Dating a man with no kids long distance - he doesn't want the kids to be part of our life together, am I a fool?

[papermoon55]

So,

Have been dating a man for over a year and a half. Am completely in love with him, he makes me laugh, he is kind, attentive, loving, honest, committed, intelligent, emotionally stable, rational, and generally gorgeous. He is also newly in the forces (following career change) and is extremely driven career wise. We met when he was stationed near me for initial training, and is now based 4hrs drive away. We meet up every other weekend, sometimes less frequently, usually halfway (both of us driving 2 hrs) as he owns a house which is roughly in the middle.

I met him as I was coming out of a 15 year relationship with my now ex. We have two DC, 10 and 8. All amicable with the ex and children have coped with separation very well. I have only recently told the DC about this chap as I didn't feel it necessary to mention him - he wasn't likely to become a factor in their life any time soon.

When I am with new chap (do I call him DP?) we have amazing weekends together, doing all the grown-up things you can do without children, living close to London, shows, parties, balls, all very exciting and wonderful.

However, I am finding the distance difficult, finding the concept of us never living together (not for next 10 years anyway) depressing, getting to the point where I want to spend more time with him yet because he has not met the kids we can't. This weekend we finally had the conversation.

Basically he has said he doesn't see his future as a parent to my kids. He's no issue with me having kids, fully understands my commitments, and is happy that I put them first. But in his last relationship he moved in with a woman with two teenage kids, she wanted him home every weekend, he had just got into the forces and didn't want to be tied down, the weekends were focused around the kids, they never had time together, one of the kids had emotional problems, and he was basically very honest that he wanted to date the mum, not the kids.

I am basically ok with this in lots of ways. I am enjoying my independence. I wouldn't move myself/the kids even if it was on offer as my ex is here and they need the relationship with their dad. I love my child-free weekends (have never been particularly maternal) and I am very attracted to him being career-driven and focused - he's a very strong/independent character and if he turned up at my doorstep with a suitcase I'd probably run away.
However, I can't help feeling bothered by the implication that I am trying to 'trap him' in some way, and that meeting the kids would be a slippery slope to weekends of domesticity, him helping run the kids around and generally being involved in family life. That was never on the cards, I'm not offering it, they have a dad, thank you. But the voice inside me is saying that if he really loved me, the kids should be accepted as part of that package.
The other issue is that after wonderful romantic weekends with him, I often find myself feeling sad to come back home and get on with the necessary humdrum business of parenting and working full time. His life in the forces as essentially a single man is just so different to mine, and I will admit I am jealous of his freedom, his ability to focus only on himself and his career. I am a nice little bonus, reasonably fit/attractive, happy to drive 4 hours to be on his arm at posh work and social events, adoring him. But it's not real life and he knows I want more. He has just been very honest about not being able to give it.

What would you do?

There's so many things going on here. You describe him as new chap yet you've been seeing him for 1.5yrs. You've realised something is missing and you're experiencing a longing which is for him to be more of a part of your life, all perfectly understandable.

Trouble is he's living a compartmentalised life, is perfectly happy with it & no desire to change things.

He's unfairly compared his relationship with you to his previous experiences. He even warned you early on that you would 'want more than he can give'.

You're always going to feel dissatisfied living like this as the relationship is stuck in a certain gear, never to change. Sorry to say but i can see resentment building and before long the extended unnaturally lengthy honeymoon period will be over. The 4 hr/2hr drives will be less to look forward to as you'll wish he was nearer to you, closer in heart as well as geographical distance.

Please don't consider uprooting your family to be nearer this man. I'm sure if he were posted further away for his career, he'd be sad but realistically he's going to do what works best for him. This is all about him & his needs from the sounds of it. If you're happy to accept this the relationship will continue but if not, I fear it won't last.
PS I have no idea why other posters think he has another gf on the go or are so sure he's cheating?

You don't seem to know what you want? You say if he turned up on your doorstep with a suitcase, that you'd run a mile. So, do you want to see him more, or not?

