Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My brother doesn't give me what I want

396 replies

KellysZeros · 05/09/2016 23:27

I wanted to post that my brother doesn't love me, but I'm sure he does, but he is incapable of showing it. I recently got married, and he didn't come. I do sort of understand why (it would have involved some travel and an overnight stay), but to me, it's what you do for a sibling. I recently attending his wedding (and had to travel). However, he didn't show any enthusiasm at all. He sent me a plain card with little text. It got me thinking he never, and I really mean never asks me about my life. Where I live, what I do, nothing. I think there is some strange family dynamics where when he was younger he was a bit jealous of me.

I don't think he can change, but I find it so upsetting. What can I do?

OP posts:
flibbidygibbet · 06/09/2016 16:57

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Lorelei76 · 06/09/2016 17:04

Kelly, why won't you answer anyone - not just me - asking why you think your brother is unhappy?

maybe you're just really bored in the office too....

KellysZeros · 06/09/2016 17:05

I have taken on board actually a lot of what people say, it's just this thread has been an interesting thread in how people take what they want from it. As someone pointed out, I picked unfortunate title and a lot of people ran with it. Then I mentioned the world Golden Child, which opened up a pandora's box of how I or our parents must be a narcissist. Or maybe it's my brother.

OP posts:
Ninasimoneinthemorning · 06/09/2016 17:08

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

KellysZeros · 06/09/2016 17:12

I've answered a few times why I think my brother is unhappy, but I'll restate it again. He is quite angry at the world and you see it in the way he drives, the way he rants about his home town, or his local football team.

In my opinion (and I know him), I think his solution, defence mechanism, call it what you like has been to shut himself off from the world. He has no friends, doesn't go anyway. His wife has no family, so his world is their nuclear family, and our mum and dad. As I said, he doesn't go on holiday, and limits himself, so that he is not confronted with many things.

If there is a such as thing as Eudaemonia, I don't think he is in that state. And he is safe is his space, but I'm not sure it is happy.

I link his decision to cut himself off from the world, to not take any interest in others outside of his very immediate family with his decision not to attend my wedding is linked.

OP posts:
KellysZeros · 06/09/2016 17:13

Sorry, the last sentence should be "I link his decision to cut himself off from the world, to not take any interest in others outside of his very immediate family with his decision not to attend my wedding, as linked to his happiness".

OP posts:
BipBippadotta · 06/09/2016 17:14

Kelly, I honestly don't think people on here are saying you're a bad person. You're the one using these sorts of good/bad dichotomies.

People have tried to say that your way of expressing yourself often makes you come across as selfish, and it may be worth thinking a bit more about the language you use, and reflect on whether, perhaps, you are being a bit self-centred in your expectations of closeness with your brother - that at heart you want him to get over whatever issues you feel he has (jealousy of you, primarily) so that he can take an interest in you, be happy for you, etc. Because it pisses you off that you're nice to him and he's not as nice back. None of this makes you a bad person, just human and flawed like the rest of us.

I wonder if you split things into 'bad' and 'good' quite a lot. You are good, which means everything you do is essentially good - even if it sometimes sounds bad ('why won't my jealous, insecure, damaged, unsuccessful brother give me what I need?'). If that sounds bad, it must be because other people are hearing it wrong; they are somehow overlooking what a good person you are and reading their own petty, bad thoughts into it.

You are reluctant to admit any negative feelings on your own part, as though there is something bad about those feelings. I can see how you would be angry and frustrated with your brother - totally normal response! But you have been very careful not to express anything but kind concern for him and sadness at the thought of his poor, limited, anxious, jealous life. For as long as you are wedded to the idea of feeling only 'good' things, and won't admit your resentment and anger, I don't think you'll be able to have a constructive discussion about any of this that isn't at its heart quite disingenuous.

It's normal to be selfish sometimes. It's normal to be pissed off with your brother. It sounds like he's hurt your feelings. I think what's getting people's backs up is your determination to eradicate any negative feelings he (and we!) may have about you, because they are intolerable to you - as are any negative feelings you yourself might have. This can make you tenaciously defensive, and could be got around if you admitted that you don't like him much, and he's entitled not to like you, and neither of you is bad because of it.

