Dating a man with no kids long distance - he doesn't want the kids to be part of our life together, am I a fool?

[papermoon55]

So,

Have been dating a man for over a year and a half. Am completely in love with him, he makes me laugh, he is kind, attentive, loving, honest, committed, intelligent, emotionally stable, rational, and generally gorgeous. He is also newly in the forces (following career change) and is extremely driven career wise. We met when he was stationed near me for initial training, and is now based 4hrs drive away. We meet up every other weekend, sometimes less frequently, usually halfway (both of us driving 2 hrs) as he owns a house which is roughly in the middle.

I met him as I was coming out of a 15 year relationship with my now ex. We have two DC, 10 and 8. All amicable with the ex and children have coped with separation very well. I have only recently told the DC about this chap as I didn't feel it necessary to mention him - he wasn't likely to become a factor in their life any time soon.

When I am with new chap (do I call him DP?) we have amazing weekends together, doing all the grown-up things you can do without children, living close to London, shows, parties, balls, all very exciting and wonderful.

However, I am finding the distance difficult, finding the concept of us never living together (not for next 10 years anyway) depressing, getting to the point where I want to spend more time with him yet because he has not met the kids we can't. This weekend we finally had the conversation.

Basically he has said he doesn't see his future as a parent to my kids. He's no issue with me having kids, fully understands my commitments, and is happy that I put them first. But in his last relationship he moved in with a woman with two teenage kids, she wanted him home every weekend, he had just got into the forces and didn't want to be tied down, the weekends were focused around the kids, they never had time together, one of the kids had emotional problems, and he was basically very honest that he wanted to date the mum, not the kids.

I am basically ok with this in lots of ways. I am enjoying my independence. I wouldn't move myself/the kids even if it was on offer as my ex is here and they need the relationship with their dad. I love my child-free weekends (have never been particularly maternal) and I am very attracted to him being career-driven and focused - he's a very strong/independent character and if he turned up at my doorstep with a suitcase I'd probably run away.
However, I can't help feeling bothered by the implication that I am trying to 'trap him' in some way, and that meeting the kids would be a slippery slope to weekends of domesticity, him helping run the kids around and generally being involved in family life. That was never on the cards, I'm not offering it, they have a dad, thank you. But the voice inside me is saying that if he really loved me, the kids should be accepted as part of that package.
The other issue is that after wonderful romantic weekends with him, I often find myself feeling sad to come back home and get on with the necessary humdrum business of parenting and working full time. His life in the forces as essentially a single man is just so different to mine, and I will admit I am jealous of his freedom, his ability to focus only on himself and his career. I am a nice little bonus, reasonably fit/attractive, happy to drive 4 hours to be on his arm at posh work and social events, adoring him. But it's not real life and he knows I want more. He has just been very honest about not being able to give it.

What would you do?

Thank you lying. The whole relationship has been an emotional maelstrom TBH. I've pretty much adored him from the start; he's been hit by the emotional force of 15 years loveless incompatible relationship and from the outset I've felt I was into it more than him.

He always argued against that, though.

Xx

A relationship that's out of balance because one loves the other so much more is never going to work unless you accept that imbalance and can live with it. I couldn't but maybe you can?

Only you know what's best for you, papermoon and I think you posted this thread in the hope that others would pick out the positive bits of this man and thereby validate your relationship.

I wondered if there were other things - not so gentlemanly about him - that you didn't post because you didn't want comments on them? I would understand that if it were the case. It's hard to hear criticism of somebody you love.

Face up to the reality and choose to accept it - or not... that's all you really have to do. Only you know what the reality of your situation is.

I'm not sure I can live with it either lying, but to be fair, he's never been anything less than gentlemanly. The issue here is that what's on offer isn't enough for me, and that I'm thrown between emotional highs and lows of seeing/not seeing him, whilst he seems to cope remarkably well. I'm exhausted and also beating myself up for not just relishing what we have, which would be so perfect if I could keep my emotions in a box and live for one in three weekends!

Cross post (definitely do not do what I suggested any time soon)- but that last text sounds like he's had one foot out the door since you got together. You couldn't have played this any way which would have achieved a different result. Please don't feel bad or blame yourself PaperMoon. You'd feel shittier long term keeping quiet and settling for something you're not really happy with than being honest now and saying "I want to know this could be more than two nights out of fourteen".

Oh OP, your last post about him flatly refusing to budge on this - avoiding situations which will make you want more e.g. Walking round a garden centre. That's cold and hard. It puts things in a different light. And you say you have never explained more because you are worried about the rejection

OP you can't even talk to this man. This is idolisation, infatuation, unrequited love.

Leave this man and find someone you can have open, honest conversations with about how you feel and what you want. Because when you find that you'll kick yourself for settling for what you have right now.

7forasecret . Totally agree

OP, there are 10 pages' worth of excellent advice here on this thread. You don't appear to be taking any of it onboard - and I don't think you want to either.

I'm bored now - you're not listening to anyone and you're not learning from anything.

Have some anyway. Maybe one day you'll figure it out.

You want more and he can't give more. I don't think it's about being an alpha male at all. Many alpha males have high flying careers and families.

