Daughter returning to abusive ex. Advice please!

[punchintheguts]

24 yrs ago my dd married a narcissistic abuser.dd was first attacked on honeymoon, and went downhill from there.
*he refused to work, my dd was breadwinner.
*he had numerous affairs which he threw in her face, even one with a family member. he completely isolated dd, only "allowing" her to mix with his parents.
*he tormented me for money.
*dd arrived crying, saying her said he would kill her if she left him, which was what she wanted to do, just 4 years into the marriage.

• then he told me in person he would kill dd if she ever left him. *he deleted phone messages/emails/texts from me, isolating her further. *She lost her legal career due to his financial abuse. *I made a 4 page statement to the domestic violence unit, but when they contacted dd, she said she was "okay"(then proceeded to become angry with me for reporting it) *then they emigrated abroad, him on a work visa as dd was in the middle of a bankruptcy" *his "work" lasted just one week, my dd was reduced to being an illegal cleaner to get by to support the "family" home and children. *he eventually threw dd out by the throat (her ds tried to protect her but took a beating himself)and moved his new GF in. *dd rang me in desperation, I immediately went to support her, paid the deposit for a home for her and the children.(needless to say he paid not one penny in support/maintenance) *eventually dd managed to establish a successful business and support herself and the children. *we secured her house with locks and chains on doors as he was still threatening her for money and turning up with new gf.. *eventually it all became to much for dd, and she took the children, left her house and came back to the uk, and "hid" in a rented house where she thought she would be safe. *he would constantly ring me threatening to kill dd, but my GD heard him, contacted him on facebook to "leave nan alone ".he laughed at her, told her in writing he would come to her place of work and give her a good hiding, and to mind her own business. *he found her in the rented house, attacked her sibling who was trying to support her. *eventually she returned back abroad , and life carried on. he followed her, but was eventually deported back to the uk, and there was peace for dd. *he financially abused a widow he found on a dating site, she found my number on his phone and rang me in a terrified state. *he then managed to convince his ex gf to marry him and went back to the country, and the abuse began for my dd. *my dd/me and the children lived in fear of his next move, but dd did her best, supported the family home and children. *eventually dd met a lovely divorced man, who adores her. he is the totally opposite of her monstrous abusive ex. *I had a police marker on my home, I was terrified he would turn up and cause turmoil. *through the middle of this I suffered a stroke, the constant worry and fear of what would happen next. *he has a son by his first marriage who is virtually nc with him. his father died recently, his dm is elderly, basically he is alone now. *his dsis in nc, she suffered for years at his hands. *he has a gf of 3 years. why am I explaining what He is doing?

I was so happy last night .She told me she was returning to the uk after all the years away

I am in my mid 70's now, and miss her and the grandchildren so much.
Then she dropped the bombshell.
SHE IS COMING BACK TO THE UK, TO BE WITH THE EX HUSBAND TO LIVE TOGETHER AS A FAMILY.
I felt my stomach in the old familiar churning.
I told her she is going back in the lions den.
A leopard doesn't change it's spots.
Why, after the years of misery, fear, and turmoil?
She "explained" that even though her partner, who would "do anything for her", the adult children won't have the same relationship with him as they would with their real(abusive dangerous) father.
I tried to remind her about the cunning/manipulative devious violent verbal and physical events over the last two decades, but her reply was
"He Has Changed Mum".
I said even though he tried to destroy our relationship he never managed to completely break it, but be sure I don't ever want any contact with him again.
She said it will be lovely to have Christmas's together as a family.
I replied "count me out" I can't go through the disastrous events again.
She replied, if it all starts up again she will leave straightaway.

Am I wrong?
Forgive and forget?
I can't do that.
advice please.

Or you could say to her 'Do you want your lovely children to have to spend the rest of their lives worrying about you? Do you want me to spend the rest of my life worrying about you? Because that is how it's going to be if you do this. And by the way, do you have any idea what agony it is to worry about someone you love? Don't delude yourself you're doing this as a good thing for your children. Now they are going to have their adult lives ruined as well. He ruined their childhoods. And now you're going to allow him back in which will make sure they don't get a decent adult life. Because they will be so worried about their severely dysfunctional parents, they'll never feel free.

