They want us to pay. I don't think we should.

[girlinacoma]

Background: We have teenage children of our own and we are also guardians for a 17 year old "Ben" (not real name obviously)

Ben has been going out with a girl for the last 12 ish months or so (t's been a bit on and off) but they have known each other for a bit longer than this as were good friends beforehand.

His girlfriend lives with her mum and step dad and they are getting married in January. After the wedding they are planning to go to Mauritius for 2 weeks and Ben's girlfriend will be joining her parents. The issue is that Ben had been invited too.

To begin with, we said no because as much as would have liked him to go, it was a hell of a lot of money. It's not that we couldn't have found the money because that would have been possible but it was not the sort of money we have lying around.

Plus - relationships can be tricky at the best of times (particularly when you're younger) and there was obviously a risk that the relationship would break down prior to the holiday and it would be doubtful we'd get our money back.

However the girlfriends parents came back and told us not to worry because they had intended to pay for everything themselves (his flight, all inclusive package etc) but suggested he should bring some spending money (no problem)

They made it sound as if they really wanted their daughter to have him there as company so that they could enjoy their honeymoon shag-fest

So we agreed and obviously thanked them profusely etc etc as it was an incredibly generous offer.

Well now you can probably guess what has happened - they've split up and things are hideous between them. Nothing amicable what so ever and they are no longer even friends. He's devastated

His ex-girlfriend now wants to invite someone else on holiday with her (not sure if just friend or new boyfriend) and that is obviously fine and non of our business.

But her parents now want to be refunded for the money that they spent for Ben and want us to pay them £2100.00

There is no fucking way we are prepared to do this as the agreement all along was that they would cover all the costs (on their insistence) but they are saying that we have no proof that they had insisted on paying and so we should cough up.

DH's point is that neither have they any evidence that we had agreed to pay so they can get stuffed.

They have now passed 'messages' to Ben at college (via his ex girlfriend) to say that we had agreed to pay and have now changed our minds and that he needs to speak to us and ensure we pay them.

He is now incredibly stressed about it and seems to be believing their version of events and also thinks we should pay.

I've tried so hard to explain to him what has happened but he is just too upset and embarrassed about the whole thing and wants it to go away

He has approx £1500 in an ISA and has said that if we don't pay, he will use that cash and I just want to fucking cry.

This is a boy who has been to hell and back over the last 10 years, I can't even go into the details of what he has been through but 2 years ago I got onto a bus and found him sitting at the back soaked to the skin as he had been wondering about in the rain and sleeping rough for a few nights with the clothes on his back. He had been completely disowned by his parents (complete and utter fucking cutting bastards) and long story short - he ended up living with us.

We managed to support him through his GCSE's and he scraped enough grades to get into college. He has been doing so well but is pretty fragile and now this has happened.

I can't and won't pay this bloody money (DH is now facing a possible redundancy which complicates things and is a massive worry) so I have no problem what so ever 'sticking to my guns' as far as they are concerned.

But what about Ben? I feel as if by refusing to pay I will be destroying everything we have worked so hard to achieve on his behalf (our relationship for one thing as his relationships with most people are quite fragile)

I'm not a push over. I'm a very upfront, confident and outspoken person. I would never allow myself to be blackmailed or intimidated by anyone. I am too old for this shit but I feel utterly stumped.

I literally don't know what to say or think and I'm so angry. I need someone to talk me through this as I'm terrified of ruining everything that this amazing young person has achieved.

We should never have agreed to the holiday but then we couldn't really refuse. He's not our child, we have no legal guardianship for him, he could have just gone anyway if he had wanted to.

I am pissed. As in actually quite drunk. And also pissed.

I'm not even going to spell-check this and can't be arsed with smiley's either. I just want to howl

Sorry, I didn't think he would want to go.

But had he paid for it in the first place, say, and be unable to cancel I would be looking for ways for him to get value out of it eg flying there but maybe staying somewhere different.

I am not sure of rules for "underage" ISAs - he may not be able to access the cash.

Ben can't access his isa as he is under 18.

Ok you don't want to stop him from taking it out but couldn't you just loose the paperwork or bank cards or whatever

I don't mean really loose them I mean hide it somewhere then pretend to look for it iyswim

I know it is dishonest and sneaky but it would delay the withdrawal without telling him he must not do it to give him some thinking time

FWIW I would consult a solicitor and get a free consultation. Not because there is anything to worry about, no contacts were exchanged, nothing was signed. it's the EX girlfriends parents word against yours.
It just might make your ward a bit more confident that you are telling the truth and the law is on your side. They sound like nasty people.

