My brother doesn't give me what I want

[KellysZeros]

I wanted to post that my brother doesn't love me, but I'm sure he does, but he is incapable of showing it. I recently got married, and he didn't come. I do sort of understand why (it would have involved some travel and an overnight stay), but to me, it's what you do for a sibling. I recently attending his wedding (and had to travel). However, he didn't show any enthusiasm at all. He sent me a plain card with little text. It got me thinking he never, and I really mean never asks me about my life. Where I live, what I do, nothing. I think there is some strange family dynamics where when he was younger he was a bit jealous of me.

I don't think he can change, but I find it so upsetting. What can I do?

I think he sends messages and photos of his daughter for the same reason I reply to dsis's texts with updates of my dc, it's easier than ignoring and and not replying because that would bring confrontation and demands to address the difficulties (which is what you are wanting on here) when I have no desire to do this. It's a compromise, I reply which is more than I want but the texts I send are less than dsis would want. By sticking to my dc as a topic if removes me from the equation and I don't have to reciprocate interest in dsis's life because I share nothing of mine.

OK, play it your way.

That is such a shame, Kellys, it is awful when you love someone and they keep you at arms' length. It is sad and there is clearly a big brother-shaped hole in your life.

How do you think you can fill it? What could you do to help him see your pov?

Actually, I can see that the family narrative can be horribly skewed by you being the one with the difficulty. I have worked with families who have one child with sn and that child is the one who gets all the positive attention - because the child is doing so well despite the sn - and the other children have to sacrifice a lot to the family joint efforts to ensure the child with sn gets to be independent, manages well at school and so on. Sometimes, one of the nt children will have a tantrum because their needs are being sacrificed on the altar of the child with sn. When the sn is not very severe, that is the child who grows up happy and confident and who could go on to Uni and do well, while the nt child whose needs were not met distances themselves and finds their own way.

Does any of that sound possible, Kellys?

I think that there's a lot of projection here. Would be interesting to hear your brother's side.

I think that you should try to think about your behaviour from your brother's point of view as it sounds like you are jumping to conclusions too.

Your example about his behaviour as a teenager doesn't sound outrageous to me. Have you considered the fact that you were extremely compliant and cheerful and that your brother was actually the "normal" one? How long has he been living with the label "difficult"? Maybe his angry-at-the-world behaviour that you describe in a later post is the self-fulfilling prophecy of being labelled difficult? Do your parents still find him "difficult" or have they been able to forge a new adult relationship free from teenage labels?

Another example of you jumping to conclusions - maybe he sent you 10 photos because he's given his parents 10 photos and wants to treat you equally? His reaction "Looks like you had a great day." Is a warm response by the way. Based on your distant relationship with him, why did you expect more?

I think that some people have jumped to the conclusion that you're narcissistic because you've not mentioned anything negative that you may have done or said. You make it sound like all of the dysfunction is down to him but your parents and you have a part - especially if they were allowing a GC-SG dynamic.

Kelly he's 38 do you really believe that 20 years later he's still brooding about not having the opportunity to go to uni or jealous that you did?

I think he sends messages and photos of his daughter for the same reason I reply to dsis's texts with updates of my dc, it's easier than ignoring.

But it's not that - it's not a polite reply to send me 9 pictures of his daughter's first day at school. That's a lot of pictures. To me, given that he doesn't acknowledge my life at all (or only at the bare minimum) is some attempt to get acknowledgement that he is ok, that his life is fine, that he is seeking approval for the bits of his life.

Kelly he's 38 do you really believe that 20 years later he's still brooding about not having the opportunity to go to uni or jealous that you did?

Yes!! I will know him to make snide comments about school, or even say all the kids in his year who went to university were idiots - really, at 38 he will say that.

If he's so angry he rants constantly on Twitter, whilst driving, you're afraid raising this topic (or any topic?) with him will make him angry....

Why do you want to be close? That sounds horrible if true.

If you're planning to have kids and think he might be a bad influence due to his anger or even that you'd struggle to be around him without him disciplining / shouting at your kids, the best thing might be to maintain the distance now so those more difficult conversations don't come up.

The more you talk the more it seems you don't want to be close to him as he is - you want him to be less angry, more successful, less narrow minded, more like you and then you can have the brother you wanted.

Doesn't sound likely to happen tbh.

Kelly he's 38 do you really believe that 20 years later he's still brooding about not having the opportunity to go to uni or jealous that you did?

Exactly. That's why I asked if he wanted to go. Surely if he'd wanted to go, he would have done by now.

That I need to seriously consider the dynamics of our relationship and our family,

Good. Although, as they generally suit you, you might not be able to see what is wrong with them without listening (without prejudice!!) to what he has to say.

it may well be that he doesn't want to change or can change.

Did you know that Gandhi said, "You must be the change you wish to see in the world"?

Do you understand what it means?

I think its nothing too complex really I just think that the poster isn't a very nice person. People that are truly horrible are at the very least fascinating though destructive and dreadful.

I'll say it would be interesting to hear my brother's side. I concede I might be projecting on him, but I do know him at least for all my life.

I'm not saying I'm perfect, and I recognise I'm part of the dynamic.

