To think DH needs to live away for a week or so? Pushed DD pretty hard.

[Namechanged55]

I have changed my username. You have helped me with so much lately, so thought I'd ask for more advice.

We have 2 DDs, one is 12 and one is 14. To be honest, someone may remember one of my threads, but that's okay as I changed my username for that too.

DD2 was adopted when she was younger, 4 years old to be exact. Things have been going well, relatively, we have been having some inappropriate behaviour towards DH though which we have been seeking help for, since my other thread (thank you!) and we are taking those steps. However, DH literally lost it last night. Called her 'messed up' and pushed her off him (not at all supposed to be the way he deals with it obviously) but then cried about how he was really wrong to me and just wants to help DD2 but he's finding it difficult and I do not blame him, all the inappropriate behaviour (sexually, not going into details, because of the weirdos) is aimed at him, he has been able to deal with it relatively well so far and for the last couple of days has been following some advice we have gotten (still need lots more meetings though).

Anyway, enough of that really.

I have then been explaining to DH that he needs to spend a little bit of time away (we haven't been advised against this btw) but he will need to still come out on family days out etc so it still works as a family and we work together, but I mean when we are at home, he should just stay with a family member. DD2 is rightly so absolutely gutted, she's really upset and it hasn't helped her at all (I know we all make mistakes but it's a bit frustrating that DH did that as it has completely sent now more mixed messages to DD2).

By a hard push, I don't mean slammed into a wall, gosh no. He hasn't got a bad temper, it's just he pushed her off like he would if she was an adult, which was completely not proportionate, as she's a small 12 year old.

Oh, I don't know. He is now having the hump with me. I just don't know if I'm being unreasonable to say he needs to stay away for a few days, while I build up DD's self esteem again. Like I say, he'll still come out for days out.

I agree with the poster that said she has some level of calculation. If she is waiting to get your DH alone then that needs to be addressed. Also maybe a sit down chat of exactly what behaviour is not allowed. She's 12 and will be able to comprehend this.

I would ask for another professional opinion. Your dp is not a criminal and has not done anything to be pushed out of his home for. To be honest this is one time when I can understand why someone would push a child. I imagine his instinct when she touches him in this way is very strong revulsion and he is probably trying very hard not to push her harder than he has.

She needs to be removed to her room every single time. I agree with other posters, your advice seems aged for preschoolers.

So if you've told her to stop, what reason does she give you when she does it again?

3 professionals are not wrong. It's the fact that some people just don't realise that some children can't be patented in ways that other children can. I'm glad Mumsnet seem to understand that with SEN children but obviously not with children who have been abused, unbelievable. This thread is going to be moved, I've reported.

Havent RTFT so apologies if someone else has suggested it, but I would immediately contact:

• Adoption UK (firstly, their helpline, but I would also use their forums which are excellent and the answers will be adoption specific. There are also lots of resources on the site. Use the drop down menu to filter).

• CAHMS (second option as they are less experienced with adopted children/ those with attachment difficulties). Usually I would go through the SENCO, but in holiday time, you may be able to contact them directly.

Do you have access to post adoption support or a PASW?

Thinking of you.

I think sending DH away gives the wrong message to DD and DH.
Sounds extremly tough

If she Isn't doing this at school or to any other male figures in her life, then she must know on some level what she's doing. Sending your DH away is only reinforcing the message that her behaviour is ok.

I do feel for you and your family op. I know a teenage boy who was abused horrifically when he was a young child. He now has a loving family who he is safe with but he does struggle with inappropriate behaviours around them. I think it tends to be a case of when he stressed or upset he reverts to these behaviours as he was taught this is how to behave by his birth family.

Of course he has been told plenty of times what is inappropriate and he knows the behaviour is but it doesn't seem to help him.

It really is not as simple as just telling your DD

I don't really have any advice above what other people have said, such as I don't think it's the best idea to send your DH away, but just wanted to give you

Also, I know you didn't want any advice with your daughters behaviour but I know the family have adopted the technique of standing up and removing themselves clearly stating it is not acceptable. They will also push his hands/arms away on occasions if needed.

I see you have asked for the thread to be moved. You're absolutely right, adopted child, especially those who have been previously abused, simply cannot be parented the same way as birth children. That's why adopters have to go on 3 day courses before they adopt now.

3 professionals are not wrong.

They can be, unfortunately. As you probably already know, or you will soon enough - abused children are often failed by the agencies supposed to help them. It may not be deliberate, but it happens.

