support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh

[besshope]

Step this way...
May I start of with a great big ROAR of frustration at having spent many years having to co-parent with someone who (after he left me for OW) has gone out of his way to make my life as difficult as possible. I know there are many of us, so here's a space to share frustrations, tips and experiences.

besshope, same here! I've just found out from my DS that his father has found another job when I didn't even know he was looking for one; his last job offer was less than three months ago! I only find these important things out through my children, never my future ex. And all this after we spoke about it in mediation and I expressed how important it was to me to know, for the sake of the stability of our family life, when he intended to look for a job, move, etc. Of course in front of the mediator he nodded and agreed. How surprising that he has not changed his ways in the slightest.

One of the most important factors here is that he forced the children into this nightmare visitation thing when he had them from Friday to Monday and Tuesday to Thursday one week every fortnight. On changing jobs three months ago he decided he really couldn't continue in this vein. Of course the DC and I were more than thrilled but everything depends on his will.

Ooh Can'tget that sounds totally infuriating. Can you play him at his own game a bit and kill him with kindness.

My ex has the patronising, slightly bemused at his crazy angry ex expression down pat. However when I was able to take a step back and play him at his own game, smiling enigmatically and incongruently to his comments, shaking my head a little in bemusement he hated it

Not sure I could manage it every time but am going to try

That is the dilemma... Try to be 'nice' or take no shit from them..neither works!! They continue to be horrible regardless and DC caught up in all it. Really hard to accept you cannot protect them from all of it. So sad to know DC are afraid to.even say 'mum' around STBXH as they fear he will be angry.

I don't really know where to start. Ended up with 3 threads on MN that saw me through my divorce and ancillary relief proceedings. Ex-h left in Oct 13, found out about OW shortly afterwards, somebody we knew who I disliked intensely because of her behaviour around my then new husband (all the way back in 2002). She was very newly widowed. An absolute textbook pair of narcs, they set out to destroy me completely and almost succeeded. Of course, in their mind, that's not the case. I am "mentally ill". Such a yawn fest that we are described as such. I can no longer parent with my ex, he has told me he won't communicate, he will never co-parent with me. What he means is that OW won't allow it. She can't bear us having contact. We have a CAF via the school due to this situation which he has now withdrawn from. DS is 5, has ASD. Ex told me this week that I wear his autism as a "badge to gain sick attention". On the other hand, "I don't exist" apparently. Of course, Mary Poppins in bringing up our son alone. He left me on benefits and then halved maintenance to "teach me a lesson". I am about to take him back to court under The Children's Act to remedy this. This in turn means (and this is this weeks example), that I am bitter, twisted, an empty vessel, I haven't moved on, that DS will grow to hate me, that "everybody" knows I am mentally ill and that he will be "speaking to the authorities" about this. I should also look at the "empty space next to me in bed and wonder why I am so alone". Little does he know! Oh I am also a "parasite existing for one purpose to cause hurt and pain". All of this was after I cancelled arrangements with my family to accommodate his for a family party. I bought token gifts for my DS to take that he was excited about. Ex took them off him at the door and left them on my step. What an utter arsehole doing that to a child. He is obsessed with me "moving on". I suggest it's him with the issue there! He is very bitter as I took him to court for finances and was awarded 100% of the marital assets so he walked away with exactly zero. Now living off OW and her money, at middle age he has exactly fuck all. He is utterly utterly vile to me. I haven't always handled it very well but I have tried and tried and tried to engage him in terms of our son and failed. I am no longer going to bother. My poor little lad deserves so much better than this oxygen thief. I could go on and on with examples. However, we all know how it is! It makes me sad to read so many awful stories. What is WRONG with these people?

That is the dilemma... Try to be 'nice' or take no shit from them.. Neither works!!

That's it in a nutshell. I've stopped doing the horrible awkward handovers with DS2 and asked ex to wait in the car now. Easier on me and DS who invariably forgot something and ran off leaving me with him on the doorstep. Being nice and "sucking it up" encouraged him to think he can walk all over me, getting angry is the only sane response but also suits him as he can paint me as the bitter deranged ex who won't be reasonable.

Three years on I thought I would be able to get some peace but it would seem not

I've also found that nice v not nice makes zero difference! I really felt I was the only one managing a situation like this, and it feels comforting to think I'm not. It's so exhausting. Most of the behaviour described really resonates with me.

