support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh

[besshope]

Step this way...
May I start of with a great big ROAR of frustration at having spent many years having to co-parent with someone who (after he left me for OW) has gone out of his way to make my life as difficult as possible. I know there are many of us, so here's a space to share frustrations, tips and experiences.

[momv2]

Just read up on non-molestation orders... better do some more reading.

[TheFormidableMrsC]

A non-mol is "preventative steps" ie : what he can and can't do and yes you can take it out on behalf of you and your child. I would change your lawyer, it really worries me when I read things like this. I know quite a lot about all of this as I am a self-repper and did all of my legals myself. I have been to solicitors with friends in similar situations where they have given incorrect advice. I find it astonishing really. Yes, please do...and speak to Women's Aid if you can, they are marvellous!

[nicenewdusters]

TheFormidableMrsC : Wow. Never was a user name more appropriate!

[TheFormidableMrsC]

Ha! Thanks nicenewdusters...I have to confess that it was a username that was suggested to me on my threads after my ancillary relief proceedings so I name changed...! Another lovely MN'er can take credit for that one

[Natsku]

Definitely look into the non-mol order momv2

You are definitely formidable Formidable glad your children are safe from abusive ex.

Mine doesn't go for overnights homely the Court ordered daytime visits only but recently me and DD's social workers agreed they can only be supervised visits for now which he refuses to attend because that means he's not in control (social worker also thinks he might be refusing because he doesn't want anyone to see how delusional he is now in case he gets sectioned again)

[Natsku]

He called after bedtime last night, after I'd told him we can't have calls on Mondays because they are so busy (literally no downtime, DD goes straight from daycare to gymnastics and then another club and then we bike home and there's just enough time for a quick supper before bed) but he still rang multiple times, even though I answered once and reminded him its Monday and past bedtime. Stupid fucker can't take a hint!

[Froginapan]

Morning all.

Some of your stories are just so upsetting. And frightening as I wait for the next hearing. I'm so down and demoralised at the moment, switching between grief for the man I loved and utter revulsion for the man he is.

I marched into the Drs last week and told them I wasn't prepared to live my life like this anymore: being vulnerable to abusive people, living with the fallout from a vile, emotionally abusive (and at times physically abusive) mother and her spineless husband (aka 'dad'). I never ever want to fall foul of emotional manipulation again. I was expecting to be laughed out of the Drs office (perhaps a symptom of continued trauma from years of psychological bullying?) and to be told that 6 sessions of CBT was all I'd get. No. He agreed to refer me to a psychiatrist and go from there. It's and incredibly long waiting list and then even more of a waiting list after the psych has assessed me but at least finally, after years of repeat visits to various Drs with various symptoms I am finally being taken seriously.

Someone up thread mentioned therapy they have been receiving, sorry can't remember who it was, but I wanted to ask what kind of therapy have you been receiving?

[momv2]

Formidable my lawyer is telling me that it will cost me £10-£15K in court to get a non-molestation order against the X and it is usual for ex-spouses to send each other insulting e-mails and unless I'm at risk of PHYSICAL harm I am unlikely to get a non-molestation order??!!

[momv2]

What arrangements do people make for their X to telephone their child?
My X says he will call at 7:30pm every night but does so irregularly then emails that I'm denying him access to child. I do not want to tell my child that his father will definitely telephone him at 7:30pm every night because he does not. I'm frustrated and fed up with my child being disappointed by inconsistent and unreliable parenting.

Do you get your child to telephone your X on the basis that if your child wants to speak to the X then the child can at any time. If your child chooses not to speak to the X then child does not need to? My child is almost 8 years and is perfectly capable of picking up the cordless landline telephone whenever he wants to!

Lawyer said it's a bad idea to put the onus on the child to telephone their father.

My head aches! I cannot believe how much emotional energy these narcissists take up and I have a busy serious full time job. Pass the alcohol please.

