Daughter returning to abusive ex. Advice please!

[punchintheguts]

24 yrs ago my dd married a narcissistic abuser.dd was first attacked on honeymoon, and went downhill from there.
*he refused to work, my dd was breadwinner.
*he had numerous affairs which he threw in her face, even one with a family member. he completely isolated dd, only "allowing" her to mix with his parents.
*he tormented me for money.
*dd arrived crying, saying her said he would kill her if she left him, which was what she wanted to do, just 4 years into the marriage.

• then he told me in person he would kill dd if she ever left him. *he deleted phone messages/emails/texts from me, isolating her further. *She lost her legal career due to his financial abuse. *I made a 4 page statement to the domestic violence unit, but when they contacted dd, she said she was "okay"(then proceeded to become angry with me for reporting it) *then they emigrated abroad, him on a work visa as dd was in the middle of a bankruptcy" *his "work" lasted just one week, my dd was reduced to being an illegal cleaner to get by to support the "family" home and children. *he eventually threw dd out by the throat (her ds tried to protect her but took a beating himself)and moved his new GF in. *dd rang me in desperation, I immediately went to support her, paid the deposit for a home for her and the children.(needless to say he paid not one penny in support/maintenance) *eventually dd managed to establish a successful business and support herself and the children. *we secured her house with locks and chains on doors as he was still threatening her for money and turning up with new gf.. *eventually it all became to much for dd, and she took the children, left her house and came back to the uk, and "hid" in a rented house where she thought she would be safe. *he would constantly ring me threatening to kill dd, but my GD heard him, contacted him on facebook to "leave nan alone ".he laughed at her, told her in writing he would come to her place of work and give her a good hiding, and to mind her own business. *he found her in the rented house, attacked her sibling who was trying to support her. *eventually she returned back abroad , and life carried on. he followed her, but was eventually deported back to the uk, and there was peace for dd. *he financially abused a widow he found on a dating site, she found my number on his phone and rang me in a terrified state. *he then managed to convince his ex gf to marry him and went back to the country, and the abuse began for my dd. *my dd/me and the children lived in fear of his next move, but dd did her best, supported the family home and children. *eventually dd met a lovely divorced man, who adores her. he is the totally opposite of her monstrous abusive ex. *I had a police marker on my home, I was terrified he would turn up and cause turmoil. *through the middle of this I suffered a stroke, the constant worry and fear of what would happen next. *he has a son by his first marriage who is virtually nc with him. his father died recently, his dm is elderly, basically he is alone now. *his dsis in nc, she suffered for years at his hands. *he has a gf of 3 years. why am I explaining what He is doing?

I was so happy last night .She told me she was returning to the uk after all the years away

I am in my mid 70's now, and miss her and the grandchildren so much.
Then she dropped the bombshell.
SHE IS COMING BACK TO THE UK, TO BE WITH THE EX HUSBAND TO LIVE TOGETHER AS A FAMILY.
I felt my stomach in the old familiar churning.
I told her she is going back in the lions den.
A leopard doesn't change it's spots.
Why, after the years of misery, fear, and turmoil?
She "explained" that even though her partner, who would "do anything for her", the adult children won't have the same relationship with him as they would with their real(abusive dangerous) father.
I tried to remind her about the cunning/manipulative devious violent verbal and physical events over the last two decades, but her reply was
"He Has Changed Mum".
I said even though he tried to destroy our relationship he never managed to completely break it, but be sure I don't ever want any contact with him again.
She said it will be lovely to have Christmas's together as a family.
I replied "count me out" I can't go through the disastrous events again.
She replied, if it all starts up again she will leave straightaway.

Am I wrong?
Forgive and forget?
I can't do that.
advice please.

Thank you. I am mid 70,s now. Yes,all I want is a bit of peace.dd will have to accept what is coming to her. I have said and done all I possibly can, for many years now.

Op

Sorry for your situation but I'm certain you posted the exact same thread before, is that right? Maybe a few months ago?

I think you have to accept that your daughter enjoys the fucked up drama of being with this bastard.

She loves it so much she is prepared to inflict a dangerous man on you and the rest of the family by choice.

That is a crock of shit about keeping the family together.

She is going back to him because she wants to.

And fuck the rest of you.

Leave her to it.

Let her choke on her tears of self pity.

Doin, that's very harsh!
OP, all you can do is keep repeating that you're there for her, but will have nothing to do with him.
Do you think that telling her you can't help her if she gets herself into trouble again will give her pause for thought?
You would be perfectly justified in doing so.

I think harsh is fair enough in this situation.

To be willing to involve this dangerous, abusive arsehole in your family's life when they suffered for so long to help you get away from him once is despicable.

She is choosing this.

I agree with Doin, this is an horrendous situation and no doubt this man is a brilliant manipulator, but the op's DD know what she is getting herself into. She managed to escape his clutches a long time ago and yet she is choosing to go back and the keeping the family together thing is a lame excuse which doesn't stack up, her dc are grown up ffs.

