Daughter returning to abusive ex. Advice please!

[punchintheguts]

24 yrs ago my dd married a narcissistic abuser.dd was first attacked on honeymoon, and went downhill from there.
*he refused to work, my dd was breadwinner.
*he had numerous affairs which he threw in her face, even one with a family member. he completely isolated dd, only "allowing" her to mix with his parents.
*he tormented me for money.
*dd arrived crying, saying her said he would kill her if she left him, which was what she wanted to do, just 4 years into the marriage.

• then he told me in person he would kill dd if she ever left him. *he deleted phone messages/emails/texts from me, isolating her further. *She lost her legal career due to his financial abuse. *I made a 4 page statement to the domestic violence unit, but when they contacted dd, she said she was "okay"(then proceeded to become angry with me for reporting it) *then they emigrated abroad, him on a work visa as dd was in the middle of a bankruptcy" *his "work" lasted just one week, my dd was reduced to being an illegal cleaner to get by to support the "family" home and children. *he eventually threw dd out by the throat (her ds tried to protect her but took a beating himself)and moved his new GF in. *dd rang me in desperation, I immediately went to support her, paid the deposit for a home for her and the children.(needless to say he paid not one penny in support/maintenance) *eventually dd managed to establish a successful business and support herself and the children. *we secured her house with locks and chains on doors as he was still threatening her for money and turning up with new gf.. *eventually it all became to much for dd, and she took the children, left her house and came back to the uk, and "hid" in a rented house where she thought she would be safe. *he would constantly ring me threatening to kill dd, but my GD heard him, contacted him on facebook to "leave nan alone ".he laughed at her, told her in writing he would come to her place of work and give her a good hiding, and to mind her own business. *he found her in the rented house, attacked her sibling who was trying to support her. *eventually she returned back abroad , and life carried on. he followed her, but was eventually deported back to the uk, and there was peace for dd. *he financially abused a widow he found on a dating site, she found my number on his phone and rang me in a terrified state. *he then managed to convince his ex gf to marry him and went back to the country, and the abuse began for my dd. *my dd/me and the children lived in fear of his next move, but dd did her best, supported the family home and children. *eventually dd met a lovely divorced man, who adores her. he is the totally opposite of her monstrous abusive ex. *I had a police marker on my home, I was terrified he would turn up and cause turmoil. *through the middle of this I suffered a stroke, the constant worry and fear of what would happen next. *he has a son by his first marriage who is virtually nc with him. his father died recently, his dm is elderly, basically he is alone now. *his dsis in nc, she suffered for years at his hands. *he has a gf of 3 years. why am I explaining what He is doing?

I was so happy last night .She told me she was returning to the uk after all the years away

I am in my mid 70's now, and miss her and the grandchildren so much.
Then she dropped the bombshell.
SHE IS COMING BACK TO THE UK, TO BE WITH THE EX HUSBAND TO LIVE TOGETHER AS A FAMILY.
I felt my stomach in the old familiar churning.
I told her she is going back in the lions den.
A leopard doesn't change it's spots.
Why, after the years of misery, fear, and turmoil?
She "explained" that even though her partner, who would "do anything for her", the adult children won't have the same relationship with him as they would with their real(abusive dangerous) father.
I tried to remind her about the cunning/manipulative devious violent verbal and physical events over the last two decades, but her reply was
"He Has Changed Mum".
I said even though he tried to destroy our relationship he never managed to completely break it, but be sure I don't ever want any contact with him again.
She said it will be lovely to have Christmas's together as a family.
I replied "count me out" I can't go through the disastrous events again.
She replied, if it all starts up again she will leave straightaway.

Am I wrong?
Forgive and forget?
I can't do that.
advice please.

She's rebuilding her life? She's already done that

Nasty of her to call you selfish.

She doesn't care much about your suffering, does she. As for calling you selfish, I've no words...

It's not easy, but to try and wrest your life back, reduce the amount of airtime your mind is giving to your daughter. Devote your energy to yourself and DH.

Kind of force yourself to say, no, never mind her, what do I want out of my day today. You have to keep persisting with this, because it's like turning a ship round. Slow and difficult.

It's possible she may throw some sort of tantrum, if she's used to getting her own way or having you focus attention on her. (People never grow out of that, I've found). So be ready for a storm if that's her style. But persist in detaching.