Change the ticket into your own name.

Spend their honeymoon explaining why to em.

You poor thing. It's bloody hard isn't it.

Firstly I'd send 'Ben' a text, along the lines of 'I'm sorry I shouted, I'm angry at them not you, we will sort it out. Love you loads, see you soon xx' (or whatever your comfortable with).

Then TOMORROW I would send them an email basically saying...

'I am not sure if you are aware of this or not, but your DD is telling 'Ben' that you are saying (blah blah) and are threatening (blah blah). I hope this is just your DD being a typical teenager and trying to upset 'Ben'. She's certainly succeeded because 'Ben' is now (describe his state of minfpd/thoughts).

As you know we said Ben wasn't able to go. This was partly financial & partly because of issues such as this. However, when you insisted on paying for 'Ben' to go so your DD had some company we backed down as it seemed churlish to do otherwise. The fact that they have now fallen out & you are having to change the name on the ticket is unfortunate, but one of those things when you plan too far ahead with teenage relationships.

We really don't want to involve the school or our lawyer, but if this harassment continues it will be unavoidable. I hope you can sort this out with your DD before it comes to that.

You type well for a pissed person. Respect.

Bugger. Took so long to remove all the swearing & insults about them to type I cross posted with you.

I'd still send a similarly worded email tomorrow.

Oh god, poor you. Poor Ben. :(

Everything seems so hideous and overwhelming when love affairs go badly wrong at his age that I can totally see why he might want to pay them off, but they are being awful bullies.

I have so much sympathy for where he's coming from and how dreadful he probably feels, but of course you're trying to act in his best interest too, and paying them from his own money is something he would certainly regret later. If he's not talking to you then could you write him a letter/email and let him know you're totally on his side?

I completely agree with getting an aggressive lawyer on side to write them a letter telling them they're being massively out of order.

Otherhalf Dead right.

And don't offer ANY money for ANYTHING - this might be taken as a tacit admission that you had agreed to pay for Ben. Go to Citizen's Advic asap. Warn the ex-s parents that you will contact the police if they continue harassing a minor who has no contract with them anyway.

TBH, I would have thought that if the wedding/holiday isn't till the new year there would be plenty of time for them just to cancel any ticket/accomodation and only take a small financial hit.

I think it's important that Ben learns that he is not there to be buried by people who do not have his interests at heart. I think, as someone else suggested, that this is just vindictiveness because their daughter now hates him, and this is a way of getting him back.

The poor boy must be in an awful state - he had just got some love and stability with your family, and was getting himself a future sorted out, and now it seems that everything is falling around his ears. He is obviously not emotionally strong enough to cope with this, and his spending a night with a friend is an attempt to retreat from it all.

FWIW I think the fact that he feels he can argue with you and throw everything back in your face shows he knows deep down that you will stick by him - kids are usually only rotten when they feel safe. I'm not trying to worry you, but there isn't any chance that he will self-harm, is there? The poor boy must feel so distressed. Do you know which friend he is within could you get in touch if you needed to? (I'm not suggesting that you track him down - he must need space ATM.) it's just it's always a comfort to be able to do that - or know you can.

Anyway, your friend sounds very sensible. Enjoy your curry. Have ONE lager with it and then go to bed.

I would be astounded if the travel company wouldn't let Ben's ex's family change the name on the booking, especially considering it's still 4 months away.

for you OP, stick to your guns.

Ah poor Ben. I can see why he just wants the whole situation to all go away by paying it off.

Please talk calmly tomorrow and let him know that you understand why he wants to pay it off but that you can't let bullies win. I think it's a brilliant idea to get the police or solicitors involved so that he can overhear the conversation.
They are harassing him but he has to face life at school with the lies they are telling. Maybe, even though it goes against every grain in your body, the best solution for him is to pay it. He has to live with the consequences at college. It's easy for us to take the moral high ground but we don't have to face people at college that may believe the lies that are told about your family.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Hopefully by talking to Ben again you can convince him to stand up to the bullies.

What heatwave said, but without the bit about Ben being upset. They will share that with bens ex and she might feel a bit triumphant. His mood is for him to own, not for you to share.

don't give them a penny. And don't let ben give them a penny either. Would your very generous relative who treated him exactly the same as the rest of your children want him to spunk his Isa away on a holiday he isn't going on? No. Fuck that.

