So I've found out DH is still in contact with OW

[LippyLiz]

Meant to be reconciling, which hasn't been going too bad, not perfect, but not bad. I've come on holiday with DDs. He wanted to come and I wouldn't let him. I've been having second thoughts about him (on and off) whilst away. Yesterday I was texting his closest friend whose been trying to talk sense into him. He told me that DH is still in contact with OW and he wants to be with her. He's been using a spare phone. I'm devastated. I know he hasn't seen her for weeks as she lives so far away. She was also meant to be reconciling with her DH with whom I'm in contact with. I text DH and told him it was over, no going back. Not a single response back.

I'm so confused as to why two people who were caught out having an affair would go back to their DPs and then continue to contact each other, knowing that we'd be over if they were caught. I'm so sad, everyone was right about him. I don't feel stupid, just sad

Got home. DH has gone to stop at his mates tonight. He wasn't here when we got back. On the plane I remembered in the back of my mind the night this month where I'd gone for an early night and got back up for a drink. DH was up and when I walked into the living room it looked as though he dropped something onto the sofa. I sort of looked at him and he said that nothing had dropped. I looked puzzled when I came back from the kitchen and he said there was nothing, just his (usual) phone. Looking back, it was probably his other phone.

We've got back and he's been shopping to tesco, tidied the house, left the lamps on in all the rooms and left a note saying he loves us and misses us. I've burst into tears and now I'm questioning everything.

Why ? Because he tidied up a bit and scribbled a few pretty words on some paper ?

Yes. I suppose.... He's never done anything like this before. It's making me doubt myself. My mind was clear... Talk sense to me. I do t understand why he'd bother.

So he can still be The Good Guy in his own head. It's important to some people, even if they are deluding themselves.

He can't be "all bad" can he if he leaves the place looking nice for you. The thing is, you could do that for yourself. You could pay someone to tidy up. Does it fundamentally change a thing ?

No and you're right he does like to say things like 'I'm not all bad', or 'I'm not always selfish' if he does something for me, which's rare. I absolutely hate him messing with my mind.

Liz He's selfish, he's mean, self-serving, and trying to make himself out to be gracious, for dusting a sideboard and then saying how sad he is. Because he's hurt his family, because he's hurt you...he's making it all about him. When it really isn't.
You're worth so much more.

He knows how to pull your strings, Liz. He's been doing it for years. Time to stop letting him.

A good nights rest is what I need.

In hindsight I should've held on responding to the news he was in touch with her, so that I could search for evidence when I got back but now my chance to do that may have been blown, all cos I'm highly strung at the mo. I could kick myself. If only I'd waited,

Were you able to find the phone OP?

Oops just saw the time, I hope you're able to find something to get closure.

I understand why you're feeling like you're having a wobble. I'd see the cleaning as an indicator of guilt, not love, especially if he doesn't normally do that kind of thing.

I'm not in a good position to give advice, because I'm in a similar position, but I'm rooting for you. Stay angry and stay strong.

I think you need to talk. Although his friend has said what he's said, you really need to hear it from your husband and his reasons, which have a 1% chance of being innocent but still.

Try not be dispassionate rather than angry. Anger is an unstable emotion and not necessarily based in reason. So makes you liable to switching between anger and regret throwing him out/ taking him back. Dispassionate is better, allowing you to think without emotion holding sway. You cannot trust your emotions right now. You need your head.

Remember you're not reacting now, you're the one making choices for you. What could he possibly write on a piece of paper that would counter act everything that he's done and all the lies that have left his mouth.

He chose those actions. You get to chose yours. You get to chose not to stay with an oxygen thief. No more what does he think, what are they doing, he said this....now it's I think, I say, I want...

Deep breaths, and remember you don't have to respond immediately to the things he may say. It's OK to say, I need time to think about that etc.

I'm feeling a bit better this morning.

I'd have loved him to have done these things pre-affair. It brought tears to my eyes because since the affair, that kind of thought is all I wanted but obviously I now question why he's done it.