BipBippadotta · 06/09/2016 17:15

(x post - in response to a much earlier post where you sayd people were trying to make you look like a bad person)

lasttimeround · 06/09/2016 17:19

You brought all these things (dysfunction scapegoat golden child dynamic and the constant comparison you seen to have going on) up yourself op. Then when posters point out implications of these things that you don't wish to hear you back pedal and try to discount things. Plus the thread title: you can't really blame us. 7th all right there waving in our faces. It's almost funny that you can't see it - as well as sad.

But nina is right it's time to stop feeding

TheLastRoseOfSummer · 06/09/2016 17:22

I don't know what the OP's motivation is for this thread, but I think that the apparent lack of awareness, and some of the more recent posts, indicate that 'her' motives are not genuine. So I have reported. It's up to MN to look and decide, but I certainly won't be wasting any more time here.

KellysZeros · 06/09/2016 17:23

Thanks. I understand that he may resent me - he thinks I had an easier adolescence, I do recognise that. I recognise that I'm flawed, selfish, whatever. I would like a close relationship with my brother, and I don't know why we can't have it. Any family dynamics are complicated and of course it builds up over time. I can't change it over night. I've maybe used some harsh language, but I've not been the only one guilty of it.

(To be fair, there is a bit of a gang culture on here at times, and it's not very nice to say the least. It puts you on the defensive).

OP posts:
KellysZeros · 06/09/2016 17:24

I can't blame you for misinterpreting the thread title, but I have explained it is a misinterpretation all the same.

OP posts:
KellysZeros · 06/09/2016 17:25

Anyway, I'm not going to feed those looking for a fight either. Thanks for all the good advice.

OP posts:
BaronessEllaSaturday · 06/09/2016 17:31

I don't know why we can't have it.

The obvious answer is because he doesn't want that.

SarcasmMode · 06/09/2016 17:35

I think sometimes we have to just admit to ourselves that due to the past, some things can't be mended if one of the people involved won't admit there is a problem.

My half sister blames me and others for everything. Never makes an effort with me. Didn't come to my wedding but I went to hers (although I had to stay back whilst my parents did pictures).

She caused so much aggro to myself and my other half sister (her step sister) that it's hard to even try to wipe a slate clean but whenever I see her and her children I'm cheerful, talkative and just act myself.

But she's not interested unless it's to do with Dad. There's nothing I can do with that really so I just remain civil for our kids sakes.

I think if a sibling holds resentment that resentment is very hard to lift.

Lorelei76 · 06/09/2016 17:40

Kelly, your last explanation has made me understand a bit more.

that said, if this makes sense, I know a few people who have that sort of anger - always a worry when driving! - but they are not unhappy per se and they do still make friends with people they like.

I wouldn't extend that behaviour to mean that his non-attendance at your wedding means he's jealous of you or unhappy. I'd also say that he did send a card - you might have not liked it and it might have not have had flowery words in it but he did send it.

There's all sorts of possibilities here but if you do approach him, I'd ask about being closer. I think if you go in with a "why aren't we closer/why aren't your happier" you will get his back up.

In your shoes, I'd definitely go for a more subtle approach because I think it's quite possible he keeps in touch the way he does because he feels obliged to and that's why he never asks about your life. Questions tend to come when we are genuinely interested in people.

BipBippadotta · 06/09/2016 17:41

But it's not a misinterpretation - it's an utterly unambiguous thread title, you just later said you didn't mean it the way everyone had understood it. If you say something you don't mean, and people don't get what you do mean, it's not other people's misinterpretation, it's your poor communication.

If you honestly can't see why you can't have a close relationship with your brother just because it's what you want (and it's clearly not what he wants) then I don't know what else to say.

KellysZeros · 06/09/2016 17:47

I appreciate I picked a bad thread title that a lot of people misinterpreted. I even in my OP said I wasn't sure what to call my thread. What I first said is he doesn't love me, but I think he does. I have basically tried to say I would like a close relationship with him, and for whatever reason, whether he can't, whether he doesn't want to, he can't or won't "give" me, or offer me that close relationship.

OP posts:
DistanceCall · 06/09/2016 18:26

OP, if you want to have a closer relationship with your brother and wonder why he keeps himself at a distance from you, you really need to talk down and talk with him about this. There is nothing else you can do (or any advice we can give you).

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 06/09/2016 18:48

I think if you have gone away from home for further education and have settled away from the area you grew up in, there is a tendency (completely misplaced) to think you've 'spread your wings' and seen more of the world than people who didn't move. This is not the case usually. In fact, my family members who moved away from the home area (I didn't) are simply doing what I do but in a different place. It's not really adventurous to move from Brighton to East Riding or wherever, and the people 'left behind' in Brighton may be living just as fully -and happily - in ways that appear quite different to you perceive as 'happy' and 'fulfilled', OP.