FWIW, you are lovely. Ben is lucky to have you.

I know this is just one minor point but it's not very nice to shout you ungrateful little shit at a vulnerable teenager you've taken in as family. Did you take him in because you care about vulnerable young people or because you want gratitude in return? I'm fairly sure it's the first one so don't mix it up with the second, however drunk you are.

From the facts as I've interpreted them, you owe nothing. It's a try on by the other people, who sound delightful. If it helps, I was a litigation lawyer for 15 years though now I do non-litigious stuff.

It seems to have been entirely their own choice. Do not offer them any money, do not concede anything, do not bother for example, arguing back and forth in email or anything. If they don't stop, instruct a lawyer to send an appropriate letter, and also add that any more hassle that comes Ben's way will be reported to the police.

I'm with legotits. Tell them if they want the money you're going on the fucking holiday with them.

I'm not a push over. I'm a very upfront, confident and outspoken person. I would never allow myself to be blackmailed or intimidated by anyone

So don't ! Tell Ben that the cost to change a name on a flight is small and that if push comes to shove , you are happy to do this , he needs to understand what blackmail is , because to my mind this isn't far off it .

Yeah, do not give him access to that money. You know he'll regret giving it away when things cool down.

Unless there is anything documented where they asked for payment for the trip upfront or you offered it, they can get lost. Especially when they essentially want you to pay for someone else to go in his place! Just set out all the facts - they invited him, they offered to pay for him to go as their guest. It's their problem, not yours.

Pepermint is right. It was an invitation and a gift, you don't repay gifts. There was no contract, verbal or otherwise of an undertaking to pay for Bens trip. There is no written evidence, in texts or email, suggesting you had made an undertaking to pay. Therefore you don't pay.

They are chancers.

Log a call with 101, visit CAB, and the ISA can't be touched until he is 18, so no problem there (prob stupid avaricious ex looking to get £££ out of a failed rekationship).

Give Ben a big hug, it is tricky being a teenager at the best of times, and its a steep learning curve.

not read entire thread but anyway - isn't it demanding money with menaces (by ex-gf harrasing him at college) and also if it's the parents then it comes under the children act, as he's still in full time education and in your care.

I would get legal advice on this; I would also speak on the QT to the parents of the friend he's gone to stay with - for two reasons. 1) you can check that he is safe and 2) he may (if you know them well enough to confide) take their advice above yours.

Yes, you do need to apologise for losing your rag with him but hell I've had to do that with my own DD before now - he will also see that even adults can get it wrong but that it's ok to admit this and to apologise.

I also agree with PP that maybe getting the paperwork for him to find out what the costs etc would be - if the tickets are in his name, he could perhaps find out what the cancellation fee is, do that and then get the money refunded to her parents, ,without going through them directly?

But for stepping up and taking him in and also to make you feel a little better about having to cope with all of this whilst hubby is away.

Last thought (as I too have wine!) - is he close enough to any of your own DC to be able to talk to them, and (if they are old enough) would they be able to advise him on how to ignore this?

i think if im right that if u pay for schelduled flights not a package u pay for it upfront

still doesnt matter u can gt the name changed-theyre being ridiculous

tell them u are seeking legal adivce and will be in touch they'll drop it soon enough

make an appt and taken ben with u so he can see what theyre doing is wrong

Mamaka what a fantastically patronising post.

Pretty sure the OP has already said that she regrets shouting at him, not sure what ramming the point home is going to do...

They sound awful. I would be giving them a call and warning them to stop harassing him and if they have an issue they need to speak to you.

Mamaka it's not a minor point at all - I really regret saying that.

He is a little shit at times. He's a cocky, gobby, argumentative and awkward little shit but right now he's my little shit and I wont hear a bad word said about him. Unfortunately for him, 4 other teens had got there before him so very little fazes us and he is often left wishing he hadn't bothered trying to wind us up

We have never ever expected 'gratitude' by the way for anything we have done for him. I hope he doesn't think I meant that.

With our biological children, I don't think this would worry me quite so much as we have a very close relationship with them and I wouldn't hesitate to put my foot down if I had to. Even if it meant upsetting them as I know we would work through it.

With Ben it's obviously very different and I find myself on eggshells a bit around him. I need to stop doing that as it isn't doing him any favours ultimately.

LynetteScarvo thank you - I'm right bloody chuffed at that