Dating a man with no kids long distance - he doesn't want the kids to be part of our life together, am I a fool?

[papermoon55]

So,

Have been dating a man for over a year and a half. Am completely in love with him, he makes me laugh, he is kind, attentive, loving, honest, committed, intelligent, emotionally stable, rational, and generally gorgeous. He is also newly in the forces (following career change) and is extremely driven career wise. We met when he was stationed near me for initial training, and is now based 4hrs drive away. We meet up every other weekend, sometimes less frequently, usually halfway (both of us driving 2 hrs) as he owns a house which is roughly in the middle.

I met him as I was coming out of a 15 year relationship with my now ex. We have two DC, 10 and 8. All amicable with the ex and children have coped with separation very well. I have only recently told the DC about this chap as I didn't feel it necessary to mention him - he wasn't likely to become a factor in their life any time soon.

When I am with new chap (do I call him DP?) we have amazing weekends together, doing all the grown-up things you can do without children, living close to London, shows, parties, balls, all very exciting and wonderful.

However, I am finding the distance difficult, finding the concept of us never living together (not for next 10 years anyway) depressing, getting to the point where I want to spend more time with him yet because he has not met the kids we can't. This weekend we finally had the conversation.

Basically he has said he doesn't see his future as a parent to my kids. He's no issue with me having kids, fully understands my commitments, and is happy that I put them first. But in his last relationship he moved in with a woman with two teenage kids, she wanted him home every weekend, he had just got into the forces and didn't want to be tied down, the weekends were focused around the kids, they never had time together, one of the kids had emotional problems, and he was basically very honest that he wanted to date the mum, not the kids.

I am basically ok with this in lots of ways. I am enjoying my independence. I wouldn't move myself/the kids even if it was on offer as my ex is here and they need the relationship with their dad. I love my child-free weekends (have never been particularly maternal) and I am very attracted to him being career-driven and focused - he's a very strong/independent character and if he turned up at my doorstep with a suitcase I'd probably run away.
However, I can't help feeling bothered by the implication that I am trying to 'trap him' in some way, and that meeting the kids would be a slippery slope to weekends of domesticity, him helping run the kids around and generally being involved in family life. That was never on the cards, I'm not offering it, they have a dad, thank you. But the voice inside me is saying that if he really loved me, the kids should be accepted as part of that package.
The other issue is that after wonderful romantic weekends with him, I often find myself feeling sad to come back home and get on with the necessary humdrum business of parenting and working full time. His life in the forces as essentially a single man is just so different to mine, and I will admit I am jealous of his freedom, his ability to focus only on himself and his career. I am a nice little bonus, reasonably fit/attractive, happy to drive 4 hours to be on his arm at posh work and social events, adoring him. But it's not real life and he knows I want more. He has just been very honest about not being able to give it.

What would you do?

Apart from the fact that he is in the forces (yuck), your set up sounds ideal to me, OP, and I don't see why you should worry about it.

The other issue is that after wonderful romantic weekends with him, I often find myself feeling sad to come back home and get on with the necessary humdrum business of parenting and working full time.

This is exactly what I love about my current set up. Best of both worlds - having a wonderful time with my partner, then devoting myself to my kids, and my job.

a man finally who wants to be involved in every aspect of my life and barely leaves my side or the kids also makes me feel fabulous and is very romantic.

And this would be my idea of hell. So, each to their own.

Sometimes I look forward to living together, but then I realise it's just my (human) nature to be constantly planning ahead. What's next? Where is this going? I actually love the way it is now, and really don't want it to change. I accept those fleeting feelings of dissatisfaction, and they quickly pass.

If you are happy with the present, just enjoy what you have. When (if) that changes, make different decisions. And those who say that this 'has no future' cannot possibly know that. It has whatever future you both agree on.

I agree with branleuse - enjoy it for what it is. It sounds like he fulfills a part of you that needs that independence / child free time, and there's nothing wrong with that. He hasn't said he's against your children, just that he doesn't want to be 'dad' - which you've acknowledged he doesn't need to, they already have a dad. Maybe treat it as something that has helped you to recover from your relationship with your ex, but as stated above, you can keep your options open (be honest with him though)

Have you spoken to him about the possibility of it not working if it's not right for you? Does that make him re-think?

