Daughter returning to abusive ex. Advice please!

[punchintheguts]

24 yrs ago my dd married a narcissistic abuser.dd was first attacked on honeymoon, and went downhill from there.
*he refused to work, my dd was breadwinner.
*he had numerous affairs which he threw in her face, even one with a family member. he completely isolated dd, only "allowing" her to mix with his parents.
*he tormented me for money.
*dd arrived crying, saying her said he would kill her if she left him, which was what she wanted to do, just 4 years into the marriage.

• then he told me in person he would kill dd if she ever left him. *he deleted phone messages/emails/texts from me, isolating her further. *She lost her legal career due to his financial abuse. *I made a 4 page statement to the domestic violence unit, but when they contacted dd, she said she was "okay"(then proceeded to become angry with me for reporting it) *then they emigrated abroad, him on a work visa as dd was in the middle of a bankruptcy" *his "work" lasted just one week, my dd was reduced to being an illegal cleaner to get by to support the "family" home and children. *he eventually threw dd out by the throat (her ds tried to protect her but took a beating himself)and moved his new GF in. *dd rang me in desperation, I immediately went to support her, paid the deposit for a home for her and the children.(needless to say he paid not one penny in support/maintenance) *eventually dd managed to establish a successful business and support herself and the children. *we secured her house with locks and chains on doors as he was still threatening her for money and turning up with new gf.. *eventually it all became to much for dd, and she took the children, left her house and came back to the uk, and "hid" in a rented house where she thought she would be safe. *he would constantly ring me threatening to kill dd, but my GD heard him, contacted him on facebook to "leave nan alone ".he laughed at her, told her in writing he would come to her place of work and give her a good hiding, and to mind her own business. *he found her in the rented house, attacked her sibling who was trying to support her. *eventually she returned back abroad , and life carried on. he followed her, but was eventually deported back to the uk, and there was peace for dd. *he financially abused a widow he found on a dating site, she found my number on his phone and rang me in a terrified state. *he then managed to convince his ex gf to marry him and went back to the country, and the abuse began for my dd. *my dd/me and the children lived in fear of his next move, but dd did her best, supported the family home and children. *eventually dd met a lovely divorced man, who adores her. he is the totally opposite of her monstrous abusive ex. *I had a police marker on my home, I was terrified he would turn up and cause turmoil. *through the middle of this I suffered a stroke, the constant worry and fear of what would happen next. *he has a son by his first marriage who is virtually nc with him. his father died recently, his dm is elderly, basically he is alone now. *his dsis in nc, she suffered for years at his hands. *he has a gf of 3 years. why am I explaining what He is doing?

I was so happy last night .She told me she was returning to the uk after all the years away

I am in my mid 70's now, and miss her and the grandchildren so much.
Then she dropped the bombshell.
SHE IS COMING BACK TO THE UK, TO BE WITH THE EX HUSBAND TO LIVE TOGETHER AS A FAMILY.
I felt my stomach in the old familiar churning.
I told her she is going back in the lions den.
A leopard doesn't change it's spots.
Why, after the years of misery, fear, and turmoil?
She "explained" that even though her partner, who would "do anything for her", the adult children won't have the same relationship with him as they would with their real(abusive dangerous) father.
I tried to remind her about the cunning/manipulative devious violent verbal and physical events over the last two decades, but her reply was
"He Has Changed Mum".
I said even though he tried to destroy our relationship he never managed to completely break it, but be sure I don't ever want any contact with him again.
She said it will be lovely to have Christmas's together as a family.
I replied "count me out" I can't go through the disastrous events again.
She replied, if it all starts up again she will leave straightaway.

Am I wrong?
Forgive and forget?
I can't do that.
advice please.

Really feel for you OP, your pain and confusion is palpable. You, as a mum, want to stop the pain that you know awaits your DD on the self-destructive path she has chosen, but you can't. You need to come to terms with this, which is so difficult. You say you want to tell her that you will only have contact with her when she is completely free, emotionally, physically from him. So consider writing to her perhaps, saying just that. You have reached breaking point, and cannot rescue her any more. That is a fact, and you do not need to justify, explain, or apologise for this to anyone.

He has managed to control over the family
for so long through Trauma Bonding. These bonds are incredibly hard to break. If you watch this it will explain it far better than I can....

m.youtube.com/watch?v=mlKmfnMONog

thank you, yes I watched it.