Op you have been there for your DD for years, you have been intimidated and even made ill by this man a bit of self preservation is now in order. Good luck.

Her children are adults so keeping the family together stuff is nonsense.

He wants the money simple as and I cant fathom your daughters actions, maybe she is geniinly mentally compromised. but the whole thing sounds horrendous.

If he ever comes near you just call the police.

Oh and change your will!!

I agree that OP's daughter is making a choice.
But, it may be worth considering that the dd is now at the point where she can't see what an abusive situation is - many women don't for a long time.
Either way, I don't think it's helpful to the original point of the thread.
Fwiw, my situation was never anywhere near the one in this thread, but it took me a very long time to see the situation I was in - and it has marked me. Years on, I'm still afraid of making a man angry with me and I'd love a partner who cares for me and supports me, but I'm too scared to try. So, I'm trying to understand why OP's DD wants to make the decisions she has.
OP, you sound like an caring mother and I'm very sorry for your situation.

I can only say what a really awful situation. I'd be beside myself with worry if it were my DD.

I hope from reading this, that women in abusive relationships see the long term damage to the DCs by staying as long as they do. Not only that, but staying affects all those who love them as well. The DCs see unhealthy relationships which go on to cause FOO issues in later life.

I wish she would change her mind and see sense. All he wants is her money. I'm suprised she wasn't NC with him.

You need to stop talking in similes and metaphors; there are no leopards or spots or full circles here just a woman returning to be with a man who put her and her family through hell, and you want no part in it. Tell your GC to tell her they don't want it to happen if you can and they will but otherwise make it clear this is now her choice. She's been out and been safe and is choosing to go back, not sacrificing herself for anyone. Make sure she knows that then keep yourself safe. I'm sorry.

Her children aren't the reason she's doing this, it's the noble excuse she tells herself to make her decision palatable. Just as she doesn't feel terrible guilt about what happened to you, again this is what she tells you and herself to excuse her contribution to the drama.

She sounds very damaged and there's something about this abusive man and their abusive relationship, that in some fucked up way makes sense to her. All you can do is be very firm about your boundaries with her, you want no contact with this man and as much as you love her, you will not sacrifice your mental and physical wellbeing for her continued poor choices.

thank you for the replies.
I have read and re read them all.

it is true, dd has escaped him for a number of years now.
above all she has been safe physically and emotionally.

worked hard and long hours to support her dc's.
needless to say he didn't contribute a penny towards their upkeep.
she provided everything, education/cars/holidays etc.

she is truly totally independent in every sense of the word, not relying on anyone for financial support.

that is why it has been such a massive bodyblow that she released on me a short while ago.

is it true, she never managed to escape his clutches mentally?
perhaps she is afraid to live on her own, she did say she "wants someone to look after her"
perhaps he has swooped on her, aware of her financial situation.
I didn't respond to her Skype last night, I need time to think.

the way I see it, she is running head first back into a situation that will end in her back to square one, homeless and penniless.

his complete physical and emotional dominance will ensure that for sure

she has agreed in the past that she is passive/aggressive.

also, when I have reminded her re the abuse, listing serious issues that affected everyone, including her children, her response has been " I don't remember, my mind has blanked everything out, I don't want to talk/think about it"
it's as though in a perverse way she considers this constant abuser as her "saviour".
she said "we had lots of really good times" and "when he was happy we got on really well".
it's just so heart breaking to watch as my dd isis preparing to jump headlong off a cliff.

Could you speak to your gc, and ask them to tell their mother that they don't want or need her to provide a "family" home that includes their natural father ? It does seem however that this reason, given the children are adults, is just a veneer to allow herself to return.

As for her not recalling exactly what damage this monster has done over the years. Could you write her a long and very detailed letter to remind her? Don't pull any punches. Be absolutely explicit.

Part of me thinks you need to cut all contact with your dd for the sake of your sanity. Another part knows I could not in all conscience do that in my own case. If you lose her now he has won again.

I imagine you feel like you want to shut her in a room and talk to her until she sees sense. Her actions seem so extreme and unfathomable though I don't think this would ever happen. What about if you and the gc, and any others who have been involved over the years, could all get together with her ? Would the sheer weight of "evidence" so to speak sway her in any way. I know that sounds a bit crazy but the situation is dire.

I too was hoping your post was going to end with news of the "mans" demise - shame.

You poor woman

Please think of your own safety. This man does not sound safe to be around. Do you have other relatives you can talk to?

