Daughter returning to abusive ex. Advice please!

[punchintheguts]

24 yrs ago my dd married a narcissistic abuser.dd was first attacked on honeymoon, and went downhill from there.
*he refused to work, my dd was breadwinner.
*he had numerous affairs which he threw in her face, even one with a family member. he completely isolated dd, only "allowing" her to mix with his parents.
*he tormented me for money.
*dd arrived crying, saying her said he would kill her if she left him, which was what she wanted to do, just 4 years into the marriage.

• then he told me in person he would kill dd if she ever left him. *he deleted phone messages/emails/texts from me, isolating her further. *She lost her legal career due to his financial abuse. *I made a 4 page statement to the domestic violence unit, but when they contacted dd, she said she was "okay"(then proceeded to become angry with me for reporting it) *then they emigrated abroad, him on a work visa as dd was in the middle of a bankruptcy" *his "work" lasted just one week, my dd was reduced to being an illegal cleaner to get by to support the "family" home and children. *he eventually threw dd out by the throat (her ds tried to protect her but took a beating himself)and moved his new GF in. *dd rang me in desperation, I immediately went to support her, paid the deposit for a home for her and the children.(needless to say he paid not one penny in support/maintenance) *eventually dd managed to establish a successful business and support herself and the children. *we secured her house with locks and chains on doors as he was still threatening her for money and turning up with new gf.. *eventually it all became to much for dd, and she took the children, left her house and came back to the uk, and "hid" in a rented house where she thought she would be safe. *he would constantly ring me threatening to kill dd, but my GD heard him, contacted him on facebook to "leave nan alone ".he laughed at her, told her in writing he would come to her place of work and give her a good hiding, and to mind her own business. *he found her in the rented house, attacked her sibling who was trying to support her. *eventually she returned back abroad , and life carried on. he followed her, but was eventually deported back to the uk, and there was peace for dd. *he financially abused a widow he found on a dating site, she found my number on his phone and rang me in a terrified state. *he then managed to convince his ex gf to marry him and went back to the country, and the abuse began for my dd. *my dd/me and the children lived in fear of his next move, but dd did her best, supported the family home and children. *eventually dd met a lovely divorced man, who adores her. he is the totally opposite of her monstrous abusive ex. *I had a police marker on my home, I was terrified he would turn up and cause turmoil. *through the middle of this I suffered a stroke, the constant worry and fear of what would happen next. *he has a son by his first marriage who is virtually nc with him. his father died recently, his dm is elderly, basically he is alone now. *his dsis in nc, she suffered for years at his hands. *he has a gf of 3 years. why am I explaining what He is doing?

I was so happy last night .She told me she was returning to the uk after all the years away

I am in my mid 70's now, and miss her and the grandchildren so much.
Then she dropped the bombshell.
SHE IS COMING BACK TO THE UK, TO BE WITH THE EX HUSBAND TO LIVE TOGETHER AS A FAMILY.
I felt my stomach in the old familiar churning.
I told her she is going back in the lions den.
A leopard doesn't change it's spots.
Why, after the years of misery, fear, and turmoil?
She "explained" that even though her partner, who would "do anything for her", the adult children won't have the same relationship with him as they would with their real(abusive dangerous) father.
I tried to remind her about the cunning/manipulative devious violent verbal and physical events over the last two decades, but her reply was
"He Has Changed Mum".
I said even though he tried to destroy our relationship he never managed to completely break it, but be sure I don't ever want any contact with him again.
She said it will be lovely to have Christmas's together as a family.
I replied "count me out" I can't go through the disastrous events again.
She replied, if it all starts up again she will leave straightaway.

Am I wrong?
Forgive and forget?
I can't do that.
advice please.

Good point, Popple

yes stripyhoglets, I did post about this 4 years ago.
despite many sleepless nights then, nothing was resolved.
dd began a relationship with a divorced man, no ties, solvent, adored her.
he said he would live/move anywhere dd wanted.

but even then she didn't make her choice as "he wasn't the blood father of her two adult dc's"
since she dropped the stomach churning bombshell last Tuesday, I haven't heard from her.

her db, who lives with her, called me yesterday.
dd had told him of her intention to return to the ex, (even to the point she will marry him)
obviously he is horrified (the ex assaulted him, when he was trying to protect dd in the "safe house")
ds told me how he responded to his shattering news, almost word for word as I had told dd.
of course he agrees she is trying to play "happy families" even after the decades of horrendous abuse.
I warned ds to financially protect himself, as once dd and x reunite they will sell their grandmother (haha, that's me)

I am protected financially thank god, although in the past x has attempted to bully and frighten me into handing over dd's "inheritance".

my reply was on each occasion, i'm not dead yet!

now x is alone, his ds from the 1st marriage is nc, he is working on dd and her sons to maintain control.