Just a thought OP, that if she actually believes what she is doing is best for dcs, then if you can persuade her that if she genuinely wants to prioritise her dcs she needs to think again and change her mind. If she says she doesn't want to talk, you could say "but I want to talk, does it matter to you what I want? You don't need to talk, but you do need to listen."

well, thank you all for your replies, they all reinforce my anxieties.

my Skype call came just now, so I don't need to discuss it again.

my (d)d told me I am selfish for not supporting her in her decision to go back with the x..

she said I should be happy for her that she will be building her relationship with the x.

he has changed, and all the horrendous events of the past are over.
they were happy together, and have learned valuable lessons.

"they" want to provide a family home here in the uk for the dc's , if/when they want to come back themselves.
in the meantime she will keep the house going there .

she also explained clearly that when she is back in the uk, and we meet up, she doesn't want to see me in the anxious state she saw me in today, or it will ruin our relationship.
I asked her straight if she had a daughter how would she feel if in a similar situation.
her reply was, simply she didn't have one, so couldn't say.

she also said how is it that both myself and her db think we know it all, and it will end in a destructive mess, going by the past.

"i have made my decision, that is what I am going to do" so basically stuff it.
my response was simply, well there is nothing to talk about now, the hell of the last 20 years must be forgotten.
she replied basically, so what?
I must just leave her to it.

Is she for real?!

You say she's intelligent - yet she seems to think your reaction should be one of compliance and acceptance that she is getting back together with a man who has abused her and others relentlessly for years.

She's not even saying, 'I know it's crazy mum and I know you'll be upset and worried but I'm going to try again. I'm so sorry that it'll cause you pain and I'm really worried about what all this is doing to the children but I need to find out if he's really changed. It's stupid after all he's done but I love him.'

(I mean even that would be ridiculous. Who cares if he has changed and is now the finest, kindest man in the whole wide world? It doesn't change the past!)

But at least it would recognise your feelings as her mother who has been there throughout and suffered too. And it'd show a hint of self-awareness.

She's a fucking idiot OP. I'm so sorry. I think the only thing you can do is refuse engagement when the inevitable phone calls start. He hasn't changed, what a load of crap.

She said she doesn't want to see you in an anxious state?? Is she for real? Step back now OP, you are a caring and considerate mum, but you need

a break from contact, it isn't doing you any good. Leave her be awhile.

Give up. Change your will. Focus on the grandchildren. Try not to upset yourself. Awful - sympathy op.

Bizarre. You need to focus away from your DD.

punch I've had not dissimilar situations, not so extreme with 2 of my sisters.
In the 1st situation my Mum was similarly accused of being "unforgiving" & "a hypocrite for attending church & claiming to be a Christian" when she didn't want to support my sister's decision to continue an abusive relationship (that she had been asked at 1 point to intercede in, talk to his family etc.). It ended not long after the continuation/reconciliation and my sister moved on.
In the 2nd situation, we were all similarly asked to support a reconciliation with a man who had 'changed', my Mum had many sleepless nights about it .. in time, again, it ended - and your daughter's reconciled "relationship" probably will.
(Incidentally that sister still pulls the "I don;'t want to see you/we won;t have a relationship if you try to tell me stuff I don't want to hear - if you give me any hassle" blackmail on my Mum sometinmes).

Ppl will take as long as they choose, will give as many chances as they choose and it's only when they truly are 'done', not you, that it'll be over and they'll move on. Once you have given your best advice, you can do absolutely nothing.

You have done so much, over and above, stress like this can really ruin your health, I feel so sorry for you. Let it go - she is an adult, her kids are adults, you have done what you can, you need to enjoy what you can in this precious life. Don't let them ruin your health & your life.
xxxx

Please do leave her to it.

She is behaving very selfishly. She doesn't seem to care how you feel.

Let her reap the consequences; no support from you, regarding her choice. This will be tough going, but will ultimately benefit you, and perhaps her too.

....and by the way, for your sake, I would recommend you keep this thread to yourself and do not show it to your daughter.

She will not pay any attention; and she may even pass it on to her abuser, which would deprive you of a source of support. Keep it for yourself.

Reading this thread through, it seems like you are reliving the whole of the past as if the awful things are all happening to you right now, all at the same time.

Obviously the shock has dug it all up again, and I wonder if, as the shock fades, you can do some work on yourself to put some of this back in the ground where it belongs? With a counsellor or by talking to friends, your partner etc?