OP, thank you for this -

the thought has crossed my mind, but I don't think I could ever do it. I'm not maternal, but I still love my children and need and want to be there for them

I was the wife of a commissioned RAF Officer for 30 years and I've seen this kind of guy in the Mess time and time again.

There will come a time with this guy when you'll have to make a choice because it will very much be a case of - it's me or them.

But even more than that is the fact you could give this scenario even the smallest of space in your head.

OP I have read most, but not all of this thread.

I was with a man in the forces for three years, he had been 'in' for a long time. His children were at boarding school and my youngest was 9. His focus was HIS job and HIS kids, I was way down his list of priorities. He really had no interest in MY life or kids.

The LDR (UK) was very tough, but he managed very pragmatically, I didn't. I didn't need help with parenting or finances (much to his delight) but the sheer lack of physical contact (and I don't mean just sex) killed me. We'd spoken about moving in together, but it was me having to 'give it all up' and trawl my then 11 year old DC around the UK on different postings. He had no interest in the school my DC would attend, or nurturing a relationship. He was only interested in me.

That's fine if you don't have children, but I did, and as smitten as I was, my DC came absolutely first, no question. I ended the relationship.

I was heartbroken for a very long time. Do I regret it? Absolutely not! A man who doesn't consider my child has no place in my life I'm afraid. And life with a man in the forces is very very tough.

So without hesitation, my advice would be to end the relationship.

OP, I am now 24 years old. My mom and dad split when I was 12. My mom swore she never wanted to live with anyone else again and just wanted to live with me and my sister. She was seeing someone who didn't want anything to do with us and he didn't want to live with us (and she didn't want him too either as she said she didn't want him coming in our lives as he isn't our dad). So they lived apart and we never went out with him. Only she did on her own when we were with my dad or with other family. Tbh I resented her a bit as she would go on holiday with him and not take us(me and my sister), her partner didn't want to be involved with us and I didn't really get why at the time. My mom used to say when me and my sister have moved out they may live Together - I'm now 24 and moved out. My sis is 21 and still lives with my mom. Her and her partner are still together but he still doesn't often stay over. She clings on to him and knows it will never go anywhere. Also now I have a child of my own her partner also doesn't want to know my son because he doesn't like children. So yeah her partners an idiot and it creates tension between me and my mom still! Please think of your child and yourself and get away from this man. But as many have said - when you love someon easier said than done

I know I haven't posted today, but I've still read all the replies and been torn by so many of them.

Nearly everyone says get out of the relationship, think about your children, he won't be faithful, forces relationships are practically impossible. I've heard people describe partners and husbands who have cheated, put their needs and careers before their partners, women who've wasted years with men who fundamentally don't respect or love them.

I feel completely numb now. I'm so close to signing up to Tinder in the hope that the attention of other people might give me the strength to walk away from this relationship.

We spoke for 50 minutes on the phone tonight. I heard all about his day, he listened to me talking about my work, the kids, the legal stuff with my ex. We talked about how the solicitor is going to cost so much we should probably postpone our plans for a weekend break to Portugal as I'm going to need to budget to pay for legal costs. He told me about some tough stuff he was going through and was interested and supportive about my stuff.

I don't recognise him as a serial philanderer, narcissist or selfish. At the moment, all it is is circumstances.

Feeling lost. xx

Sorry OP, I can see that you're upset but remember that you're posting because no matter how you try to convince yourself otherwise, you know this man isn't the one.

The bald fact is, IF he loved you, he would accept you and all that sails with you. He doesn't.

I don't believe that you would turn him away with a suitcase, I think (not so deep down) that you would be thrilled at having finally proved to yourself that you've 'won'. You're doing the old 'self-preservation' thing and I can completely understand that but I don't think you're kidding anybody here and you're definitely not kidding yourself.

I think, if you carry this on, you will start hating yourself because your children are NOT accepted. Not now, not ever. He isn't in love with you, you are with him and a relationship that unbalanced can never work.

