Dating a man with no kids long distance - he doesn't want the kids to be part of our life together, am I a fool?

[papermoon55]

So,

Have been dating a man for over a year and a half. Am completely in love with him, he makes me laugh, he is kind, attentive, loving, honest, committed, intelligent, emotionally stable, rational, and generally gorgeous. He is also newly in the forces (following career change) and is extremely driven career wise. We met when he was stationed near me for initial training, and is now based 4hrs drive away. We meet up every other weekend, sometimes less frequently, usually halfway (both of us driving 2 hrs) as he owns a house which is roughly in the middle.

I met him as I was coming out of a 15 year relationship with my now ex. We have two DC, 10 and 8. All amicable with the ex and children have coped with separation very well. I have only recently told the DC about this chap as I didn't feel it necessary to mention him - he wasn't likely to become a factor in their life any time soon.

When I am with new chap (do I call him DP?) we have amazing weekends together, doing all the grown-up things you can do without children, living close to London, shows, parties, balls, all very exciting and wonderful.

However, I am finding the distance difficult, finding the concept of us never living together (not for next 10 years anyway) depressing, getting to the point where I want to spend more time with him yet because he has not met the kids we can't. This weekend we finally had the conversation.

Basically he has said he doesn't see his future as a parent to my kids. He's no issue with me having kids, fully understands my commitments, and is happy that I put them first. But in his last relationship he moved in with a woman with two teenage kids, she wanted him home every weekend, he had just got into the forces and didn't want to be tied down, the weekends were focused around the kids, they never had time together, one of the kids had emotional problems, and he was basically very honest that he wanted to date the mum, not the kids.

I am basically ok with this in lots of ways. I am enjoying my independence. I wouldn't move myself/the kids even if it was on offer as my ex is here and they need the relationship with their dad. I love my child-free weekends (have never been particularly maternal) and I am very attracted to him being career-driven and focused - he's a very strong/independent character and if he turned up at my doorstep with a suitcase I'd probably run away.
However, I can't help feeling bothered by the implication that I am trying to 'trap him' in some way, and that meeting the kids would be a slippery slope to weekends of domesticity, him helping run the kids around and generally being involved in family life. That was never on the cards, I'm not offering it, they have a dad, thank you. But the voice inside me is saying that if he really loved me, the kids should be accepted as part of that package.
The other issue is that after wonderful romantic weekends with him, I often find myself feeling sad to come back home and get on with the necessary humdrum business of parenting and working full time. His life in the forces as essentially a single man is just so different to mine, and I will admit I am jealous of his freedom, his ability to focus only on himself and his career. I am a nice little bonus, reasonably fit/attractive, happy to drive 4 hours to be on his arm at posh work and social events, adoring him. But it's not real life and he knows I want more. He has just been very honest about not being able to give it.

What would you do?

If you can't meet up when it's convenient for him what does he do? Does he come and see you? Does he get annoyed? I agree with the person who said that in the future when he gets posted further away what would be the plan.

NellyMelly he doesn't get annoyed. He might express disappointment but is generally a very positive person so instead focuses on the next time we can see eachother. Yes, he does come up and see me.

RE posting away - he is not in the army and has a post which is very much UK based. It doesn't mean he won't do an overseas tour, and no doubt he will have the opportunity to travel but it would be unlikely that overseas postings would ever be a regular feature of his career.

Sandy we discussed the kids issue early on and have done subsequently - he is not ruled out having children but doesn't feel compelled to procreate, and is comfortable not having them. We're going on our first overseas holiday together this autumn, staying with his family in fact. xx

So you are getting fully involved with his family but yet he won't do the same back, pretty unequal then and is ok if it's on his terms.