I'm not talking about pretending it doesn't exist in order to avoid learning from the past, like your dd is doing. And I'm not talking about deliberately erasing the reality of what you've/ she has lived through... In order to avoid the cognitive dissonance that comes with betraying yourself in the way your dd is currently doing.

I mean realizing that having all these awful memories coming at you, so raw and painful is not where you should be. And taking steps to put it all safely away back in the past, when that happens you can then let go of all that pain, raw hurt that feels so immediate at the moment.

It's like you have an army of traumatic experiences all roused at once and called up out of the past to hurt you again. To come at you again. Like a graveyard has just erupted with the dead coming back to 'get you'! And you need to be there with a shovel prodding them away from you and back into history again. Dead, buried and sealed under earth, where they belong.

And you can visit graves, tend them, leave flowers and read the gravestones. But not come face to face with something from a horror movie every time you even think back into the past! Churchyards can be beautiful, calm and gentle places, where grass and trees and flowers grow, wildlife pops out occasionally unafraid, and children play on the mossy flagstones and walk ways after church.

That's what revisiting the past should feel like. When all the horror has been left where it belongs... Away from you!

I think part of that might be realizing that no matter how your daughter behaves, this is her journey to make, and that you cannot accompany her on this journey she's chosen for herself. And you'll always love her and will be there for her for everything else, but you just cannot take this same journey again. She can only choose her own path, not anybody else's, and this is one you respectfully decline to undertake.

Oh dear Your daughter is determined to do this and she's not going to see reason, so there is nothing you can do to influence her. Now, you need to take a step back for your own sanity. I'm afraid I don't know how you take that step, other than putting your own boundaries firmly in place. There are no children you have to look out for, in fact no one you have to look out for now except yourself. You have tried to look out for your dd, but she's not having any of it. In fact she's dictating to you how you should feel/behave, telling you to cover up the anxiety she has caused you. She is, it seems, passing on the abuse.

She'd better just get on with it then, but she can't expect you to be a part of it.

You'll be there, I expect, even in your eighties or nineties, to pick up the pieces when it all goes to shit. But while she's with him, your relationship with Dd will be severely compromised. It might help if you think of it as temporary. Just because she's thinking like this now, doesn't mean she always will. Once he demonstrates that he has not changed, perhaps she will think again.
In the meantime, I think you have to say that you won't discuss him with her again, you won't be seeing him and he won't be any part of your life. If he stops her coming to see you without him, so be it. She will have to choose what to do. If she insists she won't see you without him being welcome etc, you're going to have to stick to your guns. He won't be welcome under any circumstances.

She is in thrall to him I'm afraid. It's like an addiction.

Is there something nice you could do for yourself OP? A trip somewhere, a course, a visit to friends you've not seen? I think you need to change gear and let this go for a while, give yourself a break, distract yourself with stuff for yourself and just leave her to get on with it for now.

And yes, please don't share this!!! It's your source of support, which she will deny any reason for, given the circumstances.

She will most likely go to great lengths to destroy your reasoning to 'prove' to herself that you are behaving irrationally and are against her 'finding happiness' or whatever rubbish she's justifying her decision with.

If you threaten her 'reality' you will become the enemy. Especially with an abusive bastard whispering in her ear.

If I were you I'd change my will to favour my DS only. From what you say, your DD and your GC will all be manipulated by this monster.

another restless night.
the disbelief and fear over dd's decision.

she is unable to understand why I am anxious, feels I should be happy with her decision.
"nothing will change between us mum".

she can't see or won't see that our relationship which had become so caring/loving and happy and totally rebuilt since she escaped the clutches of the abuser, had been completely compromised once more.
I can even hear his voice in her words already.

dd is hard as stone, not even to consider how abused I felt through the tormented years.

today is another day, I will slowly learn to pack it all away in it's own compartment and close the lid.

you know what, I don't even want to see her face or hear her words.
my world has been ripped apart yet again.

(didn't even say that dd has a dsis, who was nc for years due to the x abusing her verbally , and witness to her dsis's abuse in front of her. once dd began to rebuild her life without abuse, her dsis contacted her, and they attempted to rebuild, but god knows what will happen when she finds out the ex is in her life again)
so basically crap all round.
He Is A Changed Man, bollocks.