If only you were the sort to enjoy it for what it is, but you're not, it's obvious, and you're settling and papering over the cracks as fast as you can to make yourself feel better. You deserve better - and so do your kids.

Rip the plaster off now - and you be the one to do it. You'll hurt for a while but you'll have your self respect and dignity.

I've just read your last post OP. You're in love with this man, you say, yet you're thinking of signing up for Tinder for other men to distract you from this one?

Not only is this man not right for you, you're in no fit state to be dating right now because any man that shows you the slightest bit of attention is going to be salve for your wounds - and that way disaster lies.

Do yourself a favour, give this man his marching orders, stop thinking of him as anything but a FW (not many) B, and spend some time finding out who you are as a person and what you want. It sounds trite but if you're not happy in your own skin, no man is going to make that happen for you.

It's not just you now, it's you and your children... make good choices that aren't going to kick them in the face at the same time as you're getting knocked back. There are nice men out there, make yourself whole enough and happy with yourself enough to recognise them - and go slow. There's nobody keeping score of how attractive/good at relationships you are.

Hello OP,

I've been separated three years and am now divorced. I've read this thread with interest.

My first relationship post separation was with a bloke who was lovely/treated me extremely well and who will make someone a brilliant life partner. But there were aspects about him and his relationship with his dc that were totally incompatible with me. He wanted ultimately to move in with me. I didn't. I wanted to keep our kids apart because the differences in parenting style were huge. In short, I didn't love him completely. Or enough to embrace everything about him incl his child. We separated after 11 months and it was painful but right. I wonder if this applies to your boyfriend? Like he just doesn't quite feel it? But because he doesn't have kids it's not easy to know.

I've now met someone who I'm utterly smitten with. Head. Over. Heels. With him he's met my kids, I'll meet his soon, and I can see myself living with him at some point. Spending time together with the kids around. It's a completely different experience. The difference is massive. It's a whole world away, this feeling.

I think it's well worth talking to him and seeing if he will at least commit to meeting your dc for occasions. I think because he doesn't have dc it's a bit more difficult to see where he might be coming from. He may well just be overreacting to his previous relationship. Which does sound extreme.

I don't really get how people are leaping to the conclusion that he has another woman

Talk to him next time you see him, OP. Maybe you can sort this???

I feel completely numb now. I'm so close to signing up to Tinder in the hope that the attention of other people might give me the strength to walk away from this relationship

How do you expect to be taken seriously when you talk nonsense?

Sorry ohdearme - I'm just laying my emotions bare to a bunch of strangers. That was how I felt.

There's been such a lot of good advice on this thread.

Can you enjoy your relationship for what it is, as a Mr Right for now, without looking into the future? Or do you only want to be with him if he's making plans with you for your long term future?

If you stop seeing him... Will you miss the closeness of having someone to talk to about your day, someone to spend free weekend with, someone to be yourself (not mum) with?

You can of course find all that with someone else, someone with whom you could have a long term future. But not while this man is on your mind. He'll be stopping you from meeting anyone new because you'll be comparing wonderful current man to new man.

I've recently been in the same situation as you. Except the man ended it, not me. And it's made me realise I don't want a long term partner involved in my and my children's lives. I want someone for me, someone to enjoy my child-free time with, someone to chat to without the humdrum of everyday life.

I think it's ok to have relationships that are good for now - so long as you actually want that - they don't have to evolve into living together and getting lives all entwined if you don't want them to.

I can't imagine having a man live with me and my children. We have our house set up for us, we have our routines, their dad is very involved and they don't need a surrogate dad.

These strangers are pretty much unanimous in cautioning you to try to look objectively at what you have with this man so that you don't carry on filling-in-the-gaps and making a fool of yourself.

I posted what I would advise my best friend to do, because I wouldn't want to see her get hurt. From what I can see of your posts, you're blithely galloping down that path with your fingers wedged in your ears.

Interesting post HandyWoman

I wonder if perhaps I would be able to imagine someone getting entwined into my life if I met the right man.

