Support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh thread 3

[Lilacpink40]

Thred 3!

dusters that must be so frustrating for you, on both counts. Twat, well he's a..Itwat. A true dickhead who should grow up and be a parent. How is your DS now?

As for your friend, she sounds like she's stuck in that really awful place. I can't quite describe it, but I remember it. She's in a funny form of denial where her reality has been messed up, she'll be scared even if she hasn't acknowledged that to herself, and her 'normal' is not normal but seems it to her. I lost friendships during that time and some have recovered, some haven't. Those that have, have been with people with some insight, some understanding of the situation I was in. What I'm saying is, remember it's not personal to you, she's being twisted all ways and is probably quite desperate and very unhappy, again even if she hasn't acknowledged that herself. Could you find the patience to have one last try talking to her? I think either way you may have to involve the school, as she may be too scared or manipulated to act herself, but giving her the warning could shock her into action? Taking that control could give her the strength she needs to leave? I know for me the idea of my DC being affected by him was enough to make me leave when I couldn't do it for myself.

I think you could be right about Christmas. That niggling feeling I had started to take shape when I read that

name I was about to say I found the counsellor's comment about looking good in front of him a bit weird, but I've seen that dusters has outlined it much more eloquently!

It doesn't sit right with me. If you want to make changes, do it, but do it for you. He and his opinions should not be what drives your choices.

You're right Lilac. I don't think she can go through with the upheaval. I know the whole family unit/earth mother thing is a big issue for her as well, tonight I got a head tilt/single parent look when I had to go and get ds.

I want to say to her yes, there are moments when it's hard, but at least I don't have to pretend to like a cheating, lying, manipulative bastard. I haven't told her that he gave me a good bye kiss when he came last year to fix my pc. I'd never had that sort of relationship with him, I think he just thought "Oh, single now, worth a try" I just recoiled. God I might just run him over in my car

Anyway Lilac I was hoping you were on a hot date so we could live vicariously through your romantic exploits !!

Thank you Greencar that was really helpful. I'm frustrated with myself for being frustrated with her because I do have some insight. Both from the time I was trying to make things work in the last year with twat, and my EA relationship before that. I do worry that this hard shell I seem to have developed allows me to cut off from people quite abruptly. I need to stop judging her. I will try and talk to her again, but only if she can meet me one to one. She seems to have lost her concept of personal space. I have to be the one to ask her teenage daughter to give us some privacy - makes me feel very awkward.

Apologies Greencar you asked how my ds was - he's fine now thanks. He can be a bit hot-headed like twat, and will defend himself, so it's usually a bust up, teary phone call, then once he's in the car he's fine. He's like my shadow, very close to me, which is lovely in most ways but I do worry about him.

Dusters and that he tried it on with you. Sneaky bastard and poor her trying to keep him happy. She will need to balance her DCs needs and her needs for this to end. Alternatively if she gets annoyed with his behaviour and starts to challenge it, he may find a more compliant replacement and she'll be free, as happened in my case. I owe his GF a

No date tonight. He has birthday event (male friends) then off to see family so won't see him for several days. I'm feeling surprisingly laid back about it. Think it's because when I think what's the worst thing that can happen it's that we go our separate ways having had fun, can't see WN tendencies in him so he can't twist my mind. Having had a controlling and selfish WN with regard to DTD I am enjoying being with him when we are together as I remember it can be fun.

He sounds great Lilac Whatever the long term outcome it sounds fun, relaxed, honest, caring - all the things you need and deserve. Brilliant that you can enjoy his company but also be happy in your own when he's not around - win/win.

I don't know if friend's partner thought he was trying it on. From a close friend who always did this it would have been fine, a kiss on the cheek goodbye. But alone in my house with someone who I didn't have this connection with, I think he just thought he'd see how I'd react. He's the kind of guy that if the future of the human race depended on you DTD with, well, extinction here we come !! I think he knows what I think about him now - I project my Jedi death rays when he's around.