Stockholm syndrome

How many of us remember the trauma of childbirth, the sleepless nights, the terrible 2's

If we did then the human race would have died out eons ago. I guess its the same for your daughter. The shit has been erased and only vaugly happy memories.

wherearemymarbles,
yes, it sounds like Stockholm syndrome completely.
just 3 years ago, it was revealed that the ex had gone back to dd's house, and actually stayed there for 4 weeks.
the night she dropped her bombshell, turning my peaceful life upside down, I tried to remind her about the hell we had all endured over the years, she cut me dead "i don't want to talk about it"

my dh, her stepfather who has been amazing of her over the years, will also be devastated when I finally have to tell him.(she always said he was like a father to her)

early in dd's disastrous marriage, she had a house in the midlands.
out of the blue, she asked my dh to "look after some money" after the sale, as she was planning even then to leave her ex, due to his prolonged abuse.

my dh agreed, believing he was supporting/helping her.
what happened next?
dh got a threatening and abusive phone call from the ex, saying he will break dh's legs if he didn't bring "his" money back within 15 minutes, as it was "his"
I took the cash to dd, she opened the door just a fraction, whispered "i'm sorry mum" took it and closed the door.

there have been so many threats/abuse, too many to mention.
ex will bully anyone in his way.
each time dh picked me up off the floor, supported me, even to the point of travelling to dd's house, spending 2 months painting and decorating it while she worked.
ex's son by his first marriage has had a successful career.
dd has always said he is a good person.
BUT since he has gone virtually nc with his father, dd is now saying the son is arrogant/cocky etc.
why? she hasn't seen him for years, let alone spoken to him.
because she is influenced by her ex, he is angry because he can't rule the son anymore.
he drips poison into peoples lives, and that is what my dd is going back to?
god help us all.
this weekend my lovely gd (27) is staying, it will be a pleasure spoiling her.
but, underneath it all I will have this heavy heart, not knowing what will happen next.
also, just for good measure, dd's present partner, kindly helped her regarding her house when she got into difficulties, and transferred it in his name.(I paid the large deposit)
I told dd, even her house isn't safe. once her partner finds out she has been planning to go back to the ex, he won't be happy and she could lose the house altogether, so there will be nothing for the grandchildren anyway.
so, it is a mess from beginning to end.
i also have a dsis with cancer, who i am trying to support,
i just feel well, squashed.
i am positive the monster won't contact me at all, but knowing thatme dd is with him, if/when she visits me i will feel she is "contaminated" if that's not too strong a word.
god almighty, why can't adults sort their lives out.

You say your dd feels guilty about what she's put you through. So could you use this guilt to get her to change her mind? Can you point out to her that she is prioritising someone who has harmed her own mother and her own children? Can you remind her that you've had a stroke ffs! Can you tell her that by this action she will further damage her children and endanger her mother's health? Can you tell her she's being extremely selfish and not thinking about anyone but herself and her ex? can you point out that you have given all you have to give to this situation and that if she takes this decision she will destroy you as well as herself? Does she not care how upset you are? Use emotional blackmail ruthlessly, she is evidently susceptible.

I truly believe that dd can't see the wood for the trees anymore.

she has it in her mind, go back to ex, the years of torture and misery are in the past, and it will be magically happy ever after.

I haven't spoken to her since the bombshell, even though when I do, I am positive that she will close all discussion down, "i don't want to talk about it" which is how she responded before.
I am trying to carry on as normal in my daily life, but this burden is eating me up inside.

Please, try not to be too eaten up inside. Keep working towards detaching from her, and her poor decisions.

You can still love your daughter while being very firm, and not making her problems your problems.

I'm not saying this is easy or that you will succeed straight away, but for your own health and enjoyment of life, you will have to try and keep trying. It isn't right that he, and by extension she, should have this much power over you and your health.

'I don't want to talk about it' must cut both ways now. The days of agonising and persuading have to end. Her choices will have consequences for her relationship with YOU.

You can't act as a backstop. She has to realise that, for your sake.

thank you trackrbird.
dd has always made poor decisions despite receiving suitable advice and support, it must be the way her mind works.
once dd is with the ex, that is when the power issues will arise I have experienced it for years.
they both have long term partners, and are plotting this, it is so against my moral compass (I feel like emailing her partner to let him know what's going on, but definitely won't)

you are totally right, this next action will definitely have consequences for our relationship.
for many years, due to his control and manipulations she isolated herself from me, I rarely saw her two children, and now, here we go again.

Hi there OP. We're going to change the title of this for you in a moment.

It sounds like your DD and your GC have been away from the ex (in another country also) for many years.

Your DD has been in a stable nurturing relationship - she has done well (with your help) to raise her children and get financially independent again.

Your GC are in their late twenties, your daughter in her 50's.

It looks like they all have developed a relatively secure base emotionally and financially over the past many years away from the ex?

Are her children (in their late twenties) planning to move countries and move back to the UK to live in a house with parents that they never lived
with before? I think that your DD may be trying to recreate a situation 'happy family" that didnt exist. I think it wont last 2 weeks - so let her put her hand in the fire. If it all falls apart again there are no vulnerable children at risk now - it would not be so bad - the could (or would have to) weather it.

You need to disengage emotionally for your own health. You can still love and support your daughter but you need boundaries and you need to focus on the rest of your life. You cant control this.

Have you posted about this situation before on here as it seems familiar? I hope she can be made to see some sense but you are entitled to say you cannot deal with this again to her.