To think DH needs to live away for a week or so? Pushed DD pretty hard.

[Namechanged55]

I have changed my username. You have helped me with so much lately, so thought I'd ask for more advice.

We have 2 DDs, one is 12 and one is 14. To be honest, someone may remember one of my threads, but that's okay as I changed my username for that too.

DD2 was adopted when she was younger, 4 years old to be exact. Things have been going well, relatively, we have been having some inappropriate behaviour towards DH though which we have been seeking help for, since my other thread (thank you!) and we are taking those steps. However, DH literally lost it last night. Called her 'messed up' and pushed her off him (not at all supposed to be the way he deals with it obviously) but then cried about how he was really wrong to me and just wants to help DD2 but he's finding it difficult and I do not blame him, all the inappropriate behaviour (sexually, not going into details, because of the weirdos) is aimed at him, he has been able to deal with it relatively well so far and for the last couple of days has been following some advice we have gotten (still need lots more meetings though).

Anyway, enough of that really.

I have then been explaining to DH that he needs to spend a little bit of time away (we haven't been advised against this btw) but he will need to still come out on family days out etc so it still works as a family and we work together, but I mean when we are at home, he should just stay with a family member. DD2 is rightly so absolutely gutted, she's really upset and it hasn't helped her at all (I know we all make mistakes but it's a bit frustrating that DH did that as it has completely sent now more mixed messages to DD2).

By a hard push, I don't mean slammed into a wall, gosh no. He hasn't got a bad temper, it's just he pushed her off like he would if she was an adult, which was completely not proportionate, as she's a small 12 year old.

Oh, I don't know. He is now having the hump with me. I just don't know if I'm being unreasonable to say he needs to stay away for a few days, while I build up DD's self esteem again. Like I say, he'll still come out for days out.

Hi all

Thanks for the reports about this one.

We're going to move this thread to Relationships shortly.

Can we give a little reminder that we don't tolerate personal attacks on the boards and are going through the thread removing posts which we feel break Talk Guidelines

in the nicest possible way, I think the DD needs to be removed from the situation - not permanently, but temporarily while she gets psychiatric care. She may do better in a residential psychiatric facility for a while if she is experiencing such disturbing behaviour that is linked to trauma. this is more than a family can help with, she needs professional help. Being 12 doesn't make her incapable of doing wrong, plenty of younger children have done very bad things and imo this is a pretty bad thing. Even if she doesn't understand it as bad, she needs professional treatment to get her to the stage where she does recognize that it is bad behaviour.

this would also be best for DH and OP's other DD. If OP's DD12 was a DS and he was behaving sexually inappropriately to her DD14 this thread would be very different. Also if the DD keeps doing this and starts doing it to others outside of the home then she will soon be at an age where she is committing a crime. this needs to be addressed now with the best interests of everyone.

Why don't you go away with DD2 and build up her self esteem, rather than kick hubby out. If he feels unsupported by you, this could lead to your marriage breaking down.

You need to send DD a very clear message she can't do what she's doing.

I really feel sorry for your DH. He can't win.

I think asking him to leave would be very bad idea.
I do not mean this as a personal attack as I'm sure this is really difficult for you, but this is my experience of mentalities similar to yours. My DM was a very nasty piece of work, she would be nice one minute and next she would be calling me every name under the sun and saying she was going to put me in care. My DF was interested in a quiet life and after nearly 15 years with DM I don't blame him, but he would always tell me to not respond to her (which made her worse) and to try and be sympathetic because she'd had a difficult childhood (which she did). DF and I are no longer close. I love him, and I don't have any of the hatred I have for DM, but in some ways I think I still resent him for making me feel like I was the issue, I was the bad guy.
Your DD needs to learn where the boundaries are and I think she needs to learn them soon, I appreciate she's had it rough but rejecting her as a lover is very different to rejecting her as a daughter, as PPs have said. I also think that you need to stand firm with your DH because your DD was in the wrong on this occasion. I think trying to excuse her behaviour will only end badly for her and for your relationship with DH. Just my two pence.

I agree 100% with the previous poster (UnderslungBowlingBall in case someone else posts before I post this) and also can't help wondering how your other daughter is coping with this going on. It cab't be easy for her either.

I suppose the OP is not reading anymore though, as she says she has hidden the thread. I can only hope this family gets the help it needs soon.

Please excuse typos above. I now have my reading glasses on.

I don't know if this has already been said but here goes. DD is a child so looks to others to set boundaries. These need to be made clear to her in a no nonsense way as she's old enough to be told. She should also be made aware of the implications of her actions. Of course this should be done with gentleness and mutual respect and as a united family.
I do know of families who did not set boundaries and accusations began. You sound as if you are supporting your dd and not dh. He is the one threatened and he shouldn't have to feel like that.
Why is he having to push her away? He was policing his boundaries. Has she been told in black and white terms she's wrong?

I have been reading the comments, thanks everyone for the nice ones.

That's a really great idea to take her away. DD1 and DH could do something nice together too.

DD1 is just fine, thank you.