There are a few red flags for me in your description of your relationship.

There is good honesty in a relationship and bad honesty. Bad honesty is where a person is not telling you things in the interest of being open and vulnerable but their honesty is a way of "setting their stall out". It looks like they are opening themselves up to you but really what they are doing is, through subtext, fixing very rigid perimeters for the way in which the relationship will play out.

It's a subtle form of control and potentially gaslighting, because even if by all measures the relationship looks as though it is evolving and deepening (as relationships need to if they are to be long term), at any point the "honest Bob" can and will refer you back to the terms and conditions that were outlined in their initial 'honest chat' and BOOM the "progress" that you thought you were making is turned to dust.

It's confusing because, of course, everybody is entitled to their wants and desires and everybody is entitled to set boundaries within relationships. But boundaries that box the other person in are, eventually, abusive.

It is striking to me, that someone so adamant that a relationship with a Mother is not something that he wants, embarks on a second relationship with, well, a Mother. The world is awash with lovely, single childless women ripe for the picking and whilst I don't want to in anyway demean you because I don't doubt that you are gorgeous and great company etc - but why you? Why a Mum? It seems to me that he is setting up the perfect 'get out clause'. This man does not want a committed relationship AT ALL... WITH ANYONE. It's not you, it's just not his bag and to insure that he can bail out when it's run his course he's set out a contract with you that means that once you get to the point that FWB is no longer satisfying he can invoke Article 51 and say that he was always honest with you that he never wanted the more that a committed relationship with a parent inevitably entails and end it.

You can compartmentalise your life for a bit and I can totally see the thrill of that for a while, especially when you are rediscovering yourself after a long term relationship, but it just isn't a long term strategy for happiness. I wouldn't say ditch him right now... actually strike that, you're falling really hard for him, you need to end it on your terms now before the paradoxes and opposing desires to be a partner and mother start to destroy you.

Then get really clear on your own short and long term needs and wants and establish your own reasonable boundaries before starting a new relationship.

Oh and I used to work for someone who was a Captain in the Army and he once laughed for the best part of two minutes after I said something along the lines of "Surely not everyone in the forces, cheat's?". He went into great detail about how he had a fiance (whom he adored) but had various other 'back-up' women for when she was unavailable. BTW - his telling me this was, as I've described up post, him 'setting out his stall'. I never went there with him but I know for an absolute fact that I would be one of his 'back-up' women if i had and regardless of how in love he might have been able to convince me that he was with me, I would have been given the swift heave ho, should I have started to expect it to go anywhere (this is not conjecture - I saw him do this to several women... at the same time... none of them knew about the others, although his wife had a fair idea but then they had an unconventional set up, to say the least that's a WHOLE other post ).

That is a stonkingly good post BenLinus

Op I think you are making it complicated for yourself - if the time you spend with each other is good as it seems to be focus on this for now - who knows what the future will bring and personally I think as you,ve been together for some time you think your relationship needs to progress for it to feel committed. I'm in a relationship for a similar amount of time my boyfriend is ok with being involved with my kids - he has no kids - but my kids are not overly enthused at spending time with him -they will but have said they do not want a replacement dad - not that he wants this role anyway. The whole adjustment has been hard all round - x had affair kids still finding it hard - I had no intention of getting involved with anyone until kids left school -another year - but it happened. Just got to take it as it comes - the main thing is to keep talking -sounds like your chap had a really hard time with x and this has "scarred" him - he's scared of the same happening again. I think it takes a hell of a lot of character to be involved with someone else's kids especially when they don't have their own kids - give him time take the pressure away you don't seem overly ready for him to move in yet so why put yourself through this. It's not a case either of having to choose its trying to make a difficult situation work for all - maybe you need a new interest to give you something to focus on when you are not with him and put some spark into the part of your life that you feel is hum drum - tinder is not the answer :-)

I have seen exactly the same with my cousin but the other way around:
she was a single female, he divorced with 2 very young kids .
It did not work. He kept not being able to see her as he was working
f/time and had to fit with his ex-wife re looking after DCS.
They would have a mid-week date but then he would be unavailable at the weekend.
She started feeling used and a mug for hanging around waiting for him . Christmas came and he was with his family.
If he really loved me he would... Never the kids came first

Concert - the kids need to come first - I am living with the damage that is done to kids when they see their dad put the OW before them - anyone that says if he really loved me he would ... Needs to do some work on themselves - if they really loved him they would not put this expectation into the mix

I've read all your posts (several times) - benlinus !!