(someone who knew x 1st wife, told me she ended up with a broken arm and bruised from head to foot. she was lucky she escaped and had a happy life)

so, here I am.
sunday morning.
it all spinning round my head.
must put on a happy smiley face as friends are visiting today.
it has been one hell of a roller coaster, it is time I jumped off I think.

now it has all resurfaced, with dd believing that the way for her to return to the uk, is to reunite with the monster of an ex, so she can live here, while still keeping the "family " home abroad.

just received an email from ds.
I directed him to this post yesterday.

even though he knows/experienced the abuse for years, he is still shell shocked by actually reading the list of continuous manipulation, financial/physical and emotional fear/abuse.
he agrees with all the replies, as I do, and said there is no point in discussing, rehashing it any more with dd, as she is hell bent to do as she has chosen.

he said that even though it is all true, obviously it is only the tip of the iceberg, dd is still planning to reunite with this monster.
He Is A Cancer In Our Lives.

I also received a one line email from dd, asking if I am talking to her anymore?
at this point I wondered if the time is now that I should also redirect her to this post?
Tuesday, once she told me her "news" I managed to tell her briefly how I felt, but she closed me down by saying she didn't want to talk about it anymore.
Through their lives my gc had been conditioned by him.

you know what due to him, I never spent 1 birthday, 1 Christmas, 1 easter, 1bank holiday, 1 of anything with dd or gc, for all their life.
it was only his family who they spent time with.
(dd went along with it)
I have got to cut loose now.

also received a one line email from dd, asking if I am talking to her anymore?

Perhaps it time to tell her exactly how you feel, no cushioning making it easier for her.

Tell her you love her and you DGC, but you can not and will not allow this monster back in to your life.

And although she is now saying she can't remember all the things that he has done to her, your DGC's, her brother and you, YOU do.

So if this means that she is CHOOSING to go back to this monster YOU are CHOOSING not to and if this means that you are no longer in contact then that is how it has to be.

Reiterate that you love her but you are choosing not to have this drama in your life and if that is her choice and only her choice.

I never spent 1 birthday, 1 Christmas, 1 easter, 1bank holiday, 1 of anything with dd or gc, for all their life.

I dont understand. Your DD and GC have not been with the ex for years and years - why were you unable to spend time with them?

Through their lives my gc had been conditioned by him

I dont understand. They have lived in another country away from him with nurturing and supportive family for many years.

Maybe the situation will not be as extreme as you imagine. Maybe your GC have developed a robust emotional foundation and will see him for what he is? Are they really (in their late 20's) choosing to move back to the UK and live in the same house with parents that they never lived with before? Surely they have independent lives now?

clutterbugsmum.
my initial response to the news, was exactly that, I cannot/will not have this monster back in my life.
dd's reply, "he has changed"

yes, it is imprinted in our mind the awful events of the past
(one night, I sat in an armchair by the front door, with a load of saucepans for defence for my dd and gc, until the police rang to say he was safely arrested and in a cell)afraid that he would come crashing through the door. just constant upheaval and anxiety.
and dd is prepared to live with x again, after safely rebuilding her life?

I just want to say what a hideous situation for you. It's gut wrenching. Would you consider getting some support for yourself ? No matter if you are or aren't in contact this will eat you up inside and is in a ways is both a bereavement betrayal. Be kind to yourself. You sound like an amazing woman.

I would also let her know that you love her and always will but you want nothing to do with this monster
But I would also let your dgcs know that you are there for them too.

poppledopple, this is how his sick mind works.
i booked a flight to my dd's house (the one I paid for) for my birthday, he hadn't been deported at that time, and was living in the "family" home with girlfriend.
on the morning of my birthday, i saw gc2 sitting in a chair with ghost ashen face and red eyes.
i was so worried, asked him what on earth was wrong.
he replied, dad said i had to go to his house instead of enjoying my birthday together.
he was so stressed, i felt so sad, and told him i didn't mind if he went.
he replied but this is the first birthday i have had with you nan, i want to stay with you.
needless to say monster controlled and both gc left on my birthday even though they didn't want to go.

i also took the trip for Christmas, which should have been an enjoyable occasion, the same thing happened.

x told them christmas eve they had to go to his house, which they did.

the next year dd came to the uk, allegedly to spend Christmas with us, but the same thing happened, they were summoned to go to his house for Christmas day, which they did.

so even though the parents have been apart for many years, the x still controls thought mind and deed, the learned behaviour from the childhood conditioning.
all 3 of them are still under his control, at least the son from x first marriage is free.
so no, they do not have independent lives at all.
one gc is working, the elder one (who has suffered depression and other related issues) in starting university in September, that is why dd wants to keep the house there on, for her 2 dc to live in for as long as they want.
it's almost like a cult control.