[momv2]

Froginapan I had CBT with a psychiatrist and therapy with a Jungian counsellor concurrently and it was brilliant. I paid for private treatment as I was in a bad way after the X's second (why I didn't leave him after the first) mistress stalked me in a series of deeply ugly events. The therapy was mind boggling expensive but I kept my job and was able to fund the therapy and I'm still standing in one piece.
I strongly recommend you get a well qualified psychologist or psychiatrist with experience with narcissistic/personality disorders as the last thing you want is platitudes or excuses that your X is hapless and be blamed for being hard on him.

[Natsku]

I answer the phone to ex at most once per day momv2 and call whenever DD requests it. If she doesn't want to talk I tell him that and hang up.

[TheFormidableMrsC]

Frog..your situation sounds very similar to mine. I had months of counselling thanks to a very kind and supportive GP. It helped enormously and helped me realise that, as you say, the man I loved who I was grieving for so much was actually an abusive man. That took some dealing with, I have to say. I am not sure I will ever fully come to terms with it, but my life is so much better now and my kids so much happier. There is nothing about him I miss anymore, not a thing. You will get there, I promise

[donners312]

momv2 - that's just a standard thing with these men. The make no effort to call/see children but it is all your fault they have no contact with the children. Just do not engage!

[TheFormidableMrsC]

momv2. Your lawyer is a twat, sorry. It will cost you zero. I helped somebody get one recently and it cost the petrol to get to court to submit it and the car park fees! They are free to obtain, there is no court fee. I cannot for the life of me see why you wouldn't get one given the circumstances you describe. Clearly, it is at the discretion of the judge. You do not have to have a lawyer there. You can go and do it yourself. I have self repped through 10 hearings and whilst it is nerve wracking, it is certainly not difficult. I think you should call Women's Aid and speak to somebody there instead. Your lawyer is using you as a cash cow and where that amount of money comes from is beyond me. My divorce cost me exactly nothing in the end aside from the my time, the emotional cost and of course photocopying!

[BantyCustards]

MomV - I second Formidable: if you are in the UK then your solicitor is talking bollocks about the cost of a non-mol

[BantyCustards]

Thanks, Formidable. I am once again at rock bottom - the children's needs are being met but inside I'm a complete wreck

[TheFormidableMrsC]

Banty...I do totally understand. Please do seek some help, see your GP, contact Women's Aid, do the Freedom Programme if you can. There's lots of help out there when you start looking. Know that you're not alone and know that it's temporary...it's a shit period of your life, but it won't always be like this. I found the key was working on my strength and I totally understand about the kids needs being met...but you want to be a Mum again, renew your family unit without the poison running through it. Counselling set me on that road...

[Natsku]

Agree with the others momv2 your lawyer sounds shit, can you look around to find a new one?

Taking up my kitchen floor today (major renovating needed because of a giant hole in a pipe and a badly installed dishwasher) and will be imagining my ex's face on everything I rip up and dig out especially the mouldy wall behind the dishwasher - rotten just like him!

[Natsku]

Might have to blast some Queen while I'm at it too

[ohforfoxsake]

Hello,

I've just found this thread. I started to read every post, but my heart is dropping to the floor the more I read. I ended my marriage just two years ago, and was divorced after 13 months. XH narc, emotional abuser, cheat, twat, opportunist etc etc. You've all met him in your ex-partners I'm sure.
We have 4 DCs. He will only look after them all at my house (the family home). He has his flat, and has three of the four stay over individually, one night each a week if it suits him. Big deal if he's boiled pasta or washed PJs, oh how we all have to hear about it. He walks around my home as though he still lives here. His entire parenting of DC4 is taking her to her piano lesson once a week. Everything is on his terms, he makes no effort, yada yada. Massive twat etc etc.

I know from what I have read I don't have to explain it to you. You get it.

But I don't want to carry this around anymore. I have nothing but contempt for him. I can't bear to see him - but I have to.

I want to ask: have any of you found any form of forgiveness?