You and the rest of your family need your energy more than she does.

Whatever you say or do you cannot be there for her in the way she is demanding. She wants you to live a lie and play happy families. That's not going to happen.

Your positions are completely opposed. You can't be a safe haven, she doesn't believe she needs one. You can't be the voice of reason, she believes she is right. You can't be her comforter, she thinks she has an exciting future and, when it all crashes around her, I doubt you'll have the energy left to help her.

She has one life, she has "chosen" her path. You have the same, but she's dragged you down a very difficult one not of your choosing.

Quite frankly what does it matter why she's doing what she is now ? You can't do anything whatever her reasoning is. Your dh sounds wonderful and clearly other family members need you. What does your dd actually need you for now ? Only to collude with her in her sick vision of this man and a family home. It's heart breaking for you, but I think the only consequence she may ever register is if you say you want no contact until she's away from him.

Stop trying to talk her out of her decision.

Keep him and all mention of him out of your life.

thankyou
nicenewdusters, you are right in every aspect.

dd has chosen her path. Even after serving injunctions on him in the past, she eventually returned to play "happy families".
Actually, no, it doesn't matter why she is doing what she is doing now.

I told my dsis the truth yesterday , she is mortified too, she had personal experience of the prolonged abuse.

dsis was planning a surprise birthday for me this month , dd was included.
but it is all cancelled now, as I can't bear to see her face even, let alone happy hugs all round.

dd led dsis to believe she was coming back to the uk with her long term partner, never mentioned through the party discussions that it was her abuser she was returning to.
I feel as though I have been dragged along backwards by my hair.

Actually last night when I was talking to a close valued friend, suddenly I thought, I will simply go NC.
no reply to emails/calls etc, and I felt as though a weight had been lifted instantly.
then the mother bit came into it, so, nicenewdusters, you have suggested a possible way out for me.
to say to dd, "no contact until she is away from him"
(mind you by past experiences, I will never trust a word she says ever again.)
she has lied/tricked me financially/manipulated us all.
I have no intention of "trying to talk her out of her decision", no point, wouldn't believe her if she suddenly said she made a "mistake" and won't contact him again.
it's only been a week since she imploded my life yet again.

dd has instantly reverted back to the hard/nasty person she always was under his tutorage.(such a shame as the last 4/5/6 years we had been rebuilding our relationship free from his influence and I truly believed we were coming from a position of love and respect)
what a mug I am.
My ds is still there, but is planning his return to the uk as soon as possible.
i hope he comes as soon as possible, it must be mentally drainiing for him
He told me that the x actually came to stay with dd in her house a couple of years ago, unbeknown to me, , which dd expected ds to "make up and be friends". even after ds took a battering from the x in the past!

I don't think so.
so, another day, haha, can't believe my dd couldn't wait just a week or so to drop her bombshell until after my surprise birthday.
fucks everything, she always has.

she has lied/tricked me financially/manipulated us all.

Who is the abuser here?

You have a lots of other people in your life - your DH, DS, Dsis, DGC - concentrate on these. Cut the negativity out. Get support to clear your head and lift the burden. Look to the "radiators" in your life not the "drains".

NC sounds essential to protect yourself emotionally.

She is s big girl - she will be fine.

It is so good that you are opening up and telling people the truth about your dd, I think this is vital. Your daughter must be made to understand that she cannot attempt to change your mind, or dictate your feelings. If nc for the time being helps you, then go with it. You have to put your own wellbeing first from now on, and after years of prioritising her, it will be difficult, but you can do it. Well done so far, for what it's worth, I think you're doing very well.

At some point she has to own her own behaviour.

I too am wondering if she is actually abusive as well. It's just your gc seem to have suffered so much. She's stood by and watched him attack you, her step-dad, your db, her ds's, her dsis. She knows her aunt is very ill and you have a birthday coming up, yet chooses this time to start it all up again. Plus the fact she is cheating on her current partner.

I wonder also if she's been back with him for a lot longer than you know - if he visited a couple of years ago perhaps she was already in a relationship with him. Which makes me wonder about why she was with her current partner. Was she using him?

All in all, despite the fact that her ex (or partner now) is probably a psychopath, she seems to have decided he is more important than all of her flesh and blood. And to some extent is revelling in the drama of life with him.