There's only one thing for you to remember here punch, your DD wants this and has signed up for it, you haven't. Protect yourself.

I remember your previous posts as they struck a chord with me, I have a very difficult adult child myself. I let go and so must you.

sodabread,
yes it is a total betrayal of everything we have endured for so many years.

today, i am feeling angry at this situation, not something i often feel, but the anger/hurt/betrayal is impossible to imagine.
dd's actions now are beyond total belief.

Cross posted punch, so sorry about the grandchildren, that's really tough.

poppledopple.
no, the x has only been back in the uk for about 6 years, so prior to that i never spent any special day with them, including dd.

but when he returned to the uk, he still managed to control/ruin any event.
particularly when dd visited the uk with dc, and stayed with me, he still made his demands which they went along with.
truly Stockholm syndrome x 3.

clutterbugsmum,
yes,it is time to tell her exactly how i feel.

i began to on Tuesday when she dropped the explosion into my life.

after clearly stating i want nothing, ever to do with him, after all the damage he caused to us all, she closed the conversation down,
"i don't want to talk about it"

that is why i am wondering if one way would be to tell her about this thread, let her read it, or not, at least i will feel that i have warned/advised her about the danger of going back into the lion's den.

seeing it in print may bring her to her senses, and learn to protect herself, or not.
but my ds is of the opinion that whatever is said she will continue this path.

one i am sure/positive will lead her back to square 1, homeless/penniless. but this time she is much older, and not so easy to pick up the pieces of her life.
dd lost everything, and i mean everything before, she is on a downward spiral again.

sometimes i doubt myself, and wonder ....am i being dramatic, and it's not as bad as i think.
but when the memories come flooding back, i know it was/is for real.

Feel terribly sorry for you OP, but I do think you have to say enough is enough, for your own safety and mental wellbeing. You don't need to cut her off, but need to distance yourself. I think perhaps she enjoys the drama of all this. Certainly her reason to go back to him is invalid-she isn't doing it to be a proper family unit, you mentioned that your DP has always been like a dad to her, so surely she knows that her current partner can be the same to her adult children? All you can do is express your feelings, tell her that you love her and state firmly that you cannot be part of this toxic situation. Tell her that you have suffered both first hand, and also second hand by the actions of this man, and for you it is over. End of. Tell her you will always have an open door for her and her children, but will never speak to, or about, him again.

If the GC are staying in the other country, working and signed up to Uni and living with their uncle and in a house that your DD cant be manipulated to sell from beneath them - then maybe you should take some comfort that they are at a safe physical and financial distance from their Dad?

I think that you might be experiencing some sort of PTSD to events in the past - which is understandable. But you need help to separate and manage what is in your head with what is in front of you right now. The GC are safe physically and financially. You need help to support yourself to cope, get perspective (to what you can control, take on board etc) and how to detach yourself emotionally from the choices your DD makes. You can still be an active part of her life with clear boundaries through "detached love". Many families have to live this way when they have members with addictions. Might be a v similar dynamic here.

If your DD chooses to fritter any money she has away then that his her choice - but if she is financially irresponsible you could re-write your will regarding the inheritance that the ex has his eyes on so that the GC are
secure.

Keep your relationship up with your GC - keep it positive about you and them - not always being anxious about their Dad.

Do you know much about co-dependancy? This book is brilliant at freeing you from the exhausting, emotional roller coaster....

www.amazon.co.uk/Codependent-No-More-Controlling-Yourself/dp/0894864025

She's asking if you are talking to her anymore. Can you say yes, I am talking to you, and always will be...but you say you 'don't want to talk about it ' and I don't see how we can talk if you are going to clam up like that when it comes to something so vitally important. I'll be here for you, I'll be here for your dcs, whatever you decide, but don't forget it is you who will be going backwards, back into a dangerous life of abuse, you'll actually be choosing this, and the consequences will be disastrous as you know. And I don't want to be dragged backwards with you.

Yes, then show her this thread if you think it will help. I don't see how it can make anything worse.

poppledopple
I have just heard from their uncle.
he is as shocked /disappointed/and fearful for the immediate future.
he is planning to return to the uk within 3/4 weeks.

so the gc will be alone there.
you are right, it must be ptsd, everything has come flooding back.

today I am slowly detaching myself emotionally, trying to deal with the logic of dd's decision.

true again, dd is completely financially irresponsible, which has been proven repeatedly, her lack of common sense is alarming for one so intelligent!
so ,my ds has detached himself, now it is my turn.
I will check out re freeing from exhausting emotional roller coaster, thank you.
what a week!