Let's face it, there are plenty of people working in the City who are lost, desperately insecure, paranoid, angry at the world and hopeless at relationships. Your brother sounds perfectly functional. Just a different character type to you.

I feel for your brother because I have siblings who are very high-flyers. They come home and don't know exactly what to ask me to hear about my life. And I don't have stories as exotic as theirs. And I have used my equally good brains to earn as much as they do. They would probably consider that they had limited themselves if they were to live my life. But I don't feel that way. And the emptiness that my siblings may perceive about my life is an indication of the cultural space between our lives now, rather than actual emptiness.

When you have children of your own, I think you might understand better that life can be very, very full (too full!) on a personal level and look pretty dull to an outsider.

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 06/09/2016 18:48

in ways that appear quite different to WHAT you perceive as 'happy' and 'fulfilled', OP.

Lorelei76 · 06/09/2016 19:05

gone "When you have children of your own, I think you might understand better that life can be very, very full (too full!) on a personal level and look pretty dull to an outsider."

er, I don't think anyone needs children in order to see that. You need an open mind in the first place, that's all.

Shakey15000 · 06/09/2016 19:18

You know, I'm not sure why some have challenged you. He could simply be an arse of a person and not like you for reasons he has decided. Equally you could not be very nice, we just don't know.

Either way, because you want to keep in touch with him, I'd maintain minimum contact. And seriously stop trying to analyse it Grin

Isetan · 06/09/2016 19:43

Close relationships aren't bestowed on people, theyre have to be something of mutual benefit for both parties and simply being siblings, clearly isn't enough or you'd be best buds already.

You expect a close relationship (whatever your definition of that is) but it doesn't appear you're particularly interested in earning it.

Memoires · 06/09/2016 19:46

You know what a Freudian slip is? It's kind of what you're doing all through this thread. Every word we say, how we choose to express ourselves, why we use one word instead of another word to express similar things, and so on, all of that is very revealing. OP, there are some very experienced people here who are adept at recognising what the linguistic choices of posters can (and generally do) indicate.

You've actually just had a very cheap counselling session, which you are resisting. You say something and when someone questions your chosen means of expression you twist yourself into knots insisting that you didn't mean that, you meant something else. The worst one is your thread title which is very revealing, even to me.

No one, but no one would see that as a reasonable title, the way you encapsulate your problem, unless that were indeed the heart of their problem. If they are used to getting people's approval, without much effort, then you are less likely to notice what that title actually expresses. If they are the favoured child and are thinking within the family context, they are even less likely to see a problem with that title.

You show a pretty consistent attitude throughout this thread tbh. You say something which is actually quite revealing, people respond to it, you twist.

I know you think that you self-reflect, but is that basking in your parents' and husband's approval? Anyone can do that, and draw the conclusion that they're pretty OK. This is why counsellor's are so useful. Most people prefer to stick around people who like them, and so often don't really have to think far beyond that. In the old days, before everone had to be PC, tolerant, be careful of the dreaded grievance procedures/bullying policies etc, one would hear at work how one really came across, as one's colleagues didn't have to do more than work with you and were perfectly able to dislike one intensely if they so wished. So it was perfectly possible to be confronted by one's vices/unlikability often enough to ensure that a difficult person would have no illusions over the ways they could do better. This clearly had drawbacks, but there were advantages too. A fairly normal work story would be "do you know, so-and-so said such-and-such to me today" while friends or family rock with laughter saying "no kidding!" (an indication that goodness yes you are exactly like that!), and it was no big deal. You could work on that aspect of yourself or not, but at least you were aware of it being there, and when things like "my brother doesn't seem to like me much" occur to you, you could dig out whatever that thing was that everyone laughed about, and examine how much that might have to do with your brother's attitude towards you, and then ask other people if you need to.

What you're doing, despite all the posters attempts to make you aware of how you might be coming across, is insist that no you're not like that, and despite your rejection, posters are still trying to say "well, are you sure you're not like that, because that is how you're coming across" and you are saying "no I'm not coming across like that. You are reading the wrong meanings into the words I use". But they are the words you chose to use, and they come across badly.

So your next bit of self-searching introspection, could start there perhaps.