Indeed, it is Trauma Bonding big time.

dd has everything she could want for a peaceful life in Canada, yet he has reeled her back in again.
I fear, saying I will only have contact with her when she is free.

This is exactly what X wanted in the past , and eventually achieved, leaving dd with no one to turn to.

dd has been contacting friends/family re arranging a celebration, (this is the good side of her)but is oblivious to the hurt and pain she/us have experienced for decades.
( I cancelled any celebrations, there is nothing to celebrate due to dd's decision.
I am not cutting my nose to spite my face, I feel a massive sense of betrayal and , well, I don't know what)
yet dropping the bombshell now, just days away from my party, is beyond belief.
even hearing X's name sends chills up my back.
Not only dd lived in fear of him, so did we.
Having a police marker didn't reassure me one bit.
He lives life like a game of chess, it was always worth considering his next move.
But I am not afraid of him anymore, just fear for my dd's future.

Even if you stay in contact she will either deny that she is being abused, or she will run to you then back to him eventually.

By going nc you are not denying her anything. She has said he's changed. Of course he hasn't. But if this is her fantasy she will live it out.

The nc is for you. It's to avoid having him in your head and therefore your life. She drops this bombshell then talks about your big birthday. Her thinking is so disordered, you cannot change that.

Nc will not be cruel in your case. It will literally be self-preservation. There's one thing to imagine a scenario, there's another to witness it/hear about it/be part of it.

Ultimately she will always be able to contact you or another family member. You are not going to disappear into thin air. You can always reassess your decision at a later date, but now it's about you, not her.

yesterday, something came into my head to call a close friend.
She was in Scotland for a few days.
She has knowledge through the years about the hell that the X put me/us through.
I told her re my dd's decision.
She was shocked/mortified/disbelief.

Then she said my dd had contacted her to "book a venue/catering/cake" for my birthday !
For friend to pay and dd would reimburse when she came to the uk.

luckily had my friend not been in Scotland she would have booked the venue and no doubt lost her money.
(this is the other side to dd, thoughtful and caring)
but it's the other darker side that has brought me to my decision.

"avoid having him in my head and therefore my life"

this is how it has always been, having long exhausting conversations.

what he did/has done/may do/wont do, for days, weeks, months and many many years.

spending my life with either dd or dsis talking about what he did , and how he did , and the anxiety of what he will do next.
it affected us , spending time, day/evening/nights with him the only topic of discussion.
So yesterday, I decided I would make MY decisions, not simply react to others, mainly dd and her X.
I emailed dd, told her I have cancelled by birthday celebrations..

my dsis also emailed dd to say her party had been cancelled.
dd replied vaguely, simply saying "i know mum doesn't want to see me"
I said to dsis to reply asking why "mum doesn't want to see her"
so dsis asked the one and only question.
"i thought you and mum were so close what has happened?"

no reply.

it's so odd, unfathomable that dd has only told me and ds that she is coming back to X.
so, I feel conflicted today.

I am relieved that I took my decision to not become caught in the vortex of misery yet again.

yet sad that after building our relationship up from nothing, dd and I will be estranged again, so, X has got my dd 100% in his clutches.

also, some years ago I flew to the other side of the world for my birthday to spend with dd and gc.
the 1st time we had spent it together, ever.
on the very morning the X, (who hadn't been deported yet) "insisted the gc went to him on that very day, so another birthday ruined.
dd just let it happen,

If you say to her - "as long as ex is in your life, I can't be, as I need to protect myself." Then you are not going NC, but you are stating where your boundaries are and giving her the choice. She chooses him, then you can't be around for her.

If she accuses you of being unsupportive, say - Yes, you're right. I can't support you in this decision. If she accuses you of being selfish for not wanting her to be happy - say Yes, you're right I do need to put my self first now.

As for your birthday stuff, could you make a plan to do something on your birthday, perhaps with your DH or with some friends, book tickets to zoo, theatre, Eurostar, whatever. Then just say to dd you've got your own arrangements in place and won't be having a party. She can go as apoplectic as she likes - it's not up to her what you choose to do on your own birthday.

Any ranting, just put the phone down. This woman is in her 50s, she's not a poor little girl you're being cruel to. She is bringing abuse back into her own life, which is very sad. You can't do anything about that. But you can stop her bringing it to your door.