I know he doesn't like conflict or aggressive behaviour from me (which in his mind is if I even snap at him) but I keep reminding myself that he's not once responded to my last text telling him I know that they're still in touch, that's he's the lowest of the low and that I hope the pair of them are fucking miserable. That was last Friday and I was obviously hurt and angry. Neither has he been in contact with either DD since Saturday morning. One DD was off with him over text but the other was nice,

It saddened the eldest that he wasn't home to see them last night but I had forewarned her that he may not be.

He's trying to throw you off the scent and it's working Liz. Tidying up and love you notes are nothing. What he wants is to stay married for now and continue his affair. If he can convince you he's sorry and it's over then he's back in business.

I've asked his friend again if he's absolutely unequivocally sure. He's just responded yes.

I'm raging (again) but I'm back on track. He's a narcissist in the biggest sense and I don't know how he can play tricks with the girls minds like this, never mind my mind.

Was one of your daughter's off with him about the revelation that he's still in touch with the OW?

Kind of in the sense that they both know their dad has upset me because they saw me crying when I found out. They've guessed it's something to do with OW but I've not spoken about it, but they're not daft and they've asked the question 'is he talking to her again'. I've said I don't know.

This particular DD is like her dad, strong willed and stubborn. She saw his texts to her before DDay and didn't tell me because she didn't want to upset me. She tackled him about it herself over text but he ignored her. In the 2 weeks he'd been back, he's made massive attempts to form a big bond with her. He's taken her to the cinema, played console games with her, watched movies with her nightly. All the things he should've been doing for years but never did. She feels very hurt about what he's doing. He's messing with her mind too and she knows it. She's very intuitive and I'm furious on her behalf. She's only 11, but an old 11 year old

But how long do you think he'd be able to keep it up, the pretence that he's now loving and thoughtful. That isn't him. It's telling to me that he made himself scarce. He's hoping that you'll see his little bit of an effort and cool down as AF said.

It's very hard to think about your choices when you've spent so many years sharing those things. I found melody beatie books were very good, it helped me to focus more on me...if that makes sense.

He couldn't keep it up. I know this, I've tried to end it a few times recently, he says all the right things and does them too for about a day, then it tails off. I'm so grateful to you all for making me see sense. Without this support he could've been back by now. And in control. Again.

I just don't understand why he doesn't just leave for good. Surely all this must be stressful for him

Why doesn't he leave for good? Because as Sandy says, he wants a family life and the thrill of a long distance relationship.

Up until now, he's had this.

It's going to take a lot more than a tidy up and switching a few lamps on, but he knows you well, thinks he can throw in a few kind gestures, scribble a note, show a bit of remorse, get you back where he wants you, then he can go back to having his great big cake and enjoying every bite. My love, he's playing you like a fiddle.

I hope you don't cave, because if you do, you'll be back to square one within months. The pain of the last few days will be repeated, intensified. I think you asked his friend again, because you wanted the friend to say he had doubts, then you could fool yourself, and justify giving him yet another chance.

You don't need to find a phone, question his friend, or anything.

You don't need an excuse to throw him out. You have tried so hard and forgiven so much. That's why he didn't bother replying to your text at the weekend, he thinks he's got you where he wants you.
For your sake and your kids - show him he hasn't.

I will not cave, I'm strong again. I knew his friend would say it was true. I start with doubts though and just need reassurance and perspective to get back on track. I used to be so self assured and now I feel like a kid, questioning actions and motives

Your self confidence has taken a knocking, because of what he's done. You doubt yourself, you doubt your own judgement, because some one you love and trust has lied and let you down. I get that, I was like that.

Your confidence will grow, you'll get back to your old assertive self.

Everything you feel is natural, but trust yourself and be strong. You are your own best friend. Fast forward ten, twenty years, imagine your daughter in a marriage like yours. Visualise it, would you think it was ok, that she should put up with it?. I bet you'd move heaven and earth to support her, to help her leave, I know I would. So do it now for yourself.

You are worth so much more, lead by example, show your kids to have standards, to expect the best, and not to think being treated like you currently are, is acceptable.

I think you're doing well. When you see him, you'll get a lot of empty words, promises etc., see them for what they are, him trying to keep the life he has with you, and his secret life with OW.

Most of all, be proactive, not reactive.

I wish you well x

Thank you Cary X