I've taken a mostly ignore approach for the past 8 years, as I felt afraid of the repercussions. The few times I've taken a stand have resulted in violence on one occasion and furious outbursts the rest. Following the violent incident, we ended up in the family court, which I think he enjoyed. Feeling like he was going to be proven right in court, and enjoying the power it gave him over me when I was clearly an emotional wreck when faced with him. He fought in court for significant contact, but in reality, he takes very little - one overnight a week picking up from school - because of his work commitments. It feels like it was the fight and winning that was most important to him.

This was a few years ago, but still feels painful thinking about it now, particularly in light of the fact that he's broken an agreement now he's overseas with ds (it's politically unstable in the country where they are, and I'd said that unless they stay in the safe part, I wasn't going to let ds go. He agreed just before they left but announced yesterday that they're traveling to the unstable city).

Looking forward, I don't know how to manage this relationship when he is so difficult and has no respect for the agreements we make. On the one hand, I think it's important for ds that he doesn't feel he's in the middle of a tense, unpleasant relationship between ex and I. On the other hand, I've had enough of being nice to him when he suits himself and makes unilateral decisions which potentially negatively affect ds. Nice v not nice, he still feels angry.

Being nasty back to the narc ex doesn't stop them because it gives them exactly what they want: a response which they can use to show everyone you're the bad guy.

Being nice doesn't work because they will just push harder to get the response they want so they can make you the bad guy.

I tried really hard with my ExH for a month. I invited him to DC's birthday and was friendly and accommodating. Even when he couldn't be there on DC's actual birthday (because he spent that day getting drunk and the night in the cells) so he didn't turn up until the next day.

He said he was having eow and half the holidays and I was trying to keep things amicable for DC so I agreed. But it wasn't enough. He suddenly decided he wanted every weekend. I don't think he actually did. I think he couldn't bear me behaving in a reasonable way so he decided to push me until I put my foot down so he could claim I was completely unreasonable.

onwego how dare he take your ds to somewhere unstable! Doesn't he care about him? Or is it just about punishing you?

Have a court order foof but it says nothing about travelling but my lawyer says the fact that I have our return tickets should help but there's a chance we'll have trouble if my ex calls the border authority. Not even his lawyer will attempt to reason with him.

I think he couldn't bear me behaving in a reasonable way so he decided to push me until I put my foot down so he could claim I was completely unreasonable

THIS.

This is exactly what my ex did at the weekend after I changed my plans to accommodate his outside of the usual contact routine (as described above). They want to paint you in the worst light..hence it drives them mad if you behave reasonably. My little boy had his token present to his Grandad taken off him at the weekend and left on my doorstep. Ex couldn't have that! Everybody might be under the impression that I am a decent person

Good point re try to be nice or Take no shit. My ex tried to take advantage of me when I acted reasonably eg he wanted to agree a financial settlement without solicitors but he was way worse when I stood up to him. He couldn't handle it at all and has done his utmost to make my life as difficult as possible ever since.

If being nice doesn't work and if taking a firmer line doesn't either, then it's accepting that the next few years will be turbulent and upsetting. Sigh.

Itsallgonetoshit, it's calmer than it was a few weeks ago where he is but basically my ex's view is that he acts unilaterally, no-one can tell him what to do and he always does the right thing. It's the rest of the world (including his barrister/employer/me etc) who are completely stupid and incompetent. Which makes having a sensible, reasonable discussion impossible.

Acting calm and detached makes me feel better but drives him to distraction and, consequently, to finding more extreme ways of punishing me. Sadly, the children get caught in his firing line.

I find that me being calm and detached helps my DC. ExH tries to drag DC on to his side by alteratively calling me names then promising them the world, but he's been an absent father half of their lives and when he was around he was angry and violent or depressed and isolating himself. When DC see me obviously not being bothered by what he says, they can shrug it off better. "It's just dad being dad."

Being nice certainly doesn't work so I've stopped doing anything beyond what I have to, which is hand the phone over to DD when he calls (most of the time she doesn't even want to talk to him) and have her ready for visits. I'm not going to charge up her phone so he can call at all hours, not going to provide food for their visit days (as he doesn't even feed it to her, just keeps it for himself and feeds her endless sweets instead) and I'm going to write down every time he's late for when we go back to Court (as he's appealed the Court order)

Grey rock/gray rock. Google it. It's the only way. And even then it's only limited in it's usefulness as we HAVE to communicate even at the most basic level due to children.

Nats, not sure of rules where you are, but in the UK if there's a court order than it means that the RP can take away a child for upto 28 days without permission from NRP. Without a court order, there is no such agreement and technically you are supposed to get permission although not sure how it works in reality tbh.