XH has never, not once, acknowledged his behaviour,or that he has done anything wrong (numerous affairs, prostitutes are the worst of it, emotionally abusive and verbally agressive daily). Never any remorse.

How do you stop hating?

I want to tell my DCs what he is. I want to tell them how he isn't worthy of their love. How he puts himself, his ego and his penis before our precious family. He isn't worthy. He isn't. And of course I won't tell them, but God, how I want to.

I don't want to carry this hurt around anymore. How do I make it go away?

[Froginapan]

Formidable

I've asked for help again and again and apart from the measly 6 sessions of CBT on the NHS there's been nothing. Women's Aid were useless. I have a new DV support worker who seems to have more teeth but 8 months on I'm still no further forward with getting any form of proper counselling. I have a good solicitor at least.

[Froginapan]

Fox, I wish I had an answer for you. I think the only answer is time - today is horribly unbearable for me. I'm quite literally crushed under the weight of the hurt and pain. Some days are better than others.

[momv2]

Fox I had the X in my house on visitations but stopped it when he became abusive. "He walk around my home... " Stop the X coming to your home. It's your sanctuary! I didn't know why I was letting it happen until a girlfriend asked me the same question. Why are you letting that man into your home after everything he's done to you?
Getting a boyfriend, fit, new interests, venting to friends and laughing and drinking has helped me move on and get happy!
I only get stressed when I have to deal with the X. When he's out of sight he's completely out of my mind! He will never apologise and it's not your job to make him a better person or acknowledge the pain he's caused you. He's not your project.
You and your DC's happiness are your only project. I will call out X's bad behaviour. I have other role models for my DC.

[ohforfoxsake]

I'm sorry Frog, some days are impossible. I hate that we have this in our lives. Life with a narc is incredibly destructive, but what ties me up in knots is that they are so oblivious to it.

If I stop XH coming into my home he will never have the children.

I have also got fit, have a boyfriend, good friends, lovely children who are an absolute credit to ME. If I don't let XH in, I never get a night off and I might as well end my relationship. The arrangement is XH stays over one night, the last weekend of the month, during term time. That works out at about 7 nights a year. I get to spend the night with my (very patient) boyfriend. He doesn't stay here. my youngest still sleeps in my bed, has done since he moved out. She needs a relationship with her dad more than any of the others, she's had counselling, is quite a quiet girl. She hates to be on her own, anywhere at any time. I can't introduce my boyfriend because I don't want her to feel any more insecure that she already does.

I have no family nearby. XHs family are half an hour away, but they don't help. I don't blame them, XH doesn't include them or feel the need to facilitate the relationship of his children with his family. He sees them a lot on his own, but it doesn't occur to him to take the children.

I know he needs to have the four DCs at the same time in his 2 bed flat (he didn't consider a three-bedroomed, didn't want to 'rattle around'). He also moved around the corner. He did this so he had a sense of being close by, so he could 'pop in and say hello'. Therefore not having to make any effort. It isn't home to them, they don't have their own beds. I told him to take a big chest of drawers when he left so they could at least have a drawer each. He refused.

I feel really sorry for his gf (OW). She's lives miles and miles away (he travels a lot for work, he's her boss). Poor woman doesn't know what she's got herself into. I genuinely feel for her.

[Lilacpink40]

Hi Fox when my ex left for OW he said he'd still see DCs in our house. I told him he wasn't welcome in, he'd made his dirty, cheating bed and had to sleep in it. It took a few weeks but now he hasn't been in for many months. If your ex threatens to not see DCs say clearly and calmly in front of DCs if possible "they're free on X, Y and Z. I can make sure they have shoes and coats ready at the door". Repeat the same message. He can take them to parks, libraries, museums, his flat, but not your (as in just your) home.

My ex won't have DCs overnight to try to stop me dating, and his plan to visit house was to control me, but my mum helps and I'll pay for babysitting if I want to go out. You already know - it's just control, control, control!