Anyway, that's by the by, because the situation is at an impasse. He lives 4 hours away and can't change that. You can't move to his town, because the children are settled where they are, and where their Dad lives.

So, the question is:

1. Can you live like this, until the children have left home? And...
2. Would you move 4 hours away, even when the kids are adults (assuming they stay in the town you're in), as that would mean not seeing your adult children and grandchildren often?

I dated a military guy, for almost a year. He told me that ALL the guys cheat on their wives, when they are on tour. They all visit high class brothels. He could not think of one colleague who hadn't done this. Altho he swore blind he would never cheat on me. Well, he got round that by breaking up with me as soon as he was posted abroad for 6 months. Oh, but he did cheat anyway, as I discovered when he sent a text to me (from the town his barracks was in, which was 3 hours from where I lived, saying "I'm ready to get picked up babes". Hmm. Busted.

He also ran a mile when I talked about meeting my kids.

Anyway, it all turned it for the best. After he dumped me, I met a lovely guy (now my DH) who met my kids 3 months in, took on a fatherly role, and gets on great with my kids (who are now adults).

Do you want to carry on as you are? Or be free to meet someone who will marry you, love your children, and be your daily Partner in life?

So what do I do? Do I just end it? That feels absurd - he makes me so happy (putting this issue aside) and we've both invested so much.

I know it's easy to jump to conclusions and generalisations and recommend decisions based on that - but I genuinely feel he is not a narcissist, selfish or any of those things. I think if circumstances were different this would be a very different story.

Part of me doesn't want to throw away what we have, when it really has evolved. It took a long time for him to say he loved me, he's been absolutely clear he'd always be straight and honest with me, didn't want to make promises he couldn't keep, wouldn't offer phoney reassurances or any of those things. I know that doesn't alter the situation, but I'm just trying to give you a sense of the man, and why he's special.

If I ended it, he would be devastated. So would I. But yes, when people have asked 'can I cope with this being the future for the next 10 years', that's a hard question, and it makes me feel uncomfortable. I can't see the future. Not just for him and I, but in fact any relationship in general, and how that would ever fit in with having kids. Say I find someone local - there will always be issues and challenges in making it work, and whose to say I wouldn't have a whole other set of problems to deal with.

My mistake was making the wrong choice of long-term partner - I chose someone stable, responsible and safe. The feelings I have for this guy are a million miles away from how I felt about my ex, and yes, I don't mind admitting that I am scared I won't find anyone else I feel so strongly about.

I wonder if he feels scared that you might dump him over his attitude towards living with you and your kids.

He seems incredibly self assured and doesn't seem to flinch at the thought of losing you through his crassness towards spending time with your children, he is no great prize OP because he is honest, he should be honest as should you, you need to sit down with him and tell him you are not prepared to wait 10 years, it just sound ridiculous to me to even make your children an issue.

I am a single parent, well was, and I can assure you I never met one man that even mentioned my kid being an issue, in fact, it was not something that needed mentioned, I came as a package and I never felt I had to be two different people, I'd not change that for any man.

What to do - on what I understand you need to do is set your emotional boundaries. I read that someone here wrote that he should be your friend to have great time but that you should be looking for a long term relationship with someone else. Don't close your mind to others. Would it be ok to say this to the man you see. How will he react when you down grade him from your main focus to a fun time with no hold over you? A big risk perhaps. Close in your mind all thought of a long term relationship. Be ready for him to move on as you get older.

All relationships have complications, OP. Be that childcare, distance, money, difficult in-laws, shift-work, arguments over housework, whatever. But a lot of those things are either a) minor enough to overlook or b) issues that can be compromised on.

You can't compromise when it comes to having children. Your kids will always be there. So you really have two choices. Either you stay the way you are and hope it goes the distance and he might commit once your kids leave home (which could be 15+ years away) or you end it knowing that you had a good time while it lasted.