Oh, and for your WN's GF -

Dusters he gives me the creeps and I haven't met him in person, making women feel uncomfortable to see what reaction he'd get, grr.

Have you sent a Christmas card to Mr H-J? Please do and add a kiss and note about "look forward to seeing you soon". It's harmless, can be taken in a friendly way, but he may be looking for positive signs and you can see what you get back.

Are you Mystic Meg Lilac ? Just what I was considering today, a card to say thanks for your hard work, best wishes for next year etc. He didn't come and do the work this week, I didn't expect him to. I still need to pay him some money. I keep seeing him out in his car though.

I had decided he wasn't interested. But when I last saw him he wasn't expecting to see me, so when he turned around his expression suggested he was really pleased. I'm so scared to make a fool of myself. I've got my nice little hard casing, don't want to damage it !

OMG !!

Just when I thought my evening couldn't get any more weird or worse.

Been texting my friend's BF. I do some work for him occasionally, and the times I do it we end up texting news, catch up etc. He has good humour so always a few jokes. He's been out drinking tonight, sent a few texts, and just sent one saying it's a good job we didn't meet up tonight "I'd have snogged your face off! Sorry just being honest !!"

I laughed it off, saying you've got your beer goggles on, but he's just texted can we meet for a coffee!! WTF ! He's going out with my friend. I feel physically sick.

Oh dusters, did you sleep much? Did you reply to the sleazeball about the coffee? It's not your fault, although I'm sure you know that.

The other sleazeball. I've been thinking about your friend and I wouldn't be at all surprised if, when she does (or has already) said she wants to leave, he threatens and manipulates her using the children. It's paralysing and happens to many women, me included. When someone has that much hold over you, it's impossible to see that their threats won't hold water.

HJM (some positivity!). I would think his spontaneous reaction to seeing you unexpectedly is the most honest one

Morning Greencar thanks for your kind and sensible words Yes, I texted him back that I was busy and that anyway it would be inappropriate. He made a joke about me not liking coffee, and then said if it was tea he would have texted the same thing this morning ? Bit confusing. Anyway, he texted about half an hour ago saying really sorry if any of my texts offended you. I said it's ok, not offended.

Obviously it's not ok, but I'm not offended, just creeped out by it. Lots of things over the past few weeks I can now see in a different light. I thought we were mates, through his GF, now I feel weird that he thought that way about me. I'm gutted for her (she'd like to move things on, he doesn't) he's spoiled our friendship and once again I'm thinking bloody men

I agree about my friend, I know he was doing the whole don't split the family thing, they'll be damaged, I won't cope etc. If I hadn't had kids I would have walked away from twat straight after everything happened. But I hung on for them as long as I could. I'm just sad for her today.

I like that thought about HJM, it makes sense. When I got that text last night I realised exactly why I'd been holding back with him. Because I am so fond of him I would hate to cross the line and make him feel like I did. I felt sick, worried, confused - I'd hate to be the cause of that for him. So, I'll bide my time.

Anyway, enough about me, how's things with you today? Your nightmare week has at least ended. Are you expecting to hear anything from WN as regards your gut feeling that something is brewing?

I think it'll be a few days now, keep me wondering, let me settle down then start it up again. Hearing something now would be giving me a handle on what's happening!

I understand that about HJM. I think you feel more sickened by the sleazeball because he's going out with your friend though. Poor her will you tell her?

There are so many reasons Women Don't Leave aren't there? I felt (still feel) sometimes that I was expected to justify why I stayed and that made me defensive and put upon, whereas when I received support and understanding I became stronger. My feeling is that the underlying reason, behind all the others, is fear. But unlike pure terror, this fear can be introduced so subtly you can't even put your finger on it or voice it.

That's so horrible for you, knowing just how calculating he is. Hopefully you'll be able to respond in kind!