Punch all I can say is you have been just as much a victim of this vile monster and he has rendered you helpless yet again. Such people are almost incomprehensible to anyone not dragged in to their vortex. As much as you want to help and protect her this time you must come first. Regardless of any effect on her you have to find some way to cope and get the support you need now. She may notice you being different and react but I suspect she is too far gone. Don't go down with her.

trying to deal with the logic of dd's decision.

There is no logic to her decision - so stop expending negative energy trying to rationalise it. Lovely thread title on here recently "You cant communicate with batshit" - so dont. You can still have a relationship with her - keep talking to her but tell her your boundaries - you will be delighted to talk about anything and everything - except their relationship.

Your GC will be fine - they are not children - they are late twenties with jobs and exciting futures ahead (uni etc) - they are independent adults who can make their own way in the world.

You have done all you can - you got her away - she/you did a brilliant job and survived their childhood. Thats all good stuff and money in the emotional bank. They will all have developed perspective from this. If they choose to walk back into it - they have their eyes wide open.

This thread has made me so cross!

Your daughter has been through years of abuse, mind games, manipulation and fear which has ruined the lives of her and her children. She is now away from the abuse, financially independent and with a lovely partner.

But she is choosing to go back to him! I don't buy that it's so her ADULT children have a 'family home' lived in by both mummy and daddy. That's preposterous! As if the children want to see their mother being abused again! What they want is for their mother to stand up to their bully of a father and tell him to get stuffed!

The real reason she's going back to him is because she wants to. Who knows why - he hardly sounds a catch - but it's what she wants to do.

So let her. You've said your piece and can do no more. Watching her do it will drive you insane. Watching her contributing to the abuse of her own children will drive you insane. Watching her transfer her financial security and life over to him again will drive you insane. Step back, walk away.

If the knowledge of the pain, hurt and lifelong damage she's caused her own children - and also you, her loving partner and other family members - isn't enough to make her see reason then nothing will.

The only thing I could think to say to her is to ask her how she would feel about her own daughter going back to a man who has abused her in every way over decades. Would she pat her on the back and wish her well? Or would she scream, 'don't do it!!!' Sometimes taking yourself out of a situation and imagining others in the same scenario us the only way to think objectively and rationally.

Good luck - you have my sympathy.

That's the problem, there isn't any logic whatsoever in her thinking. After five happy years without ex and with DP, she is suddenly wanting to provide her children with her skewed version of a stable family home. Her children, who are in their twenties. This is not what they need. They need to be free to live their lives now, without feeling obliged to worry about and keep an eye on their mum because she's choosing to put herself in danger. It sounds as though she feels guilty about being happy, and her EX 'logic' tells her that she has been happy at the expense of her dcs because she has been separate from the man who abused you all their father. And she doesn't want to talk about it because deep down she must know she's not thinking straight, and a full conversation about it, with actual logic included, would make that quite clear. She actually sounds very unwell with this disordered thinking

yes, there is totally no logic in this at all.
the one problem is that she refuses to discuss it now.

I am waiting for her to Skype any minute, she emailed saying she has skyped 3 times every day, since Tuesday, but I haven't seen any missed calls etc.
I think she is panicking now.
but if the impending Skype is usual day to day things, the minute I try to discuss the disastrous decision she will shut down.
I will try a new tactic this time.

as soon as she calls, I will ask her what she would say if it was her dd who was planning the destructive move, as magicmrsmistoffelees suggested.
feeling a bit sick now, if she just sweeps everything under the carpet like she always has, well I will be in no better position to tell it to her straight.

I don't think there's anything you can do. I'm sorry.

However, something I would do (and this sounds harsh) is that I would change your will so that on your death, your estate goes directly to your grandchildren and not your DD. Because if you leave anything to her, the abusive man will get his hands on it.

Tell your daughter how you feel, show her or direct her to this thread, as others have suggested, change your will in favour of your other children/grandchildren and tell your daughter that you wash your hands off her.
She's selfish, cruel, addicted to drama and you want no part of it anymore. The stress, anxiety, upset is affecting your physical and emotional health and for the first time in your life, you are putting yourself and your family before her ridiculous needs.
Cruel? Maybe. Self preservation? Absolutely. From what I can see, reading between the lines, your daughter needs to be called out big time on this - 'are you still speaking to me indeed' - she's pathetic.