I married the child of this situation. He wanted nothing to do with her children but that was ok because they lived with their father and they were teenagers at the time who weren't really fussed about seeing their mum. He wouldn't come to our wedding not even to support his wife. He wouldn't bring her to come visit her first grandchild when she was born. He wouldn't bring her to her grandchilds baptism. None of these things were a major problem because we lived only an hour away so her son could pick her up or one of his brothers could and even my parents helped out with bringing her to events but then we moved over 200 miles away, then we moved abroad. She only met dc2 once when she was 4 weeks old and she never met dc3 at all. I know he made her happy but it did seriously impact on the relationship she had with her grandchildren because it involved major organisation every time.

Only you know what you want both now and in the future. If you can accept things as they are then enjoy your time with him but if you want to change things then it's time to end the relationship and find someone who can give you want you want.

I have a question to those who think I should dump him because he's not prepared to move in with me and my kids. Not meaning to be provocative, but I really value the discussion and different viewpoints. It's not like he's half an hour away, insisting on his independence and refusing to get involved with family life - he has a career 4 hours away, and one which is likely to involve new postings every few year. Should I be expecting him to give up his career and make the commitment to move in with me, perhaps taking a more average job locally just so we can be together, and if he doesn't offer to do this, then I should view this that he is not committed/taking the relationship seriously/doesn't love me? From a feminist viewpoint, how might we feel if the man we were dating expected that of us, and if we objected, felt we were 'using him' or suspected us of being unfaithful?
If he was just doing a crappy admin job, or a job whereby he could feasibly move (i.e. teacher) then I would be seriously questioning his reticence. But it took him two years to make his career change, he took on a big pay cut and wanted to make a difference in a different sector. Am I being naive to kind of admire him for his determination and focus, and is it wrong that I wouldn't expect him to be rushing to give that all up just yet?

tigermoll numerous posters on this thread have said that this cannot work. Personally I think the OP sounds thoroughly conflicted and not one sure way or the other. I think it's fine to offer alternate view points to the doom and gloom

adora1 he's met my mum, siblings and their families - the only part of my family he hasn't met are my children, and that's in part due to my caution too.

you might have explained but I can't find it - can you move to be with him? Call his bluff and announce plans to move to his area and see how he reacts

NickiFury correct - I am very much welcoming the different opinions. I kind of feel like I could be where you are, and want to be. I'm probably more with you than those who imply that if he's not prepared to give up his career and move in with me by the end of the year we are fundamentally doomed.

NellyMelly I have considered it and the romantic in me wants him to suggest that. But I wouldn't do it for a number of reasons - I have a good job where I am (although it is transferable), but mainly if I did that, I would take the kids away from their father. We share childcare 50/50, he's very hand-on and I think it's unfair to uproot them from their dad, schools and everything they know - especially if the driving force was only a relationship.

Perhaps just enjoy it for what it is then and not expect a future.

However, I am finding the distance difficult, finding the concept of us never living together (not for next 10 years anyway) depressing, getting to the point where I want to spend more time with him yet because he has not met the kids we can't. This weekend we finally had the conversation.

Is this because he will not live with you and your children until they are adults?

If he doesn't want to be involved with a woman with kids then he is only offering you fun nights out now and again - that's fine in the short term but you are right to feel concerned about your future - it's all rather insulting imo esp when you clearly want a future with him but it's ok for your to go on holiday and spend it with his family, he won't afford you the same respect.

papermoon55 to me it's not about him giving up his career and moving in with you but the not being prepared to accept that your dc are going to be involved if the two of you have a long term future whether you move in together in 10 months or 10 years.

RE posting away - he is not in the army and has a post which is very much UK based

But he will still get posted around the UK? So what happens if he gets posted to the other end of the country? Will he ever come and stay at yours on leave? Or will he come and stay local to you in a hotel, and you will slip out when you can/arrange for someone else to have the kids?

You sound like on one hand, you like the fact that it's separate to your home life, (in which case, why change it?) but on the other, like you want it to progress and evolve into him becoming part of your family something he has already made clear he is not willing to make happen. He has told you he did it before and isn't willing to do it again.

You need to decide which one you really want, before you can decide on a course of action.