Cross posted with you OP.

yes,
today I must reply to dd's email " it is so sad you don't want to see me on your birthday,life is so short"(trying to make me feel guilty ?)

"as long as X is in your life I can't be too , at my age I can't go through it all again""

dd has already called me "selfish" for not supporting her decision, I will agree next time.
I have already planned a day out with dh on my birthday.

dd said it would have been nice to spend my birthday with her and gs, but if you don't want to be with us, that is your choice.
as though her explosive bombshell played no part in it.

it just seems so final , it's like I am making her choose between me and X.

but my perspective is I am protecting myself by doing that and showing dd that she needs to protect herself in the same way.

X was ALWAYS her choice. The only reason they finally broke up is cos he literally moved another woman into her bed!

Don't kid yourself this is for her kids, to be a family. This is for herself. To prove to herself that she "won" and tamed the monster and it wasn't a waste of all those years after all. She'll be thinking it's destiny.

And she is hugely hugely manipulative. And really not that empathetic. And I'm not sure she's as kind as you think. I'm sure she's good at these big gestures like buying people things or similar, but they don't seem to be free.

Elspeth, finally you have hit the nail on it's head!

That was exactly the reason they "broke up"
( there was in fact at least 5/6 women but that's another matter)

Yes, flashback, right from the beginning I remember dd saying, after a very brutal argument in front of me......it is a battle for dominance mum , see who wins.....
now I am seeing the wood for the trees, I agree, dd has manipulated and used whoever she comes into contact with no exception , no taking prisoners.
(dd's present partner has provided exclusive holidays/clothes/jewellery/every kind of emotionally support and love. yet has dd just used him too)
I was even bullied (though I thought it was supporting dd) to pay for their divorce as well as the new house/furnishings etc.

"Yes dd, you are right that is my choice and that is what I have chosen, so let it drop now."

The drama is starting already... Try not to get drawn into an argument about your birthday. Stick to what you know is in your best interests. Your dd is not interested in your suffering, your birthday or your health, because she is only interested in herself and her obsession with this man. She is interested in getting you to behave and feel in a way that suits her.

Ignore all attempts to 'guilt' you into doing what she wants, or responding how she wants. You are your own person and have every right to protect yourself from abusive and manipulative people, even your own dd.

I wouldn't say too much at all, OP, simply refuse to engage, or even acknowledge him. Broken record technique: 'I'm not talking about him DD, and that will never change' and repeat. She will be, probably already is, terribly frustrated with you for not falling in line. This is new territory to her, so expect a lot of nasty, hurtful comments. Like a toddler having a tantrum, her behaviour will escalate. Not your problem, because you have stepped away.Deflect the comments, don't respond. You've made your decision, you had no choice. Your have nothing to feel guilty about, but she will try everything to get you onside. Stay strong and resolute you owe it to your other family, and most of all yourself.

OP, like you, I'm in my seventies. I am utterly appalled at what's gone on with your daughter and her ex/reinstated/whatever 'partner'. All I can reiterate, as others have suggested, is that now it's time to preserve YOURSELF - you've done, endured enough. Your daughter is a well educated, very intelligent and (once) very successful woman. And she's now a grown, middle aged woman. She's acting in a ridiculous, stupid way - despite being intelligent.

You've done enough. Please PLEASE don't put yourself through any more. Disengage - have nothing to do with that vile man, of course, and - sorry to suggest this - put some distance between yourself and your daughter for now. It does sound as though she's trying to drag you and other family into the ridiculous and dangerous maelstrom of her 'relationship' with this man. She's living in cloud-cuckoo land and everyone except herself can see that. But you won't change her mind. Stand back, hard as it is, and let her get on with it. Preserve your own health and sanity. You've done enough.

Yep Oldgrandma it's her choice and you can keep repeating: "It is your choice it would not be mine. You know I am ready to help it you want out. But right now I can't keep listening to this any longer."
Get help for yourself. And self care: Yoga, mindfulness, counselling and hobbies that float your boat!

Some thing to think about.

Men like this arnt that silly but are cowards.
They really really really dont want to go to jail. So he was never going to burn a house down, or break anyones legs or kill anyone because he wouldnt be able to get away with that. Just enough violence to get victims to believe he was capable.

If that starts again, just say fine, i'll tell the police and hospital to beckn standby.

Your daugher is also behavig like a narc saying you are selfish.....