Yes. I decided to be very reasonable about him taking dd abroad, even though I was in bits as he had only given me a weeks notice. I didn't call or text. Dd told me today that he told her I wouldn't agree to them going until the week before.

It's this kind of warped reasoning that makes me feel like I m in some alternative universe.

Had texts all day today, he tells me a lot about either how crap my family are or how they don't care about me and he's been doing that today. Only reason is that I've called him on certain things he had said which are manipulating dd. He's also now told me he won't take her the final fortnight of school holidays as he knows that leaves me in shit at work. As if parenting is not his responsibility, I've said I'll be dropping her off regardless.

From what I can understand of the rules where I am Foof is that the RP has the right to take their children abroad and they don't need permission from the NRP but if the NRP has a good reason to believe the RP won't return to the country with the child then they can claim kidnapping and inform border authorities. I'm rather hoping he believes I'll cancel going like I last year after he pulled the same stunt so he won't bother trying to stop me. Then maybe send a nice postcard...

Just marking my spot here as I share a child with what I am pretty sure is a narc. And wow the above posts I could have written myself, it's strange because I don't think i could have put how he makes me feel into words but you have all summed it up perfectly!

Great thread and will keep reading

Saw this thread the other day and thought I must jump on board but forgot. Was reminded this evening thanks to an incident with the twat. God, these men are so entitled and selfish. What will stop them? Just had dc so upset because the twat decided to bring forward collection time at the last minute, for no one's benefit but his own. When I said no as it would upset dc he turned up anyway and banged on the door and phoned me (despite court order stating he can't) demanding I bring dc out, and then blamed me for the whole thing! I hate that this is the kind of person dc's father is. He will never be able to think of anyone but himself. Always thinks he's right and doesn't listen to a word anyone else says. Totally deluded.

I feel very guilty and sorry that I chose the wrong man to be my children's father. Life could have been so different for them.

Joining you all
Itsallgone I can so identify ...with exh for 20 years...so much acting out and drinking...but totally loved him
As things went down till...midlife cricis..ow...drinking...stress who knows...he left and did a total hatchet job his whole family believe I was the cause of all his problems...since been diagnoised of with PD and Bipolar..
Since leaving the family there have been suicide attempts, self harm and sectioning...he jojoed back ...'if he could turn back the clock...etc'I stupidly allowed this...in sickess and health....finally throw him out after drinking. ..verbally abusive. ..his family still accepting all his version of me the witch..even though he added out with them. They encouraged him to start new life abroad...I pointed out it's just changing the senery...he needs real help..but told I wasnt able to let go!!! DC been left confused ..i feel soo guilty for being sucked in. Anyway...3 months later he phoned really on a high..want to be 'friends'...kids to come and busy..me too!!.....a day later yes but rock bottom texting he want love long...blah blah ...and yes let a wonderful woman who is his saviour...I NEED to get off thus rounderbout...but its hard when DCs involved....
Thanks for letting me rant x

3weeks me too. I would never change my DC but fuck I wish I'd chosen a better father. But we have to remember that these men are manipulative, convincing liars and it's not our fault we were taken in.

My ex is such a twat I don't know where to start, but the stories above really resonate with me. I'm feeling really down tonight about the years ahead of dealing with him, and the effect on DC. I've just found out that the weekends he's not bothered to see DC he's been off on fancy trips with some woman (yet he always demands contact at short notice because he 'doesn't know what he's doing' and has no money because I 'make him pay' the pathetic legal minimum maintenance) and they've gone to her hometown when he has had contact. It's quite clear I'm being painted as the devil and on the limited information I have I can see the same pattern with this new OW. I feel so sick, I know she's not my responsibility but he's not going to change, is he? So DC will see it all and think it's normal behaviour.

And I worry so much about what he'll say in future, trying to turn DC against me. He's said many times he will.

to all

3weeks and greencar I completely agree. I feel so guilty at choosing this kind of man to be DC's father.

Exh told DC he wouldn't be seeing them this weekend because I wouldn't let him and told me he couldn't afford to see them. It turns out he's gone away for a two week holiday, no expense spared. He's too busy to talk to DC, but he found the time to text me abuse and brag about what an amazing time he's having. Tosser.

greencar I know what you mean about worrying what he'll say in the future to the DC.

One of the best bits of advice people who had been in this situation gave me was not to try to counter attack. I don't say nothing to DC about how I feel about ExH and his dickishness. Of course DC will feel loyalty to both parents, but ime they'll range themselves on the side of the one who is being attacked and defend that parent. I don't attack ExH so they don't need to defend him. ExH tells them horrible things about me so they distance themselves from him.