He doesn't want to be a father figure to your kids. That's his right, of course, but it's always going to be a barrier. Only you know whether you can live with that barrier. If you're happy to live alone with your kids and see this man alternate weekends, that's fine. But it's okay to want more than that.

Only you know which will make you happy.

I know exactly how you feel OP & yes the prospect of never meeting anyone you'd feel as strongly about is scary!!

Do you just end it? I'd say no, not yet anyway. Is there any possibility you could change the dynamic yourself? Position it so thst you won't end up hurt? Make very precise yet discreet changes eg not always driving to him or being available for the glitzy events? Fill your head and spare time with other things? Friends, hobbies. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Try to slowly detach & become less invested in the idea of you/him/the future. Not saying it will be easy. Others may advise ripping off the plaster & ending it abruptly.
(FWIW I doubt he'd be as emotionally available to anyone on a 'full time basis' whether they had DC or not. Something to think about...?)

Adora1 I see your point of view, but I struggle with that concept of being a 'package'. That (apparently) is what his ex used to say to him. I don't feel the same. I'm still my own person; I don't want to be defined by my domestic commitments. That's not to say I don't acknowledge my responsibilities - I will always put the children first (i.e. not relocating) but I view myself as a person who happens to have children. I'm not a package. In many ways, I wish I was - it would be so much easier to say 'take on me and my kids or not at all' - but things just don't feel that black and white for me.
I am aware this is probably my issue in terms of coming to terms with the responsibilities of parenthood, and I agree, it's been exacerbated by this relationship.
God, I am depressed!

Hermione thank you. I wonder if part of me is still unclear about what life looks like once you've separated from your children's dad. At the moment it feels a complete dichotomy - I can't imagine or see how a permanent partner would fit in with my home and the kids - whether it would upset them or how you balance their needs with loving a partner - I can't even imagine having sex with someone with the kids next door - is that ridiculous? When I am with my current chap I love the freedom of it all just to be.. me, I guess. Maybe I see living with someone as having to go back to the 15 years living with someone with depression/anxiety and all the rest of it, not a happy place. And yet when I walk around home and garden stores with current chap I am intensely sad we're not able to plan a home together, that it's just so very unlikely. I have no idea what is going on with me on this front.

Botanic I like your strategy. I have lots of outside interests, all revolving around sports, and my only gripe about my current chap is that he is not as active as me. I need to focus more on this and try and put my emotions in a box, I think, distance myself maybe. But I've always been a heart-on-sleeve kinda girl, and part of me thinks he needs to deal with who I am.

xx

I used the word package OP to highlight the fact that you don't come alone, you never will, your kids will be around you forever hopefully.

I just find it extremely distasteful that a man can actually tell you at this stage (or any really) that he will not consider living under the same roof as you and your kids, you only have them 50% of the time? Why is that such a horrible thought for him - it's quite insulting to you as a person and a parent.

I was very much my own person, I had lots of freedom to go out and I met a fair few men, none of which even mentioned a future that didn't include my children, it was never something I heard from anyone.

Just be careful he is not happy with the current set up because he seems to be benefiting from it a lot more than you appear to be and please don't envy his freedom, having children is a total blessing and joy is it not?

I think you just need to have your radar on at all time for now, neither of you have actually had to go through anything together, it's all parties, sparkles and fun nights out - that's not enough to make a LTR, perhaps in time, he will soften, I don't know, I just see his attitude as a red flag but that's me coming at this as a parent and a very proud one.

But OP, you are a package. You'll always have children. You can't move in/build a life with a man who doesn't want anything to do with your kids

How do you see it working? What if you do move in together and one of your kids has to move back home? Will he move out again? Or kick up a fuss? Let it happen and get resentful because it's "not what he signed up for"?

I just don't understand how you can expect to have a future with someone who doesn't want to commit to your children.

Adora1 I don't always find the children a 'total joy and a blessing', to be honest. It makes me uncomfortable saying that out loud, so please go easy on me. That feeling is also not confined to this situation.