Have just had a phone conversation with him because, well, I couldn't let it lie.. he is getting exasperated with me as we career from one emotional outburst to another. He is happy with what we've got, is not a dreamer like me, won't promise a future he can't see, can't offer more. Feels I am setting bear traps for him, feels defensive because I am unhappy, admitted withdrawing from certain situations likely to make me feel more emotionally attached (walking around garden centre together the other weekend, which made me want a house together)

I now feel I have permanently fucked things up by being so emotionally needy. I told him I'd tried to rationalise it all and enjoy what we had but I kept wanting more. He pointed out I never explained what more is. (I don't because I don't want the rejection/lack of validation)

On the kids issue, felt less of a 'I never want to accept your kids' but much more 'I am focused on my career and that's not changing at the moment'.

I feel I am talking myself into calling it off but God how I wish I could just be content with what I have.

He said:

I am not asking for you to change anything, nor do I want you to be something you are not in case I don't like you. I accepted you for who you are and love you for it but I also am painfully aware of the situation. Xxx And:

I guess I am living in the moment. Enjoying what we have and loving you and what we share, but in the back of my mind I also know that our situations haven't moved on even if our feelings have and that causes a potential problem if we have to make choices down the line about where I live and work. I'm not ready to live together in a family situation, I knew that leaving XXX and it hasn't changed. Xxx

Now the trouble is I can't take any of it back, I suspect his view of me is emotional and irrational and increasingly irritating; he said we keep having the same conversations and for him the conclusion is always the same, he is happy with what we have and wants it to continue.

This is the clearly the downside of dating an ambitious, confident and independent alpha-male. All those aspects which were so attractive after 15 years with my polar-opposite ex!

Please don't flame me. Am a bit crushed, bewildered, lost. Xx

BenLinus makes an excellent point. If his experience with his ex was that horrific he would have gone running as soon as you told him about your set up. But instead he's let it develop and is using the kids as the perfect ruse to stop things ever getting too close to actual real life commitment. That's a bit of a dick move. Of course, what he might actually be thinking is, "I don't want to meet your kids and play Dad knowing this isn't going to work out". Which is more understandable, but still cowardly.

A lot of people are saying about surrogate fathers and "they already have a dad", etc. I don't think anyone's expecting him, or any other man in this position, to roll up his sleeves and start "parenting" in ernest. At this stage he just needs to rock up, appear interested, and not be an arsehole about potentially having to reprimand them if they stick their fingers in a socket and there are no other adults about. It's difficult but not completely impossible to get involved, spend quality time together and yet leave the messy stuff to the two capable co-parents already on the scene. It's the fact he won't even try that's the sad part about it.

You said upthread about potentially buying a place together mid-way between you. To be clear, I think that's an absolutely nuts idea and you shouldn't be tethering yourself financially to this boy. BUT I do think his response to this suggestion (if you make it clear that you're being deadly serious) would be very interesting and tell you a lot more than any of our surmising might. If he's as into you (sans children) as you think he is, he won't brush you off immediately and will discuss the merits of it without shitting himself. If he quickly discounts the idea, won't discuss it or makes shit excuses, you know for sure you're on to a loser here.

No flaming from me but.... well, he's not making you very happy now, is he? He's playing a game of push-me-pull-you, ready to pull away at any minute, just like benlinus describes. He has you in his thrall and that's really not a healthy place to be.

If you can't accept that what you have with him is likely to be all that you will ever have with him - and be happy to go along with that - then what's the point? You're just prolonging the agony for yourself and ultimately, your kids. You sound like a smart woman but one that's got caught up in an emotional maelstrom. That's just destructive.