The thing is, I was so defensive because it's really sad how I can imagine some of you imagining my DD2. As soon kind of sexual predator who's evil and 'messed up'. She is the sweetest, kindest most loving little girl. She is. She is just unsure by what love is to their father, she sees it as something different and you have to show it in a different way. She's had the whole 'people will say it's wrong and it isn't' lark. No, we do not know the full extend of her past, but we are treating it in this way (as advised by many talks and meetings with DD2, she can't really verbalise it all herself).

She would never jump on random boys which is not a nice suggestion that she will. It's a single love towards a father that she has learnt. It's hard to explain really.

I'd like to apologise for some of my swearing and rudeness and I hope I haven't offended. I'm not out to make DH seem like a bad person, he is the best man I could have married, but it isn't nice to suggest that you wouldn't blame him to leave, parents don't leave their children when they are in a very lost state. DD's self esteem is horrendous and I heard the thump on the ground (I was downstairs) I'm not saying his actions aren't justified but to keep them apart I thought was a good idea, I apologise. The way she talks about herself is really very said (recently in a explicit way).

I'm just trying to keep our family together. When we saw her beautiful little face, her little cheeky smile and the way she was happy around us, she was ours, it felt like I had had her all my life and she deserves every bit of trouble we go through to make her better again, and we knew that from the day we were told about possible future problems. She didn't and still doesn't deserve to not have a loving family, just because she wasn't treated right. We are her family now and we wouldn't turn back the clock.

I actually feel like my relationship is suffering with DD1 as I can't ever do things with just her. However, she is getting very close with DH and that's great.

Again, sorry for my attitude earlier. I'm just very stressed, but I know that's no excuse.

Op do they think your dd's behaviour is not likely to improve? If that it the case it might be a reason for the advice you have been given being so conflicted with the opinions on here.

If her problems are very severe it may be that the long term plan is for the behaviours to be managed, not improved or resolved.

She has had it outlined to her many times that what she is doing is wrong and had many therapeutic talks about how love is shown to father and lovers differently.

I will probably not be answering that question again, as I have addressed many times.

Honestly, at this stage we don't know how her behaviour will be. I've been told that we need to prepare for it to not get better, as she still doesn't understand this concept of father love. She knows how to love a mother and a future boyfriend/girlfriend in different ways to each other but still has that crossover with father, it's very complex and if you could just listen to her thoughts around it, you would understand that it's more than just "don't do it, it's inappropriate"

OP, I'm sorry if we've been a bit harsh. I don't know about others, but during reading the first 9 pages my view of this was very black and white, I thought you were just wanting to hear that your DH was a horrible violent person and your DD was some kind of innocent angel. After reading your last post, I think I was wrong and I'm sorry for jumping to that conclusion.
I stand by what I said previously and I agree with most PPs that taking some time alone with DD2, but I think I misjudged just how big of an effect this must be having on you. I know what it's like to feel like you have to keep your family together alone but you don't. Is there any way you can spend some time alone to relax, or anyone you could talk to about this because I really don't think MN is qualified to help.

I also think it would be better for you and DD to take a little holiday to help build up her self esteem.

I would be concerned if you asked your DH to leave he may not return.

And I think you need more in depth advice than social workers can provide here. You need the support of psychologists experienced in this area. You need this help asap and you'll probably have to pay to get it, but you need to get appropriate help whatever the cost.

Thank you, it's okay, I probably didn't come across well. I definitely didn't give my DH enough credit, he is amazing. To the PP, he would come back, that's him. He'd genuinely have a breakdown before he'd leave his family, he's incredible.

I'm not really sure who to talk to. I have phoned a helpline before, just so I could talk, but no where for actual advise on how DH and I can deal with it for our own emotional state. However, indefinitely wouldn't want to put help for myself over the top of help for our children, maybe I should look into something for DH though.

Again, really sorry for my bad attitude earlier and thank you for each comment.

It must be really tough on both of you.

She sounds damaged but desperately seeking your DH love but unable to do it in an appropriate way..

I cannot imagine how much pressure your DH must be under... loving DD ( in a very appropriate way) but not been able to show it in a normal way.I can completely understand your DH been upset been asked to leave..It is like a punishment even if that is not the way you feel..He needs you to understand how it has been for him. Can I ask if you tell him the lovely stuff about him you posted on here..He might need to hear it.

I am sorry didn't read your previous post but sounds like you all need more support..

My hear goes out to all of you and hope you manage to find a way for things to positively move forward for all of you.

OP I'm also sorry for saying you were only thinking of your DD and not your DH. After reading your last post I know that isn't the case and I'm sure you are at the end of your tether. Reading what you write about your DD is very moving and to be honest you and your DH deserve a medal for adopting a child who had been abused knowing you will need to work through their past and offer a hue amount of additional support. There aren't many parents out there who would take on a child like that that's the truth but your love for gel is palpable. I just hope that you and your DH find a way to support each other and stick together through this as he must feel traumatised by what's happening. I hope you get the support you need.

Thanks for the apology name I shared some quite personal information on your thread and got really quite annoyed with your seeming dismissive attitude which in turn made my (although true) last post pretty pissy

I can see from you later replies you are very stressed and must have thought we were trying to almost call you a bad mother which I definitely wasn't!