Thanks Mitten(!) for your helpful and kind contribution to the thread - weird why someone would do that

I can see people have tried to help on the thread but you are determined to play the victim. Leave your brother alone and chill the fuck out, for your own sanity.

You keep saying you know him and you're the authority on him.

But if you know everything and your understanding is perfect why even start the thread?

Kelly Let's just say that everything you have said about your brother is absolutely correct. Let's just say that your title was just an expression of frustration and sadness that you don't have the relationship with your brother that you would like.

If everything you have said about him is true, then he sounds like a bit of a twat. If that is the case, then why do you want a relationship with him so much?

You can regret that you don't have the relationship that you want.
You can regret that your personalities are incompatible.
You can regret that you have such different life experiences that it is difficult finding common ground.
You can regret that you have different priorities in life that means you fundamentally find it difficult to connect.
You can regret that a different lived experience of your childhoods has impacted negatively on the relationship you have as adults.

And all of those would be perfectly valid concerns and you would have had very different responses. The problem was, and remains, your framing of him being difficult and him being the problem. You are not even willing to consider that your approach, or position, or starting point for discussing this is in anyway problematic.

I think the university thing is a bit of a red herring. But he did once express regret for not going, but I don't know if he wanted to go. But I think he may have wanted for the attention I got for it (and approval from our parents), and I do think it still stings.

Well perhaps he's saying "this is my accomplishment and I'm really proud of her. Different to your uni years, your Waitrose shop etc but equally important to me"
One of my sisters has a career that she loves,she thinks that people are jealous of her career but in actual fact her role is in an area that would be my idea of a living nightmare. I'm happy for her that she has a career she loves but am not envious in the slightest I'd need 5x her salary at least to contemplate filling her role .

I'm not saying I'm not the authority, what I said is that there are things I agree with, and things I don't agree with the picture that some have painted. Take the anger thing - I know my brother to be angry, and to shout as he drives.

Take the jealousy. I don't think he is jealous of me going to university per se, but I think he is jealous or some similar emotion about the attention I got for it. Which is why I think he didn't want to come to the wedding. Which is why I think he sends lots of pictures and messages of his children. Every day he sends my Mum and Dad pictures of his children. I think it's nice, but in my opinion, it's like he is seeking validation for his life which he doesn't think he has from my parents, rather than a healthy sending of a few pictures. And he can't in return offer any interest in my life (because I think it detracts from the approval he is seeking from someone).

I don't think I am perfect. I have my foibles and weaknesses and anxieties.

The family dynamics are interesting and he will spend every weekend with our parents and the children so I think he is not ignored by my parents at all.

I think he may have wanted for the attention I got for it (and approval from our parents)

That is an example of bad parenting but I don't think you see it. You see it as acceptable because of what you achieved but all dc should be equally praised for what they achieve irrespective of whether that is a uni degree or just getting a job.

Well perhaps he's saying "this is my accomplishment and I'm really proud of her. Different to your uni years, your Waitrose shop etc but equally important to me"

As I've said, I get that. What I don't get is that I can be in a conversation with him, and he will never ask a single question about my life in return. A normal conversation for me is that you ask about the other person in it.

So once he expressed regret that he didn't go to uni and from that you deduce that he is angry and bitter that you did I regret that I never went travelling before I had children that doesn't mean that I'm angry and bitter that my ds went. I'm more wistful and planning to go when they have all flown the nest.

Consider: "he is an angry person" vs "he is often angry". One is labelling him in a very pigeonholed and reductive way, the other allows the possibility of him as a more complex individual, with scope to exist other than and outside of the label of "angry person".

If he was such an angry and difficult person, then it's doubtful he'd manage to find anyone willing and able to sustain a long term engagement and marriage! And again, if he's that angry and difficult, why do you want a close relationship with him? You basically want to change who he is and have a close relationship with that person.

I suspect that what would make him "happier" is if he felt loved and accepted for who he is, as he is, but you don't seem to be able to do that. You want to change him, as you have said above - and it's possible he knows and resents that. You complain about the card he sent which wasn't good enough, and the text message he sent which wasn't warm enough, the relationship you have where he's often in touch with you but not close enough... he's generally just not good enough, is he?

In everything you say about him he's not coming across as a nice person. So why do you want to be close to him?

You say you just want him to be happy but your criticisms of him are so extensive - his education, where he lives, his contact with family, even the way he drives - that to remodel him as your idea of a happy and content person would completely change who he is. And it's just not possible for you to do that.

Which is one reason why you come across as lacking in self awareness.

But he's not interested in you is he? If he wanted to know about your life he'd ask, he's telling you that but you aren't listening.On this thread you come across as hard work tbh perhaps he doesn't want to make the effort.

So once he expressed regret that he didn't go to uni and from that you deduce that he is angry and bitter that you did hmm

Yes, everything I know about him was deduced from one comment he made a number of years ago (obviously that is sarcasm).

You say you just want him to be happy but your criticisms of him are so extensive - his education, where he lives, his contact with family, even the way he drives

Why would you jump to that conclusion? I've never criticised his education or where he lives. I did critcise his driving but he once nearly got beaten up because he was flashing wanker signs at another driver once.

I see that I do want to change him but because I think he isn't all that happy. Not change his job, not change his family, not change his haircut. I might be wrong that he's unhappy, I might be right, but I can't change him,