Your daughter is a horrible and selfish person. She has traumatized you because of her relationship and caused so much distress to you in the past, and now has the audacity to do it again. Leave her to it and her wonderful abusive man. She will learn soon enough. I second changing your will to not provide for her, you know where that will go. What a horrible daughter she is to do this to you again at your age.

If you say you no longer want anything to do with this man you are just making her job easier for her when he manipulates her. I'd do the opposite. Always be there for her. One day she'll realise hopefully X

If you say you no longer want anything to do with this man you are just making her job easier for her when he manipulates her. I'd do the opposite. Always be there for her. One day she'll realise hopefully X

Really? "Always be there for her" even at the cost of your own mental health and happiness? I know we should support women in abusive relationships etc but this is way way too much to ask. I think the daughter has more than used up her quota of "support" and anyway looks like the OP has literally nothing more left to give.

I think for your piece of mind and health, given that you've had a stroke, you need to walk away from the situation.

Your daughter is in her 50's, and your DGC adults. You've done your bit so it's time to stand well away.

I think your daughter is virtually brainwashed by this man, but that is no excuse for the way she's treating you. You do have to step away. By taking a firm stance you are protecting yourself. I wouldn't close the door on her, just repeat firmly that you have had enough of him, and if she isn't through with him, you are. Undoubtedly, she will run to you in the future, but hopefully because you have distanced yourself, you will be able to make a clear judgement then. There's no point you pleading with her, she's got blinkers on. Rather than changing her mind, work on building a happier future for you. Easier said than done, but you are a strong woman, and you owe it to yourself.

my dh got up this morning, with dark rings round his eyes.
he said he hardly slept, the awful events of the past with dd and x kept spinning round his head.

we are talking, trying to find the way to keep this bombshell out of our daily lives.

a big birthday is looming, I don't see how I can hug her, say hello, be happy ,now she has already reverted back into her old self, with his tutorage.
I shan't go NC with her.
Yes, , I am positive once he has charmed her, he will drip his vicious manipulative poison in as before.

it has already begun.

I just don't know how to distance myself to be truthful.
perhaps wait to see if she emails me first, then respond?
but she was so angry with me on Skype, she truly can't understand why I am not happy that she is rebuilding her life.

"so because you suffered because of him, I mustn't try to make it work"
"this is what is going to happen, this is what I'm going to do!
"we can still see each other "
she has no idea of the constant pain and hurt she has caused.

She is only angry with you because you are holding up a mirror to her showing her all his past treatment towards her and all her family. You are not falling into her new narrative of how he has changed, how is a new man and how she is going to have the life with him she always wanted.

Of course we all know the only reason he is saying he has changed is so she will go back to him. Once she is back with him and after a period of time (honeymoon period) he will go back to the real him.

All you and your husband can do is protect yourselves from them.

If and when he does start the abuse again all you do is not let your DD use you again, point her the direct of the police and women's aid. And when he fleece's her again and she has no money left/access to then she will have to figure out what to do.

You can not keep rescuing her if and when it all goes wrong she will have to learn how to survive herself.

She will try over next few weeks/months guilt you back into the place in her story where she wants you to be. The listening, the rescuer a position you no longer want and possible now to old to be.

dd told me, yes told me yesterday, how selfish I am to not accept her decision.

also that if it "didn't work out she can deal with it"
"we have both changed"
"it won't be history repeating itself"

literally overnight, she has reverted back into the cruel, cold, calculating, rude and aggressive person she was when she was with him.
then she sent an email "do you like my new haircut, love you"

I I checked out Stockholm syndrome, and trauma bonding.
both gc and dd display all the characteristics.
I feel as though my peaceful home has been contaminated yet again
.it was just one of the places where dramas (police,threats etc)and abuse took place.
how do I cleanse my life again, I know that sounds dramatic, but at my age I can't/won't deal with it anymore.
my dh had a heart attack.
then skin cancer.
my dsis is dying of cancer.
I must make it all go away somehow.
(wish I could drink!)

I feel as though my peaceful home has been contaminated yet again
.it was just one of the places where dramas (police,threats etc)and abuse took place If it was me I'd be looking at selling my house and moving to a new home. I may even go as far as looking into a retirement village.

As I said she will always think you are selfish, because you not following her narrative.

Your need to ignore her for now, and look after yourself.