Anyway best go nc and say
'You are the selfish one. You are leaving your stable partner for a monster. You are destroying the family. Again. You are the author of all this. Not me'

Oh as Said before, change yours wills. You dont want the monster having a penny off you.

my ds has just emailed me.
saying dd's decision is made.
dd has just emailed me, saying please mum email me.
if I reply, this is your choice, but not mine" what will that solve?
stalemate.
I'm not ready to help her out again, she said angrily she is sure it will all work out.
if I choose nc, I won't know what is happening, yet alone be ready to pick up the pieces.
why reply to dd's email?
what is there to say?
everything has been said.

That's all she said? "Please Mum email me"?

That boils my piss. It puts the entire onus on you. If you don't answer you're the cow who's ignoring her.

Personally I would send a message back through your DS saying Mum doesn't see the point in discussing it further. I know it's a bit shabby to make him the go between but if it's only one time and shuts down the drama then maybe it's excusable.

In the nicest way, you have to give yourself a kick up the arse about"not knowing what's happening". The only way you would know is the exact same way you knew last time - via high octane drama.

Ignorance may well be bliss. At any rate, it's worth a try. What is that saying? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different outcome?

Knowing what is happening in their relationship= pain. Simple as that.

I'm afraid that you need to face up to the fact that like gravitates to like.

She isn't a victim, they suit each other.

What Elspeth said!

What attsca said!

I was just thinking as I cooked dinner, with all the advice/support and suggestions, from so many people maybe you are thinking, why the hell doesn't she make up her mind!
yes, "i am the coe who is ignoring her"
and why?
because it's simply the same shit on a different day/week/year/decade.
and yes I am becoming angry now, as usual this is all we can think/talk about since last week.
a case of here we go again.
I don't think I should get ds to pass on a message as he is still living there, but it could have been possible
ds emailed to reiterate he told/warned her this would compromise our relationship, and yep, it has.
silence from me now, I won't allow dd to blame me for the relationship breakdown

If you are planning on going NC.

Start it now.

Bin her email. Block her. No reply. Tell everyone else who mentions her you don't want to hear it, you are not getting involved and you are NC.

It will be hard.

You are already churned up, anxious and stresses. And she is not even back yet.

Put yourself first.

Now.

just read this thread, but it reminds me of when my dd's partner got violent when dgd was only two months old. I was ready to report them all to social services. Fortunately, my dd made the right decision off her own bat, but I don't feel the same need to protect her as I did when she was a child. So I haven't lived through what you have, OP, but I'm afraid a woman in her fifties has to take responsibily for her own decisions and you have to protect yourself and the rest of your family.

within the 20+ years of turmoil and anxiety, I received a call from one of my dd's staff (before Canada).
I was told my dd was like a skeleton was like the living dead.(X always refused to work, it was beneath him, or he was above it)
we rushed to the office, I was dismayed and heartbroken to see her so broken.

yet even then, 13/4 years ago, she "wanted to keep the family together"
I made a many page statement to the domestic violence unit, but that was to no avail, dd denied everything when they contacted her.

Today is the first day of true NC.

I can't live through all this again, well the circumstances may be different but underneath it X is still the same person for sure.
even the last 6 years the abuse he has inflicted on other women hasn't changed.

I still have severe stomach pains, my eyes hurt, but I know it is reliving the stress and anxieties and turmoil of the last 2 decades.

I have support, but today I intend to say "i don't want to discuss dd anymore"

it is so hard, but the reality is that having contact will always mean there is a massive elephant in the room.

ds emailed last night, saying dd is "fine" and she knows I don't want to see her when she comes in a week or so.

it's not that I want to hurt her, it is because I have been ground down by all this for far too long, that I can't take it anymore.

I can't even tell her "hope it works out for you".
dd was unpleasant to my dsis too.
last night when she finally admitted her decision, dsis asked her if she was sure.
basically dd told her, to butt out and get on with her own life!
so, day 1.
keep busy.
the sun is shining.

my older dsis is in a nursing home, a 5/6 round trip away, we are going there sunday to take items she has asked for.
a very emotionally time seeing her so poorly, but she is cheerful and pleased to see us.
our 2 gd's have been amazing and supported, yet shocked/angry and disappointed after all the support had over the years.
so I will get through this, and eventually this explosion in our lives will fade away.

my heart breaks for this loss, but onwards and upwards.
thank you all for your support.