I do also think that she has suffered abuse herself but the fact that she has flatly told you that your feelings are unimportant to her means you have little choice but to withdraw.

She is putting herself in danger, but that is by choice. That choice may be affected by some sort of mental illness, but it is still a choice that by law you can do nothing about. If the children were younger I would have stepped in to help them by speaking to social services or the equivalent in that country.

You can no longer protect her. You have to look after others who are innocent in all of this: you, your dh, your db, your gc, your dsis.

Go low contact and refuse to discuss him at all. That will reduce the power he/she has over you regarding his abusive nature.

Good post toptoe

Read that back and feel maybe a bit harsh on your dd but I really do think you would be helping her if you remove the drama from being with him. So if she calls and says he's lost her money, just say 'I'm sorry, I'm not discussing him' and leave her to it. Or 'He's attacked so and so' or 'he wants x money' just repeat the same phrase.

That way she won't get any positive emotions from being with him. Could be that her esteem is so low she's taking the drama from the relationship and using that to get an emotional response from people to feed her esteem.

As I said earlier, she's passing on the abuse. Good idea to not talk to about him ever ever again. Don't feed her drama.

In fact if she brings him or the relationship up in conversation just say 'we can't talk about that/him or we are going to fall out badly. Yes your new hairstyle is lovely etc'

it is so helpful being able to discuss this with so many. thank you all.
well, once her partner finds out he has been tricked, without a doubt, he will sell dd's house immediately (his first wife tricked him and he exploded
I told dd this last week but she said "he'll be okay!)
yes, I couldn't bear to celebrate with her, she couldn't wait a couple of weeks more.

I certainly wont initiate contact, though when she is told by my v dsis I cancelled my birthday, I believe she will try to contact me, full of anger no doubt, but i won't respond.
yes, she knows how seriously ill my older dsis is, I have been struggling to get her full health care funding for the last year (have been successful)
this dsis has no children to turn to for support.

my younger dsis has just been told the truth about dd, and is overwhelmed with despair for me, we have always been very close.

my ds is preparing to leave, he also has had enough.

"trauma bonding" just about sums it up.
how he got his hooks into her after all these years is beyond me.
just as she was becoming a kind thoughtful dd.
now it's back to two bullies joining together again.

now it's back to two bullies joining together again.

Sadly I think this is the truth.

Your DD is and has put other family in danger because of him.

You can only save yourself and cut contact.

I agree with others about changing your will as well.

My post was somewhat abrupt, I apologise. This is a dreadful situation of course.

dd contacted mg gd (25) via facebook re a surprise birthday on the actual day about meeting up together.

wtf does she think, after all it was her x who threatened gd to take her outside of her place of work and give her a good hiding, simply because gd told him to "leave nan alone"
dd is totally insane, no one wants to know/hear/see x, but she thinks family will want to see her.
X is a cancer, and must be cut out of our lives.

Because she thinks he's the cat's meow, and is so besotted with him, she is unable to step back and see logically how other people see him. She will get the message when you all unite against contact/hearing about/discussing him. I doubt this will bring her to her senses, and she will probably blame you all for this, twisting it to make out he's the good guy and you're all bad guys. Let her.. She has re-wriitten her history with him, minimised the bullying by him because it suits her, so will lash out at others who refuse to do the same. But insane or not, she's made her choice so will have to deal with the consequences. Your priority is protecting yourself, other members of the family, from any more pain. That's all you can do, and you will find the strength to do it.

The more you say the more it sounds as though your daughter is of the same mindset as her ex husband - selfish, manipulative and self-obsessed. She clearly enjoys the drama.

Shame those close to her such as her own children, her mother and brother are hurt by her behaviour. Oh and her partner who she's about to dump in the shit. Is nobody (eg your son who lives with him) going to warn the poor bloke about what she's about to do or is everybody prepared to collude with your daughter in order for her to leave without facing up to what she's done?

If I were you I would have nothing more to do with her. She will just keep hurting you. She will frustrate and infuriate you. Soon enough she will want you to support her emotionally / financially and you have already been doing that for the past 25 years. Enough is enough.

thank you magicalmrsmistoffelees,

my ds, (dd's db,) has made the decision to leave already.
last tueday, dd told me re her decision on x,
I asked what about your partner?
dd replied we are just friends! yet he has owned the house dd,gs and ds live in, as he supported her when she was in a financial difficult position.
so he brought it off her, though dd still paid the mortgage.
so, when her "friend" house owner is aware dd is back with the x after so many years, I am positive friend will simply put a sale sign up, though dd in her naivete/stupidity replied "he would never do that" ha!