The point is - there are no bases anywhere near me. Living with me would mean he'd have to give up his career, it's that simple. Or I move.

Hermione - he can't ever live with me as his work is not based near me. He'd either need to give up his career, or I'd need to move.

Some more background info is: I'm only living in this part of the country because of ex DP - this is where he and his family are from. My home and family are south. So I am not settled here - and in some ways hope that when/if they go to University I can use the opportunity to move, if not before - I would hate to think I'd be tied to this region for the grandchildren stage!

X-post. You need to decide what's more important to you, then. Setting up a home with someone (which can't really happen with this chap anytime soon) or keeping hold of what you have, while knowing it might never progress to anything more.

I get it must be really difficult. But I can't imagine getting involved with someone who didn't want anything to do with my DC in the first place. I don't have children but my ex did have kids and I would never have dated him if I wasn't prepared to be involved with his children. It wouldn't have been fair on him or them for me to ignore a huge part of his life like that.

Did you not find them a total joy and a blessing when you gave birth? Of course they can be a pain in the backside and we could all throttle them at times but the point is, you are a great person, raising two children to become hopefully great adults who will look after you in your old age - who's going to look after him eh, lol.

He's not making this easy is he, is it wine o clock yet?

Adora1 No, I didn't. I didn't struggle with PND or anything like that, but in some sense becoming a parent made me more determined not to lose my identity - I quickly discovered playgroups and talking about my children was not really my thing.

I don't think that means I love them any less; I certainly hope not - I hope I can be a positive role model for them as being a strong, independent woman who has a career and is fit, healthy and active. They now get involved with the activities I do (sport) and we do things as a family, but yes, I'm afraid they have to fit in with what I want to do more than the other way around.

If it works for you paper you carry on doing what makes you and your family happy.

That's not intended to be a criticism of anyone, by the way - I'm just saying I can't describe my parenting experience as joyous or a blessing. And definitely, pass me the wine!

Do you think you're hankering after a lost youth? It seems a lot to me like this relationship is making you resentful that you too don't have the freedom he has. And if that resentment is being directed towards your children, then you need to stop this relationship right now.

They didn't choose to be born and it's really unfair if this bloke is making you feel like they're a burden you don't want to be saddled with.

Sorry - that was a bit harsh. But if you're finding parenting hard work, I'm not sure it's very helpful to you or your children to spend so much time doing something that makes it feel even more of a slog.

OP, I agree that relationships come in all shapes and sizes when it comes to a persons love life. But the reality is that your children will only ever have one mother whereas you and your boyfriend can go on to find someone else.

What does the future hold with your boyfriend? Who knows and to be honest I don't think it's even worth discussing.

I think the thread you should have running and be devoting time and attention to is - Me And My Children.

Lynda not at all, it's a fair question. And in answer to it, yes, I do find myself envious of his freedom. I didn't have ambition, drive or confidence in my twenties and thirties - now I do - but have commitments which mean I can't pursue the goals I now see.

Not an ideal scenario, but yes, your 'lost youth' comment was quite astute.

he can't ever live with me as his work is not based near me. He'd either need to give up his career, or I'd need to move

As I said, there's plenty of people who commute. The army isn't a terribly family-friendly organisation and so many people leave their families in a settled location and go home at weekends or when they have a spot of leave. And they continue to progress. As I also said, soliders have shorter careers, particarly if they're non-commissioned (which I assume he is due to the apparent advanced age at which he joined), so he'd be likely to be making a post-army plan a lot sooner than you might think. This is a good bit of misdirection on his part because it means you think the notion of him committing to sharing a house with you is completely out of the question without even considering the children issue.

its all about him isnt it......he sees you when its convenient for him....what happens when you want whats convenient for YOU....hes a single bloke enjoying seeing you at his convenience...you are obviously not that important to him if he doesnt want to be part of your life....and your children are part of your life.....i actually started to date a guy once who said 'your child is never going to stop me holding your hand ' (my son was 3 and cried because he wanted to hold my hand instead)....he was dumped instantly !