I know it must be extremely hard to see your daughter in such pain and confusion and to know it was caused by the horrific things that she endured which has resulted in (hopefully temporary) deficits in her development again I know that sounds harsh but having been there myself that's what it is ime

I'm years on from the abuse Iv suffered and even today still learn some things which I thought were normal but realise the rest of the world don't think think that way.

My advice for her long term is (she is very likely not ready yet, I was lates 20's) but is to help her access specialist trauma therapy (for me it was psycho sexual counselling)

My heartfelt wishes are with you and your family op [flower]

Forgive my ignorance but how has your dd developed this explicit language and sexual behaviour that you've described?

If you adopted her at 4 she was a baby when abused.

Perhaps I'm stupidly naive but I have nieces her age and my eldest is 10. They wouldn't even know how to behave and speak in that way.

I'm wondering how she knows so much.

I feel desperately sorry for you all.

Your dd1 must be suffering too.

Name does this behaviour happen in front of you or only when DH and DD are alone? Would it be practical for him to not be alone with her, to the extent of having a locked door he can 'retreat' to when you're busy or having another family member there if you have to be away? I realize that's probably not really practical but I can't see any other option until DD has had extensive therapy or grows old enough to truly understand or stop herself. If she's just not able to understand the boundaries it would be easier to try to avoid situations arising, iyswim.

I am not a professional.

Can your H do something with DD2? For example a game of chess/drafts etc?

Where they are sitting opposite each other.

All the time she behaves he rewards her behaviour with proper attention and being there.

If she tries something then he needs to tell her that she is behaving inappropriately and the game is over.

Repeat this the next day. The longer she behaves the more of his normal attention she gets.

OP while I am in no way qualified to give advise about your situation, and cannot begin to understand what you might be going through, one thing has struck me from reading your most recent posts.

Your refer to your DD as a "little girl", and attribute the same personality and characteristics to her now as she had when she was as a young child when you adopted her.

However, your DD is maturing into a young woman. She is not a little girl. She has grown up, and over the years she has been part of your family, her personality has developed. Her character was not freeze framed when she was adopted, it has continued to evolve - integrating experiences she had prior to being a part of your family with the more extensive life experience that she has had since.

While aspects of her behaviour and personality are no doubt attributable to whatever happened to her as a young child, they cannot be addressed in isolation, because since then, she has had many other experiences that have also influenced the person she is now.

You seem focused on protecting the little girl you adopted, rather than supporting the burgeoning young woman who is in front of you now.

Your DD has clearly been sexually abused & yes I am a professional who has supported children & adults who have been abused.

You cannot wrap your DD in a cocoon.

She needs boundaries & she needs to learn consequences & I am telling you know that if you don't meet with this firm limit setting your DD will go on to play this script throughout her life & make herself extremely vulnerable to further sexual exploitation .

Meanwhile your family will have been torn apart because her "self esteem" needs building.

Self esteem is very important - but more importantly is the ability to build & maintain safe relationships & learn how to keep yourself safe.

Sending your DH out would be extremely harmful. More harmful than I think you realise.

Your DH is accepting her & at the same time showing her that to be loved by a man/father - she doesn't need to engage in sexualised behaviour .

He needs to stay right where he is & continue to send these messages & you need to back him up.

I don't think you've read the full thread NoMud well you can't have actually.

To the person saying about me calling her a little girl. Come on. My mum still calls me her little girl! (I'm the youngest) and she will forever be my youngest. I don't look at her as a 4 year old of course I don't!

I have just finished reading through the whole thread - it's such an awful situation to be in OP .

im struggling to get over the anger and disgust I feel to think that there is/was an adult out there who could do this to and mess up a child so much My heart goes out to your dd. She just didn't deserve such a terrible start in life. Poor baby.

In the situation you described though it's your dh I feel for and have nothing further to add to all the very sensible (apart from tess, a regular MNetter trolling ) and measured advice that MN has already given you. Especially the people who shared personal stories it's very big of you to do that for op's benefit and I'm sorry about what happened to you

I understand what you say about it being a compulsion and that SEN children wouldn't get the same response etc. But I still think you already know it's COMPLETELY different, the child in that case may never develop the conscience to understand the severity of the situation. There isn't anything wrong with your child's learning ability, she has the potential to hopefully unlearn the behaviours and overcome the psychological trauma to become a happy, healthy adult. She is only getting older op. It's just worrying to think of the effects on your family (especially dd and dh) should this situation not be handled really well now.

Seriously, the amount of people telling me to put DH first is a bit confused surely we always look at our child's best interest first? She's also a a 12 year old. I feel for my DH and am supporting him, but how can I put him above our child?

Also I don't agree with this bit ^
By presenting a united front and supporting dh you ARE putting your child's interests first. It is in her best interests to be constantly reminded that acting on her compulsions will not provide her with her preferred outcome and if she is constantly aware of that it will help her in the future. I'm not speaking with any expert knowledge here so I accept that I might just be being naive to think this way.

Good luck with all of this op it seems you've got a long road ahead of you.

I'm just tired. I don't want to get it wrong. I feel like I can't keep everyone happy