they don't remember to say when he calls them once a week. I don't tell him as we are NC.

I'm sad but not surprised! My lovely girls are happy anyway - they don't seem to miss his presence at all anymore and it's only been 2 years since we split. Onwards and upwards we all go.

Namechanger2015 · 10/12/2016 20:38

I don't think homework comes under the list of Disney Dad activities

^Lol, these special men are all so alike, it's tragic! Grin

Lilacpink40 · 10/12/2016 22:30

Duster and name it is tragic Disney Dad cant get his head out of his own arse. I feel bit bad for mentioning homework when other useless WNs aren't paying any maintenance or are constantly threatening court etc.

Mine pays monthly, but I then pay for all DCs activities, including weekend days when he has them. I know they're paid in advance then. He recently suggested that our eldest doesn't like her once a week evening class that he takes her to (again I pay for). It finishes at our youngest's bedtime. If he pulls out, as she does enjoy it, I'll have to keep the youngest up, get back with both tired and WN gets yet another evening off. Won't bother Disney Dad.Xmas Angry

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theghostofchristmaspresent · 11/12/2016 11:09

Thanks to all of you for your advice & thoughts on 'should they keep seeing their dad if they don't want to' & yes I'm going to try & be all positive & encourage ... There really seems to be a particular 'breed' & my ex ticks all the boxes - total lack of interest in anything that doesn't make HIM look like wonder-dad.
I might post later about a particular ongoing thing that's driving me NUTS but it'll totally 'out' me....
It's something that's giving him power & he is loving the fact that I'm getting so Confused about it. It's his current bit of power.
Sorry to hear all of you are having such a tough time with your crap exes.

greencarbluecar · 11/12/2016 17:37

ghost I know exactly what you're describing, being driven nuts by their power games. Withholding information seems to be a favourite. The best advice I can give you, and it is hard, is try to train yourself not to be bothered. In the words of Elsa, let it go, if you can. Mine does this to me all the time, and I mean all the time, and the only way I can cope is to accept that he will play these games, be completely unreasonable and deliberately do things he knows will upset, bother, confuse, stress and irritate me. It's taken a conscious effort, and of course deep down it does still bother me, but I've got it down to a buried niggle, rather than front of my mind infuriating distressing issue, if you know what I mean.

I'm in no way free of his control yet, but overcoming that part has had a significant benefit to my wellbeing.

theghostofchristmaspresent · 11/12/2016 17:54

Thank you so much Green
Amazingly supportive & helpful post there from you & to know that others are going through the same shit is doing wonders for my MH already (so sorry you're all having to tolerate it obvs but you know what i mean!!!!
It's so infuriating because I thought I was able to let it go & have even been thinking that things are so much better & now.... BAM! & I'll elaborate later on....

greencarbluecar · 11/12/2016 18:25

Thanks for the Gingerbread idea lilac, I'll have a look. You're right, lots going on so not strange to feel a bit overwhelmed. This too shall pass, this too shall pass...

Disney dads. Ugh. All the same. That's all I have to say, or I'll RANT. And massively out myself!

ghost we all know exactly what you mean, it's shit that so many of us go through this but comforting not to be the only one. This thread is a great source of support! It does seem to be cyclical, it's shit then it's not so bad and you feel a bit better and then...oh it's shit again. Too much drama! Keeps us on our toes, aye?

Lilacpink40 · 11/12/2016 19:09

Green I agree it gets better / worse in a cycle.
When they haven't done / said anything controlling for a period of time, as we're all regular people, I think relief is the main feeling.
Then, again being regular people, we get a bit suspicious about the 'silence'. Finally, we start thinking perhaps things will be normal from now on, until they suddenly act controlling again and it feels like the cycle will never end.

I really want to be able to discuss childcare with WN. It would be good if he and I could have flexibility to allow for a full weekend /week off them seeing him occassionally. He likes one day, in the day only, per weekend. In holidays he says he wants a day a week (usually picks midweek) rather than multiple days, then palms them off to his parents. It restricts me taking DCs away, which I think may well suit him.