That's an interesting reply Papermoon55. If the driving force was more than a relationship - in that it was a committed living together situation ,would you move. Kids adapt and your ex would work something out. Things change and situations evolve and for love and happiness all can be arranged.

He's also clearly been hurt in the past; he's not talked extensively about this but he's said enough to make me understand the resulting approach to being independent and focused on himself first for the time being. I I respect that, although I see it could be argued that I am being naive.

Impossible to predict how long that phase will last.

I am not against the idea of romance and fun and yes it's nice to step out of a humdrum routine and enjoy sparks but why have crumbs when you could have a banquet?

he's not prepared to give up his career and move in with me by the end of the year we are fundamentally doomed

No one has said that. People are saying that you seem to be saying you want this to progress into a "proper, full relationship" where he spends time with your children, " However, I am finding the distance difficult, finding the concept of us never living together (not for next 10 years anyway) depressing, getting to the point where I want to spend more time with him yet because he has not met the kids we can't. " but he has made it clear that isn't what he wants, due to his last relationship. Therefore, what you both seem to want is completely at odds and so yes, the relationship is fundamentally doomed.

You want someone to tell you how to be okay with not getting what you want from this relationship.

You can't.

BaronessElla I hadn't really thought of that - maybe that's the next conversation to have. I'm trying to be really objective here and remember the key points he made during the conversation - my sense wasn't that it was an outright rejection of my children, just that he didn't want a relationship where time spent together always featured the children (his ex had the children constantly, I think her ex only had them for a few hours here and there so they never got quality time together without two teenagers, she never drove to be with him, always expected him to 'go home' every weekend, he said it was just a dynamic which didn't work for him.
He also said that although they lived together, he only had a drawer of his stuff, it was very much her house, he never felt like it was his home. He had to fit into her lifestyle, which was focused around the kids routine, they didn't do things together due to her always having the kids, she had little holiday so never got time together. She wanted him to be the disciplinarian father-figure but he worked away, I think he struggled with finding his identity as a surrogate dad and, because that didn't work, he felt rejected and now doesn't want to try that again.
So I think there are deeper issues..

madginger you've made really good points, it's exactly those sort of things I need to confront now, if I continue with it. My head is spinning a bit at the moment! xx

You are not his ex and are not remotely close to her situation, you have 50/50 shared care with your ex so you both will have plenty time to spend together without your kids interfering.

I am sorry OP, it just reads to me like he is putting you in an impossible situation, a LTR with him but he wants fuck all to do with meeting your children, meeting everyone else in your family, and his, that's ok though, again, it's all on his terms.

JellyAnyDots thank you. I think others have said similar - that we both have to get what we want out of the relationship - I can't pretend to be someone I'm not. I need to decide what I want, and what's acceptable. Agh.

Adora1 yup, feel like that plenty of times too! Sometimes it's ok and works for me. Sometimes your post is exactly how I see it.

Conflicted, much?

In years to come you might regret the energy you put into this relationship rather than looking for a relationship that would be a partnership and in daily life. This is your time. Don't waste it

madginger you've made really good points, it's exactly those sort of things I need to confront now, if I continue with it. My head is spinning a bit at the moment! xx

I'm sorry if I'm coming across as harsh, but having grown up in a military family, been surrounded by them, have mil friends and dated mil myself, this is a situation I have seen time, and time again. Lovely ladies being taken for a ride because their blokes say things, promise them things, but know it will never happen. and when they get posted, they can just disappear without a care leaving a heartbroken woman behind, to do it all over again somewhere else

I could be wrong, he could be a genuinely lovely bloke, but there's just too many warning signs in your posts for me.

It's never gonna work.
You're both enjoying "courting"😀
Real life is hard, mundane with difficult choices sometimes they break your heart.
However, he's spelled out his position re: your kids and his (non) role as a parent.
It's a shame he didn't do that sooner he could have saved the heartbreak. But that is the current situation and he won't change.
Your kids need you. He doesn't. I'm sorry.
I would end it.