He is happy as you are. So you can accept that or look for a man who down the line is on the same page as you are.

what's to say this man may not catch up - people read at different speeds - he's been hit by the emotional force of 15 years loveless incompatible relationship - maybe he too wasn't looking for another relationship and his way of avoiding the pain of this was to commit himself to the RAF for 12 years - men don't deal with their issues head on they bury them or find ways of distracting themselves - The whole relationship has been an emotional maelstrom TBH - this too - you've come out of a broken relationship, you've got work kids the distance between you to consider - hes got his emotional baggage - noone is going to be "free" this late on in life - we will all have baggage - its how you chose to deal with it that counts - whats the hurry anyway - 18 months of every 3rd weekend is not the same as 18months of day in day out - why does everyone focus on what is not right in a relationship instead of whats good - as ive said before who knows what the future will bring - something may happen completely out of your control and all of a sudden your circumstances are completely different and you've thrown away 1 good weekend out of 3 - some people don't even have this and they're married!

what's to say this man may not catch up

He may well catch up the question that the op actually needs to ask herself is whether what she has now of 1 weekend in 3 with no promise of any more in the future enough for her. It may be right for some people and it may look fantastic from the outside but if the op is being niggled away with fears and doubts then the chances are that this is wrong for her at this point in time.

From what you're saying it sounds like you're happy with the situation as it is right now so don't change it!

If in the future you're not happy, bring it up then.

What's the point in trying yourself up in theoretical knots that aren't what you want for the moment? He hasn't said he doesn't want to see your kids, or that he wouldn't attend weddings etc in the future, he just doesn't want to be a dad to them. Your kids could get to know him as their mum's partner and in the future maybe you can live together if you both want to when the kids have moved out.

If I split with dh I wouldn't want another man living with me parenting my kids; I'd be happier with your kind of set up.
Sod expectations or ideas, do what makes you happy.

the only certainty is what is happening now - op is ruining her "now" by trying to determine the future - noone can predict this - agree op needs to work out what is right for her - and her "now" was right - too many people think the grass is greener on the other side instead of asking what can i do to keep my own grass green - op if you were happy before these fears and doubts arose you need to try and work out whats driving these - commitment is not necessarily living in the same house and sharing chores - you get this from a flatmate! just because the majority give the same advice it does not mean they are "right"- maybe step back from here and take some time out - ask yourself what makes YOU happy!

OP, Reading with interest. My DP & I work together (4 years) and have dated for a little over 2 years. He has stated he will never live with anyone & their kids again, and probably never with another person including me. He doesn't want to spend time at mine, rarely sees the kids and avoids all social occasions with the family. I too spent a long time going through the emotional roller coaster of concluding we were doomed, meant he wasn't committed to me. Add to this he has never said I love you and has told me he won't either. "What would you prefer; someone who says I love you and treats you crap or someone who doesn't say it and treats you well?" is the only response I got to asking about this gem!

I have eventually relaxed into this unconventional set up and realised that actually it's not want I thought I wanted initially but it is the best relationship ever and makes me happier than I thought possible.

The good points are that he is there for me! I need the car fixing and he does it. It'll be at his place though to avoid the family, I need some decking in my swamp of a garden in my new house. He spent a week doing it; mostly whilst the kids were at their Dad's. He disappears when it's teatime to avoid a sit down with us all. Kids need a wardrobe putting up, he'll do it at the first opportunity they're out. This year we are taking his teenager and my kids away camping as it'll be fun for them and he struggles to take her away on his own.

He is an introvert, hates the noise of family life, the chatter of kids grates on him after a short while. He's stubborn and a it lot set in his ways. He acknowledges it and rather than get irritated by his inability to cope with the normal humdrum of families he'd rather bow out and not have me trying to to balance everyone's needs (in his mind). He does not do family events but will happily pick my adult daughter up from the train station at 3 am should she need it, fix her car, tutor her for an exam etc. He just doesn't want to chat with her but will ask how she is then shut up. LOL.

That is why he is my DP. I can rely on him totally in many ways to help and support me but I know that our lives are very separate in substantial ways too. This year I bought a new house and when I asked him his opinion he said he had none. It was up to me but to let him know when I wanted him to hire the van for him to move me in.

Not sure if this helps you. I love that my kids and him rarely overlap, that my parenting of them is left entirely to my own judgement, that when I stay at his place it's like a having a life without kids, outings, shows, grown up time, (& lots of sex with no kids about). Not sure we will ever live together as like it as is. We still refer to our two nights together as date nights and it is FUN!!!

I've read all of this and feel for you. I was in a long distance relationship, I DIDN'T want to live with anyone and definitely didn't want to marry, I wasn't even looking for a father figure for my 3 DCs. He had a bad time in a previous relationship where the mother had one child so someone with 3 was a bit much! So we saw each other every other fortnight, child free. Then he wanted to meet the DCs which was scary as it was seeing me as a mother rather than his lover. They all got on. A few months later he suggested moving in together, we did. There were some teething problems, he didn't know where his place was.

It hasn't been easy but we're married and beyond happy, the DCs love him and him them.