The tactic that they have given you is incorrect. It is for younger children, and initial incidents.

The problem is that if she sees this as rejection, and she cannot handle that, she will try harder to find ways that he cannot reject her. If you go wtih the tactic that he leaves the room, that he moves, she will find ways to get to him where he can't leave. She will not see that as being a problem - she is a child, she will have the normal deviance of any 12 year old, combined with the additional needs she has as a result of the abuse. She will try to fulfil her need to be close to him, in a place where he cannot reject her.

I'm trying very hard not to give too much detail to avoid attracting weirdos, but I think you'll be able to see what I mean. And it's not just your DH, either - she needs this to be approached properly so it doesn't transfer onto other men. That is a lot more common than you'd originally believe - it can be mentors at high school, or favourite teachers, or anyone who seems a bit fatherly. Some of those people won't be as good at dealing with it. Some fatherly people could have downright dangerous intentions.

Please don't see this as an attack on you - it is not. It is a plea that you contact social services and demand strategies that are appropriate and work, now. Use the benefit of me and the several other people with experience here who have been through what you are going through, and know that you are currently being fobbed off.

Do you know what name I do know because I was that child and have tried to share that with you.

We're not telling you to be nasty were telling you because your little girl is on a cliff edge here just like I was and by not teaching her how to be appropriate and safe in the world will be a disservice to her!

I didn't have loving adoptive parents I had shitty ones who didn't help me learn and I ended up down the road she doesn't want to be down and took me a HUGE battle to get back from it. I will live with the scars of that battle forever because I didn't have the help then like your dad could now.

Sorry if I'm sounding harsh but im the reality and as somone who has been there im telling you that now is the time to get this stuff in place not later.

What reasoning is given for your dh having to leave the room? Do they think your dd is not going to be capable of getting past this because that changes the advice you would get completely.

I don't have experience of this behaviour caused by abuse, but have lots of experience of this behaviour following brain injury.

The advice you have been following is what I give and implement when there is no way of improving the behaviour, only managing it. Sadly often in these situations family breakdown is inevitable as it becomes impossible for the dad (in your case) to cope with long term.

No, people see it as wrong because it's advice that they wouldn't give. They're giving advice to use on children who haven't been abused. I've been on courses/I've had meetings/I've spoken to social workers, etc. I do know what I'm doing. People telling me that she just needs to be told, wtf? Can you imagine seeing that on an SEN thread? It fucks me off that people assume that she should know as she is old enough. Clearly don't understand the effects.

I personally think it's awful that you didn't want people on this thread to know about or mention your DD's behaviour towards your DH, but rather to think he is violent and verbally abusive to her. You wanted people to say that he is an abuser and needs to leave the home. That is lying by omission. I personally think that is outrageously disloyal to a man at the end of his tether who needs a your love and support.

Obviously I'm talking about you with the help of proffesionals im not blaming you as a family

"People telling me that she just needs to be told, wtf? Can you imagine seeing that on an SEN thread?"

No-one has said she just needs to be told, people are asking whether she has been told at all, and youve ignored them in favour of talking about her self-esteem. And yes, in a SEN thread I would still expect people to say that the child needs to be told their behaviour is not appropriate and to be told acceptable alternatives, so that they know where the issue is and what they should be doing. Even toddlers get that, along with all the other tactics and patterns to help them achieve it.

Social workers are not really what your daughter needs right now.

Have you spoken to a properly qualified psychologist? Or a psychiatrist? Can you afford to see one privately?

We do tell her.

I'm not giving advice based on children who haven't been abused, ive got almost 2 decades worth of personal and profesional experance of physically and sexually abused children and young people who are at risk of offending themselves or hard to safeguard.

Granted I now work predominantly with domestic abuse but that does not change my previous experance

But you're asking people for advice without stopping to think that of course they're not qualified to GIVE advice because you are in a fairly unusual situation and one which the majority of parents will have no experience in

I do sympathise with you but getting angry with posters is futile - you're in AIBU and again, you're asking people who quite frankly haven't got a clue

Talking as someone who has her own rejection issues...

I, personally, think it, behaving like this leads to rejection, would be a good lesson for her to learn, and the sooner, the better. Think about what it could lead to otherwise? Your DH is a good man who rejects her advances, but there are others out there who would relish a come-on from a young girl. Surely it's better for her to learn, now, whilst still young, that she can get love and affection by other means, while behaviour such as that she's currently showing will push people away from her?