You're right that it's sleazy because he's a friend, and going out with my friend. I can't bear to tell her. She's waited years to meet someone. Her parent died just over a year ago, her BF has been a great support, especially with her surviving parent. I have sometimes thought she was a bit of a convenience for him. She's wealthy and he probably enjoys her lifestyle, but I've felt she always knew what the deal was. They've been together a few years. If I'm prepared to put it down to drunken texting d'you think it's ok to say nothing? She'd be devastated - and what if she blamed me to deflect from him, that would be awful.

As for the not leaving and fear - I think that's absolutely spot on. I didn't leave my EA relationship for fear of so many things. I too was made to feel defensive, perhaps if I'd felt supported I would have acted differently. I do need to support her now, and not judge her harshly which I know deep down I am doing.

www.ted.com/talks/leslie_morgan_steiner_why_domestic_violence_victims_don_t_leave

I've only done a quick search about this, out of curiosity, and found this ^^

Guns are involved (she's American) but this rang very true with me.

There are also a few lists around:

www.loveisrespect.org/is-this-abuse/why-do-people-stay/

www.refuge.org.uk/about-domestic-violence/barriers-to-leaving/

www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/why_domestic_abuse_victims_stay.html

The thing that stands out to me are that everything is set up to make it difficult for you to leave.

Reading those helped me to understand myself a little better. Thought they might be useful to others too, sometimes seeing our feelings written down helps!

dusters about your friend, I don't know, I'm torn. The discovery that other people knew and and didn't tell you is devastating when cheating happens, and the fact it didn't go further is down to you not him. I'd want to know and wouldn't blame the other person, but that's down to the experiences I've had before. It's not ok even if it was drunken texting, but at the same time I completely understand your worries about telling her. Do you think you're in a position to keep an eye on the situation and if you see any other warning signs, perhaps let her know at that point? You'd have to explain not telling her straight away, but you have your reasons for that.

Yes it's horrible knowing that I'm being manipulated and a man who was supposed to love and cherish me is doing it! But, better to be aware than not. I've been down today, missing what we should have had and feeling very alone. If only he wasn't a WN (and if only I'd picked better to follow him up with, there's something in one of the links above about women who get treated badly by more than one man feeling it must be their fault).

Thanks for the links greencar, interesting reading. I could see quite a lot that probably applies to my friend, and recognised myself and my EA relationship in some as well.

Sorry you're feeling down today, sometimes the unfairness is just there with you and you can't shake it off. After last night I feel pretty crap. I feel cheapened by the thought that the BF thought I might say yes. I thought my twat radar was much better tuned! I'm quite happy being single just now but hate the thought I might be viewed as an easy target.

I think I can keep an eye on the situation. I'll just withdraw as much as I can from them both for a while (which is easily done). If he contacts me again though I think I'd have to tell her. I can feel myself minimising this already, so I don't have to deal with it

Received a call of an unknown number this morning. Worried me a bit, not sure if I'm overreacting, but there's no way of finding out who it was.

Should I ring 101?

Ohb could just be missed call?
Did you write it down - could Google it in ase it's linked with a business?

Dusters I feel for you as this is a tough one. Having been cheated on for months I'd want to know, but in the position of telling I'd still struggle. One option is to tell him that you were stunned when he said inappropriate things to you. Now you've thought about it you feel that he should tell your friend that he had things to one of her friends. She then hears it from him. You keep all records on phone so if anything gets twisted you have the truth. This isn't your fault so don't have either put guilt on to you.

Should say "he had said inappropriate things"

Lilac it came up as 'no caller id'

Could be a missed call. Log it over this week and see if it happens several times /pattern. I'd call 101 if it happened a few times, but not odd random ones as could be wrong number.

I was going to suggest the same as Lilac did Ohb, that is to Google the number. No caller id could be somebody you know who's recently decided to block their number from showing, they just haven't told you yet. Or it could be a cold calling service which blocks their number.

Thanks for the advice re friends Lilac. I've saved all the texts so no problem there. I've noticed in the past few weeks he never mentions her, and they don't seem to spend so much time together. Next time I speak to her I think I might ask casually how it's all going with him, maybe it's finishing anyway? You're right that he should tell her he's thinking/saying inappropriate things to other women, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't though.