Cary2012,
yes, dd is totally under his control, even though she "built a new life" years ago away from him.
But he has just reeled her back in, she is due to sell her company any day.
The x lives in a small rented bungalow, drives an old van, which without a shadow of a doubt, dd will provide for financially yet again.

She was always viewed as the "cash cow" not only by him, but his parents .
Holidays, cars/,scooter/guitar lessons for his nephew.
Too many things to write.

well, my ds's first instinct was to contact her partner and warn him.
I have his email address so can inform him.
Her partner(x?) lives in his own property.
until I am positive dd will stay with the x, I hesitate to act, my ds likewise.

Once dd is informed I have cancelled my big birthday party, very kindly organised by dsis, I am positive she will be apoplectic with rage.
so, that will be that.

I don't think either you or DS should be contacting her partner to warn him. That is not taking a step back from the situation! That is rolling up your sleeves and launching yourself into your DDs chaotic life. Dd is the one who wants to make this mess. Don't involve yourself.

Totally agree with FB, don't contact her partner, just don't. Start as you mean to go on, walk away.

yeah, you are right.

no involvement.
step away.
no response.
no initiating contact.

once the dust has settled in my exploded head/heart I can move forward.

such a shame as our relationship was the best it ever has been since she was freed, but now back to square one.

I have my lovely dh, dsis,d gd's,dear friends.

warm peaceful home.
am in good health.
mentally strong (still)
I appreciate that.

It's a horrible bloody shame Punch, but you are right to focus on the positives right now. Take care x

Glad you feel there is a way forward Punch that looks after you.

Ultimately we all have to sort ourselves out, and in your dd's case that now applies to her in spades.

In making my own non contact decision (not immediate family) I was really helped by several posts on MN. One talked about knowing your own worth. That was my light bulb moment. I realised that I could choose whether to have certain people in my life. I chose not to.

I have never regretted my decision. If your decision is fair, reasonable and you are being true to yourself it is something you can live with. In the case of a child it is in a different league. However, I think the same principles apply. I think the effects of nc for you will be easier to live with than having your dd and her monster of an ex ruining everything.

I really hope you find some peace.

another sleepless restless night.

from the beginning of dd'd marriage so many years ago, one by one the x isolated dd from each family member, and every friend until she had no support left.

at one point I didn't even know where they were living.
at intervals she would contact me, crying, desperate for help.(dd agreed last week that she appeased him to prevent more abuse)

I offered her a safe place with us, where he couldn't destroy her again.
but with death/suicide threats she went back.
and on and on it went.

eventually after bankruptcy they "built a new life abroad"
which culminated in him throwing dd out of the house by the throat, and moving girlfriend in.

at that point dd sought my help/support, and over they years our relationship grew again.
particularly after he was eventually deported there was a semblance of normality.

we were happy, he new partner brought out the best in her, kind/caring and loving.
all was well.
except for one monumental event when x managed to return abroad, making threats to burn her house down with us in it)
that was when dd grabbed the children and came to the uk .

dd's youngest dc, was conditioned from birth to appease the x, and I truly believe it is through him that dd has made the decision, as her ds wants to come back to the uk.
( 4 years ago dd was in a safe house or so we thought, but x found her via her dc on facebook. he actually told x where dd was hiding)

so, there is no hope for my dd's relationship to continue, but it is such a major decision to go nc. it isn't possible to just "stay away"

I want to say, until you are psychologically free of this monster I don't want any contact.
I don't want to say, my door is always open.
I don't want to become embroiled into their manipulation and deviousness ever again.

I will never trust dd again, this has happened so many times.

from last sunday on Skype she was her usual lovly self.

by Tuesday she was name calling, full of anger, I could hear his words coming out of her mouth.

so 16 days time dd will be in the uk.
she will finally be with x.

how can one person achieve total control and dominance over the whole family for so long?.
"do what dad wants then he will leave you alone" told to me by 10 yr gc when hiding in fear in the safe house.
god help me, and them.