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Lilacpink40 · 11/12/2016 19:11

Should add he does so little, I wonder if I ask for a break for a weekend if he'll then stop others to teach me a lesson or guilt trip kids.

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greencarbluecar · 11/12/2016 19:18

It's very similar for me lilac. I'd never dare ask for something as I know he'd either refuse nastily, or agree then pull out last minute. In either case he'd use it against me later. Never make them plan A, or even plan B..."

It sucks. It's not about them spending time with their DC, it's about controlling us. They're dicks.

theghostofchristmaspresent · 11/12/2016 19:47

It sucks. It's not about them spending time with their DC, it's about controlling us. They're dicks

Green's nailed it.

Ohb0llocks · 11/12/2016 20:59

Definitely agree with green. They are controlling dicks.

No reply from sols letter. He will have it by now. Would've got it thurs at the very latest if Royal Mail were significantly late.

greencarbluecar · 11/12/2016 21:47

oh is it worrying you? That's probably what he wants? I think you can take a few things from that:

  1. He hasn't directed an immediate aggressive reaction at you (I know the silence is scary, but so is their aggression in a different way). That's a good thing.
  1. He is either trying to worry you by not responding, or doesn't care that he is. Even if he needs some time to think the considerate thing to do would be to let you know that, in advance. I assume it's no surprise to you that he is not considerate!
  1. If you aren't able to put it out of your mind for now, it will be hanging over you and hugely stressing you out, as you wait for What's Next. Now, I know (fucking hell I know) it's easier said than done, but can you put it in a mental box now, and think that you'll deal with the shit if and when it hits the fan? The last thing he should get to do is ruin your Christmas!

Everyone else please feel free to disagree or add anything I've missed!

Lilacpink40 · 11/12/2016 22:11

Green I'm nodding away. This is the silence bit where you don't know his move. I like the mental box trick (imagine a 'stress shit box' outside your bedroom and imagine leaving the worry in there).

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StopLaughingDrRoss · 11/12/2016 22:14

Sorry for having been quiet all weekend - out and about for most of it so just having a catch up.

Name - agree with the others about your counsellor.. very peculiar stance to take and I would try someone else. I did some CBT about a year after WN left and whilst at the time it felt a bit Hmm, I obviously absorbed something as I felt immensely better after even though I didn't have a 'breakthrough' or anything. Good luck - one of the best things I did after my marriage breakdown as it just helped me detach.

Congrats to your DD as well Flowers I don't schedule anything at weekends as WN just won't bother. When we were thrashing out a contact schedule, I said any night except Tuesday as that was the only night we had something we did all together. So of course, Tuesday was the night he took... and didn't even take the DC once before saying he'd find something else for them. He hasn't of course. Still makes me so Angry as DS was, and is, a bit small for a lot of things and we could do this altogether.

Green - such excellent advice from you as always.. I wish we knew each other in rl too. Everyone needs someone in their corner. I hope you start to settle - I also hate the calm as I just know it precedes a storm!

Dusters & Lilac - your tales of inappropriate men make me pretty cross. How dare they! Are you supposed to be flattered?? I don't know if I could say anything though - but that's what those WN's are banking on.

I also won't comment on about asking for anything 'above & beyond' from ex's - that's why I posted in the first place. It makes me so so cross that it is never anything ridiculous, it is normally a one off request for something important - and having a life is so important when you're on your own for most of the time. THEY ARE YOUR CHILDREN TOO (sorry for shouting but it makes me mad!)

Ghost - I guess it's the whole Fake it till you Make it thing... pretend it doesn't get to you even if it's eating you up inside. So hard to do but just don't give him the satisfaction. I hope you get it sorted out!

Had a slightly rubbish night at panto with DC yesterday. DD was terrified of the bad guys so we had to leave after about ten minutes (luckily had a friend who was able to stay in with DS) so my festive family night out ended up being sat in the cold empty bar at the theatre Sad Felt so blue last night - not DD's fault but I so rarely go to the theatre which is a real passion of mine as it costs so much and my one blowout failed miserably. Ah well - always next year...

OhB - hope you're able to have a good night tonight.. I hate that waiting feeling. As said though - it's no doubt on purpose! Arse!

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