We were both so adamant in the beginning about not wanting or needing more than we had. It can work but I can't promise you that it will.

You are being blown about by other people's opinions on this thread like a leaf in a gale! People are projecting their own experiences, their own preconceptions about relationships, their own expectations of what love and relationships mean. None of those projections are necessarily relevant to your situation, yet you're believing everyone who makes a convincing case that they're certain you should end it. You've had some great advice in amongst all that, yet you're focusing on the stuff that's making you emotional and upset.

He keeps asking you to tell him what you want. You listed, upthread, a very coherent summary of what you'd like from him - continuing seeing each other roughly the same amount, but him meeting the kids and coming to the odd family gathering, and you buying a flat together that you could let out. Have you told him that? You aren't communicating clearly with him because you haven't been clear about what you want. Stop expecting him to magically know - tell him! Then he can decide whether that would work for him or not, and you can base your decision of whether to end it on something real, rather than hundreds of posts of projection and conjecture on the internet!

Massively over thinking it. This should be FUN! And it was fun until a load of strangers told you to leave a relationship purely because your boyfriend doesn't want to be a stepdad!
Enjoy the great times you have together, life is too short to ditch this guy just enjoy the moment.

But OP wants more and he doesn't.

OP be honest with yourself about what you want.

It's all very well other posters saying, 'It's great! No strings! Have fun! Take it as it comes!'

But what's coming across very clearly from you is that you would like more commitment and stability from this man than he is prepared to give.

All your posts are a mass of contradictions and an exercise in you trying to second-guess yourself out of what you really want.

You say what you want and then in the same breath talk yourself out of it because deep down you know that he won't give it to you.

You're perfectly entitled to say 'I want to be with someone who I can fully share my life with.'

op - I am curious to know where your doubts have come from - have you been talking this out in RL and then come on here for more feedback

I really don't wish to flame you
But I do think you should think about why you feel
"Bewildered, crushed lost, "
When he has delivered on exactly what he told you he would, no confusion, no mixed messages, unless you told yourself he meant something other than what he clearly said.
BenLinus speaks some very wise words, please read them again when you feel strong enough

maybe the guy doesn't know what he wants either - he obviously wanted some "family" set up due to his previous relationship but this ended badly - maybe he is too scared to try this again for fear of getting hurt and so sets his own perimeters. OP maybe some of your feelings of being bewildered crushed lost are left over from the break up of your previous relationship and are being thrown up now for you to finally deal with - you haven't said much about the breakup. There are very few people who speak really honestly from the heart because at the end of the day we are all scared of being hurt and so we all tend to hold something back for self protection - these could be seen as red flags - OP only you will know what is real and i say go with your heart -

I am reading all these replies and thinking about them very seriously, I'm just hesitant to reply as I realise I'm sounding inconsistent and confused. I've had some great advice and, to be honest, I can argue it from several different standpoints.

At the moment, I'm just really confused, and I apologise if that frustrates or bored some. I'd like to see things in the same black and white terms as many people here seem to do, but I'm a person who does look at different perspectives, wears her heart on her sleeve and is feeling vulnerable.

seven last weekend was the first time I directly confronted him about the meeting the kids issue. I wasn't particularly in a rush to do it, it's just I was starting to question the future, I knew he was ambivalent/cagey on the kids issue and in a sense I thought it was best to confront the issue now rather than letting it drag on.
I was previously with a man for 7 years, straight from school and ultimately engaged, I thought he was my soulmate but he held back and got less and less affectionate and didn't seem to want a future so I got rid. Eventually. Ex DP was a summer fling after that relationship, not my type really but stable, supportive, no drama, lots of shared interests. We ticked along ok but we weren't right for eachother but I chose to ignore it as I was so desperate for a family. Don't mind admitting that. As time went on, having a family exacerbated the worst aspects of his personality and he became withdrawn, moody and was treated for anxiety, depression and stress. He used to wake up in the mornings and ask 'what's the point in living' when we had two beautiful DC. He took his moods out on me and the DC and I lived with that for a long time. I paid for a lot of therapy and tried for a long time to see the bright side but ultimately I began to lose myself in his depression and, selfishly, wasn't prepared to risk my own mental health trying to help him.

The conversation we had last night - I felt a bit detached from it, and as he talked it was pretty clear he has a whole load of insecurities and issues from previous relationships. Not suggesting he's broken, just, I can totally see the rationale for being what could be argued as selfish.

The thing that must be jabbing at you papermoon is that you love him and want more. He doesn't want the same as you, whichever way you slice it.

Whether he has reasons or excuses for the way he feels or not, he doesn't feel the same as you. At some point, that realisation will land on you and you'll either be truly ok with it - or lamenting the loss of years of being with somebody so emotionally restricted.

I read a previous poster's account of the same life as you and whilst she was all rah-rah-rah about it, I just felt sad for her. Her post sounded sad in spite of the bolstering it up.

At the end of it all, it will come down to whether you can accept status quo or not? That's it really. He doesn't want what you want and, like one person wanting a child and the other not, it's always the 'declining' partner who 'wins' that argument.

If you are depressed you should see a doctor.